Tank Discussion: are we, should we, can we, will we?

Should the Lakers tank and rebuild?

Yes, let's tank and rebuild
42
63%
No, don't want to waste a year
24
36%
 
Total votes : 66

Re: Are we Tanking for a future or Not?

Postby The Laker Link on Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:20 pm

therealdeal wrote:
LOSLAKERS wrote:I'm getting the impression that 2014 free agency is what the Lakers are really focusing on

This.

We're not tanking. The Lakers never said they were. They're going to field the best team they can and if that team stinks, they stink. If they're good, then hooray!


Wouldn't it be good though to shoot for 2014 AND get one of these supposed HOF All-Stars that will be picked between 1 and 8.

Sounded like that was a focus too. A focus that seemed pretty good.
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Re: Are we Tanking for a future or Not?

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:24 pm

Try to get the best team possible, with the resources we have, with the people that want to be here and won't cause chemistry problems.

That looks to be the plan. Go to battle with the best we can do + the ability to mesh and elevate each others play = Do as best as possible.

And I'm ok with that given the headache and hole D12 left this offseason.

Whatever happens, happens. But leave that petty drama crap in Houston.
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Re: Are we Tanking for a future or Not?

Postby therealdeal on Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:25 pm

The Laker Link wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
LOSLAKERS wrote:I'm getting the impression that 2014 free agency is what the Lakers are really focusing on

This.

We're not tanking. The Lakers never said they were. They're going to field the best team they can and if that team stinks, they stink. If they're good, then hooray!


Wouldn't it be good though to shoot for 2014 AND get one of these supposed HOF All-Stars that will be picked between 1 and 8.

Sounded like that was a focus too. A focus that seemed pretty good.

If we're that bad, so be it. But with Nash, Gasol, and Kobe on the team it was unlikely that we'd be that bad. We're probably in the mid-late first round pick range already and there wasn't much we could do about that.

This doesn't change it much, but at least the fans are happy about the team we're putting out there.
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Re: Are we Tanking for a future or Not?

Postby The Laker Link on Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:29 pm

Weezy wrote:I can't call what we're doing tanking, and I can't say it's not, we're preparing for the 2014 offseason. We're signing the best players we can with one year minimum deals, but not getting the best players we could if we offered more than one year. Everyone we are signing is on a one year deal, so this is a throw away season, whatever happens, happens and then we start over. If you see us doing really well I think you're being optimistic, I see us fighting to make the playoffs again.


See, with what we're thinking of doing this time next year....I don't want to fight for the playoffs. I want to get a Top 10 pick and mix that guy with LeBron or Melo and Kobe and show him how to do things so we got someone to take over when Kobe retires.

I don't expect us to win a lot either, but with attempting to get like Brand, Nick Young, Odom, Powell, and whoever, it looks like they expect this team to get a lot of wins and I just feel like its a little pointless. Wither way, I'm watching the games to see what happens but I would like to just either see a good team or a bad team and its bugging me how it looks to go back and forth based on names and opinions.
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Re: Are we Tanking for a future or Not?

Postby pound4pound1 on Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:30 pm

karacha wrote:We're not going to tank. With good chemistry and no major injuries, we could be... decent, actually.



an #8 seed the would REALLY give the #1 seed a fight
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Re: Are we Tanking for a future or Not?

Postby LakerFanIam on Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:55 pm

Be Honest... Who here would actually be okay with an entire season of the Lakers tanking?

It's pretty obvious what they're doing... Put together the best 1-year rental team they can & start over in 2014.

If things look completely hopeless come mid season, then they may start trading away expiring contracts for draft pics, etc.
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Re: Are we Tanking for a future or Not?

Postby The Laker Link on Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:45 pm

LakerFanIam wrote:Be Honest... Who here would actually be okay with an entire season of the Lakers tanking?

It's pretty obvious what they're doing... Put together the best 1-year rental team they can & start over in 2014.

If things look completely hopeless come mid season, then they may start trading away expiring contracts for draft pics, etc.


The more picks the better. I guess, just with Dwight gone....now I want us to get Wiggins or Jabari or someone and really start over with some young guys plus some big names with Pau and Kobe getting re-signed.
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Re: Are we Tanking for a future or Not?

Postby TIME on Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:00 pm

We've already got a couple of Tank threads open. I'm going to merge this one with the bigger one and rename it.
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Re: Tank Discussion: are we, should we, can we, will we?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:06 pm

Are we? No.
Should we? No
Can we? Yes
Will we? Hell No
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Re: Tank Discussion: are we, should we, can we, will we?

Postby TIME on Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:21 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:Are we? No.
Should we? No
Can we? Yes
Will we? Hell No


Preach! :soapbox:
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Re: Tank Discussion: are we, should we, can we, will we?

Postby khmrP on Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:23 pm

let that other embarrasement of a franchise tank, the ones in green :man1:
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Re: Tank Discussion: are we, should we, can we, will we?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:35 pm

khmrP wrote:let that other embarrasement of a franchise tank, the ones in green :man1:

for another 20 years at that
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Re: Tank Discussion: are we, should we, can we, will we?

Postby The Laker Link on Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:23 pm

My other reason for wanting to AT LEAST get a good pick in the Top 10 is then we have good combo of youth and skills. Everyone here always says we need to get younger, this draft would be the best time to do it and then ride whoever we get for many years like Kobe.
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Re: Tank Discussion: are we, should we, can we, will we?

Postby The Rock on Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:30 pm

Just look at the roster and the free agents we're considering....no notable defensive players, our only reliable 2 way player is coming off a big injury, rest of the roster cant play a lick of D or reliable on offense for long stretches. We're easily one of the worst defensive teams in the league, as currently constructed. Fun names and good sentiments but tank written all over it
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Re: Are we Tanking for a future or Not?

Postby jellyroll49 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:00 am

therealdeal wrote:
The Laker Link wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
LOSLAKERS wrote:I'm getting the impression that 2014 free agency is what the Lakers are really focusing on

This.

We're not tanking. The Lakers never said they were. They're going to field the best team they can and if that team stinks, they stink. If they're good, then hooray!


Wouldn't it be good though to shoot for 2014 AND get one of these supposed HOF All-Stars that will be picked between 1 and 8.

Sounded like that was a focus too. A focus that seemed pretty good.

If we're that bad, so be it. But with Nash, Gasol, and Kobe on the team it was unlikely that we'd be that bad. We're probably in the mid-late first round pick range already and there wasn't much we could do about that.

This doesn't change it much, but at least the fans are happy about the team we're putting out there.


Would you really be happy with a middling team thats not good enough to win anything but not bad enough to land a potential all star in the draft? I understand the plan is to sign 1 or 2 max players next summer but theres no reason we should be putting all our eggs in one basket and not get the best possible young talent at a cost effective rate. I understand that it goes against everything for this franchise to tank but if we can move pau and nash at the deadline for picks, i dont see why we shouldn't. With a top 5 pick, one max player and Kobe, we'd be good enough to contend if we can put together complementing role players with it. We went all in last year and we missed. We can't go all in on next summer and miss. We need a backup plan. We need to get younger.
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Re: Are we Tanking for a future or Not?

Postby therealdeal on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:16 am

jellyroll49 wrote:Would you really be happy with a middling team thats not good enough to win anything but not bad enough to land a potential all star in the draft? I understand the plan is to sign 1 or 2 max players next summer but theres no reason we should be putting all our eggs in one basket and not get the best possible young talent at a cost effective rate. I understand that it goes against everything for this franchise to tank but if we can move pau and nash at the deadline for picks, i dont see why we shouldn't. With a top 5 pick, one max player and Kobe, we'd be good enough to contend if we can put together complementing role players with it. We went all in last year and we missed. We can't go all in on next summer and miss. We need a backup plan. We need to get younger.

Okay, I'm going number off my reasons why I disagree. I've recently thought it might be insulting to some, but it's not I promise. It's just how I organize my thoughts. :beer:

1. Do you really think we're going to get a pick from one of those bottom feeding teams like Utah for Gasol and/or Nash? They have no reason to give us a pick for older guys. Especially Gasol. Gasol's value comes from being an expiring which is mostly only useful to rebuilding teams looking to dump salary. Those teams aren't going to want to give up a good pick because, well, they're rebuilding. Nash after his last season might be worth a couple of second round picks, but no one is going to give us a first round pick from a deep draft for an old, often injured Nash.

2. Do I personally think we'd be better off tanking? Yeah, maybe. But again, this team isn't going to be great any way. The expectations for this team have to be somewhere in the .500 range? That'd be good for missing the playoffs and maybe just out of the lottery, but a decent pick. And if they make the playoffs, well, we'll have a good time watching them because they'll be a group of guys we like and can cheer for.

3. This team with Gasol and Nash and Kobe wasn't going to be among the worst in the league. They won't be worse than Utah. They won't be worse than Toronto, Detroit, probably Charlotte, maybe Minnesota, Phoenix, maybe Portland, maybe New Orleans, Boston, Philadelphia, probably the Mavericks, Bucks, Hawks, Magic, probably Wizards... See what I'm saying? Since we can't/won't move Gasol, Nash, and Kobe we were ALREADY going to be out of the lottery. We might as well put together a team that we like and hope for the best.

4. This season is a win-win honestly at this point. They'll spend the year rebuilding the Laker brand after having Howard do something no one else has done. They'll spend time reminding people of why the Lakers are a destination to be desired. And as this happens the team might do well because chemistry is really going to click for this team. And they might do poorly because no one in their right mind would expect Kobe, Nash, Gasol, Kaman, Blake, and Hill not to miss SOME time and those are the most important pieces on our team.

If we're bad, great. We get a solid pick in the draft and go get some free agents. If we're good, great! We have fun watching a team succeed who loves being Lakers and we go get some free agents.
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Re: Are we Tanking for a future or Not?

Postby jellyroll49 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:48 pm

therealdeal wrote:
jellyroll49 wrote:Would you really be happy with a middling team thats not good enough to win anything but not bad enough to land a potential all star in the draft? I understand the plan is to sign 1 or 2 max players next summer but theres no reason we should be putting all our eggs in one basket and not get the best possible young talent at a cost effective rate. I understand that it goes against everything for this franchise to tank but if we can move pau and nash at the deadline for picks, i dont see why we shouldn't. With a top 5 pick, one max player and Kobe, we'd be good enough to contend if we can put together complementing role players with it. We went all in last year and we missed. We can't go all in on next summer and miss. We need a backup plan. We need to get younger.

Okay, I'm going number off my reasons why I disagree. I've recently thought it might be insulting to some, but it's not I promise. It's just how I organize my thoughts. :beer:

1. Do you really think we're going to get a pick from one of those bottom feeding teams like Utah for Gasol and/or Nash? They have no reason to give us a pick for older guys. Especially Gasol. Gasol's value comes from being an expiring which is mostly only useful to rebuilding teams looking to dump salary. Those teams aren't going to want to give up a good pick because, well, they're rebuilding. Nash after his last season might be worth a couple of second round picks, but no one is going to give us a first round pick from a deep draft for an old, often injured Nash.

2. Do I personally think we'd be better off tanking? Yeah, maybe. But again, this team isn't going to be great any way. The expectations for this team have to be somewhere in the .500 range? That'd be good for missing the playoffs and maybe just out of the lottery, but a decent pick. And if they make the playoffs, well, we'll have a good time watching them because they'll be a group of guys we like and can cheer for.

3. This team with Gasol and Nash and Kobe wasn't going to be among the worst in the league. They won't be worse than Utah. They won't be worse than Toronto, Detroit, probably Charlotte, maybe Minnesota, Phoenix, maybe Portland, maybe New Orleans, Boston, Philadelphia, probably the Mavericks, Bucks, Hawks, Magic, probably Wizards... See what I'm saying? Since we can't/won't move Gasol, Nash, and Kobe we were ALREADY going to be out of the lottery. We might as well put together a team that we like and hope for the best.

4. This season is a win-win honestly at this point. They'll spend the year rebuilding the Laker brand after having Howard do something no one else has done. They'll spend time reminding people of why the Lakers are a destination to be desired. And as this happens the team might do well because chemistry is really going to click for this team. And they might do poorly because no one in their right mind would expect Kobe, Nash, Gasol, Kaman, Blake, and Hill not to miss SOME time and those are the most important pieces on our team.

If we're bad, great. We get a solid pick in the draft and go get some free agents. If we're good, great! We have fun watching a team succeed who loves being Lakers and we go get some free agents.


I agree that with Nash, Gasol and Kobe, we're probably a 35-42 win team and would be at the bottom of the lottery. I also agree that we wouldn't be able to move gasol and nash for high lottery picks but i do think they could be moved to fringe contenders looking for a rental. Nash may be harder to move but I can see Nets, bulls, Timberwolves, Knicks among others who would take Gasol for expiring contracts and a mid-late first rounder. We should be in the mode the rockets were the last couple years, where we look to acquire as many assets as possible while using what we have. Let's not forget that we would still have to fill out the roster if we are able to get 2 max players and getting as many young guys in a deep draft would work towards that while being cost effective.

I understand that, on paper, were not bad enough to flat out tank, but if we move nash and gasol for picks and expiring deals at the deadline, we'll naturally tank. It would be a tough pill to swallow for kobe but if we were able to get 2 or 3 impact players in the draft while signing 2 max guys or 1 max and 2 solid role players, i think we would put him in position for a 2 year window while setting us up to move on after him. I just don't like the prevailing thinking around here, where were pretty much a fringe playoff team, not getting a top 7 pick and putting all our money on the free agent class. Maybe if i was as convinced that we would land Lebron or melo i would be on board but I'm just not sure that we are. Lebron is not going to leave miami barring a unexpectedly bad season and i'm not convnced melo is more than a 50-50 to leave home. I'm interested in Lowry and Gay, but those are hardly max guys.

I would be ecstatic if we could have #10 and #20 in next years draft. I get that from a pride standpoint, it would be hard for all of us to deal with, especially Kobe, but its honestly the best possible thing we could do. As opposed to the worst possible thing, which is playing the season out as is and being stuck in Bucks/Jazz/Blazers territory.
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Re: Tank Discussion: are we, should we, can we, will we?

Postby therealdeal on Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:09 pm

I just honestly think you're romanticizing what we could get from Nash and from Gasol. We wouldn't get ANY picks from those two. Not in this draft. Especially when you consider that other teams KNOW the Lakers are up against the wall.

Why trade for Gasol when the Lakers might just amnesty him and then you can pick him up on the cheap? See what I'm saying? There's no leverage for LA at the moment.

The Lakers are fine the way they're at right now honestly. You go into the off-season with no one on the books (stretch Nash) and with only ONE pick holding cap space, you have somewhere around 55 million free to spend. The more picks and young players you have, the more money you have tied up in people who aren't impact players instead of having the available room first and then filling in role players around them.

The Lakers are playing it the best way they can.

And by the way, the only way I see this plan changing at this point is if the Lakers could get a young dynamic player for Pau at the deadline. A Love or a Rondo. Otherwise, we're full steam ahead for the summer of 2014.
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Re: Tank Discussion: are we, should we, can we, will we?

Postby jellyroll49 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:34 pm

Even though we couldn't amnesty Gasol anymore, we don't have any leverage at the moment, but I think your seriously underselling what we could get for him at the deadline. In no universe do I expect a lottery bound team to trade a first rounder for Gasol, but a playoff team would. It's not so crazy to imagine a team giving up a late first rounder for him if they felt they were close to a title. Shoot, we traded 2 first rounders for steve nash last year thinking we would contend. I'm honestly not expecting them to get that sort of deal or even shop him at the deadline, but shoot down the idea like it's unfathomable is crazy.

I however, do not believe we are fine the way we are and should we end the year with the same principle pieces. Nothing about a fringe playoff team sounds fine to me. You, and a lot of people around here, seem to be so sure that we are going to land either Lebron or Melo if not both, that your refusing to consider the value of youth on a roster that would be assuredly just as old as the one we have now if we fill the roster with vet. minimum guys. As i said before, if we can get an extra pick in the first for Pau while keeping the space, I don't see why we wouldn't. Theres absolutely no argument against adding young talent with upside as oppose to just signing vet. minimum guys, who you pretty much know who they are as a player. I disagree we couldn't get a impact role player in the bottom of the first, but even if they're not, theres no reason why we can't have develop young talent on the bench.

Holding onto Pau would only mean we'd be stuck in limbo and that's the worst possible place we could be.Wether or not we will is a different story, but to deny the possibility and the good it might do to move in that direction is down right stubborn. It would also be pretty damn risky to just assume the avengers will assemble in LA next year and have no back-up plan. I'm sure hoping Mitch does his due diligence and considers all his option when constructing next years roster.
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Re: Tank Discussion: are we, should we, can we, will we?

Postby The Laker Link on Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:19 pm

I was excited with the Nick Young signing, then we cut Artest, still feeling like we'll get 30 wins. Maybe more, maybe less. Guess this will all come down to Kobe's timetable.
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Re: Tank Discussion: are we, should we, can we, will we?

Postby therealdeal on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:19 pm

I am far from convinced we'll get Carmelo and/or LeBron. I think there's a good chance we get one of them, but I'm not counting on it or anything.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
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Re: Tank Discussion: are we, should we, can we, will we?

Postby Finwë on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:53 pm

The Rock wrote:Just look at the roster and the free agents we're considering....no notable defensive players, our only reliable 2 way player is coming off a big injury, rest of the roster cant play a lick of D or reliable on offense for long stretches. We're easily one of the worst defensive teams in the league, as currently constructed. Fun names and good sentiments but tank written all over it

I agree mostly. I don't know if it's intentional tanking, but I don't think we're doing anything to avoid missing the playoffs.
Our biggest problem was DEFENSE, and we still haven't improved it at all (not to mention we lost our best defensive player). With the teams in the west improving, I think it's very likely that we miss the playoffs, as constructed.
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Re: Tank Discussion: are we, should we, can we, will we?

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:10 am

We don't tank intentionally... We are the Lakers! Now with 20 games remaining and it's impossible to get into the play-offs...We rest our big guns. :man1:
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Re: Tank Discussion: are we, should we, can we, will we?

Postby BDG on Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:57 am

Dunno if this has been posted yet but ...

IF we do tank ... Bill Simmons wrote up a pretty good plan:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9466869/lakers

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Re: Tank Discussion: are we, should we, can we, will we?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:25 am

He's a entertaining writer ... too bad he's a Celtprick fan ...

Is it accurate next season draft going to be THAT strong ? (don't follow College ball)
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