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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Azndude2190 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:34 pm

It's a weird feeling, i'm looking forward to May, when the lottery is announced.

As for the standings, I have feeling by the end of the month we'll be competing with Utah for the worst team out West. From there, I can see a few teams in the East getting better, maybe Cleveland and Brooklyn with Deron Williams coming back.
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Barnstable on Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:49 pm

I don't like relying on chance. I don't like to chance we get in the lottery with a horrible record and still get the 15th pick or something similar.
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:32 pm

It depends on whether Silver has a lottery agenda his first year. I hope he doesn't share Stern's dislike of the Lakers.
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby LooN3y on Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:06 pm

I dont want to tank, just for the fact that we are the lakers.

we have class, and we dont go dig ourselves in a deeper hole and lose on purpose just for some picks.


we thrive to do better and play our hearts out.

its like if your life was heading down hill and you say to yourself, screw it i give up on life, im gonna do crack cocaine. (lol probably not the best analogy, but you get what i mean, we should have some class and finish out playing hard and trying to improve, rather than give up and be hopeless)
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Vasashi17 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:22 pm

To answer the thread title, seems like our FO wants to tank....or let me rephrase that...they don't mind if it comes with the territory. If they were trying to trade for Hedo and now Drew, only to waive them, then dumping salary is the only thing they're interested in doing...and if get a few more ping pong balls as a result, then so be it.

One year minimum deals, amnestying Metta, allowing our TPEs to expire, ridding ourselves of guaranteed 1st round contracts (only thing keeping us from sending our 2014 1st rounder out is that the trade rules forbid it) and now looking to dump Pau's salary.

But then what about Kobe's extension? Seems like they needed something to "sell" to the fans. Without Kobe, fans probably start dropping the Lakers like ESPN and TNT. Funny consequence about Kobe's extension...it gives management a built in excuse not to spend because it limits their cap space.

Gotta axk yourselves, why is management trying to trade Pau for a player that they intend to waive, instead of just letting Pau's contract simply come off the books this summer?
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Barnstable on Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:29 pm

^I don't think the front office wants to tank. They just see we are injury riddled and we will lose anyway, so why not get some assets since we can't make the playoffs with the shell of a team we have after all these injuries. It's more of a reaction than a decisions IMO. The injuries are tanking us, not the FO.

Gotta axk yourselves, why is management trying to trade Pau for a player that they intend to waive, instead of just letting Pau's contract simply come off the books this summer?


To avoid the repeater tax? Since the team is going nowhere fast, might as well not pay extra for nothing.
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby karacha on Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:33 pm

Yes, except that Kobe is unable to play and should spend some time recovering. And Kobe, for all his greatness, is not exactly in his prime. It's not enough to offer that to the fans. But a true plan to rebuild after one year of sucking certainly is. I hope that's what they are doing and they have a clear plan & vision for the next two years.

Off topic (but sort of on-topic now :man1: ): Last night, I had this horrible dream of Lakers being forced to "fuse" with the Clippers for some reason. And they were required to come up with the list of players that they were going to let go, and those that will stay with the new team. They only had to offer Kobe, Young, Hill and Henry to join the Clippers. Others were let go. Weird, huh? That's what it has come to for me as a fan. Dreaming about the Lakers basically becoming the Clippers. :man10: :man10:
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Azndude2190 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:37 pm

The answer to the thread question is actually:

No you're not the only one that wants to tank. But people are afraid of being judged by other Laker fans, so very few are outright saying it and are providing more nuanced answers that allow them to be on both sides of the fence.
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Helljumper on Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:40 pm

Azndude2190 wrote:The answer to the thread question is actually:

No you're not the only one that wants to tank. But people are afraid of being judged by other Laker fans, so very few are outright saying it and are providing more nuanced answers that allow them to be on both sides of the fence.


:man10: So true.
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Vasashi17 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:40 pm

Barns: Lakers trading for Drew or Hedo and keeping them gets them to the tax apron. Waiving Shawn Williams safely takes them under and makes them a non-tax payer.

Difference between Pau's contract and Drew/Hedo's = 7M
Lakers are at 79M in cap with the apron set at about 72M
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Savory Griddles on Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:45 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:But then what about Kobe's extension? Seems like they needed something to "sell" to the fans. Without Kobe, fans probably start dropping the Lakers like ESPN and TNT. Funny consequence about Kobe's extension...it gives management a built in excuse not to spend because it limits their cap space.


The above statement is what worries me and worries me A LOT. The Kobe signing was a business decision, pure and simple. No one in their right mind would look at that deal and grade it a good or even average basketball decision. Not when no one was going to pay Kobe more than 12-15 million as a 36 year old. I too have pondered the whole built-in excuse thing where they now have a team that is almost halfway to the cap with Kobe and a stretch provisioned Nash. If they go after Melo this offseason, I will KNOW they are just trying to sell out the arena and make it to the first round, MAYBE second round with some extreme luck, and then count the cash. I just get this creepy image of Jim Buss rolling around in bed with piles of money like in Indecent Proposal.

Jim Buss had a swing for the fences moment fall into his lap with Nash and Dwight last offseason, so he went for it. He got burned. Is he going to be gun shy now? The Kobe contract scares me, not because of the next two years essentially being flushed down the toilet, but because it was a total business move, not a basketball one.
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Toklat on Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:36 pm

We should be developing our young players and winning every game we can. At the same time we try and put ourselves in the best position financially for the next season. Mitch and the front office have made mostly good decisions. Injuries and circumstances change and they have adjusted. Howard left, thankfully, and Mitch got a bunch of young talent. The team was playing good until injuries brought us down. Now management has to adjust again. With the players we have MD will try to win as many games as he can. No we should not tank and I don't believe we will. Tanking builds negativity and a losing mentality.
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:17 am

Ok I just went through the last twenty drafts in Wikipedia :man10:

I think everybody should take a look at "lottery picks" it certainly is disheartening to see how many in the top 5 are busts in each draft.

Wow. That's why I like our talent poaching style through the years. We get only reliable and tested guys.


Conclusion: Tanking are for losers like the Clippers
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:42 am

^^^^ 2014 is going to be the best draft since 2003 ... don't get the reason of your post
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Chillbongo on Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:00 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:^^^^ 2014 is going to be the best draft since 2003 ... don't get the reason of your post

I think what he's trying to say is that a high number of lottery picks (he referred to 1-5) end up being busts. Therefore, since 2014 is such a deep draft, there is no need to necesarily tank. Tanking moves are meant for nba scum like the clippers, who frequently get lottery picks.
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:06 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:^^^^ 2014 is going to be the best draft since 2003 ... don't get the reason of your post

This is the reason, using your so-called best draft. Top 15. 4 great players if we will be generous in including Bosh. 4 out of 15. We might get the next Lebron if the balls bounce our way but most likely it will mean Pietrus :man10: considering the other teams are making it their mission and they are better than us in tanking.

1 1 LeBron James* SF
1 2 Darko Miličić C
1 3 Carmelo Anthony* SF
1 4 Chris Bosh* F/C
1 5 Dwyane Wade* SG
1 6 Chris Kaman+ C
1 7 Kirk Hinrich PG
1 8 T. J. Ford PG PG
1 9 Michael Sweetney PF
1 10 Jarvis Hayes F/G
1 11 Mickaël Piétrus G/F
1 12 Nick Collison PF
1 13 Marcus Banks PG
1 14 Luke Ridnour PG
1 15 Reece Gaines F/G

Disheartening I know.
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby LakerFan1235 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:55 am

karacha wrote:Off topic (but sort of on-topic now :man1: ): Last night, I had this horrible dream of Lakers being forced to "fuse" with the Clippers for some reason. And they were required to come up with the list of players that they were going to let go, and those that will stay with the new team. They only had to offer Kobe, Young, Hill and Henry to join the Clippers. Others were let go. Weird, huh? That's what it has come to for me as a fan. Dreaming about the Lakers basically becoming the Clippers. :man10: :man10:

sounds more like a nightmare man :man10:
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Every time I begin to wonder...He proves it...That is why I won't lose hope in him.
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Kingsama on Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:16 am

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:
wcsoldier81 wrote:^^^^ 2014 is going to be the best draft since 2003 ... don't get the reason of your post

This is the reason, using your so-called best draft. Top 15. 4 great players if we will be generous in including Bosh. 4 out of 15. We might get the next Lebron if the balls bounce our way but most likely it will mean Pietrus :man10: considering the other teams are making it their mission and they are better than us in tanking.

1 1 LeBron James* SF
1 2 Darko Miličić C
1 3 Carmelo Anthony* SF
1 4 Chris Bosh* F/C
1 5 Dwyane Wade* SG
1 6 Chris Kaman+ C
1 7 Kirk Hinrich PG
1 8 T. J. Ford PG PG
1 9 Michael Sweetney PF
1 10 Jarvis Hayes F/G
1 11 Mickaël Piétrus G/F
1 12 Nick Collison PF
1 13 Marcus Banks PG
1 14 Luke Ridnour PG
1 15 Reece Gaines F/G

Disheartening I know.


And that's the simple reality of the draft. Even the "hands down most talented player in the draft" aren't guaranteed to pan out. Look at Marvin Williams who was being hailed as the next grant hill out of the draft as an example.
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:06 am

Yep... and you should see the other succeeding drafts' lottery picks after 2003. It makes you want to cry.
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:10 am

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:
wcsoldier81 wrote:^^^^ 2014 is going to be the best draft since 2003 ... don't get the reason of your post

This is the reason, using your so-called best draft. Top 15. 4 great players if we will be generous in including Bosh. 4 out of 15. We might get the next Lebron if the balls bounce our way but most likely it will mean Pietrus :man10: considering the other teams are making it their mission and they are better than us in tanking.

1 1 LeBron James* SF
1 2 Darko Miličić C
1 3 Carmelo Anthony* SF
1 4 Chris Bosh* F/C
1 5 Dwyane Wade* SG
1 6 Chris Kaman+ C
1 7 Kirk Hinrich PG
1 8 T. J. Ford PG PG
1 9 Michael Sweetney PF
1 10 Jarvis Hayes F/G
1 11 Mickaël Piétrus G/F
1 12 Nick Collison PF
1 13 Marcus Banks PG
1 14 Luke Ridnour PG
1 15 Reece Gaines F/G

Disheartening I know.


So you want the 1st 15 picks to become All Stars ?

You act like great players are plenty in the league

This draft featured a top 10 player of all time , a top 5 SG of all time and a top 5 PF in the league for some time ..

Nobody says it will be a guarantee to acquire a great player ... but hey I'll take a shot at it over another meaningless 1st round playoffs exit .
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:16 am

Meaningless...

This franchise has missed the playoffs something like 5 times in it's history and now the playoffs are meaningless. This argument for tanking has always had the hiccup of forgetting exactly how useless tanking is. Teams spend their entire tenure in the NBA tanking. Charlotte. Orlando. Milwaukee. Teams that have only either never had a great player oronly ever had one once or twice in their franchise and they've been professional tankers forever.

Building through the draft takes an incredible amount of luck, an incredible amount of losing, and an incredible amount of lost opportunity. This is the Lakers. We're not going to tank on purpose, especially when there's so many teams already doing a better job at it than us.

We're going to stink this season. We'll likely get a lottery pick. That lottery pick will likely be a bust on a guaranteed contract. That's how it goes for every team in the NBA.

And all time greats in the draft months before they're drafted? :man10: Yikes. People say that every season. Patience is a virtue.
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:38 am

^^^^ These teams aren't the Lakers and don't play in LA ... which is still a huge advantage .

One pick isn't building through the draft ... this player could be an asset to get value in trade or to attract big FAs if he's a good one ...

The players drafted by the Logo were one of the reasons Shaq came to LA ... do you think he would have signed here if we had scrubs instead of the Van Exel , Jones ?

Kobe ? Oh another drafted player

Gasol ? Acquired for a player we drafted and 2 1st round picks ...

Sure , screw the draft !

Currently we have no assets and young talents ... you think the Rondo , Love or KD's of this world may come here just because it's LA ? LOL

And yes , a 1st round appearance for the Lakers is meaningless B-Ball wise
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:48 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:
KareemTheGreat33 wrote:
wcsoldier81 wrote:^^^^ 2014 is going to be the best draft since 2003 ... don't get the reason of your post

This is the reason, using your so-called best draft. Top 15. 4 great players if we will be generous in including Bosh. 4 out of 15. We might get the next Lebron if the balls bounce our way but most likely it will mean Pietrus :man10: considering the other teams are making it their mission and they are better than us in tanking.

1 1 LeBron James* SF
1 2 Darko Miličić C
1 3 Carmelo Anthony* SF
1 4 Chris Bosh* F/C
1 5 Dwyane Wade* SG
1 6 Chris Kaman+ C
1 7 Kirk Hinrich PG
1 8 T. J. Ford PG PG
1 9 Michael Sweetney PF
1 10 Jarvis Hayes F/G
1 11 Mickaël Piétrus G/F
1 12 Nick Collison PF
1 13 Marcus Banks PG
1 14 Luke Ridnour PG
1 15 Reece Gaines F/G

Disheartening I know.


So you want the 1st 15 picks to become All Stars ?

You act like great players are plenty in the league

This draft featured a top 10 player of all time , a top 5 SG of all time and a top 5 PF in the league for some time ..

Nobody says it will be a guarantee to acquire a great player ... but hey I'll take a shot at it over another meaningless 1st round playoffs exit .


That's what Sterling probably said until Stern extended a helping hand. I'm sorry.. 1st round exit is not meaningless if you historically don't miss the playoffs. What other team can say that.

You want to lose to get what? another Henry, Johnson or Marshall? As you can see we have some recent lottery picks. Some like our new point guard just spent 1 year on the team that drafted him. you want to tank for that?
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:01 am

Oh I guess I'm in the minority which only cares about titles and surpassing Boston then ..

10 years from now : " Boston has more titles than us , we didn't miss the playoffs though " GTFO

Sure , Jabari ceiling seems to be Xavier Henry :man10:

I guess nobody should have tanked in 2003 because Lebron was just another Kwame in the making ...
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Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:22 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:^^^^ These teams aren't the Lakers and don't play in LA ... which is still a huge advantage .

Yes because we have money and we have draw. But guess what? Those two things mean diddly in the draft. What's our advantage of being Los Angeles in the draft? How has that helped the Clippers through the years.

wcsoldier81 wrote:One pick isn't building through the draft ... this player could be an asset to get value in trade or to attract big FAs if he's a good one ...

Or it's far, far more likely that it's a bust that we're attached to for 4 years. The statistics are all there for you to see! Even in the top 5 there's players that just don't pan out.

It doesn't even matter because we're going to be in the lottery this season anyway, but the idea that we should actively tank is a bad one. It's stupid and proven to fail.
wcsoldier81 wrote:The players drafted by the Logo were one of the reasons Shaq came to LA ... do you think he would have signed here if we had scrubs instead of the Van Exel , Jones ?

Shaq came to LA because he wanted to be famous, he wanted to play fun basketball, and he was insulted by Orlando's refusal to offer him the amount of money that he deserved. There were a dozen reasons Shaq wanted to come to LA. Van Exel and Jones were alright, but is that really the route you want to take this?

Do you realize the Lakers went from 1991 to 2000 before they made it to the Finals, let alone winning a title which was from 1988 to 2000.

Oh and by the way Van Exel was a 2nd Round Pick. :man10:

wcsoldier81 wrote:Kobe ? Oh another drafted player

Trade.
wcsoldier81 wrote:Gasol ? Acquired for a player we drafted and 2 1st round picks ...
And a massive expiring which was the main reason for the trade.
wcsoldier81 wrote:Sure , screw the draft !
Excellent argument because that's what we're saying.

No it's not and that's not what we're saying. We're saying TANKING is a bad idea. Very different. Don't give in to hyperbole, it weakens your argument.
wcsoldier81 wrote:Currently we have no assets and young talents ... you think the Rondo , Love or KD's of this world may come here just because it's LA ? LOL

"LOL" just another great tool for the great debaters of the world. No it's not, it's a clear sign of a terrible argument and a terrible stance.

We have no young talent. Just Nick Young, Jordan Farmar, Jordan Hill, Xavier Henry, Jodie Meeks, and Wesley Johnson. The average age of which is something like 24 or so.

And how the hell do you use this line:
wcsoldier81 wrote: These teams aren't the Lakers and don't play in LA ... which is still a huge advantage .

Followed by this
wcsoldier81 wrote:you think the Rondo , Love or KD's of this world may come here just because it's LA ? LOL

IN THE SAME DAMN POST!?! :man10:

Wow.
wcsoldier81 wrote:And yes , a 1st round appearance for the Lakers is meaningless B-Ball wise

No it means we aren't stuck paying a larger contract for a lottery pick that's only 2 spots higher than a mid-first round pick because we made the playoffs.
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