The tracking of losses margins/number of Fts missed thread

The tracking of losses margins/number of Fts missed thread

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:09 am

The credit for this thread idea goes to "Kobe2Lamar" on LG

Let's keep track of the number of FTs missed in losses and compared them to the losses margins

Dallas 8 pts loss (19 fts missed) D12 3-14 Others 9-17
Portland 10 (6 fts missed) D12 15-19 Others 11-13
Clippers 10 (8 fts missed) D12 5-10 Others 15-18
@ Utah 9 (14 fts missed) D12 5-12 Others 27-34
San Antonio 2 (8 fts missed) D12 3-6 Others 11-16
Sacramento 16 (12 fts missed) D12 3-4 Others 24-35
@ Memphis 8 (4 fts missed) D12 3-6 Others 17-18
Indiana 2 (20 fts missed) D12 3-12 Others 20-31
Orlando 10 (14 fts missed) D12 9-21 Others 16-18
@Houston 2 (12 fts missed ) D12 8-16 Others 14-18
@OKC 6 (6 fts missed ) D12 5-7 Others 20-24

Fts missed ( 5 times for D12 and the rest of the team three times) have been a HUGE reason of six of our 11 losses ( even if the final score margin doesn't always represent well how the whole game went)
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Re: The tracking of losses margins/number of Fts missed thread

Postby JGC on Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:46 am

I just don't think we can blame his FT shooting for our losses. We knew Dwight was a 50% FT shooter coming in, and that he would shoot at times in the 40s or worse and at times in the 60s or best.

Our predictions coming in to the season for this team, concluded that we would dominate on most nights. Those conclusions didn't assume Dwight would be shooting a palatable FT percentage (I hope, given his history). I can only assume that people thought we would dominate and win on most nights in spite of his FT shooting liability.

If we need Dwight to shoot a good percentage in order to win games, then our roster is flawed and that's the real problem and we shouldn't even be thinking about a championship. The only way we're going to win a championship is if we win games in spite of his poor FT shooting and that way is no different before the season started to now.

I mean, I do get the argument that hey, how can you say that, these games have been close and his FT shooting killed us. And that isn't untrue. The point is that if that's really what we want to blame, then we were all wrong about this team (incl. Laker management).
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Re: The tracking of losses margins/number of Fts missed thread

Postby escitnj on Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:57 am

JGC wrote:I just don't think we can blame his FT shooting for our losses. We knew Dwight was a 50% FT shooter coming in, and that he would shoot at times in the 40s or worse and at times in the 60s or best.

Our predictions coming in to the season for this team, concluded that we would dominate on most nights. Those conclusions didn't assume Dwight would be shooting a palatable FT percentage (I hope, given his history). I can only assume that people thought we would dominate and win on most nights in spite of his FT shooting liability.

If we need Dwight to shoot a good percentage in order to win games, then our roster is flawed and that's the real problem and we shouldn't even be thinking about a championship. The only way we're going to win a championship is if we win games in spite of his poor FT shooting and that way is no different before the season started to now.

I mean, I do get the argument that hey, how can you say that, these games have been close and his FT shooting killed us. And that isn't untrue. The point is that if that's really what we want to blame, then we were all wrong about this team (incl. Laker management).


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Re: The tracking of losses margins/number of Fts missed thread

Postby Ariza3 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:05 pm

it's not the reason we lose but it doesn't help going down to the wire. him making free throws could give us a win where we really didn't deserve it but some how win. "good teams find a way to win" regardless of how poorly they played the whole game and Dwight making his free throws could have really given us a few more wins. But it is what it is and judging by what he's said about it, he's not changing anything about his free throws and is annoyed people keep talking to him about it and try to help him out.
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Re: The tracking of losses margins/number of Fts missed thread

Postby lakersin4 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:36 pm

Dwight took his team to the finals shooting like this from the line.. You're telling me he can't even play .500 ball here doing the same? Dwight isn't the problem.
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Re: The tracking of losses margins/number of Fts missed thread

Postby trodgers on Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:00 pm

JGC-like post wrote:I just don't think we can blame his binge shooting for our losses. We knew Kobe was a gunner coming in, and that he would shoot at least 15-20 shots per night and sometimes as many as 30 times.

(Substitute consistently throughout the remainder of the paragraph)

Does that argument work?
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Re: The tracking of losses margins/number of Fts missed thread

Postby JGC on Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:02 pm

lakerswiz wrote:Just because we knew he was crap at shooting doesn't mean it's not a reason we're losing.

With the knowledge we had going into this, we should have known hack a dwight would come.

And yet our coach just leaves him in.


Well, you're right, but I guess my point is that if Dwight needs to shoot better than his average from the FT line in order for us to win games, then, we really shouldn't expect to win very many at all especially in the postseason.

I guess if the margin of error, or, the difference between a win or loss is generally going to be Howard's free throw shooting, then this team really, really sucks when you consider Orlando won 59 games in spite of his FT shooting.
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Re: The tracking of losses margins/number of Fts missed thread

Postby trodgers on Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:08 pm

wcsoldier81 wrote:The credit for this thread idea goes to "Kobe2Lamar" on LG

Let's keep track of the number of FTs missed in losses and compared them to the losses margins

Dallas 8 pts loss (19 fts missed) D12 3-14 Others 9-17 (+2) Loss / Loss / Loss
Portland 10 (6 fts missed) D12 15-19 Others 11-13 (+0) Loss / Loss / Loss
Clippers 10 (8 fts missed) D12 5-10 Others 15-18 (+0) Loss / Loss / Loss
@ Utah 9 (14 fts missed) D12 5-12 Others 27-34 (+0) Loss / Loss / Loss
San Antonio 2 (8 fts missed) D12 3-6 Others 11-16 (+0) Loss / Loss / Loss
Sacramento 16 (12 fts missed) D12 3-4 Others 24-35 (+0) Loss / Loss / Loss
@ Memphis 8 (4 fts missed) D12 3-6 Others 17-18 (+0) Loss / Loss / Loss
Indiana 2 (20 fts missed) D12 3-12 Others 20-31 (+1) Loss / Win / Win
Orlando 10 (14 fts missed) D12 9-21 Others 16-18 (+0) Loss / Loss / Loss
@Houston 2 (12 fts missed ) D12 8-16 Others 14-18 (+0) Loss / Loss / Loss
@OKC 6 (6 fts missed ) D12 5-7 Others 20-24 (+0) Loss / Loss / Loss

Fts missed ( 5 times for D12 and the rest of the team three times) have been a HUGE reason of six of our 11 losses ( even if the final score margin doesn't always represent well how the whole game went)

Supposing the other players shot 70% in all of those games, we still would have lost all of them. If we moved it to 75%, they would have picked up 1 win. If we moved it to 80%, it still would have been only 1 win.

It's fair to expect the Lakers other than Howard to shoot 70-80; I don't know how reasonable it is to expect Howard to suddenly pick it up. BTW, if Howard alone had hit 50% of his FTs in those games, two things would have happened.

First, he would have been fouled less.
Second, if he hadn't been fouled less, it still would have been only one more win.
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Re: The tracking of losses margins/number of Fts missed thread

Postby JGC on Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:12 pm

trodgers wrote:
JGC-like post wrote:I just don't think we can blame his binge shooting for our losses. We knew Kobe was a gunner coming in, and that he would shoot at least 15-20 shots per night and sometimes as many as 30 times.

(Substitute consistently throughout the remainder of the paragraph)

Does that argument work?


Flagged for baiting (not that that will amount to much I'm sure). This is now the 3rd time you have done this in as many days.

This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. What are you doing? Please stop following me around and replying to my posts and doing this. Especially from a moderator I mean, what do you expect me to do? This is becoming borderline disturbing. You should know better.

Do you have anything to say about my posts anymore or are you just going to keep attacking me like this? I haven't even said a thing since you warned me for saying that woman in the OKC game doing interviews was old. I kept my mouth shut and I'm just replying to posts and now you're resorting to this?
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Re: The tracking of losses margins/number of Fts missed thread

Postby thkthebest on Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:13 pm

Free throws are obviously one problem, but you can find the same stats for turnovers and opponent's fastbreak points.

We have had more turnovers than our opponents in all of our losses except 1. Kobe has been a big culprit in that department, but our team as a whole sucks in taking care of the ball. Thankfully, Kobe is such a hard worker. He said that he's working on his ball handling everyday. He's working on improving his pnr game everyday. So, I'm hoping that our turnover problems will improve. Nash will also help in that department, and through that, our transition defense will indirectly improve.

As for Dwight, I have no idea what to expect. I'm hoping he can just hit his career averages. He didn't play basketball in 6 months. He's nowhere near close to what he used to be. I just hope he'll get back into form soon and his free throws will also improve as the season progresses.
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Re: The tracking of losses margins/number of Fts missed thread

Postby Scnottaken on Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:16 pm

I'd like to know the trend of W/L to FT shot by dwight. See if there's any truth to the breaking of rythm to hack a dwight.
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Re: The tracking of losses margins/number of Fts missed thread

Postby trodgers on Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:32 pm

Scnottaken wrote:I'd like to know the trend of W/L to FT shot by dwight. See if there's any truth to the breaking of rythm to hack a dwight.

I've posted some data on the Hack a Dwight stuff. I'll dig it up. They're calling it KryptoDwight, btw.
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