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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby LAKEROC on Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:59 pm

Exum is so articulate as an 18 year old. He also seems to ahve great confidence in his abilites, and comes off like someone who wants the attention. He just seems very special to me as a player. Say we get in the top 5, is there anything Pelinka can do to force his way here?
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby trodgers on Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:58 pm

LakerFanIam wrote:
trodgers wrote:How about by Win Share?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2013.html


What's important about this: if you're not picking #1, your chances of getting an impact player don't vary very much in the top 2-5 vs. 6-10. That is...if you think Win Shares matters.


Nice find T... Interesting breakdown... & win shares is a very important stat. A lot of these top picks are going to bad teams, so it's not the complete picture, but good stuff... Thanks

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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:59 pm

Screw the draft!

These guys will go undrafted and it seems like they're already running the Pringle offense...so who really needs another training camp?

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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Chillbongo on Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:13 pm

LMAO.

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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:16 pm

Over/under 250 takes to make that video?
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:30 pm

This is what everyone wants right?

Players laying down, not showing any fight, losing by 50. Show everyone on national TV that our philosophy on winning is a joke, our coach is a joke, the roster is a joke.

Anyone see Lebron wanting to leave South Beach for here? Hell Melo is better off in NYK right now.

Take on a loser's mentality and superstars are going to start treating the team that way. How many superstars are going to teams wishing for losses?
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Center Court on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:33 pm

Doc Brown wrote:This is what everyone wants right?

Players laying down, not showing any fight, losing by 50. Show everyone on national TV that our philosophy on winning is a joke, our coach is a joke, the roster is a joke.

Anyone see Lebron wanting to leave South Beach for here? Hell Melo is better off in NYK right now.

Take on a loser's mentality and superstars are going to start treating the team that way. How many superstars are going to teams wishing for losses?



Yes. Everybody who wants to see us net a top pick likes this loss. This is what we've been waiting for and it feels so right.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Manve77 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:35 am

-Who do we sign?
-Who wants to sign with us after 2013-14? :bang: :bang: :bang:
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby TheOp on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:37 am

Doc Brown wrote:This is what everyone wants right?

Players laying down, not showing any fight, losing by 50. Show everyone on national TV that our philosophy on winning is a joke, our coach is a joke, the roster is a joke.

Anyone see Lebron wanting to leave South Beach for here? Hell Melo is better off in NYK right now.

Take on a loser's mentality and superstars are going to start treating the team that way. How many superstars are going to teams wishing for losses?



When we get one of Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid, Jabari Parker, or Dante Exum, youll be singing a different tune next season.

If it means enduring one season of turmoil for a brand new roster and new start to this franchise, so be it. Besides the Clippers are gonna win anything this season anyway. Let them have their one moment of glory. Even if were 2nd place in LA, neither is winning a championship. If youre not first youre last.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:35 am

TheOp wrote:
When we get one of Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid, Jabari Parker, or Dante Exum, youll be singing a different tune next season.


No, no I won't.

Cavs - 4 Top 5 draft picks since 2011............Playoff appearances since 2011 = 0
Kings - 5 Top 7 draft picks since 2009...........Playoff appearances since 2009 = 0
Bobcats - 4 Top 10 draft picks since 2008.......Playoff appearances since 2008 = 1
Wizards - 4 Top 6 draft picks since 2010........Playoff appearances since 2010 = 0
Pistons - 4 Top 9 draft picks since 2010.........Playoff appearances since 2010 = 0
TWolves - 5 Top 6 draft picks since 2008.......Playoff appearances since 2008 = 0

I'll change my tune when we make the playoffs and get back to a championship level.

It's funny that you think the top 4 players in the draft are all going to come in and be difference makers their first season.

This one might make you :bang: again, but you should really try looking at draft history and not your belief that this draft is loaded with 4 players that will make people change their tune next season that will be drafted 1-4.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:16 am

:man6: I cry when people think building thru the draft will make us contenders. It's FA signings and good trades, which will make us champs not unproven rookies.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:33 am

Doc Brown wrote:This is what everyone wants right?

Players laying down, not showing any fight, losing by 50. Show everyone on national TV that our philosophy on winning is a joke, our coach is a joke, the roster is a joke.

Anyone see Lebron wanting to leave South Beach for here? Hell Melo is better off in NYK right now.

Take on a loser's mentality and superstars are going to start treating the team that way. How many superstars are going to teams wishing for losses?


Even Marv Albert said it ... " you need to have the right people to attract these kind of players" ... if there is no foundation , why would the Lebron, Love , KD , Rondo come here ?

A lot of fans here think " because it's LA and the Lakers" ... I disagree , sure it's a great advantage but still not sufficient on its own.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Savory Griddles on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:10 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:This is what everyone wants right?

Players laying down, not showing any fight, losing by 50. Show everyone on national TV that our philosophy on winning is a joke, our coach is a joke, the roster is a joke.

Anyone see Lebron wanting to leave South Beach for here? Hell Melo is better off in NYK right now.

Take on a loser's mentality and superstars are going to start treating the team that way. How many superstars are going to teams wishing for losses?


Even Marv Albert said it ... " you need to have the right people to attract these kind of players" ... if there is no foundation , why would the Lebron, Love , KD , Rondo come here ?

A lot of fans here think " because it's LA and the Lakers" ... I disagree , sure it's a great advantage but still not sufficient on its own.


Exactly. And our foundation is currently a 36 year old taking up 2/5ths of our cap, a coach that doesn't believe in the fundamental basketball that has worked for decades and the silver spooned son of a legendary owner who has made multiple bad decisions.Honestly, there are 30 teams in the NBA. We don't have Phil or Kobe anymore to always give us that punchers chance. We are at square one and in a worse position than the teams like the 76ers since our only draft pick is this season.

Our financial advantages are nil with the new CBA. Durant and others are proving that with today's multimedia capabilities, you can grow your brand anywhere. I know its bad right now, but I honestly think the days of the Lakers being able to rebuild/reload like they used to are over, the new CBA being the chief reason. Get ready to be "just another franchise" for maybe the rest of our lives.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby therealdeal on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:48 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:This is what everyone wants right?

Players laying down, not showing any fight, losing by 50. Show everyone on national TV that our philosophy on winning is a joke, our coach is a joke, the roster is a joke.

Anyone see Lebron wanting to leave South Beach for here? Hell Melo is better off in NYK right now.

Take on a loser's mentality and superstars are going to start treating the team that way. How many superstars are going to teams wishing for losses?


Even Marv Albert said it ... " you need to have the right people to attract these kind of players" ... if there is no foundation , why would the Lebron, Love , KD , Rondo come here ?

A lot of fans here think " because it's LA and the Lakers" ... I disagree , sure it's a great advantage but still not sufficient on its own.

Our name as the "Lakers" only lasts as long as someone is here to carry that load. If we don't have a star player, the name "Lakers" doesn't mean a damn thing.

ESPECIALLY if we're fielding losers who don't want to play hard against a good team. I saw a lot of bull**** from our team last night. Anyone who WANTS to see what this team did last night makes me sick.

It's one thing to lose. It's another to be embarrassed. We're almost lucky Nash is returning this summer so that we're not faced with the ability to sign people, but we don't sign anyone because no one wants to join a dumpster fire. Better to just not have the choice of rejection right now. This franchise can't get any lower.

All you tanking junkies better hope Exum, Wiggins, Parker, or Embiid can save this franchise. You better hope that one player is going to be enough to make Durant or Kyrie want to come. Because right now there's no reason why Love would want to be Laker. There's no reason why Carmelo would want to come here.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby abeer3 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:18 am

trodgers wrote:How about by Win Share?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2013.html


What's important about this: if you're not picking #1, your chances of getting an impact player don't vary very much in the top 2-5 vs. 6-10. That is...if you think Win Shares matters.


the link took me just to 2013; i don't know how wise it is to extrapolate from a notoriously weak draft.

i've seen a fair amount of numbers on productivity by draft position:

http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

i think the data support a general tier system, such that the concerns that people have about the lakers picking 8th instead of 4th are completely legitimate.

i also object to the strawman argument that everyone thinks a high pick is going to impact next year. it almost certainly won't, no matter who it is (maybe parker might?). the point is that you should have a MUCH better asset picking at 4 than 8.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:26 am

I knew we were a good drafting team but 3rd? Suns I'm not surprised, and Bucks being number 1 is mind-boggling, I guess they just can't hold on to their guys.

http://www.82games.com/bestdraftingteams.htm
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:32 am

I think Embiid may have the most immediate impact defensively. It'll take time for him to adjust to the NBA level conditioning and physicality and offenses, but his combination of size, speed, and wingspan is pretty rare.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Center Court on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:34 am

therealdeal wrote:
wcsoldier81 wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:This is what everyone wants right?

Players laying down, not showing any fight, losing by 50. Show everyone on national TV that our philosophy on winning is a joke, our coach is a joke, the roster is a joke.

Anyone see Lebron wanting to leave South Beach for here? Hell Melo is better off in NYK right now.

Take on a loser's mentality and superstars are going to start treating the team that way. How many superstars are going to teams wishing for losses?


Even Marv Albert said it ... " you need to have the right people to attract these kind of players" ... if there is no foundation , why would the Lebron, Love , KD , Rondo come here ?

A lot of fans here think " because it's LA and the Lakers" ... I disagree , sure it's a great advantage but still not sufficient on its own.

Our name as the "Lakers" only lasts as long as someone is here to carry that load. If we don't have a star player, the name "Lakers" doesn't mean a damn thing.

ESPECIALLY if we're fielding losers who don't want to play hard against a good team. I saw a lot of bull**** from our team last night. Anyone who WANTS to see what this team did last night makes me sick.

It's one thing to lose. It's another to be embarrassed. We're almost lucky Nash is returning this summer so that we're not faced with the ability to sign people, but we don't sign anyone because no one wants to join a dumpster fire. Better to just not have the choice of rejection right now. This franchise can't get any lower.

All you tanking junkies better hope Exum, Wiggins, Parker, or Embiid can save this franchise. You better hope that one player is going to be enough to make Durant or Kyrie want to come. Because right now there's no reason why Love would want to be Laker. There's no reason why Carmelo would want to come here.


The hope is that yes one of those guys will end up like Blake Griffin, James, Harden, Kyrie, Westbrook, Anthony Davis, or Kevin Love. None of whom were greatly touted #1's LeBron/Shaq/Duncan.

Until the lotto, we don't even know where we pick. Unless we get the first pick, we're not going to know who is available to select from. What we do know is that more losses = higher odds and in turn the better player pool to choose from. That's the basic premise of us "tanking junkies". Would I have rather see us slide into the playoffs like we did last season even if it meant a first round sweep? Yes. But that went out the window months ago.

An ancillary benefit to this losing, it's making MDA look weak. Exposing him. And if the losing alone helps send him packing then I for one see that as a win.

Nobody wants to see us lose by 50. That is disgusting.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby therealdeal on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:41 am

Re- Last night's loss.
Center Court wrote:Nobody wants to see us lose by 50. That is disgusting.

Re- Last night's loss.
Center Court wrote:Yes. Everybody who wants to see us net a top pick likes this loss. This is what we've been waiting for and it feels so right.


Did your opinion change in the last 11 hours and 7 minutes?
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:52 am

Laker fan 2 stages of loss this season

Anger
and then Acceptance :man10:
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby lotus on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:52 am

Don't panic everyone, this is all a part of jimmy's plan. Just let it play out.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Center Court on Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:32 am

therealdeal wrote:Re- Last night's loss.
Center Court wrote:Nobody wants to see us lose by 50. That is disgusting.

Re- Last night's loss.
Center Court wrote:Yes. Everybody who wants to see us net a top pick likes this loss. This is what we've been waiting for and it feels so right.


Did your opinion change in the last 11 hours and 7 minutes?


Look at you Nancy Drew. Nice detective work. But too bad you couldn't read the sarcasm in the first post. First post was 100% sarcastic at the knee jerk reaction by Doc Brown asking if we "pro-tankers" finally got what wanted.

Your analytic skills were off on that one sir but props on the time you put in researching the matter.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby trodgers on Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:42 am

abeer3 wrote:
trodgers wrote:How about by Win Share?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2013.html


What's important about this: if you're not picking #1, your chances of getting an impact player don't vary very much in the top 2-5 vs. 6-10. That is...if you think Win Shares matters.


the link took me just to 2013; i don't know how wise it is to extrapolate from a notoriously weak draft.

i've seen a fair amount of numbers on productivity by draft position:

http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

i think the data support a general tier system, such that the concerns that people have about the lakers picking 8th instead of 4th are completely legitimate.

i also object to the strawman argument that everyone thinks a high pick is going to impact next year. it almost certainly won't, no matter who it is (maybe parker might?). the point is that you should have a MUCH better asset picking at 4 than 8.

Hit "previous" up top on that page; you can scroll through years. I included five years of data in my post.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:46 am

Doc -- yes, those Wizards, Cavs, Kings etc. teams have had many picks and not a ton to show for it. But "draft history" does have its gems too. This is supposed to be one of the better drafts - despite what the Logo says.

Look what Lebron did for the Cavs.

What Wade did for Miami.

What Durant did for Seattle, er huh, Ok City.

Even look at Kyrie and the Unibrow. And Love. We would take any of those 3 right now as parts to try to build around. Paul George is another example of what can happen to build around. So there are good stories to tell too. Making the playoffs doesn't always answer the question, as some franchises are just run too poorly to ever really rebound absent a tremendous superstar like Bron, Durant, or Wade, or just can't get another star to come.

We will have a clean slate, essentially, except for Kobe and Nash. So if Wiggins, Embid, or Smart for example, can be a legit star in the shorter term, that is worth a 1-year tank job that btw happens to coincide with us having to get out of the repeater tax penalties. And there may be franchise-type players within our reach. Because of the tax, we had to re-load this year anyway. Good timing with a potentially solid lottery pick to grab too.

The Lakers are not choosing to build through the draft, but they are taking advantage of an unavoidable re-load year, given Dwight's departure and Kobe's injuries. It is win-win by lose lose.

So I disagree that some level of tanking (call it "evaluation of young players" period) is not worth it, at least for this draft. But I do agree that we need to maintain some level of respectability in terms of home court successive losses and 50-point blowouts.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby therealdeal on Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:12 pm

Center Court wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Re- Last night's loss.
Center Court wrote:Nobody wants to see us lose by 50. That is disgusting.

Re- Last night's loss.
Center Court wrote:Yes. Everybody who wants to see us net a top pick likes this loss. This is what we've been waiting for and it feels so right.


Did your opinion change in the last 11 hours and 7 minutes?


Look at you Nancy Drew. Nice detective work. But too bad you couldn't read the sarcasm in the first post. First post was 100% sarcastic at the knee jerk reaction by Doc Brown asking if we "pro-tankers" finally got what wanted.

Your analytic skills were off on that one sir but props on the time you put in researching the matter.

You must be the most clever person in your high school.

I didn't need any analytical work to find two posts made within 12 hours of each other. What you describe as sarcasm fits almost perfectly along the line that you've been touting for the last few pages now. Namely that every loss is more important, and to you more enjoyable, than every win. Sarcasm usually doesn't skate exactly along the lines of your opinion. Not successful sarcasm anyway.

And if it was sarcastic, then what was the purpose of that post? To draw Doc into a response against your "sarcasm"? Sounds a lot like you said something inflammatory to get a response. Much like your response to me insinuating that I'm a) a little girl and b) not smart enough to realize some point you're attempting to make.

So what is it?
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