The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby gcclaker on Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:02 am

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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby Aonex on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:19 am

You know, considering what a nightmare of a season we had last year with injuries, coupled with the severe chemistry issues now coming to light, I'm thinking we'll actually have a better season this year if we stay relatively healthy.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby SK8 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:17 pm

1.Amnesty Metta
2.Bring Farmar
3.Bring Nick Young
4.Bring Caveman
5.Diva12 is out of town


Lamar is on his way, and i hope CDR will show what he can do in summer league, so we can find place for him on roster, dude is 6-7 210lbs, he can play at three easily.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby scissors on Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:25 pm

I have a good feeling we'll get surprised by the Lakers in a good way this season.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby pound4pound1 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:30 am

as bad as it was a week or so ago, i'm actually looking forward to seeing and rooting for this team next season


when IS that first pre-season game in Bakersfield? i cant wait :jam2:
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby Ariza3 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:15 am

Summer League game vs. the Cavs @ 5pm on TWCSN


guess we'll see what CDR can do...again.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby gcclaker on Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:21 am

pound4pound1 wrote:as bad as it was a week or so ago, i'm actually looking forward to seeing and rooting for this team next season

when IS that first pre-season game in Bakersfield? i cant wait :jam2:

Lower expectations... Actually, the public perception I sense is that this crew will be downright horrid. It will take time integrating the pieces but I think the Lakers will be more than competitive.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby pound4pound1 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:24 am

gcclaker wrote:
pound4pound1 wrote:as bad as it was a week or so ago, i'm actually looking forward to seeing and rooting for this team next season

when IS that first pre-season game in Bakersfield? i cant wait :jam2:

Lower expectations... Actually, the public perception I sense is that this crew will be downright horrid. It will take time integrating the pieces but I think the Lakers will be more than competitive.



MDA has his 'full' training camp...once we fill up the roster, i wanna see what they look like


no title hopes, its weird...but i just wanna see this team run
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby gcclaker on Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:36 am

^@pound. Nash will be the BIG catalyst while 24 is out if at all. Young will benefit from him. Farmar loves to run too. The pick and roll with Gasol could be effective too if the latter can regain a semblance of his old form. If Odom can be picked up, he would be a good fit provided of course he is in shape and his head is screwed on. Right now, the need that needs to be addressed is an additional swing at the 3.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby pound4pound1 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:40 am

gcclaker wrote:^@pound. Nash will be the BIG catalyst while 24 is out if at all. Young will benefit from him. Farmar loves to run too. The pick and roll with Gasol could be effective too if the latter can regain a semblance of his old form. If Odom can be picked up, he would be a good fit provided of course he is in shape and his head is screwed on. Right now, the need that needs to be addressed is an additional swing at the 3.



agreed, GC...this will be all on Nash..it's his show and that's why im eager to see what we have...no more cancer on the team...he and Pau will work great together and Kaman just might show up as his old self.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:26 pm

pound4pound1 wrote:
gcclaker wrote:^@pound. Nash will be the BIG catalyst while 24 is out if at all. Young will benefit from him. Farmar loves to run too. The pick and roll with Gasol could be effective too if the latter can regain a semblance of his old form. If Odom can be picked up, he would be a good fit provided of course he is in shape and his head is screwed on. Right now, the need that needs to be addressed is an additional swing at the 3.



agreed, GC...this will be all on Nash..it's his show and that's why im eager to see what we have...no more cancer on the team...he and Pau will work great together and Kaman just might show up as his old self.

I honestly think this team is just going to really try to be the Suns. Efficient offense, quick, and then defensively s***. :man10:

But get a lineup of Farmar/Meeks (or Blake)/Young/Hill out there and you've got speed and scoring in transition for sure. I think that'll be nice to see again after having a slow starting five AND a slow bench for the last few years.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby Weezy on Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:58 pm

I never felt like Nash was himself last season, injury being the biggest reason, but also he never looked super comfortable or in control like I was used to seeing. I realize he's going to be 40, but I expect him to have a better season if he can stay healthy. Having Blake AND Farmar should allow us to keep his minutes down, so I'm expecting him to look more comfortable and like himself this season, with a full camp with 'Antoni and having to go through camp with no Kobe, just again hope he can stay healthy.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby LakerFanIam on Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:15 am

Farmar, Kaman, Young & Johnson... Our team is already much deeper than it has been in years.

These are all great, much better than expected signings. Great job as usual, Mitch. :bow:
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:35 am

When Dwight left, I was down. Not because Dwight the person left, but because A person left. A person left us in the prime of their career. It was a first and it was... sobering. It made me feel like maybe we really ARE a sinking ship that's in for tough times for years to come. Maybe we're suddenly the most undesirable place out there? Maybe the mystique of Los Angeles really is gone?

I know the signings we've had aren't anything spectacular. They're not jaw dropping. They're not even likely to mean much in the end of what our team will accomplish.

But it's been great to see players come here for less than they're worth. It's been great to hear the stories of how much these particular players love the Lakers and how much they wanted to be here. It's really kept my head clear of all of this "the Lakers are doomed" nonsense. Sure, it's just role players and projects, but the Lakers are still the Lakers. We're going to be fine. Whether that's in a year or two or three or five, we'll be fine.

As for this season, I'm really excited about getting to watch some young players again. I'm excited to see a bunch of young faces that we'll be able to watch develop and watch grow. It's going to be interesting again and I'm hopeful that the young guys can be successful so that they can learn. It's going to be fun.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby nthydro on Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:44 am

I'm definitely excited for this upcoming season. I think if we stay healthy we can have a more successful season than the last. Not really saying much considering last season was one of the worst :man10:
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby Magic Skywalker on Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:50 am

81 page, 81 points. I'm optimistic because we are the Lakers and algo because we have Kobe....

Ok, let's forget about that typical reason for a moment, just wanted to make a reference to the number of pages....


Honestly speaking, you'd have to put a blindfold to say that the 2013-2014 roster is better than the 2012-2013 roster. I really think those who think otherwise should really face it and admit it. We might not like Dwight Howard now that he was THE guy that has not chosen the Lakers even having more money, but it is true that Howard is a great talent in this league, even if he's not close to Shaq or Kareem. Dwight does make an impact with his game. Also, Clark did a terrific job when we gave him a chance, and while Jamison had his up-and-downs, he was very good for a minimum salary player. Our 2012-2013 roster was not good, it was great... or at least, it should have.

We lost Dwight Howard, Earl Clark, Metta World Peace and Antawn Jamison. Worst thing about that should be that that's a lot of defense we lost out there. That group of players is supposed to be clearly better than Wesley Johnson, Nick Young, Chris Kaman and Jordan Farmar.

But hey, I'm in the optimistic thread, and I'm posting all this bullpoop? Well, being optimistic doesn't mean to forget about reality, and having reality in mind, I want to express my optimism that may or may not go well.

The first reason I'm honestly optimistic is because we don't have Darius Morris and Chris Duhon. They just aren't on the team, which means that no matters what happens, they won't be getting playing time. Remember that time last season when our point guard rotation was Duhon and Morris? That fact that that won't happen really eases my heart. Not having that is a great improvement.

Another reason I'm optimistic is because I don't think we'll be worse with injuries, at least. Last year was a nightmare, an nightmare which seems to have no ending. While I do expect to have some injuries, I don't think it will be as bad as last year, and this is HUGE. People seem to be underestimating how good a healthy core of Kobe, Nash and Pau would be. Even if we don't have a better roster, we rarely saw the complete roster, actually, we were lucky if we had half of its core semi-healthy.

Related with my previous point, we're now younger, we're a lot younger. After some years, we finally have a group of young players, and even better, we have young players who really wants to play here. We will be mad when Farmar and Young start shooting bricks watching just the basket, but they should also provide energy, and while not being great defenders, they can at least put some good effort on it. Also, we have Kobe AND Nash to control the pace of the game and the young guys if they start kind of losing control.

While I loved Metta and what he did for this team, he was getting worse every year. He has a good, well earned, reputation on defense, but truth is he didn't defend that much last season save for some specific moments. Most importantly, he really killed our offense A LOT. He missed way too many open shots, which led to opponent's defense to almost completely ignore him, and that, of course, made things more difficult to the rest of the team, specially to Kobe, who pretty much always was the one who got an extra defender on him. Even more, him getting the ball usually killed every ball movement, he took horrible shots and made awful moves with his "dribbling".

As we all know, losing Dwight should improve the team chemestry a lot. Also they'll want to prove they don't need Dwight, I'm pretty sure they will because I think almost no one on this team really liked Dwight, or so it seems. Also, while we did lose Dwight Howard, he never was much of "Dwight Howard" with us, and more than injury-related, I think it was a thing of mentality, save for some occasions, his head just wasn't in the game, and while he was still one of the better centers (that's how talented he is), he was far from a dominant player... he really didn't make that much in either side of the court on a consistent basis. True, I don't expect Pau to defend better, actually, I expect worse, but I do think the damage won't be as big as it is made out to be.

While Kobe loves the pressure, I think it will be good for our team that, for the first time in years, we have almost no pressure on our team. We're not even expected to make the Playoffs by many. I think this can really fuel some of our players. We know play with a "show them they're wrong" mentality, not trying to live to some very high expectations. It's usually easier in the first case.

Yes, I also would have loved to have Phil Jackson, and there are A LOT of coaches I'd pick over Mike D'Antoni, but it's also true that Mike D'Antoni is not just an idiot who pretends to know basketball. He is still an upgrade from Mike Brown, and honestly speaking, he was put on a VERY difficult situation last season. He was given an injury-ridden team that had an awful chemistry situation and wasn't good at running the offense he's more used to run (sorry Jim, but that's on you, not on the guy who accepted the job). Mike D'Antoni didn't make a great job improving this things, but even if it took some time, he did began to adjust the offense to his roster, and you could see that in the big improvement we had. Things start clicking little by little until injuries decided to give one final devastating blow. While I don't expect D'Antoni to be a Greg Popovich, he should do a fairly decent job having time to prepare beforehand and with the experience gained from last season

Related with the Dwight Howard and the Mike D'Antoni point, I do expect a better season from Pau Gasol. While he might not be a 2010 Pau Gasol, he should do a much better job. At the end of the season, when he was finally healthier, we could see that Mike D'Antoni was starting to use him a little bit better. Without Dwight, using Pau well will be a lot easier. Pau is a GREAT help offensively when he's confortable. While he can't jump over an ant, he still have great post moves and we all know he's an incredible passer.

Sure, our defense will be awful, but it's not like it wasn't awful last year. I don't think it'll be much worse, honestly. Actually, I'll be the weird guy who thinks it might actually improve a little bit. While our defenders are worse, I think they will put more effort on D than players last year. We all know that most of the time, effort just wasn't there on D. Guys like Wesley Johnson should really help with this.

I think comparisons between this roster and the one from last year might become a good lesson of why having a good NBA 2K roster doesn't mean a team is better. Our roster might be worse, but I really feel this team could be better.

Oh, and this might not be optimistic for some of you, but Lakers don't tank. They just don't do it. Last time we got a franchise player via draft (with a pick of our own) was Jerry West in 1960, and even then we made the Playoffs the year before (though, admittedly, with a terrible record). I don't know how many of the guys here are from the Lakers because they're from L.A., but a lot of us are not even american, so we didn't become Lakers fans because they're from L.A., we become Lakers fans because of their great players and traditions and, most of all, we became Lakers fans for life because of that winning mentality, because they are the ONE team that never tanks, that always give all they got in a season, even if they don't have much to give. Because of this, a lot of people from very very faraway have become even more Lakers fans than some fans from L.A. Let's not lose that mentality thinking about tanking, It just isn't us.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby Zibi on Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:13 am

Magic Skywalker wrote:81 page, 81 points. I'm optimistic because we are the Lakers and algo because we have Kobe....

Ok, let's forget about that typical reason for a moment, just wanted to make a reference to the number of pages....


Honestly speaking, you'd have to put a blindfold to say that the 2013-2014 roster is better than the 2012-2013 roster. I really think those who think otherwise should really face it and admit it. We might not like Dwight Howard now that he was THE guy that has not chosen the Lakers even having more money, but it is true that Howard is a great talent in this league, even if he's not close to Shaq or Kareem. Dwight does make an impact with his game. Also, Clark did a terrific job when we gave him a chance, and while Jamison had his up-and-downs, he was very good for a minimum salary player. Our 2012-2013 roster was not good, it was great... or at least, it should have.

We lost Dwight Howard, Earl Clark, Metta World Peace and Antawn Jamison. Worst thing about that should be that that's a lot of defense we lost out there. That group of players is supposed to be clearly better than Wesley Johnson, Nick Young, Chris Kaman and Jordan Farmar.

But hey, I'm in the optimistic thread, and I'm posting all this bullpoop? Well, being optimistic doesn't mean to forget about reality, and having reality in mind, I want to express my optimism that may or may not go well.

The first reason I'm honestly optimistic is because we don't have Darius Morris and Chris Duhon. They just aren't on the team, which means that no matters what happens, they won't be getting playing time. Remember that time last season when our point guard rotation was Duhon and Morris? That fact that that won't happen really eases my heart. Not having that is a great improvement.

Another reason I'm optimistic is because I don't think we'll be worse with injuries, at least. Last year was a nightmare, an nightmare which seems to have no ending. While I do expect to have some injuries, I don't think it will be as bad as last year, and this is HUGE. People seem to be underestimating how good a healthy core of Kobe, Nash and Pau would be. Even if we don't have a better roster, we rarely saw the complete roster, actually, we were lucky if we had half of its core semi-healthy.

Related with my previous point, we're now younger, we're a lot younger. After some years, we finally have a group of young players, and even better, we have young players who really wants to play here. We will be mad when Farmar and Young start shooting bricks watching just the basket, but they should also provide energy, and while not being great defenders, they can at least put some good effort on it. Also, we have Kobe AND Nash to control the pace of the game and the young guys if they start kind of losing control.

While I loved Metta and what he did for this team, he was getting worse every year. He has a good, well earned, reputation on defense, but truth is he didn't defend that much last season save for some specific moments. Most importantly, he really killed our offense A LOT. He missed way too many open shots, which led to opponent's defense to almost completely ignore him, and that, of course, made things more difficult to the rest of the team, specially to Kobe, who pretty much always was the one who got an extra defender on him. Even more, him getting the ball usually killed every ball movement, he took horrible shots and made awful moves with his "dribbling".

As we all know, losing Dwight should improve the team chemestry a lot. Also they'll want to prove they don't need Dwight, I'm pretty sure they will because I think almost no one on this team really liked Dwight, or so it seems. Also, while we did lose Dwight Howard, he never was much of "Dwight Howard" with us, and more than injury-related, I think it was a thing of mentality, save for some occasions, his head just wasn't in the game, and while he was still one of the better centers (that's how talented he is), he was far from a dominant player... he really didn't make that much in either side of the court on a consistent basis. True, I don't expect Pau to defend better, actually, I expect worse, but I do think the damage won't be as big as it is made out to be.

While Kobe loves the pressure, I think it will be good for our team that, for the first time in years, we have almost no pressure on our team. We're not even expected to make the Playoffs by many. I think this can really fuel some of our players. We know play with a "show them they're wrong" mentality, not trying to live to some very high expectations. It's usually easier in the first case.

Yes, I also would have loved to have Phil Jackson, and there are A LOT of coaches I'd pick over Mike D'Antoni, but it's also true that Mike D'Antoni is not just an idiot who pretends to know basketball. He is still an upgrade from Mike Brown, and honestly speaking, he was put on a VERY difficult situation last season. He was given an injury-ridden team that had an awful chemistry situation and wasn't good at running the offense he's more used to run (sorry Jim, but that's on you, not on the guy who accepted the job). Mike D'Antoni didn't make a great job improving this things, but even if it took some time, he did began to adjust the offense to his roster, and you could see that in the big improvement we had. Things start clicking little by little until injuries decided to give one final devastating blow. While I don't expect D'Antoni to be a Greg Popovich, he should do a fairly decent job having time to prepare beforehand and with the experience gained from last season

Related with the Dwight Howard and the Mike D'Antoni point, I do expect a better season from Pau Gasol. While he might not be a 2010 Pau Gasol, he should do a much better job. At the end of the season, when he was finally healthier, we could see that Mike D'Antoni was starting to use him a little bit better. Without Dwight, using Pau well will be a lot easier. Pau is a GREAT help offensively when he's confortable. While he can't jump over an ant, he still have great post moves and we all know he's an incredible passer.

Sure, our defense will be awful, but it's not like it wasn't awful last year. I don't think it'll be much worse, honestly. Actually, I'll be the weird guy who thinks it might actually improve a little bit. While our defenders are worse, I think they will put more effort on D than players last year. We all know that most of the time, effort just wasn't there on D. Guys like Wesley Johnson should really help with this.

I think comparisons between this roster and the one from last year might become a good lesson of why having a good NBA 2K roster doesn't mean a team is better. Our roster might be worse, but I really feel this team could be better.

Oh, and this might not be optimistic for some of you, but Lakers don't tank. They just don't do it. Last time we got a franchise player via draft (with a pick of our own) was Jerry West in 1960, and even then we made the Playoffs the year before (though, admittedly, with a terrible record). I don't know how many of the guys here are from the Lakers because they're from L.A., but a lot of us are not even american, so we didn't become Lakers fans because they're from L.A., we become Lakers fans because of their great players and traditions and, most of all, we became Lakers fans for life because of that winning mentality, because they are the ONE team that never tanks, that always give all they got in a season, even if they don't have much to give. Because of this, a lot of people from very very faraway have become even more Lakers fans than some fans from L.A. Let's not lose that mentality thinking about tanking, It just isn't us.



You simply nailed it sir.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby kobe2413 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:49 am

Great post Magic Skywalker!
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby Punk-101 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:14 am

Magic Skywalker wrote:Sure, our defense will be awful, but it's not like it wasn't awful last year. I don't think it'll be much worse, honestly. Actually, I'll be the weird guy who thinks it might actually improve a little bit. While our defenders are worse, I think they will put more effort on D than players last year. We all know that most of the time, effort just wasn't there on D. Guys like Wesley Johnson should really help with this.


I actually think our defense will be better this year.

Good defense consists of 3 factors:
1. Chemistry: trust, communication, familiarity, effort, wanting to help each other.
2. Personnel: size, speed, strength, mobility, athleticism, etc.
3. Coaching: defensive scheme to fit the personnel, time spent practicing said scheme.

All 3 are needed to be a great defensive team, but they are not weighted evenly. I'd say it's: 60% chemistry, 20% personnel, 20% coaching.

Without chemistry, a team of all world defenders and Thibs' coaching would be mediocre. Conversely, a team of soulmates who are statues and traffic cones will suck as well. I think we'll have something in the middle.

Chemistry was our biggest problem last year. Dwight did some great things defensively by himself, but more often than not there were palms to the air, shoulders shrugged, and finger pointing by him and others. I have a feeling that our chemistry is going to be rad this year.

Personnel wise, Pau and Nash SUCK. They aren't mobile or athletic at all. Pau at the PF was our biggest personnel flaw on defense last year. He couldn't move to help and recover, hedge on PnR, or switch to contest shots. Pau at center with Hill or (LO, Brand?) will be much better. Nash is still going to suck it up, but that is what it is. Kobe is going to be worse than he was last year due to the injury i'm guessing. the thing is that Kobe was capable of playing elite defense at times (remember vs cleveland/bucks?), but he just can't play both sides of the ball anymore. Having young athletic, long wings like Young and Wes will help conserve kobe and allow for better rotations. Metta's slow arse hurt us there too.

Coaching is what it is. 'Antoni isn't Thibs, but let's not freak out. These guys are all seasoned vets who know how to play defense in many different schemes. If the chemistry is there, they'll know what to do.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby Magic Skywalker on Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:35 am

Cannot say I disagree with you there, Punk.

I just think those proportions you make between chemestry, personnel and coaching are easy to measure.

As I stated, we lost personnel, but on the other hand, we won chemestry, and likely coaching (again, not because of the man itself, but because of the preparations).

So the thing is pretty simple: Will the improvement in chemestry make up for the losses in personnel? And, of course this will lead to: How much will our chemestry improve? How much did we really lose on the personnel department?

I think that, for now, that will be just a wild guess, and on my personal opinion, our improvement in chemestry and coaching will make up for what we lost on personnel, and maybe even let us improve a little, though I still think we'll be pretty bad on defense. You could say chemestry killed our personnel last year, mainly Dwight. Also, I think Metta doesn't have the same value as he did a few years ago for the reasons stated before.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:07 am

Im always optimistic
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:03 am

Magic Skywalker that was a tremendous post. :jam2:

I'm with you guys on the defensive end actually with the pick ups of Johnson and Young. And yes I know Young doesn't have a defensive reputation, but both he and Wes look up to Kobe and I think he'll get them to hold themselves accountable on that end.

I think the team will likely be pretty close to the same in terms of overall defensive effectiveness for all the reasons you guys mentioned. I'm pretty sure there'll be a great amount of chemistry around this team, even if they're physically not quite capable of being great. Losing Dwight and Metta is going to hurt the defensive TALENT, but probably help the defensive effort out there.

Well... Metta seemed to try every night, he just isn't quick enough anymore... Dwight on the other hand...
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby Ludachris on Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:33 pm

I'm optimistic just knowing we might have better ball movement and possibly better offensive efficiency and better shooting outside of Kobe, and the bench is shaping up to have some good potential. Defense will probably suck, but we may get a little better on the perimeter. And hey, a more fluid offense will certainly help the defense a bit.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby revgen on Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:02 am

Although I'm bummed that we're not really looking like we're going to be winning a championship next season, I'm going to try my best to enjoy watching this team. We've brought in some younger FA's who may be fun to watch under D'Antoni's system. Sometimes it's easier to enjoy the experience when your expectations are properly calibrated. Hopefully, they will exceed my expectations, but if not, I can always hope that 2014 brings us better luck.
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Re: The Optimistic Thread! (TRD's FREEDOM THREAD!)

Postby kenzo on Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:07 am

Don't put too much faith/trust in the 2014 plan rev. I think, we have a much better chance to get some "good" players in 2015. I have no problems being wrong though :man12:
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