The Lakers Are Clearly The Best Team In The West

therealdeal wrote:

lotus wrote:Actually, I think OKC is better off with that trade, so I'm not so sure they will be worse than last year.

How in the world could you think that OKC is better off with that trade for this season?

Easily. Martin is a quality shooting guard that has as diverse skills as Darden. He can carry the scoring duties when durant is on the bench. He can score as easily too.

Darden is fine if you fast break and leave him open for 3's, but Martin can create a greater variety of scoring opportunies. Let's see how harden does without durant and westbrook to distract the defense.

Also, Lamb is a good prospect who is probably as good as.any young player on the lakers. And they get picks.

lotus wrote:

therealdeal wrote:

lotus wrote:Actually, I think OKC is better off with that trade, so I'm not so sure they will be worse than last year.

How in the world could you think that OKC is better off with that trade for this season?

Easily. Martin is a quality shooting guard that has as diverse skills as Darden. He can carry the scoring duties when durant is on the bench. He can score as easily too.

Darden is fine if you fast break and leave him open for 3's, but Martin can create a greater variety of scoring opportunies. Let's see how harden does without durant and westbrook to distract the defense.

Also, Lamb is a good prospect who is probably as good as.any young player on the lakers. And they get picks.

Well, this explains it. I thought for sure there was no way he could be talking about James Harden.

We all knew our biggest obstacle was going to be Oklahoma City this season, not the Heat, not only because of how well they match up with us, but Harden was the game changer with the scoring punch off the bench and ability to lead their second unit. The Thunder basically swerved here and gave us enough space to pass them. Now the question is, will the Lakers fall asleep at the wheel and let this moment pass? We don't know yet, though we hope that answer is "no." Bottom line, this year is ours to lose, but I just got WAY more confident in the Laker's chances this year.

Hey guys, the poster formally known as MC ......... long story short, had to re-create a new account because my email account tied to this site got hacked..........


Not sure about clearly better than everyone in the West, I'm sure there are a couple of teams that want LA to prove that to them before just handing us the West, heck one of those teams play their home games in the same building. On paper it certainly seems like it but it honestly wouldn't surprise me if we are a year away based on the drastic personnel changes and system changes going on this year. Like others have mentioned as well, the coaching on this team leaves little to be desired IMO........ there might be enough talent and veteran know how to overcome Brown but that certainly isn't a given, especially this year after so much flux.

The Harden trade might have weakened the Thunder but they did get enough pieces to stay more than competitive for the Western crown...... I think it was a smart move personally, they want to be relevant for the long hall, not just the short term....... if they draft well or package well with those picks that trade will look like gold IMO.

Cool story bro.

You know, I've been a fan of the football Rams for a long time because they were the LA Rams. I remember they were a favorite to go back to the superbowl in 2002. They cruised through the preseason, lost every game saying they weren't worried. They're just bored and can't wait till the season starts. Well, they started that season 0-5 and missed out on the playoffs.

Now the Lakers are 0 for the preseason and people are saying don't worry, no big deal, they're just on cruise control till the real games start. All I can say is, you play like you practice and these were practice games. I hope thats all it is. That the players take it more seriously and goes out and plays like they're supposed to.

I think with the Harden trade the Lakers are clearly the team to beat in the west. But they may have to go through growing pains before things start jelling. Much like Miami did at first.

So sad to hear so called Lakers fans bash Our Team Just we didnt win any glorified practice games 1 Nash isn handicapped He is in Great Shape Yeah Kobe is injured but its a sore ankle for crying out loud whil Metta has 1 bad pre season game and everyone says He is incosistant again when He is in the Best Shape of His Like & dwight is Fine So Seriously people grow up We Have a Great Team So stop getting On Their Back

^^^ How can you tell people to grow up when you wrote a paragraph without periods?

Doc Brown wrote:^^^ How can you tell people to grow up when you wrote a paragraph without periods?

Just Proving My Point Thanks for that

lotus wrote:Easily. Martin is a quality shooting guard that has as diverse skills as Darden. He can carry the scoring duties when durant is on the bench. He can score as easily too.

Martin is a good SG, but he does NONE of the things that Harden can do as well as Harden can do them.

Just looking at basic statistics, Harden averaged more rebounds (4.1) than Martin (2.7), more assists (3.7) than Martin (2.8), with a better assist to turnover ratio (1.68) than Martin (1.55), more steals (1.0) than Martin (0.7), and more blocks (0.2) than Martin (0.1).

Martin scored more (17.1) than Harden (16.8), but he took more than 3 more shots a game to get that extra 0.3 points. Martin shot only 41.3% from the field while Harden shot 49.1%. Martin shot only 34.7% from deep while Harden shot 39%.

Looking deeper, Harden's shot selection is much different and very important to the team concept. Harden's aggressiveness off the bench created foul opportunities on opposing bigs. This let Westbrook and Durant do their thing with less fear of being challenged inside.

Harden took a third of his shots at the rim last season (281/843). Martin took 10.9% of his shots at the rim last season (57/537). Now they both took a lot of jump shots. Harden took 555 while Martin took 471. But the 555 shots Harden took amounted to 65.8% of his shots. Martin's 471 was a whopping 87.7% of his shots. He almost never took a shot that wasn't a jumper last season.

Then there's 4th quarter and OT scoring. Clutch factor. Harden was one of OKC's must clutch performers because he could score in the 4th quarter early and give Durant and Westbrook an edge. He was able to keep other teams at bay while those guys rested. His FG% in the first 3 quarters was 44.5%, 48.3%, and 40.2% respectively. In the 4th quarter his FG% sky rockets to 51.8% and 66.7% in overtime. Martin on the other hand averages below 40% in the 2nd half and overtime.

Lastly, there's age, defense, and athleticism. James Harden just turned 23 in August. Kevin Martin will turn 30 next February. Kevin Martin has missed more than 25 games in 4 of his 8 seasons and 10 or more games in 6 of his 8 his seasons. He's missed more than 30 games twice. Harden in his short 3 year career as missed a total of 10 games. Harden is far more durable than Martin has ever been.

Part of what made OKC tick was that Harden fit in with their speed and leaping ability. Martin has neither of those things. Harden frequently defended Kobe Bryant and did a good job at it. Over the course of Martin's career he's matched up against Kobe 17 times in the regular season. Kobe has won 11 of those games averaging 31.2 points, 7.2 assists, 5.9 rebounds, and 1.7 steals shooting 48.3% from the field and 34.1% from deep. Kobe has matched up against Harden 10 times in the regular season and won 6 of those games. Kobe averaged 25 points, 5.1 assists, 5.8 rebounds, and 1.5 steals shooting 41% from the field and 26.7% from deep.

lotus wrote:Darden is fine if you fast break and leave him open for 3's, but Martin can create a greater variety of scoring opportunies. Let's see how harden does without durant and westbrook to distract the defense.

Actually Martin doesn't take a great variety of shots. Like I said most of his shots were jump shots. He's very efficient from 16 feet to the three point line, but outside of that small area he's not very efficient at all. And the vast majority of his shots come from that spot. Harden doesn't take a lot of shots from 3-16 feet, but he gets to the basket WAY more. His variety may be lacking, but his effectiveness sure isn't.

Let's see how Martin does when he's asked to carry this team off the bench.

lotus wrote:Also, Lamb is a good prospect who is probably as good as.any young player on the lakers. And they get picks.

That's great, but those things won't come into play this season when they're facing the Lakers in the playoffs. Unless of course Lamb takes some MASSIVE steps during the season and outplays Martin. But that's a slim chance.

lakersStan24 wrote:

Doc Brown wrote:^^^ How can you tell people to grow up when you wrote a paragraph without periods?

Just Proving My Point Thanks for that

Paragraphs are your friend. Also, punctuation. Similarly, There Is No Need To Write Like This.

let's just put it this way

i have a scary feeling about this season for 2 reasons. mike brown and the bench. and if at least one of these things doesn't change for the better, this team isn't winning a title. aside from jamison (who had an atrocious preseason) and meeks, there is no bench. blake, duhon, and morris? it's just pathetic. and dont even get me started on mike brown. last time i checked, teams who win titles have REAL coaches and mike brown is not a real coach

lakersStan24 wrote:So sad to hear so called Lakers fans bash Our Team Just we didnt win any glorified practice games 1 Nash isn handicapped He is in Great Shape Yeah Kobe is injured but its a sore ankle for crying out loud whil Metta has 1 bad pre season game and everyone says He is incosistant again when He is in the Best Shape of His Like & dwight is Fine So Seriously people grow up We Have a Great Team So stop getting On Their Back

Oh, the irony.

on paper we are.

this team has plenty of work to do, but i know i won't have to doubt the efforts of guys like kobe, dwight, artest, nash, etc. it's a veteran group that will take the journey and progress of this team seriously.

432J wrote:let's just put it this way

i have a scary feeling about this season for 2 reasons. mike brown and the bench. and if at least one of these things doesn't change for the better, this team isn't winning a title. aside from jamison (who had an atrocious preseason) and meeks, there is no bench. blake, duhon, and morris? it's just pathetic. and dont even get me started on mike brown. last time i checked, teams who win titles have REAL coaches and mike brown is not a real coach

Well Miami won with a bad coach last year so that doesn't matter what Matters is What Players Do that is what it comes down too

After watching the Lakers enough during the pre-season I am starting to think John Hollinger might be right. He had us as a 51 win team, I felt we would be a 55 win team or better. But it doesn't look like we're going to be a great RS at all, they just look so raw out there and it's going to take a long time to get it together. I still think they will finish as the 3rd or 4th seed, but they will dominate in the playoffs and have a showdown with the Heat.

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:After watching the Lakers enough during the pre-season I am starting to think John Hollinger might be right. He had us as a 51 win team, I felt we would be a 55 win team or better. But it doesn't look like we're going to be a great RS at all, they just look so raw out there and it's going to take a long time to get it together. I still think they will finish as the 3rd or 4th seed, but they will dominate in the playoffs and have a showdown with the Heat.

The Lakers NEVER look good during the pre-season yet every single season essentially they were always one of the best teams in the league. To think a team with as much talent as this one won't win more than 51 games is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Chemistry is one of the most overrated things in sports. It ain't like these guys don't get along or anything like that. They all do, they're like brothers basically.

This team fits so well together especially Nash and Kobe. They will be fine. It'll take a few games at most before they look like a dominate team. I just don't understand why so many people put so much stock in a bunch of meaningless exhibition games. Not only do they not mean nothing, but we also have alot of veterans on the team like Kobe, Nash, Jamison, Pau, and World Peace. Why in the world we these guys go all out and try to win some meaningless pre-season games and risk injuries? Doesn't make any sense at all. These guys are clearly in cruise control and rightfully so.

The Lakers will win at least 60 games this season. No doubt in my mind.

432J wrote:let's just put it this way

i have a scary feeling about this season for 2 reasons. mike brown and the bench. and if at least one of these things doesn't change for the better, this team isn't winning a title. aside from jamison (who had an atrocious preseason) and meeks, there is no bench. blake, duhon, and morris? it's just pathetic. and dont even get me started on mike brown. last time i checked, teams who win titles have REAL coaches and mike brown is not a real coach

1. All you did was name the backup PG rotation. Our bench outside of that is very much solid. Meeks, Ebanks, Jamison, Hill, and even Sacre are all NBA level players and capable bench contributors. Far, far from pathetic. Our bench last season was far, far, worse. Our starters were worse. We've upgraded at every position off and on our bench. We have every bit the chance to win a ring this season as Miami or Oklahoma City.

2. The Heat won last season with Spoelstra as their head coach. There's no significant reason to think that Mike Brown is a lot worse than Spoelstra.

The amount of doom in here is laughable. Not just you, but in general. So many posts in here sound exactly like the kind of posts we make fun of on other sites.

Rooscooter wrote:

fksteveblake wrote:let's let the season start before crowning ourselves the conference champs

Yeah..... How about let's get within 15 points in a game first.......

The 0 - 8 pre-season did wonders for me especially knowing Potato is managing the rotations and that likely means the poor bench performance so far will never be maximized or improve much.

432J wrote:let's just put it this way

i have a scary feeling about this season for 2 reasons. mike brown and the bench. and if at least one of these things doesn't change for the better, this team isn't winning a title. aside from jamison (who had an atrocious preseason) and meeks, there is no bench. blake, duhon, and morris? it's just pathetic. and dont even get me started on mike brown. last time i checked, teams who win titles have REAL coaches and mike brown is not a real coach

We knew we wouldn't have a strong bench outside of Jamison and Meeks coming into this season so i don't know why people are starting to panic now. Our starter's salaries (mainly kobe and gasol) restrict us as to the amount we can pay for support players, but our starters are our strongest point right now. Bench play is obviously important but to say that we won't win the championship THIS EARLY in the season without playing any regular season games is silly.

432J wrote:let's just put it this way

i have a scary feeling about this season for 2 reasons. mike brown and the bench. and if at least one of these things doesn't change for the better, this team isn't winning a title. aside from jamison (who had an atrocious preseason) and meeks, there is no bench. blake, duhon, and morris? it's just pathetic. and dont even get me started on mike brown. last time i checked, teams who win titles have REAL coaches and mike brown is not a real coach

Let's put it this way you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Our bench is far from horrible. Jamison is still a guy who can get you close to 20 points a night. Meeks is a very good spot up shooter, and Hill is a good rebounder and defender and also a good clean up guy around. The jury is still out on Devin Ebanks and Blake obviously is terrible, but every team has a weak spot and the backup point guard position is it for us. Overall we have a good, solid bench and much better than last season when they were horrendous.

As for Mike Brown he's no worse than Eric Spoelstra was last season when Miami won the championship. For a guy who gets trashed as much as he does he has a solid résumé. Coached a medioce Cleveland team that won the Eastern Conference in 2007. In 2009 and 2010 Brown coached a Cavs team that had the best record in the league an won 60 plus games back to back seasons. Sure he hasn't been able to win a championship just yet, but when has he ever had the talent to do so? Not until this season.

^^^ You keep talking about his Cleveland teams? Any Cleveland fan will tell you Mike Brown didn't do jack s*** for those teams. He was holding the poms poms, while the "mediocre" team took care of business. Pop took him to the cleaners in the finals.

Doc Brown wrote:^^^ You keep talking about his Cleveland teams? Any Cleveland fan will tell you Mike Brown didn't do jack s*** for those teams. He was holding the poms poms, while the "mediocre" team took care of business. Pop took him to the cleaners in the finals.

Yes because Pop had a much better team. You keep saying he didn't do jack for the Cavs yet at the end of the day that team did much better with Brown there than they did before he got there and obviously after he was fired. Bottom line is as the head coach of the Cavaliers he coached what was a mediocre basketball team and made the one of the best in the league year in year out. They were always in the think of things despite a lack of top level talent.

therealdeal wrote:

432J wrote:let's just put it this way

i have a scary feeling about this season for 2 reasons. mike brown and the bench. and if at least one of these things doesn't change for the better, this team isn't winning a title. aside from jamison (who had an atrocious preseason) and meeks, there is no bench. blake, duhon, and morris? it's just pathetic. and dont even get me started on mike brown. last time i checked, teams who win titles have REAL coaches and mike brown is not a real coach

1. All you did was name the backup PG rotation. Our bench outside of that is very much solid. Meeks, Ebanks, Jamison, Hill, and even Sacre are all NBA level players and capable bench contributors. Far, far from pathetic. Our bench last season was far, far, worse. Our starters were worse. We've upgraded at every position off and on our bench. We have every bit the chance to win a ring this season as Miami or Oklahoma City.

2. The Heat won last season with Spoelstra as their head coach. There's no significant reason to think that Mike Brown is a lot worse than Spoelstra.

The amount of doom in here is laughable. Not just you, but in general. So many posts in here sound exactly like the kind of posts we make fun of on other sites.

did you seriously just say that sacre is an nba level player and a capable bench contributor?

im sorry sir but i laughed at that part and you lost me there. hill, meeks, and jamison upgraded the bench but beyond that there is no one that can keep the lead while the starters rest. ebanks still needs to prove tons and the rest of the bench is a joke. and this is assuming that jamison steps up his game because if the preseason gave us a glimpse of how he's gonna perform this year, it's not looking too good

i always see the comparison between spoelstra and brown, the point is that neither are great coaches but unless brown can get his rotations straight and play guys at the positions where they can actually make a difference, he's just about as useful as a cardboard cutout of himself. i expect the starters to get used to the offense and gel after about 20 games or so, and obviously this team is a contender but we're just gonna have to see some results

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:

Doc Brown wrote:^^^ You keep talking about his Cleveland teams? Any Cleveland fan will tell you Mike Brown didn't do jack s*** for those teams. He was holding the poms poms, while the "mediocre" team took care of business. Pop took him to the cleaners in the finals.

Yes because Pop had a much better team. You keep saying he didn't do jack for the Cavs yet at the end of the day that team did much better with Brown there than they did before he got there and obviously after he was fired. Bottom line is as the head coach of the Cavaliers he coached what was a mediocre basketball team and made the one of the best in the league year in year out. They were always in the think of things despite a lack of top level talent.

Look at the Cavs teams before Brown started coaching and after he started coaching. There's a big difference between the teams, Brown didn't have the same team as Silas, the roster vastly improved as soon as Brown got hired. Not to mention Lebron was a rookie then. And after he was fired? Dude Lebron went to Miami right after Brown was fired. What kind of a claim is that?

I'll just post my response to you I gave you a long time ago when you made these claims....

Anything that team did or accomplished wasn't due to him. I got to see the Mike Brown tenure up close and personal. He didn't do anything magical to make the team better. He has had the same flaws all 6 years he was a head coach....

Over reliance on star player (Kobe/Bynum....Lebron)
Simple offensive sets, all iso. (Lebron did everything for that team....Kobe tried to do everything for this team)
Loves veteran PG's to the detriment of the team (Eric Snow....Steve Blake)
Horrible rotations
Get's severely outcoached by any above average coach in the league.
Never shows any fire, wants to be one of the guys, rather than the head coach.

He's not going to magically adjust this offseason and be the coach we want him to be. He's still the same flawed coach as he is in Cleveland. He hasn't gotten better, in some aspects he's gotten worse since his coaching stint in Cleveland.

All my friends that are Cavs fans, laughed their a**** off when Brown got hired here and told me to have fun with that, you will hate the guy before the halfway point of the season.

Brown had a good record in Cleveland because the Eastern Conference was a joke for awhile now.....

2005/2006 - 4 teams made playoffs with ~.500 record...one with a losing record.
2006/2007- 3 teams made playoffs with ~.500 record....one with a losing record.
2007/2008 - 3 teams made playoffs with ~.500 record....one with losing record. (8 games below 500)
2008/2009 - 4 teams made playoffs with ~.500 record....one with losing record.
2009/2010 - 1 team made playoffs with ~.500 record.

That record looks better than it is because Brown was coaching in a conference that had teams making the playoffs that could barely win 50% of their games. On top of that they played those teams 3 to 4 times a year. He got bounced 3 out 5 times in the playoffs in the 2nd round and let's not forget the butt whooping Pop laid on him in the Finals. That was embarrassing.

Only one team overachieve in his tenure the 2006-2007 team. They went to the Finals. Every other team actually underachieved in the playoffs as they were all hype in the regular season.

He needs a championship roster to be a championship caliber head coach? You can say that about every coach.The fact of the matter is, he has never cut it as a head coach and this offseason shouldn't give people confidence that he can change now. I've seen enough of him since 2005 to have zero confidence in him this offseason to make the necessary changes/adjustments.

.500 Wizards, .500 Nets, 50-win Pistons without Ben Wallace and with an injured Chauncey Billups, Swept. Infact, that was the only 50-win team that Mike Brown had defeated in the playoffs in Cleveland, 2005-10.

And they didn't have talent.....

Lebron / Mo Williams / Delonte / Gibson / Big Z / Varejao / Ben Wallace / Hickson / Parker / Shaq / Gooden / Joe Smith / Shannon Brown / Jamison / Danny Green / Damon Jones / Eric Snow

Those are the players Mike Brown was dealt during his time there. Yea he didn't have talent to win.