The Lakers Are Clearly The Best Team In The West

432J wrote:

therealdeal wrote:

432J wrote:let's just put it this way

i have a scary feeling about this season for 2 reasons. mike brown and the bench. and if at least one of these things doesn't change for the better, this team isn't winning a title. aside from jamison (who had an atrocious preseason) and meeks, there is no bench. blake, duhon, and morris? it's just pathetic. and dont even get me started on mike brown. last time i checked, teams who win titles have REAL coaches and mike brown is not a real coach

1. All you did was name the backup PG rotation. Our bench outside of that is very much solid. Meeks, Ebanks, Jamison, Hill, and even Sacre are all NBA level players and capable bench contributors. Far, far from pathetic. Our bench last season was far, far, worse. Our starters were worse. We've upgraded at every position off and on our bench. We have every bit the chance to win a ring this season as Miami or Oklahoma City.

2. The Heat won last season with Spoelstra as their head coach. There's no significant reason to think that Mike Brown is a lot worse than Spoelstra.

The amount of doom in here is laughable. Not just you, but in general. So many posts in here sound exactly like the kind of posts we make fun of on other sites.

did you seriously just say that sacre is an nba level player and a capable bench contributor?

im sorry sir but i laughed at that part and you lost me there. hill, meeks, and jamison upgraded the bench but beyond that there is no one that can keep the lead while the starters rest. ebanks still needs to prove tons and the rest of the bench is a joke. and this is assuming that jamison steps up his game because if the preseason gave us a glimpse of how he's gonna perform this year, it's not looking too good

i always see the comparison between spoelstra and brown, the point is that neither are great coaches but unless brown can get his rotations straight and play guys at the positions where they can actually make a difference, he's just about as useful as a cardboard cutout of himself. i expect the starters to get used to the offense and gel after about 20 games or so, and obviously this team is a contender but we're just gonna have to see some results

Doc Brown wrote:

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:

Doc Brown wrote:^^^ You keep talking about his Cleveland teams? Any Cleveland fan will tell you Mike Brown didn't do jack s*** for those teams. He was holding the poms poms, while the "mediocre" team took care of business. Pop took him to the cleaners in the finals.

Yes because Pop had a much better team. You keep saying he didn't do jack for the Cavs yet at the end of the day that team did much better with Brown there than they did before he got there and obviously after he was fired. Bottom line is as the head coach of the Cavaliers he coached what was a mediocre basketball team and made the one of the best in the league year in year out. They were always in the think of things despite a lack of top level talent.

Look at the Cavs teams before Brown started coaching and after he started coaching. There's a big difference between the teams, Brown didn't have the same team as Silas, the roster vastly improved as soon as Brown got hired. Not to mention Lebron was a rookie then. And after he was fired? Dude Lebron went to Miami right after Brown was fired. What kind of a claim is that?

I'll just post my response to you I gave you a long time ago when you made these claims....

Anything that team did or accomplished wasn't due to him. I got to see the Mike Brown tenure up close and personal. He didn't do anything magical to make the team better. He has had the same flaws all 6 years he was a head coach....

Over reliance on star player (Kobe/Bynum....Lebron)
Simple offensive sets, all iso. (Lebron did everything for that team....Kobe tried to do everything for this team)
Loves veteran PG's to the detriment of the team (Eric Snow....Steve Blake)
Horrible rotations
Get's severely outcoached by any above average coach in the league.
Never shows any fire, wants to be one of the guys, rather than the head coach.

He's not going to magically adjust this offseason and be the coach we want him to be. He's still the same flawed coach as he is in Cleveland. He hasn't gotten better, in some aspects he's gotten worse since his coaching stint in Cleveland.

All my friends that are Cavs fans, laughed their a**** off when Brown got hired here and told me to have fun with that, you will hate the guy before the halfway point of the season.

Brown had a good record in Cleveland because the Eastern Conference was a joke for awhile now.....

2005/2006 - 4 teams made playoffs with ~.500 record...one with a losing record.
2006/2007- 3 teams made playoffs with ~.500 record....one with a losing record.
2007/2008 - 3 teams made playoffs with ~.500 record....one with losing record. (8 games below 500)
2008/2009 - 4 teams made playoffs with ~.500 record....one with losing record.
2009/2010 - 1 team made playoffs with ~.500 record.

That record looks better than it is because Brown was coaching in a conference that had teams making the playoffs that could barely win 50% of their games. On top of that they played those teams 3 to 4 times a year. He got bounced 3 out 5 times in the playoffs in the 2nd round and let's not forget the butt whooping Pop laid on him in the Finals. That was embarrassing.

Only one team overachieve in his tenure the 2006-2007 team. They went to the Finals. Every other team actually underachieved in the playoffs as they were all hype in the regular season.

He needs a championship roster to be a championship caliber head coach? You can say that about every coach.The fact of the matter is, he has never cut it as a head coach and this offseason shouldn't give people confidence that he can change now. I've seen enough of him since 2005 to have zero confidence in him this offseason to make the necessary changes/adjustments.

.500 Wizards, .500 Nets, 50-win Pistons without Ben Wallace and with an injured Chauncey Billups, Swept. Infact, that was the only 50-win team that Mike Brown had defeated in the playoffs in Cleveland, 2005-10.

And they didn't have talent.....

Lebron / Mo Williams / Delonte / Gibson / Big Z / Varejao / Ben Wallace / Hickson / Parker / Shaq / Gooden / Joe Smith / Shannon Brown / Jamison / Danny Green / Damon Jones / Eric Snow

Those are the players Mike Brown was dealt during his time there. Yea he didn't have talent to win.

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:Brown didn't have championship caliber talent. Sure he had some deep teams, but to win a championship you typically need at least multiple All Stars. He had one superstar in LeBron and a bunch of solid role players. That's a good recipe for regular season success, but not a recipe for winning a championship. The Mavericks are really the only team recently who have been able to win a championship with only one All Star. Other than that every team that has won has needed multiple All Stars and solid role players to compliment them. The point stands that Brow simply didn't have the necessary talent to win a championship. Sure the East was weak I'm not disputing that fact, but at the end of the day Brown was still able to have alot of success with a team that just didn't have championship caliber talent. Now that he has some let's see how he does with it before we write him off as not being a championship caliber head coach.

Mike Bresnahan ‏@Mike_Bresnahan

With the stunning Harden trade, the Lakers are clear favorites in the West. Right, Pau? "Let's not fall into that stupidity from our end."

JGC wrote:

lotus wrote:
Darden is fine if you fast break and leave him open for 3's, but Martin can create a greater variety of scoring opportunies. Let's see how harden does without durant and westbrook to distract the defense.

Also, Lamb is a good prospect who is probably as good as.any young player on the lakers. And they get picks.

Well, this explains it. I thought for sure there was no way he could be talking about James Harden.

tigerjeterkobe wrote:People say that about the Mavs -- they didn't have all-stars beyond Dirk -- but that really isn't true. They had several all-star level players -- like Marion, Chandler (DPOY this year last year), Kid (former all-star with significant Finals experience) and Terry (a 6th man of the year). Granted, Dirk carried them. But those are not just ordinary role players. Just like people say that Detroit beat the Lakers as a team and without big stars -- but but Billups, Rip, Prince, Rasheed, and Ben were all all-star level talent.

Talking "super stars"? Ok, I get that. But I don't put Gasol as a superstar. Rarely did he ever just take over a game or deliver in the clutch -- he was just much more consistent during the 3 title runs. What Kobe did is similar to what Dirk did (though Kobe didn't have many signature moments in the Finals).

The next "one super star" team to win a title will likely be the Bulls. Great coach, great scheme, and great all-star level players as "role players."

Doc Brown wrote:

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:Brown didn't have championship caliber talent. Sure he had some deep teams, but to win a championship you typically need at least multiple All Stars. He had one superstar in LeBron and a bunch of solid role players. That's a good recipe for regular season success, but not a recipe for winning a championship. The Mavericks are really the only team recently who have been able to win a championship with only one All Star. Other than that every team that has won has needed multiple All Stars and solid role players to compliment them. The point stands that Brow simply didn't have the necessary talent to win a championship. Sure the East was weak I'm not disputing that fact, but at the end of the day Brown was still able to have alot of success with a team that just didn't have championship caliber talent. Now that he has some let's see how he does with it before we write him off as not being a championship caliber head coach.

If Brown needs to have Kobe/D12/Nash/Pau/MWP for people to finally consider him a good coach, then what does that really say about Mike Brown?

Pop is a great coach, George Karl is a great coach, Adelman is a great coach, Thibs is a great coach, Doug Collins is a great coach, Frank Vogel is on his way, the list goes on....

They don't have anywhere near the talent we do and no one would make excuses that they can't succeed because they don't have championship caliber talent. They're good coaches because they get the best out of the players, whether they win a championship or not, whether they have championship caliber talent or not.

karacha wrote:Our bench is definitely better this year. Ebanks has clearly improved, Meeks is good and can hit open shots, Hill is better then most people expected. Jamison is cold in the preseason as always, so the jury is still out on him... but we're definitely better now. Who knows... maybe Blake will shoot better for 3 now?

DirtySoap wrote:Can we shelve this Mike Brown debate till at least the all-star break? The season hasnt even started and people are already calling for his job. People keep calling him such a bad coach when he still managed to coach one of the worst teams in finals history into the NBA finals. He even coached last seasons Lakers squad to the third seed, even without third seed talent. This is a team that had a lockout shortened training camp, had a chemistry altering blockbuster trade vetoed, and traded the reigning 6th man of the for a protected draft pick. This team also fielded a PG rotation of Derek Fisher and Darius Morris last season. Memphis, Dallas, and the Clippers easily had more talented teams last year and he still managed to coach the Lakers to a better record. I'm not arguing that Brown is perfect, he clearly has some growing to do, but Lakers fans have unrealistic expectations sometimes. These things take time. I'm not going to waste anytime researching it, but I'm sure there aren't too many coaches that have won an NBA championship in their first year with a new team. Phil Jackson did it, but Phil Jackson also had championship level talent on his squad, Brown clearly did not. I hate to say it, but race is clearly at play here. Someone was just mentioning the best coaches in the league and there was no mention of Doc Rivers who most NBA players and coaches would argue is one of the best there is. All I'm saying is give it a rest on Mike Brown for awhile. He may not have won any preseason games, but last time I checked those don't count anyway. We only had our starters for one game, and in the rest, our underwhelming bench saw an overwhelming amount of minutes anyway. If the Lakers are anything less than the 2nd seed in the west come all-star break, I think there will be plenty of space for discussion, but until then can you all just sit back and enjoy the game?

Doc Brown wrote:Someone playing the race card again for Mike Brown....

ramsay13 wrote:Is the season over?

Doc Brown wrote:

ramsay13 wrote:Is the season over?

And I said no, but that's a real nice ski mask....

432J wrote:the 08-09 and 09-10 benches with odom and farmar were consistent most of the time, which is one of the main reasons they won back to back titles, the other reason being that pau actually showed up in the playoffs that season

this bench just reeks of inconsistency

Doc Brown wrote:

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:Brown didn't have championship caliber talent. Sure he had some deep teams, but to win a championship you typically need at least multiple All Stars. He had one superstar in LeBron and a bunch of solid role players. That's a good recipe for regular season success, but not a recipe for winning a championship. The Mavericks are really the only team recently who have been able to win a championship with only one All Star. Other than that every team that has won has needed multiple All Stars and solid role players to compliment them. The point stands that Brow simply didn't have the necessary talent to win a championship. Sure the East was weak I'm not disputing that fact, but at the end of the day Brown was still able to have alot of success with a team that just didn't have championship caliber talent. Now that he has some let's see how he does with it before we write him off as not being a championship caliber head coach.

If Brown needs to have Kobe/D12/Nash/Pau/MWP for people to finally consider him a good coach, then what does that really say about Mike Brown?

Pop is a great coach, George Karl is a great coach, Adelman is a great coach, Thibs is a great coach, Doug Collins is a great coach, Frank Vogel is on his way, the list goes on....

They don't have anywhere near the talent we do and no one would make excuses that they can't succeed because they don't have championship caliber talent. They're good coaches because they get the best out of the players, whether they win a championship or not, whether they have championship caliber talent or not.

FabFourLakers wrote:

DirtySoap wrote:Can we shelve this Mike Brown debate till at least the all-star break? The season hasnt even started and people are already calling for his job. People keep calling him such a bad coach when he still managed to coach one of the worst teams in finals history into the NBA finals. He even coached last seasons Lakers squad to the third seed, even without third seed talent. This is a team that had a lockout shortened training camp, had a chemistry altering blockbuster trade vetoed, and traded the reigning 6th man of the for a protected draft pick. This team also fielded a PG rotation of Derek Fisher and Darius Morris last season. Memphis, Dallas, and the Clippers easily had more talented teams last year and he still managed to coach the Lakers to a better record. I'm not arguing that Brown is perfect, he clearly has some growing to do, but Lakers fans have unrealistic expectations sometimes. These things take time. I'm not going to waste anytime researching it, but I'm sure there aren't too many coaches that have won an NBA championship in their first year with a new team. Phil Jackson did it, but Phil Jackson also had championship level talent on his squad, Brown clearly did not. I hate to say it, but race is clearly at play here. Someone was just mentioning the best coaches in the league and there was no mention of Doc Rivers who most NBA players and coaches would argue is one of the best there is. All I'm saying is give it a rest on Mike Brown for awhile. He may not have won any preseason games, but last time I checked those don't count anyway. We only had our starters for one game, and in the rest, our underwhelming bench saw an overwhelming amount of minutes anyway. If the Lakers are anything less than the 2nd seed in the west come all-star break, I think there will be plenty of space for discussion, but until then can you all just sit back and enjoy the game?

I STRONGLY disagree with your claim about "race" being an issue here. It's clearly NOT...we are judging him based on DATA...based on how he has PERFORMED...PERFORMANCE is what wer'e judging him on...not the fact that he's an African American coach in the NBA. That is SUCH a cop out to say its race-related. I'm a minority myself and I hate when people use this excuse. Mike Brown HAS a roster to win it all now, but his rotations are already confusing the crap out of most laker fans. I do NOT like when he puts sacre hill jamsion ebanks and blake in the game...that's just stupid....hill jamsion and ebanks are playing out of position and what ends up happening is we run the offense through SACRE or HILL ends up with the ball for a jumper when it SHOULD be Jamison getting the ball for that open jumper. That's VERY frustrating to watch. MB needs to fix his damn rotations....its SO simple yet he chooses to make it hard.

Doc Brown wrote:Someone playing the race card again for Mike Brown....

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:Of the coaches you named only one has a championship. Gregg Popvich because he coached championship caliber talent. Every coach that wins a championship needs championship caliber talent to do so. You need superstars. Phil had several star players like Michael Jordan the greatest basketball player of all time, another all time great in Scottie Pippen, Kobe and Shaq arguably the two best players of the post Jordan era, and Pau Gasol someone who in his prime was a perennial All Star.

Pop as I mentioned had terrific talent had Tim Duncan the greatest power forward ever, David Robinson one of the best big men ever, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli two All Stars a potential future Hall of Famers. Along with those great players Pop's teams always had terrific role players like Malik Rose, Stephen Jackson, Bruce Bowen, Avery Johnson, etc. who all knew their roles and backed up the stars.

Those are just two examples of coaches needing great talent to win. Mike Brown just hasn't had enough talent to win a championship. Is he perfect? No not by a long shot and I'm in no way saying he's in the class of all time great head coaches like Phil and Pop, but I do believe he's a good enough coach for this team to win a championship. Besides Kobe and Nash will basically be head coaches on the floor so it ain't like Brown is gonna have to do it by himself.