The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby MC on Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:39 am

naw... not Pau ........

just someone who sees what the real issue is.

again Spain doesn't have issues with Pau's play...... why if it;'s the player that is shot?

NOBODY wants to deal with that elephant in the room now do they?

That's because it's painfully obvious that he is not being given a chance to succeed within a proper role.

But fans are fans..... no wins, fantasy numbers down means player can't play.....
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby trodgers on Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:58 am

MC wrote:trodgers -

how many 7 foot centers are asked to convert to a stretch 4?

Pau has played PF a good deal since he came to the Lakers. Why is he suddenly having a problem?

How about Nash if he was asked to play PF? would that be Nash's issue to adjust and not coaching?

How about we play Bryant at Center? could he adjust to that so we don't question the coach?

So, your point is that Gasol doesn't have the skillset for this role? Did you watch the Olympics? That's how he played in the Olympics.

Better yet, lets play Jamison at the 2....... again would it be the players fault?

Jamison could do better at the 2 than Pau at the 4. In fact, Jamison plays the 3 a good deal for us, and many 2s and 3s are the same player.

Bryant has adjusted to his role because he has 2 man or 3 man skill sets............ that is not a stretch. I think we all secretly know trying to make Gasol a stretch 4 was a risky move and it's come out on the disaster side.

For the record, Kobe has played the 1 for us a good deal.


Again...... Spain national team seem to get good ball out of Gasol...... and playing beside his brother at that. That good ball was right in between last year and this years NBA season but for a different coaching staff that actually still feature him in his natural spots.

what's the problem here?

oh ya...... 2 coaches that brought in the stretch 4...... 2 man game while everyone else stands still philosophy. Actually, my bag, that is on the OWNERSHIP for wanting pretty fast pace ball instead of thinking about what they have here right in the now.


miss-use of a player is all coaching......... if you put the player in position to succeed and he fails that's a different story. The last 2 years have been nothing but using him just because he's on the roster..... not in a manner that respects he still has very good basketball skills IF he has a coach that will have his back and use him.

I've already responded: he played outside the paint a great deal for Spain.
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby MC on Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:16 am

^
there is a difference being feature and playing a position for a specific purpose and what the Lakers are doing with Gasol........... that was crystal clear.

It's not about being in the paint all the time..... it's about getting guys in natural spots and Gasol is not just a post player. He has some range...... making him work from the 3 point line however and just spot up and shoot is not one of them.

Bryant has played the 1 this year.......... and his TO rate showed that. Don't get me wrong, he did great for asking him to do what he is not but he still was not efficient as far as a PG goes and last time I checked TO was huge reason for Brown getting canned even though the offense itself was shooting a good % and early in the Princeton process. Sometimes those numbers are deceiving however and easily offset by turning over the ball. You really don't help that by playing guys in uncomfortable positions and all we have done is go to an offense that does just that..... MWP 3 point specialist... Gasol mostly a spacing spreading stretch 4...... Bryant a PG....... Jamison who is stretch 4 occupying the bench keeping it toasty..... Morris a 2 guard....

All very highly questionable adjustments outside of Bryant playing the 1 which came more from injury reasons than an actual adjustment.

But lets just ignore all that I guess........ Pau just can't play anymore...... even though we saw it with our own eyes for Spain. Blame Pau for sure.

The off ball player movement is just too genius for it to be the systems we played last year and now this year with MDA...... 3 guys spotting up and sliding around the 3 point line is not exactly what I call off ball player movement but whatever..... we are clearly a jump shooting team so it should work right? lol.
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby trodgers on Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:11 am

MC wrote:^
there is a difference being feature and playing a position for a specific purpose and what the Lakers are doing with Gasol........... that was crystal clear.

It's not about being in the paint all the time..... it's about getting guys in natural spots and Gasol is not just a post player. He has some range...... making him work from the 3 point line however and just spot up and shoot is not one of them.

Be real for a moment. Have you watched the Lakers under D'Antoni? Is it true that all Pau does is work from the 3-pt line? Is it even true that most of the time he works from the 3-pt line? Is it true that he is not permitted to drive or roll and pass? I'll be honest: If D'Antoni has forbidden him from doing those things, Pau has every right to be livid. But if D'Antoni were doing that, everyone would be up in arms. Everyone.

Bryant has played the 1 this year.......... and his TO rate showed that. Don't get me wrong, he did great for asking him to do what he is not but he still was not efficient as far as a PG goes and last time I checked TO was huge reason for Brown getting canned even though the offense itself was shooting a good % and early in the Princeton process. Sometimes those numbers are deceiving however and easily offset by turning over the ball. You really don't help that by playing guys in uncomfortable positions and all we have done is go to an offense that does just that..... MWP 3 point specialist... Gasol mostly a spacing spreading stretch 4...... Bryant a PG....... Jamison who is stretch 4 occupying the bench keeping it toasty..... Morris a 2 guard....

No one complained about Kobe's play when he was "forced" to be a PG and did his best. Because he was good at it.

But lets just ignore all that I guess........ Pau just can't play anymore...... even though we saw it with our own eyes for Spain. Blame Pau for sure.

Ignore WHAT? You're not saying anything that should make anyone even consider revising their opinion.

The off ball player movement is just too genius for it to be the systems we played last year and now this year with MDA...... 3 guys spotting up and sliding around the 3 point line is not exactly what I call off ball player movement but whatever..... we are clearly a jump shooting team so it should work right? lol.

I don't know what you have in mind here. But I like the lol. It adds a certain gravitas to your argument.
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby MC on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:32 am

^
I haven't watched every single game but I'd say about 90%......

Every possession he is at the 3 point line is a mis- use of Gasol period............. he isn't setting a career mark in three point attempts because he isn't behind the three point line more than he should be.

Glad you like the lol.......

sorry if that last part was a little too much sarcasm for ya but try and dispute it. You see a lot of player movement in MDAs system so far? outside of the 2 man action he tries to create while 3 guys hover around the perimeter?

has nothing to do with pace or anything like that...... it's the way they use the pieces within the half court sets.

please.....

....

and 5 turnovers a game for team struggling in T.Os and giving up transition buckets at the time is doing great for a PG I guess Bryant was great at PG during that time. T.Os and transition looks is what really got the ball rolling for Brown's dismissal..... than it was MDAs system will be easier for these guys and reduce the T.Os........ guess not.
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby GoldenKnight on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:05 pm

Here's what I see:

Pau asks for ball, Pau gets ball, Pau smacks ball with right hand before dribbling in a sign of "let's go" aggressiveness, Pau gets in deep, Pau passes the ball.

This happens 99% of the time while he is in the post.
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby ElginTheGreat on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:10 pm

GoldenKnight wrote:Here's what I see:

Pau asks for ball, Pau gets ball, Pau smacks ball with right hand before dribbling in a sign of "let's go" aggressiveness, Pau gets in deep, Pau passes the ball.

This happens 99% of the time while he is in the post.



I feel the same way about Pau.
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby Finwë on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:04 pm

GoldenKnight wrote:Here's what I see:

Pau asks for ball, Pau gets ball, Pau smacks ball with right hand before dribbling in a sign of "let's go" aggressiveness, Pau gets in deep, Pau passes the ball.

This happens 99% of the time while he is in the post.

Pretty much. Sometimes he settles for turnaround jumpers too. OR he tries to finish around the basket screaming UUUUGUAHAHGHAHHGHHGAHHH in order to get the foul to no avail.
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby Punk-101 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:07 pm

There were 6-8 instances where Pau was single covered deep in the low post by Farid, Gallo, and even Andre freaking Miller and he hot-potatoed it every time. I'm going to start keeping an informal stat on Pau. SHA (should have attacked).
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby trodgers on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:08 pm

MC wrote:^
I haven't watched every single game but I'd say about 90%......

Every possession he is at the 3 point line is a mis- use of Gasol period............. he isn't setting a career mark in three point attempts because he isn't behind the three point line more than he should be.

Then you didn't watch the Olympics, because he worked from the 3pt line and a step inside a GREAT DEAL.

Glad you like the lol.......

sorry if that last part was a little too much sarcasm for ya but try and dispute it. You see a lot of player movement in MDAs system so far? outside of the 2 man action he tries to create while 3 guys hover around the perimeter?

I think D'Antoni's a huge problem, but Gasol has been on the decline for more than two seasons. I honestly think that the "resurgence" of Gasol was in part playing against mostly inferior competition in the Olympics and in part a lot of stroking his ego. I think the team can do a much better job of making him feel involved, but he as to embrace the role. He is still one of the best passers from the 4/5 spot. He has to get 10 minutes a game to play the 5, and he has to be active when he's at the 4. LA would be so much better if he'd just invest in the system.

has nothing to do with pace or anything like that...... it's the way they use the pieces within the half court sets.

I don't think it's pace either. I don't think it's the way he's used either. I think he's pouting.

and 5 turnovers a game for team struggling in T.Os and giving up transition buckets at the time is doing great for a PG I guess Bryant was great at PG during that time. T.Os and transition looks is what really got the ball rolling for Brown's dismissal..... than it was MDAs system will be easier for these guys and reduce the T.Os........ guess not.

Kobe didn't average 5 TO/game. Say true things; it will help us get to the truth of the matter.

Kobe's November: 27.0 points, 5.6 assists, 5.4 rebounds, 4.1 TO, 1.7 Stl, 48-40-88 shooting. That's awesome.
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby MC on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:14 pm

trodgers wrote:Kobe didn't average 5 TO/game. Say true things; it will help us get to the truth of the matter.

Kobe's November: 27.0 points, 5.6 assists, 5.4 rebounds, 4.1 TO, 1.7 Stl, 48-40-88 shooting. That's awesome.


That is great for a 2 guard.... not for a PG. You got to be better than 1.3 to 1 assists to turnovers as a PG, especially in MDAs system.

That was my point......... he did great for the position they put him in but lets not act like you would ecstatic if your PG always gave you that type of production assists to turnovers wise...... that would be disingenuous don't you think?

I thought it was closer to 5 turnovers when he was playing that role.... not his season stat on it... sorry but those numbers don't really sway my position to it a hole lot but thanks for the correction.
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby trodgers on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:17 pm

But we WERE ecstatic with how Kobe was doing in the role. That's the difference.
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby MC on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:20 pm

trodgers wrote:But we WERE ecstatic with how Kobe was doing in the role. That's the difference.


really? is that why we fired our coach? because we were pleased with the offensive flow giving up T.Os at an alarming rate which of course led to transition hoops.

I don't think they were pleased at all.... or we wouldn't have heard ....just wait till Nash comes back.
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby trodgers on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:22 pm

MC wrote:
trodgers wrote:But we WERE ecstatic with how Kobe was doing in the role. That's the difference.


really? is that why we fired our coach? because we were pleased with the offensive flow giving up T.Os at an alarming rate which of course led to transition hoops.

I don't think they were pleased at all.... or we wouldn't have heard ....just wait till Nash comes back.

...with how Kobe was doing in the role...
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby MC on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:26 pm

trodgers wrote:
MC wrote:
trodgers wrote:But we WERE ecstatic with how Kobe was doing in the role. That's the difference.


really? is that why we fired our coach? because we were pleased with the offensive flow giving up T.Os at an alarming rate which of course led to transition hoops.

I don't think they were pleased at all.... or we wouldn't have heard ....just wait till Nash comes back.

...with how Kobe was doing in the role...


again what Bryant was doing out of the role is not ideal for what you need a PG to do..... he had great #s outside of what a PG is to do which is get other guys involved ...... a less than 2 to 1 assists to turnover ratio is not good for a PG, especially within this type of system. But for a guy that is not a PG guard he held the fort very nicely.

I thought he did really well for being out of position but to suggest happiness is a little over the top....
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby trodgers on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:28 pm

MC, compare what Pau is doing given his skillset with what Kobe did given his. Kobe adapted and pressed on. Pau has whined, pouted, and performed like garbage, both in his traditional role and in his new role.
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Re: The Lakers continue to overlook Pau Gasol in their offense

Postby MC on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:34 pm

trodgers wrote:MC, compare what Pau is doing given his skillset with what Kobe did given his. Kobe adapted and pressed on. Pau has whined, pouted, and performed like garbage, both in his traditional role and in his new role.


not sure if this staff really has given him a fair shake or opportunity to work it threw..... they gave up on him when they traded him and now he's just there to be there.........

I'm sure that is frustrating for both sides....

difference is head coach is there to make the pieces work

can't do that forcing something that doesn't work..... not only for Gasol but half our roster.

either way..... whether MDA, Buss, the janitor...you or me like it or not.... this team's fate was centered on how Pau adapted to this new philosophy of the Lakers........ he hasn't..... big F on the mid term so far.

the sad part is there isn't even an attempt to squeeze out what he has left..... he's literally a leaper right now as far as the lakers are concerned....... just wondering who the next one will be when Pau is gone and nothing changes winning wise.
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