The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby Finwë on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:42 pm

therealdeal wrote:I seriously watched a completely different game than you.

Pau showed on almost every screen which is what he's coached to do. The opposing player then passes to his man (not his fault) and someone else is supposed to rotate to cover for him. He is then supposed to rotate to that person's man.

Unfortunately, we weren't seeing the secondary rotation for much of the night. That left Gasol on an island. There was a stretch when someone WOULD rotate over and the defense looked great. But it was only for a possession or two and then the offense adjusted. That's not Pau's fault.

It's not just "he showed on screens" and that's it. His showing was very ineffective, including bad timing and not covering enough ground.
I don't know how we are so far apart on this, it was just so clear to me. A ton of users were talking about Pau's lack of effort in the GD thread too..
I'm out for tonight, maybe we can pick this up tomorrow, though I honestly don't want to keep thinking about this game. I feel kinda sick.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby BDG on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:44 pm

^ This. Pau showed on screens but he either would show too hard or not show enough.

Worthy even broke it down on video after the game.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby therealdeal on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:47 pm

I don't see why anyone would feel sick after this loss. Besides the turnovers, this team wins this game. I think that they showed great strides in their play tonight. If they keep progressing along that line, we'll see great things very soon. Outside of the 3rd quarter, our team looked just fine.

If anything I'm relieved by this game. This game showed me a far different team than the one we saw struggle last night.

As for Pau, yeah I don't see it. He showed on screens, forcing the ball back towards his man who would just pop out. Is that Pau's fault? Not really. He was coached to do that. I don't remember Lillard beating around Pau very often when he showed. Especially late.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby therealdeal on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:48 pm

BDG wrote:^ This. Pau showed on screens but he either would show too hard or not show enough.

Worthy even broke it down on video after the game.


But that's not really Pau, that's coaching. They told him to show on the screens, he'd show and then they'd just dump it to Aldridge for an open jumper. If he didn't show hard, they beat him around the edge and get at a layup or a dunk. That's systematic, not necessarily Pau's fault. Someone has to rotate to help him, namely Howard.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby BDG on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:55 pm

therealdeal wrote:
BDG wrote:^ This. Pau showed on screens but he either would show too hard or not show enough.

Worthy even broke it down on video after the game.


But that's not really Pau, that's coaching. They told him to show on the screens, he'd show and then they'd just dump it to Aldridge for an open jumper. If he didn't show hard, they beat him around the edge and get at a layup or a dunk. That's systematic, not necessarily Pau's fault. Someone has to rotate to help him, namely Howard.
Gotta disagree that it's on the coaching. And I'm one of Brown's most vocal critics here.

Example: on Batum's drive for the two handed dunk -- Pau's gotta cut him off early near the top of the key. Instead, he doesn't show enough and Howard has to guard both Batum and his own man.

As a result, he's put in a bad situation and late to help. so Batum gets the easy dunk.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby thisbjgz on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:02 am

Miami went 9-8 when they first played together in 2011. Maybe perhaps we can play at their level with time? :man3: :freak2:
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby therealdeal on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:12 am

BDG wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
BDG wrote:^ This. Pau showed on screens but he either would show too hard or not show enough.

Worthy even broke it down on video after the game.


But that's not really Pau, that's coaching. They told him to show on the screens, he'd show and then they'd just dump it to Aldridge for an open jumper. If he didn't show hard, they beat him around the edge and get at a layup or a dunk. That's systematic, not necessarily Pau's fault. Someone has to rotate to help him, namely Howard.
Gotta disagree that it's on the coaching. And I'm one of Brown's most vocal critics here.

Example: on Batum's drive for the two handed dunk -- Pau's gotta cut him off early near the top of the key. Instead, he doesn't show enough and Howard has to guard both Batum and his own man.

As a result, he's put in a bad situation and late to help. so Batum gets the easy dunk.


That's only one play though. There was plenty of examples of Pau showing hard and forcing Lillard back into defense. We remember that play because it resulted in a score and a dynamic one at that. But Pau did a generally good job of re-directing the ball off of picks.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby lakersyunowin on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:37 am

okok enough sourpussing on brown (for tonight :man10: )

optimism: dwight hit 15-19 free throws. (not that i'm expecting 79% on the season)
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby wcsoldier81 on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:41 am

-We are shooting well from the field .
- I have International League Pass so I can watch games of teams who don't suck
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby revgen on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:45 am

We shot 49FG% against the Mavs.

We shot 50FG% against the Blazers.

We outrebounded the Blazers and the Mavs.

Our current problems are related to TO's, defense, and FT's.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby ben_ready on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:26 am

We suck haha, I think it's time we give morris and djo a shot. Blake is buttocks Morris is better regardless what y'all say.I'm tired of the choir boys. We needpeople who can go on a tear and some one other than ron and howard who loves defending. Now let's bring in the mother lover himself mr west.if not give the kids a shot. Yell™
great "scott"! you're too "green", and not "worthy" enough to taste the "magic" "kareem"(cream)/You flew the "coop" "west" so don't fuss just drive the "buss"(bus),while i eat my "chick" n' "stu"(chicken stew) in the aisle,"back 2 back" with "riles" my favorite laker squad
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby Scnottaken on Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:06 am

ben_ready wrote:We suck haha, I think it's time we give morris and djo a shot. Blake is buttocks Morris is better regardless what y'all say.I'm tired of the choir boys. We needpeople who can go on a tear and some one other than ron and howard who loves defending. Now let's bring in the mother lover himself mr west.if not give the kids a shot. Yell™

I want to hear "Beat LA" chants at a Clipper vs Laker game
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby FabFourLakers on Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:25 am

Somehow this thread made me feel a lot better....
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby Snakell Beast on Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:56 am

OK, HERE IS WHY I AM VERY ENCOURAGED AFTER TONIGHT'S GAME.

1. Dwight's new free throw form will result in him shooting at least 65% for the season, if not higher, thus rendering hack a dwight moot and upping Dwight's scoring average to the mid 20's (he is averaging 26 so far in this young season)

2. We more than doubled up the opponent tonight in the turnover department, 25 to 12. The Blazers scored 28 points off of our 25 turnovers, we scored 18 off of their 12...a 10 point margin in favor of the Blazers which was, coincidentally, the margin of victory in the game for Portland. If we merely match or even beat the blazers in the turnover battle, we win the game. Turnovers will be less of a problem as Dwight and Kobe get healthier.

3. We are going to be monsters on the glass.

4. Even with the usual Portland rose garden 15+ minute referee charge in favor of the Blazers, it was STILL an 8 point game with a minute to go...all things considered, that IS progress. Last season, even late in the year, a referee exhibition like that would have cost us a 20-30 point loss at the Rose Garden. Plus, if you looked at the Blazers, they were never really looking comfortable with that 19 point lead, because they knew we could click at any moment and easily erase the deficit, which we would have done with 3 more game time minutes.

5. Saw some MUCH BIGGER signs of the offensive juggernaut team we are expecting our of this group. When the team learns when and how to put each other in the best spots without turning the ball over 25 times a game, we are going to be UNGUARDABLE. For God's sake, we scored 106 points with 25 turnovers. Cut that down to 10-12 turnovers (or god forbid even single digits, like most championship teams do in a good game) and we score closer to 120-130, and hold Portland to 15+ less points.

6. Steve Blake is DEFINITELY benefitting from playing with Steve Nash in practice. 6 assists last night, 7 points, 3 boards, 3 assists and 2 steals (3-4 FGs) WITH NO TURNOVERS filling in for the injured Nash tonight. If Steve Blake continues to pick up all of these good habits from Nash, we may not need a replacement back-up PG. I am seriously kind of impressed so far...Blake has even started learning the probe dribble. I am excited about this.

7. Dwight is going to be able to foul out opposing team's front court players, especially as our turnovers decrease and we can run more SET defenses, resulting in fewer desperation fouls from Pau/Dwight.

8. Kobe is going to have a career high FG% this season. He is getting so many open looks and easy shots, and it will only get easier for him as he gets healthier and the team becomes less TO prone and more cohesive offensively.

9. Our offensive movement looked good, even with the 25 turnovers. Our Princeton sets AND our traditional sets looked much crisper and more fluid tonight. There were still some glaring missteps, but I can see the offense evolving, and with a better more coherent offense that turns the ball over less, our defense will face less and less shots per game for the opponent, and far fewer disorganized fast break coverages, which will make our Defense MUCH better going forward.

10. Pau is averaging 19.5ppg and 11rpg, 4apg and 1.5bpg so far this year, and there is NO reason to think he won't continue that trend as the team gets BETTER offensively AND defensively.

All in all, I am actually VERY EXCITED after some of the improvements I saw tonight. Honestly, the refs (and Steve Nash's injury) won the game for the Blazers tonight. A lot of the poor play that caused the loss, including turnovers, the Blazers free points at the line and the tentative defense by our starters (with Kobe/Dwight/MWP having 5 fouls) was due to the blatantly obvious home cooking the Blazers received from the referees.

Stay tuned...we are headed in the right direction. Keep the faith, Lakers fans. Brighter days ARE on the Horizon...days so bright, wearing shades won't cut it. We'll be wearing 1 million sunblock and still get sunburnt, plus we'll have to avert our eyes from making direct eye contact with the Lakers offense, for fear of going blind from the brilliant glare...just wait about 10-15 more games....
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby Finwë on Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:54 am

therealdeal wrote:I don't see why anyone would feel sick after this loss. Besides the turnovers, this team wins this game. I think that they showed great strides in their play tonight. If they keep progressing along that line, we'll see great things very soon. Outside of the 3rd quarter, our team looked just fine.

If anything I'm relieved by this game. This game showed me a far different team than the one we saw struggle last night.

As for Pau, yeah I don't see it. He showed on screens, forcing the ball back towards his man who would just pop out. Is that Pau's fault? Not really. He was coached to do that. I don't remember Lillard beating around Pau very often when he showed. Especially late.

I know, I know, in fact I did post something similar in the optimism thread..
Still, I'm just a sore loser lol, I can't take our team being 0-2, can't take the possibility of being 0-3 after friday.. Nash's injury, even if not really serious.. UGH. I just hate seeing all of this talent not being able to dominate, I hate that we played Kobe, Howard & Pau 40 minutes and we lost by 10..
What was awful about this game in particular was the amount of turnovers we had and the fact that Brown doesn't get that you don't take out 4 starters and put in 4 bench players at once. SASHA PAVLOVIC had a 7-0 run in that 3rd quarter. Also, I absolutely hated that we wasted a very good and rare FT shooting night from Howard.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby Finwë on Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:58 am

Lol now Snakell Beast is the glass half full guy. Great to see it :jam2:
Good points btw
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby raviator on Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:13 am

I know this will sound a bit like sour grapes but in all fairness Rose Garden has never been kind to the Lakers when Portland has at least halfway decent team. If memory serves me correctly even during our championship years we had a hard time winning there so even though this lose sucks, I'm not too surprised. Friday is at least a home game for the Lakers albeit against a very good Clipper team but I'm hoping some home cooking will serve the team some good. I'm hoping....
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby The Rock on Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:13 am

https://twitter.com/ESPN_Numbers/status/264019309314048000

Only six teams have ever won the NBA Finals after starting 0-2, but 3 of those teams were the Lakers.


And I believe we won the championship in 81/82 after firing Paul Westhead about 6-7 games in the season and hiring Pat Riley
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby therealdeal on Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:50 am

Finwë wrote:I know, I know, in fact I did post something similar in the optimism thread..
Still, I'm just a sore loser lol, I can't take our team being 0-2, can't take the possibility of being 0-3 after friday.. Nash's injury, even if not really serious.. UGH. I just hate seeing all of this talent not being able to dominate, I hate that we played Kobe, Howard & Pau 40 minutes and we lost by 10..
What was awful about this game in particular was the amount of turnovers we had and the fact that Brown doesn't get that you don't take out 4 starters and put in 4 bench players at once. SASHA PAVLOVIC had a 7-0 run in that 3rd quarter. Also, I absolutely hated that we wasted a very good and rare FT shooting night from Howard.

No I get being frustrated. If you weren't frustrated (if we all were just fine) things would be wrong. An 0-2 start is never ideal, especially with the sky high expectations from this team.

But I think there was a LOT of good to take from this game in comparison to the opener. We lost against a team that got some crazy love from the officials in the 2nd half. And if we cut down our turnovers, we win that game by 10 points. 23 turnovers turned into 28 points. That's the lead. If we reduce that to 12-15 turnovers, it's probably closer to 10-12 points off of them. That's the lead right there.

Howard looked fantastic. And the thing with his free throws is that it didn't look like chance. Those shots had good arc on them and really had a soft touch to them. I'm not saying I expect him to shoot that well, but thinking his percentage could get closer to the 65 mark than the 50 mark isn't crazy. Not if he continues shooting that way.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:55 am

The offense looked better last night than in the Dallas game. It looked like there was more ball and man movement, more cutting, etc. Nash looked aggressive in the 1st half implmenting it; it's still a work in progress, but it is getting better.

Another thing, Meeks can flat out ball. We need to see him more, please.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby CaCHooKa Man on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:38 pm

the lakers are undefeated in november
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby pound4pound1 on Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:02 pm

this is all gonna be so awesome at the beginning of the championship DVD...we're all gonna be like 'ohhh yea...we DID have a crap start'
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby Ariza3 on Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:10 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:OK, HERE IS WHY I AM VERY ENCOURAGED AFTER TONIGHT'S GAME.


5. Saw some MUCH BIGGER signs of the offensive juggernaut team we are expecting our of this group. When the team learns when and how to put each other in the best spots without turning the ball over 25 times a game, we are going to be UNGUARDABLE. For God's sake, we scored 106 points with 25 turnovers. Cut that down to 10-12 turnovers (or god forbid even single digits, like most championship teams do in a good game) and we score closer to 120-130, and hold Portland to 15+ less points.

6. Steve Blake is DEFINITELY benefitting from playing with Steve Nash in practice. 6 assists last night, 7 points, 3 boards, 3 assists and 2 steals (3-4 FGs) WITH NO TURNOVERS filling in for the injured Nash tonight. If Steve Blake continues to pick up all of these good habits from Nash, we may not need a replacement back-up PG. I am seriously kind of impressed so far...Blake has even started learning the probe dribble. I am excited about this.

8. Kobe is going to have a career high FG% this season. He is getting so many open looks and easy shots, and it will only get easier for him as he gets healthier and the team becomes less TO prone and more cohesive offensively.


I'm very impressed with Blake's play so far aswell. Especially him picking up on Nash's excellent probing...Blake's still picking up his dribble but far less than the past years. They guy has had 10 assists and 1TO over 2 games and although hasnt shot too much, he hasnt missed many of the shots he has taken. I believe his IQ is really showing as he's learning quicker than many other players. Hope he keeps it up and plays more like he did towards the end of the 4th...if he does that all game and stays aggressive he'll be agood backup to Nash...that crossover then assist to Pau was nice. very nice. didnt even know he could do that.

Kobe has also impressed me so far (as usual) but more so. He's not forcing anything (except the last minutes bc of frustration in the refs not calling ANYTHING for him...unbelievable blatant fouls not called)..But besides that hes been getting in his spots and shooting very well. Also cutting more to the hoop as thats what he can do now with the new offense. Metta Dwight and Nash have been finding him on those cuts leading to easy layups or even a dunk like last night which was nice to see again.

I was frustrated last night bc of the turnovers more than anything...they were really stupid sometimes last night and others was really just Portland's D so you gotta give credit where its due. but i would say more than half were all dumb mistakes or thinking a guy is there when hes not yet. Everyone looks a step slow...dwight for obvious reasons is one step slow on O and D. there was a play where kobe and a nice little P&R going with Dwight and had a nice little wrap around bounce pass as Dwight cut to the hoop but was exactly one step too slow. If he had that step it would have been a sick dunk that were all accustomed to seeing from him. Also on D everyone is a little slow on rotations. Dwight especially as he had one block that was a goaltending call but normally would have been a sick block.

I feel in time the team will together be in better shape and have the defense down. Its all about effort and fighting hard for the whole game..give up for 1 second and you'll be late and they'll get a easy layup/shot or even an and-1. The offense has been actually good. shooting 50% and out rebounding them by a lot. it was the turnovers, defensive rotations, and lack of calls that cost us the game imo...even with 25 turnovers we were still pretty close...if our defensive rotations were a little quicker we prob would have won with those turnovers still. Teams around the league are turning the ball over 20+ times and winning bc of their defense. Ours was supposed to cary us until our offense got better but so far its just the opposite. Our offense even with turnovers is keeping us in games and our defense (or lack of) is costing us games imo.

Once our defense picks up, which really means once Dwight is healthy and has his speed back, i think we'll be able to win games and still turn the ball over that much...just until we have this offense down. I read that the Lakers are only using P&R 6% of the time which is last in the league...that cant be on accident. That reassures me that we're purposely not running it bc we want to get the princeton down first as it is much harder than running P&R with Nash bc thats gunna be simple for ALL of our players to do with him handling ball.

Cant wait until our defense picks up and we limit our turnovers (even to like 15 would be an improvement and prob get us some wins) thats how good our team is/can be. We can turn the ball over that much and still win just on our offense and defense alone. just gotta get dwight back in shape and put more effort on D. I have faith that we'll be okay but it wont be for a while and a lot of rumors and haters are gunna come up. Mid season is when regular laker fans will be happy. but real ones can be happy after that game. there was a lot of good things...as well as bad, but there was some light at the end of the tunnel so to speak.

Limit turnovers and quicker defensive rotations, and more effort on D and we'll be okay.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby therealdeal on Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:26 pm

Finwë wrote:Lol now Snakell Beast is the glass half full guy. Great to see it :jam2:
Good points btw

Snakell killed this thread! :bow: :bow: :jam2: :jam2:
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Re: The Optimistic Thread!

Postby dj vitus on Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:41 pm

Those 25 TOs, a number of them were B.S. offensive foul calls so that number should go down (hopefully) as the season progresses.
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