The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby borri on Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:57 pm

Also, let me put it to you this way. I am 40. Tried to play a pick up game with dude in their early 30's. I tried as hard as I could, focusing 100% on D. Still couldn't match their quickness.

I don't know how old you are, but let me tell us this. I am no where near as fast and quick as when I was in my mid 30's. When I was in my mid 30's I also was no where near as fast and quick as when I was in my late 20's.

That's what age does to you bro. Can't escape. Kobe is 10000% right. I think he knows alot more about what it takes to play good defense in the NBA than we do.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby revgen on Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:59 pm

^You're talking about 1 vs 1. It's not about 1 vs 1. It's about team defense. Talking, helping, communicating.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby borri on Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:04 pm

revgen wrote:^You're talking about 1 vs 1. It's not about 1 vs 1. It's about team defense. Talking, helping, communicating.


I get you. But the problem is, we help. We are forced to help. Helping taxes the defense. Creates open looks. That's why our team defense is second to last in opp ast/to ratio.

Guys get to the paint, dish off for open looks. Miss a shot and get offensive rebounds. That right there has been a microcosm of our D this year.

Yes, we suck at help D. But forcing us to scramble to help, takes energy from all players. We are old. We play a fast pace on O. It just is not the right mix.

Look, I am not saying we suck only because we are old. What I am saying is, it plays a large part of our defensive downfall.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby revgen on Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:30 pm

borri wrote:
revgen wrote:^You're talking about 1 vs 1. It's not about 1 vs 1. It's about team defense. Talking, helping, communicating.


I get you. But the problem is, we help. We are forced to help. Helping taxes the defense. Creates open looks. That's why our team defense is second to last in opp ast/to ratio.

Guys get to the paint, dish off for open looks. Miss a shot and get offensive rebounds. That right there has been a microcosm of our D this year.

Yes, we suck at help D. But forcing us to scramble to help, takes energy from all players. We are old. We play a fast pace on O. It just is not the right mix.

Look, I am not saying we suck only because we are old. What I am saying is, it plays a large part of our defensive downfall.


It takes so much energy, because we have no sense of timing. We are simply running around like headless chickens. If we actually practice our rotations, everybody would know exactly where to be and where to go.

As D12 told a reporter recently,

Reporter: "We've been talking about this all season, the area of defense, what was plaguing you guys tonight on that end?"

Howard: "The pick and roll defense wasn't great tonight. The help wasn't there, the help the helper wasn't there. It just has to be better overall."

Reporter: "Those are things you have talked about a lot of times this season, what's the learning curve going on in regards to that?"

Howard: "Those guys gotta be IN THE RIGHT SPOTS, and they have to be taught it. It has to be something that you practice on, so guys can understand [what] they have to go through. You can't just TALK about defense, and TALK about where to go, you actually gotta SHOW guys where to go."

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/35176/lakers-defense-remains-unreliable

It's not about us being old. It's about us not knowing what we're supposed to be doing. We expend way more energy than we should because our habits are poor and we have no chemistry on that end of the floor.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby borri on Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:42 pm

Agree to disagree.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby dj vitus on Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:03 pm

borri wrote:Agree to disagree.

I think it's a combination of both. :man1:

There is still hope, though. A lot of team defense is mental, and just knowing/anticipating where to be at the right time.

Brad Miller, for example, was one of the slowest and least athletic guys on the planet, but he knew where he needed to be with his arms straight up to prevent easy layups. Not every play, of course, but enough to frustrate other guys thinking they could just barge in the lane at will. He even gave Shaq problems in his heyday.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby revgen on Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:46 pm

^Excellent example.

Age affects shooting more than it affects team defense. In 2008, the wretched old Spurs lost to us in 5 games in the WCF despite holding us to 93 ppg for the series. And it wasn't just because Ginobli got hurt. It was because those old geezers couldn't hit wide open shots. They kept bricking and bricking and bricking. It was so bad that Popovic during Q&A with a TNT sideline reporter asked if Doug Collins could suit up because they needed somebody who could make a shot. They weren't too old to rotate and help.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby JGC on Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:24 pm

borri wrote:
revgen wrote:^You're talking about 1 vs 1. It's not about 1 vs 1. It's about team defense. Talking, helping, communicating.


I get you. But the problem is, we help. We are forced to help. Helping taxes the defense. Creates open looks. That's why our team defense is second to last in opp ast/to ratio.

Guys get to the paint, dish off for open looks. Miss a shot and get offensive rebounds. That right there has been a microcosm of our D this year.

Yes, we suck at help D. But forcing us to scramble to help, takes energy from all players. We are old. We play a fast pace on O. It just is not the right mix.

Look, I am not saying we suck only because we are old. What I am saying is, it plays a large part of our defensive downfall.


Helping should tax the defense less than trying to play everyone straight up. That's the whole point of help defense.

I might be inclined to agree with the age argument if we were so old we struggled to also put points on the board, but amazing we have the energy for that.

Age/miles is certainly a factor, but sits way behind things like desire, chemistry, coaching, etc.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby JLaker17 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:09 pm

One thing is for sure, they better start learning quick if there is something that can fix this.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby borri on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:26 am

JGC wrote:Helping should tax the defense less than trying to play everyone straight up. That's the whole point of help defense.

I might be inclined to agree with the age argument if we were so old we struggled to also put points on the board, but amazing we have the energy for that.

Age/miles is certainly a factor, but sits way behind things like desire, chemistry, coaching, etc.


How is helping less taxing that playing everyone straight up? There's one ball. When your guy doesn't have it, you rest, unless he's cutting. Not all 5 guys move at the same time.

The guy defending the ball gets is tougher sure. But that's one guy. Now imagine, help D. Not only is your assigment your guy, you have to be constantly alert to move to help. You could end up running around helping. This applies to all 5 defenders.

Helping is a nice concept idea, just like assists. But it's not that simple. There's helping, and there's too much helping.

What is too much helping? This occurs when you have 3 defensive liabilities on the floor in Nash, Kobe and Pau. That's 3 turnstyle defenders collapsing your defense, forcing guys to rotate all over the place. The more you rotate to more chances an error can occur....like a wide open J or giving up an offensive rebound.

And yes, Nash is old. Kobe is old. Pau is really old. Those 3 is the problem with our D. You are telling me that if Kobe, Nash and Pau were 5 years younger, we'd still be this bad on D? No way dude. No freakin' way.

Guys coming off the bench to replace them, sadly aren't any better, now that Hill is done.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby BDG on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:31 am

Can we all at least agree that we shouldn't be nearly as bad as we are on defense and that communication, a system and practice would go a long way in improving our D?
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby lakersin4 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:38 am

I think Nash knows D'antoni's system well enough that we shouldn't even be practicing offense.. We really messed up not bringing in Nate McMillan as a defensive assistant.. Would love to see 100% of practices in his hands.. Nash can run the system without a practice, Kobe can play Kobe ball without a practice, etc. Kobe/Pau/Dwight/Ron managed to lead us to 100+ PPG without any set system under Bickerstaff.. We have the offensive talent to beat teams playing streetball.. We just have to defend.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby borri on Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:51 am

BDG wrote:Can we all at least agree that we shouldn't be nearly as bad as we are on defense and that communication, a system and practice would go a long way in improving our D?


I agree to an extent. System, communication, practice can only do so much. You can't mask THREE defensive liabilities on the floor at the same time. Not only are they bad man defenders, they are also bad help defenders. Why? if your legs don't respond like you want them to, ain't nothing you can do.

Nash and Pau try. It's obvious when watching games. It's just their bodies don't go as fast as they want it to go. This applies to man D and help D.

Look at Fisher's last days as a Laker. Dude tried. He TRIED. Was all heart out there. But, he was just too slow to be effective. That's just what happens when you grow old. Unavoidable.
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Re: The one, the only DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM thread

Postby phoenixrisingla on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:04 pm

Bump

Our guards can't handle the P&R.
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