The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby Vlade_12 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:31 pm

we don't play it for 48 minutes because we are old and it drains our energy.. We need to play more younger players like Clark, Increase JHILLs minutes, run a 10 man rotation, don't over play guys, add another wing man
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby Vlade_12 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:32 pm

Gasol pick and roll defense is horrible, and he can't handle 4s no longer
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby JGC on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:32 pm

Vlade_12 wrote:we don't play it for 48 minutes because we are old and it drains our energy.. We need to play more younger players like Clark, Increase JHILLs minutes, run a 10 man rotation, don't over play guys, add another wing man


That is BS. Has nothing to do with age.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby lakerzkb8 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:37 pm

Problem is with the offense and defense. If we're doing bad stuff on the offensive end it results in turnovers, bad shots-- bad transition defense, this that and a third. The two are connected.

I personally think this season is a lost cause, so im not even tripping more. Watching this team play is just ugly. We need a better coaching system, better communication between players, better role players so everyone is on the same page and ready to go next year.

Lakers need to lock in to what they have right now in regards to coaching, players, what each player is capable of or not. I think Magic said it best on his twitter, every players role needs to be defined. They need to get scientific and just do what they can as efficiently as possible to make the playoffs. The goal needs to be making the playoffs.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby JGC on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:37 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
revgen wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:We give up the second most amount of Field Goal attempts a game in the league.

Slow it down and stop letting the other team have the ball.


No. We ran a slow-pace last season. We still lost in the 2nd round.

We have to establish good habits regardless of what pace we play at.

Oh so this team is the same as last season? We just had 6 players play that weren't even on our team last year.

Last season's team means nothing to anything about this season at all in any way.

This team hasn't played at a slower pace since the first five games.

But to say we can play at this pace and somehow figure out the trick to playing defense with some better habits is just silly. This team can't play at this pace.


I think his point is that slowing things down accomplishes nothing other than a 112-105 loss becomes a 92-85 loss instead.

We don't even look good defensively in the halfcourt. I don't think it's a scheme thing per se either... there is something else going on there.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby Armani on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:39 pm

revgen wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:We give up the second most amount of Field Goal attempts a game in the league.

Slow it down and stop letting the other team have the ball.


No. We ran a slow-pace last season. We still lost in the 2nd round.

We have to establish good habits regardless of what pace we play at.


Wait, what? :man3:

That team was much better than this one... and that team didn't have Steven Nash/Dwight Howard. That team was above average defensively. This team is the worst on D.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby lakersin4 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:44 pm

cthroatgtr wrote:I think individual defense is fine. TEAM defense is crap. Its like each player is playing off of previous concepts. How many times have 2 guys gone to the same player and left a guy wide open to the lane. A slower pace wouldn't hurt either. Too many 3s is too many run outs and for an older team that doesn't work. Transition D and team defense is killing them.

That's what happens when the coach doesn't have rotations figured out & the players don't have defined roles.. One game Ron is the starting SF the next he's the PF. Playing Kobe out of position.. Having to play so many cross matchups when facing a PG who will burn us.. What's crazy is Kobe & Ron have been in on so many of the missed rotations/general bad defensive plays.. I don't believe these guys just forgot the fundamentals all of a sudden.. It's definitely a team thing. Hopefully we get settled in to some rotations & defined roles. It can come via trade by getting players that fit the roles we need, or just figuring out how to use the pieces we have, I don't care, just figure it out before it's too late. Once we do that & start winning guys will talk more & it should be all uphill.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby revgen on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:44 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
revgen wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:We give up the second most amount of Field Goal attempts a game in the league.

Slow it down and stop letting the other team have the ball.


No. We ran a slow-pace last season. We still lost in the 2nd round.

We have to establish good habits regardless of what pace we play at.

Oh so this team is the same as last season? We just had 6 players play that weren't even on our team last year.

Last season's team means nothing to anything about this season at all in any way.

This team hasn't played at a slower pace since the first five games.

But to say we can play at this pace and somehow figure out the trick to playing defense with some better habits is just silly. This team can't play at this pace.


1) I didn't say that the teams were the same. So I'm not sure what your point is.

2) No. Not silly at all.

This team is currently in the top 10 in points per possession offensively despite playing at a high pace.

The problem is poor defensive habits.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby JGC on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:44 pm

Armani wrote:
revgen wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:We give up the second most amount of Field Goal attempts a game in the league.

Slow it down and stop letting the other team have the ball.


No. We ran a slow-pace last season. We still lost in the 2nd round.

We have to establish good habits regardless of what pace we play at.


Wait, what? :man3:

That team was much better than this one... and that team didn't have Steven Nash/Dwight Howard. That team was above average defensively. This team is the worst on D.


Well, we WERE better. I think first couple months we led the league in opp FG% at 41%. Then, something happened when we went like 20 games without scoring over 100 PPG more than like twice and we decided to focus on offense.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby revgen on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:46 pm

Armani wrote:
revgen wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:We give up the second most amount of Field Goal attempts a game in the league.

Slow it down and stop letting the other team have the ball.


No. We ran a slow-pace last season. We still lost in the 2nd round.

We have to establish good habits regardless of what pace we play at.


Wait, what? :man3:

That team was much better than this one... and that team didn't have Steven Nash/Dwight Howard. That team was above average defensively. This team is the worst on D.


They were slightly above average. 13th in the league in defensive points per possession. And unlike this team, they didn't suffer major injuries.

They also hid their poor defensive habits by slowing the pace down to a crawl, which significantly affected their offense.

You can hide these bad habits by slowing the pace down to an extent, but good teams like OKC will expose these issues in the playoffs. Just as Dallas did the previous season.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby JGC on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:48 pm

revgen wrote:
Armani wrote:
revgen wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:We give up the second most amount of Field Goal attempts a game in the league.

Slow it down and stop letting the other team have the ball.


No. We ran a slow-pace last season. We still lost in the 2nd round.

We have to establish good habits regardless of what pace we play at.


Wait, what? :man3:

That team was much better than this one... and that team didn't have Steven Nash/Dwight Howard. That team was above average defensively. This team is the worst on D.


They were slightly above average. 13th in the league in defensive points per possession. And unlike this team, they didn't suffer major injuries.

They also hid their poor defensive habits by slowing the pace down to a crawl, which significantly affected their offense.


And a lot of that includes the first couple months when we were playing elite D and holding opponents to 41% shooting. I am almost certain in that span, we were #1 in defensive points per possession. We ended up 13th, sure but only because we started focusing on offense. So that means after those first couple months, we were probably as bad as we are now or close to it and then ended up being 13th.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby revgen on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:51 pm

JGC wrote:
revgen wrote:
Armani wrote:
revgen wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:We give up the second most amount of Field Goal attempts a game in the league.

Slow it down and stop letting the other team have the ball.


No. We ran a slow-pace last season. We still lost in the 2nd round.

We have to establish good habits regardless of what pace we play at.


Wait, what? :man3:

That team was much better than this one... and that team didn't have Steven Nash/Dwight Howard. That team was above average defensively. This team is the worst on D.


They were slightly above average. 13th in the league in defensive points per possession. And unlike this team, they didn't suffer major injuries.

They also hid their poor defensive habits by slowing the pace down to a crawl, which significantly affected their offense.


And a lot of that includes the first couple months when we were playing elite D and holding opponents to 41% shooting. I am almost certain in that span, we were #1 in defensive points per possession. We ended up 13th, sure but only because we started focusing on offense. So that means after those first couple months, we were probably as bad as we are now or close to it and then ended up being 13th.


I think it had more to do with that fact that lockout happened and teams were rusty and out of shape to start the season. When they started to get into shape, we weren't able to stop them.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby Nikez on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:51 pm

cthroatgtr wrote:Solution is to develop a defense approach. First this team should have some zone in its arsenal. Second I would figure out a plan for P&R and stick with it. Usually its the third guy that doesn't rotate. Finally less sagging into the paint. The whole team doesn't need to help that is playground ball.

Agree with the rest except this. When they sag too much in the paint, the other team is knocking down a 3. When they are aware of guarding the perimeter, the other team's guard is slashing to the hoop for a wide open layup. I think the main problem with our D is the rotations. Maybe that is too obvious, but I see a team that doesn't gamble, gives good effort on D for like the first 10 seconds into the shot clock then brainfarts and gives up a wide open look somewhere on the court. We need to be smarter and communicate, watch tape, just play SMARTER defense. Like in the 4th q tonight we were glued to the spurs players and got some really good stops. We severely lack consistency.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby JGC on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:54 pm

revgen wrote:
JGC wrote:
revgen wrote:
Armani wrote:
revgen wrote:No. We ran a slow-pace last season. We still lost in the 2nd round.

We have to establish good habits regardless of what pace we play at.


Wait, what? :man3:

That team was much better than this one... and that team didn't have Steven Nash/Dwight Howard. That team was above average defensively. This team is the worst on D.


They were slightly above average. 13th in the league in defensive points per possession. And unlike this team, they didn't suffer major injuries.

They also hid their poor defensive habits by slowing the pace down to a crawl, which significantly affected their offense.


And a lot of that includes the first couple months when we were playing elite D and holding opponents to 41% shooting. I am almost certain in that span, we were #1 in defensive points per possession. We ended up 13th, sure but only because we started focusing on offense. So that means after those first couple months, we were probably as bad as we are now or close to it and then ended up being 13th.


I think it had more to do with that fact that lockout happened and teams were rusty and out of shape to start the season. When they started to get into shape, we weren't able to stop them.


Hmmm, I don't know about that. I'm not sure why the lockout would benefit the Lakers more than any other team. I know what you're getting at, and I think there is some merit to it, but why would it benefit us more than anyone else?
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby revgen on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:58 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
revgen wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:
revgen wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:We give up the second most amount of Field Goal attempts a game in the league.

Slow it down and stop letting the other team have the ball.


No. We ran a slow-pace last season. We still lost in the 2nd round.

We have to establish good habits regardless of what pace we play at.

Oh so this team is the same as last season? We just had 6 players play that weren't even on our team last year.

Last season's team means nothing to anything about this season at all in any way.

This team hasn't played at a slower pace since the first five games.

But to say we can play at this pace and somehow figure out the trick to playing defense with some better habits is just silly. This team can't play at this pace.


1) I didn't say that the teams were the same. So I'm not sure what your point is.

2) No. Not silly at all.

This team is currently in the top 10 in points per possession offensively despite playing at a high pace.

The problem is poor defensive habits.

? Whoever said they couldn't score?

I'm simply saying play slower so the opposition gets the ball less. So we have to play defense less. If we can score that well and we're losing these games because of a few baskets a game, then why play so fast to the 110's? Why have so many possessions where you can make a mistake or turnover directly giving the opposition the ball back? We aren't good defensively. The easiest way to improve our defense is to give them the ball less.


In other words, slow the pace down to hide our poor defensive habits.

That's not the answer. It didn't work last season. It didn't work against Dallas. Poor defensive habits will be exposed regardless of what pace we play at.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby JGC on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:00 pm

Slowing the game down doesn't ONLY limit their possessions.

It limits our possessions also.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby revgen on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:05 pm

JGC wrote:
revgen wrote:
JGC wrote:
revgen wrote:
Armani wrote:Wait, what? :man3:

That team was much better than this one... and that team didn't have Steven Nash/Dwight Howard. That team was above average defensively. This team is the worst on D.


They were slightly above average. 13th in the league in defensive points per possession. And unlike this team, they didn't suffer major injuries.

They also hid their poor defensive habits by slowing the pace down to a crawl, which significantly affected their offense.


And a lot of that includes the first couple months when we were playing elite D and holding opponents to 41% shooting. I am almost certain in that span, we were #1 in defensive points per possession. We ended up 13th, sure but only because we started focusing on offense. So that means after those first couple months, we were probably as bad as we are now or close to it and then ended up being 13th.


I think it had more to do with that fact that lockout happened and teams were rusty and out of shape to start the season. When they started to get into shape, we weren't able to stop them.


Hmmm, I don't know about that. I'm not sure why the lockout would benefit the Lakers more than any other team. I know what you're getting at, and I think there is some merit to it, but why would it benefit us more than anyone else?


I can't say for sure. I didn't watch the other teams that much. Just my feeling on it.

I believe the other teams are more rhythm and execution teams. They use screens, cuts, etc. We just dumped it in to our big 3 for ISO plays. ISO ball doesn't really require rhythm and execution.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby JGC on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:07 pm

revgen wrote:
JGC wrote:
revgen wrote:
JGC wrote:
revgen wrote:They were slightly above average. 13th in the league in defensive points per possession. And unlike this team, they didn't suffer major injuries.

They also hid their poor defensive habits by slowing the pace down to a crawl, which significantly affected their offense.


And a lot of that includes the first couple months when we were playing elite D and holding opponents to 41% shooting. I am almost certain in that span, we were #1 in defensive points per possession. We ended up 13th, sure but only because we started focusing on offense. So that means after those first couple months, we were probably as bad as we are now or close to it and then ended up being 13th.


I think it had more to do with that fact that lockout happened and teams were rusty and out of shape to start the season. When they started to get into shape, we weren't able to stop them.


Hmmm, I don't know about that. I'm not sure why the lockout would benefit the Lakers more than any other team. I know what you're getting at, and I think there is some merit to it, but why would it benefit us more than anyone else?


I can't say for sure. I didn't watch the other teams that much. Just my feeling on it.

I believe the other teams are more rhythm and execution teams. They use screens, cuts, etc. We just dumped it in to our big 3 for ISO plays. ISO ball doesn't really require rhythm and execution.


Well, that makes sense on offense. But we were talking about defense. I was saying that for the first couple of months, we held opponents to 41% FG and were probably top 3 if not #1 in defensive points per possession. I attribute that to focusing on playing defense. I can't really attribute it to the shortened season because then every team would have the same OPP FG%.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby Vlade_12 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:11 pm

JGC wrote:
Vlade_12 wrote:we don't play it for 48 minutes because we are old and it drains our energy.. We need to play more younger players like Clark, Increase JHILLs minutes, run a 10 man rotation, don't over play guys, add another wing man


That is BS. Has nothing to do with age.


Why do you think Kobe coast so much on defense during the long regular season. Your in denial if you don't think age is A factor
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby JGC on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:21 pm

Vlade_12 wrote:
JGC wrote:
Vlade_12 wrote:we don't play it for 48 minutes because we are old and it drains our energy.. We need to play more younger players like Clark, Increase JHILLs minutes, run a 10 man rotation, don't over play guys, add another wing man


That is BS. Has nothing to do with age.


Why do you think Kobe coast so much on defense during the long regular season. Your in denial if you don't think age is A factor


If you're saying he's coasting, then you're really saying he CAN play defense, he's just choosing not to.

It's that I have a problem with. He could perhaps, oh, not lead the league in scoring and use some of that energy for defense couldn't he?
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby revgen on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:02 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
revgen wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:
revgen wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:Oh so this team is the same as last season? We just had 6 players play that weren't even on our team last year.

Last season's team means nothing to anything about this season at all in any way.

This team hasn't played at a slower pace since the first five games.

But to say we can play at this pace and somehow figure out the trick to playing defense with some better habits is just silly. This team can't play at this pace.


1) I didn't say that the teams were the same. So I'm not sure what your point is.

2) No. Not silly at all.

This team is currently in the top 10 in points per possession offensively despite playing at a high pace.

The problem is poor defensive habits.

? Whoever said they couldn't score?

I'm simply saying play slower so the opposition gets the ball less. So we have to play defense less. If we can score that well and we're losing these games because of a few baskets a game, then why play so fast to the 110's? Why have so many possessions where you can make a mistake or turnover directly giving the opposition the ball back? We aren't good defensively. The easiest way to improve our defense is to give them the ball less.


In other words, slow the pace down to hide our poor defensive habits.

That's not the answer. It didn't work last season. It didn't work against Dallas. Poor defensive habits will be exposed regardless of what pace we play at.

You keep saying we did it last season.

LAST SEASON DOESN'T MATTER.


Bad habits do matter.

Our habits on defense have been poor since Phil's last season. These habits can't continue if we want to win a championship.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby khmrP on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:17 pm

this team gives up both wide open layups as well as wide open 3's.....normally we use only give up one or the other during prior years
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby phoenixrisingla on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:34 am

khmrP wrote:this team gives up both wide open layups as well as wide open 3's.....normally we use only give up one or the other during prior years


Especially right now with out big's out.

People are trying to help by collapsing on the driving lanes, only to leave their man (always seems to be the other teams 3pt ace) like a 8ft buffer.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby phoenixrisingla on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:14 pm

I know it's on the players too, but sometimes I feel like arguement of "these guys are Pro's, they need to be giving 100% every night regardless of anything else" isnt realistic.

I take my career VERY seriously, but I cant honestly say I NEVER have a down day. Can any of us say that? the NBA is a long season and even the most dedicated players have down days, lose focus, etc.

Part of a coaches job, IMHO, is to keep players motivated focused and I think that when a coach is merely playing lip service to improving on defense as opposed to taking control of the team and forcing it, it is obvious and trickles down.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby KB24 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:56 pm

SmoothOperator wrote:Jan 9 - SAS scores 108 - Loss
Jan 8 - HOU scores 125 - Loss
Jan 6 - DEN scores 112 - Loss
Jan 4 - LAC scores 107 - Loss
Jan 1 - PHI scores 103 - Loss
Dec 28 - POR scores 87 - Win
Dec 26 - DEN scores 126 - Loss
Dec 25 - NYK scores 95 - Win
Dec 22 - GSW scores 115 - Win
Dec 18 - CHA scores 100 - Win

Dec 16 - PHI scores 98 - Win
Dec 14 - WAS scores 96 - Win

Dec 13 - NYK scores 113 - Loss
Dec 11 - CLE scores 100 - Loss
Dec 9 - UTA scores 117 - Loss
Dec 7 - OKC scores 114 - Loss
Dec 5 - NOH scores 87 - Win
Dec 4 - HOU scores 107 - Loss
Dec 2 - ORL scores 113 - Loss


Since Dec 1, The Lakers went 7-12.
- 6 out of 7 of the wins were when the opponent scored 100 points or less.
- 11 out of 12 of the losses, the opponents scored 101 points or more.


...... As the thread says, DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM. Follow the trend.... hold teams under 100 and we win 85% of our games. Let them score over 101, we lose 92% of those games.


I knew we are terrible on defense...but looking at those numbers, I don't think I can ever remember a stretch in which the Lakers were this bad on defense...not even with Cook, Walton, Smush and Kwame as part of the starting lineup.

It seems like we are getting battered every game with 110+ points....
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