I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby hollywood swinger on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:35 pm

first off i'm not here trying to bash just expressing my thoughts. Not mentioning the obvious that we have too few athletic back court players & zero team speed i think we are struggling and will continue to struggle is because of our turnovers. obviously the turnovers kill our transition defense and imo the princeton offense is the cause of the turnovers. keep in mind i am not bashing the princeton but it simply does not work for us because the princeton requires everyone to handle the ball which outside of nash we are terrible across the board. blake, pau, D12 and the king of all turnovers metta are not great passers or ball handlers. the princeton is causing bad ball handlers to touch the ball too much on every possession. Obviously if nash had the ball more it would mean less turnovers. blake, pau, metta and even kobe are notorious for lazy passes. We don't need to scrap the offense but i would only run it when we go small with good ball handlers on the floor like a lineup of
(nash, kobe, hill, meeks,jamison).

iirc the princeton was originally for undersized not as athletic teams with more guard types on the roster. we simply don't have strong enough pg play and ballhandlers to operate this offense efficiently imo. Mike brown needs to make blake a 3pt specialist only. get the ball out of his hands because he can't create for others without passing up wide open shots or making turnovers. i would tell him your job is to stretch the floor just like jodi. this offense has too many hand offs and passes for guys that aren't good at it to execute. its a recipe for turnovers which is what is killing this team. it worked for sac kings because they had good ball handlers on the floor running it. cwebb, bibby, christie( who had pg skills) and vlade who was an excellent passing big. the starting 5 needs to keep the ball out of metta the dribble kings hands and get to the p&r and reserve the princeton for small guard dominant lineups.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:37 pm

Brown is the sole reason
No doubts about it swinger
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:38 pm

I'm not gonna read all that, but I'm gonna assume you blamed turd face Brown
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby kray28 on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:40 pm

The reason they are failing is a lot more simple than what offensive scheme they are running. They're just playing poor basketball, especially when it comes to rebounding and defense. And they turn it over copiously, (close to 20 times a game) and don't run back to stop the ball on runouts.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby Rooscooter on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:42 pm

Good points Swinger.... all are plausible.....

It doesn't explain the lack of effort and fundamentals on the defensive end however.... that's a mental thing that is tied to motivation more than anything else.....
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby hollywood swinger on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:45 pm

Rooscooter wrote:Good points Swinger.... all are plausible.....

It doesn't explain the lack of effort and fundamentals on the defensive end however.... that's a mental thing that is tied to motivation more than anything else.....


well guys in any sport don't play with motivation and effort when they don't believe in the system or the person teaching the system.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby hollywood swinger on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:48 pm

kray28 wrote:The reason they are failing is a lot more simple than what offensive scheme they are running. They're just playing poor basketball, especially when it comes to rebounding and defense. And they turn it over copiously, (close to 20 times a game) and don't run back to stop the ball on runouts.


i disagree. we absolutely stink out there and yet we almost beat the clippers with a team that is totally out of sync. that offense is the cause of our bad defense because it makes us turn the ball over. Looking at that team of mentally weak guys on the clippers is hilarious. they actually think they did something tonight. we are giving games to teams by running that offense because the turnovers are the reason for this teams struggles on so many levels.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby purp n gold on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:50 pm

Just about every analyst or former player/coach has managed to say "that's just basketball-101" when they describe our team play. Meaning to say we don't even have the basics down.

Only an incompetent coach can render 2 mvps, 2 dpoys, and several all-stars into a jumbled mess.

Eddy Curry was just signed AND WAIVED from a 7-day contract and balled our team up. Just think about that for a second. EDDY CURRY ON A 7 DAY CONTRACT BALLED OUR TEAM UP.

It's absolutely on Mike Brown. I give every player on our squad an excuse for these losses. Hell, looking back I even feel sympathetic for Sessions and McRoberts. :bang:
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:55 pm

hollywood swinger wrote:
kray28 wrote:The reason they are failing is a lot more simple than what offensive scheme they are running. They're just playing poor basketball, especially when it comes to rebounding and defense. And they turn it over copiously, (close to 20 times a game) and don't run back to stop the ball on runouts.


i disagree. we absolutely stink out there and yet we almost beat the clippers with a team that is totally out of sync. that offense is the cause of our bad defense because it makes us turn the ball over. Looking at that team of mentally weak guys on the clippers is hilarious. they actually think they did something tonight. we are giving games to teams by running that offense because the turnovers are the reason for this teams struggles on so many levels.


how on earth you could possibly think we almost beat them? They had a solid lead for like 44 minutes of the game
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby gill on Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:03 am

The number of turnovers per game (including preseason) is just absolutely insane. Yes it's killing us, but when they can't even get that number down, there's far deeper problems underneath.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby hollywood swinger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:07 am

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:
hollywood swinger wrote:
kray28 wrote:The reason they are failing is a lot more simple than what offensive scheme they are running. They're just playing poor basketball, especially when it comes to rebounding and defense. And they turn it over copiously, (close to 20 times a game) and don't run back to stop the ball on runouts.


i disagree. we absolutely stink out there and yet we almost beat the clippers with a team that is totally out of sync. that offense is the cause of our bad defense because it makes us turn the ball over. Looking at that team of mentally weak guys on the clippers is hilarious. they actually think they did something tonight. we are giving games to teams by running that offense because the turnovers are the reason for this teams struggles on so many levels.


how on earth you could possibly think we almost beat them? They had a solid lead for like 44 minutes of the game


We were within 6-8 points of them multiple times in the 2nd half and we are a freaking mess while they were clicking on the 2nd unit and everyone contributing. meanwhile our bench stunk as usual and we were making a ton of turnovers courtesy of the princeton offense.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby hollywood swinger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:09 am

purp n gold wrote:Just about every analyst or former player/coach has managed to say "that's just basketball-101" when they describe our team play. Meaning to say we don't even have the basics down.

Only an incompetent coach can render 2 mvps, 2 dpoys, and several all-stars into a jumbled mess.

Eddy Curry was just signed AND WAIVED from a 7-day contract and balled our team up. Just think about that for a second. EDDY CURRY ON A 7 DAY CONTRACT BALLED OUR TEAM UP.

It's absolutely on Mike Brown. I give every player on our squad an excuse for these losses. Hell, looking back I even feel sympathetic for Sessions and McRoberts. :bang:


mike brown's only crime is he hasn't realized we don't have a good enough ball handling and passing roster to run this offense.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby hollywood swinger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:14 am

gill wrote:The number of turnovers per game (including preseason) is just absolutely insane. Yes it's killing us, but when they can't even get that number down, there's far deeper problems underneath.


the problem is we can't pass and handle the ball. hate to say it but that won't change and we gotta get
the ball out of metta, blake, ebanks ect... hands.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby kray28 on Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:18 am

There's a pattern for failure that's been repeated for three straight games right now, and it's tied to the core flaw in Brown's rotation scheme: The other team inevitably goes on a run near the end of the third quarter...that's when the starters who he's been running into the ground start running out of gas, and he needs to sub them out. The sub is so drastic, and the quality dropoff is so big, you get an immediate run by the other team. When the still tired starters are brought back in early fourth quarter, they have a huge hill to climb.

Brown hasn't built up a capable bench, because he never sticks to a set rotation. Without a set bench rotation, there is no chemistry and there is no teamwork.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby last stand on Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:23 am

kray28 wrote:There's a pattern for failure that's been repeated for three straight games right now, and it's tied to the core flaw in Brown's rotation scheme: The other team inevitably goes on a run near the end of the third quarter...that's when the starters who he's been running into the ground start running out of gas, and he needs to sub them out. The sub is so drastic, and the quality dropoff is so big, you get an immediate run by the other team. When the still tired starters are brought back in early fourth quarter, they have a huge hill to climb.

Brown hasn't built up a capable bench, because he never sticks to a set rotation. Without a set bench rotation, there is no chemistry and there is no teamwork.


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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby Dyeggoo on Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:17 am

I think I also know what's wrong with this team. And it has something to do with potatoes...
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby purp n gold on Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:20 am

hollywood swinger wrote:mike brown's only crime is he hasn't realized we don't have a good enough ball handling and passing roster to run this offense.

I disagree. You have a few points, but I'm not worried about the functions of the Princeton offense. Mike Brown has several crimes. But to paraphrase what you said, Mike Brown's biggest crime is completely failing (or ignoring) to assess this team's strengths and weaknesses.

kray28 wrote:There's a pattern for failure that's been repeated for three straight games right now, and it's tied to the core flaw in Brown's rotation scheme: The other team inevitably goes on a run near the end of the third quarter...that's when the starters who he's been running into the ground start running out of gas, and he needs to sub them out. The sub is so drastic, and the quality dropoff is so big, you get an immediate run by the other team. When the still tired starters are brought back in early fourth quarter, they have a huge hill to climb.

Brown hasn't built up a capable bench, because he never sticks to a set rotation. Without a set bench rotation, there is no chemistry and there is no teamwork.


Exactly. This is how each of our halves go:
1 Defense isn't organized, other team executes & goes on a run
2 Lakers counter by unorganized individual offense
3 Starters get tired
4 Other team goes on another run to make the lead double digits

Rinse and repeat, except we start 2nd halves with a 8 or 10 pt deficit. Sometimes we start to play good defense by the end of the 3rd, but never enough to overcome any deficit.

Like I said. I'm not worried about the functions of the Princeton offense. I'm worried about the way we're losing games, and it's the same way we lost games last year. Erratic rotations and selections, random DNP's, and bottom line running our aged starters into the ground. He has no clue and we'll never win with him.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby Ariza3 on Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:29 am

the reason beyond turnovers and overall effort is simply that mike brown never played basketball. he doesnt understand anything but stats. he doesnt get that we need our bench to play the same minutes every game with the same guys before he sees results. playing meeks one game and he drills a couple 3's for us...then the next not play him one minute while playing kobe 40+ mins in a losing effort is beyond idiotic.

Meeks will never become a factor for our team if he doesnt get to play and mesh with other bench players. i think he'd fit perfectly next to blake as blake loves to pass up an open shot and meeks is the NUMBER 1 RANKED PLAYER IN SPOT UP SHOOTING IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE! yea the entire league hes #1...yet mike brown doesnt play him.

its not even that hes a bad coach...im sure he knows his x's and o's...but its that he doesnt understand the players he has. Phil would never let meeks sit on the bench bc he knows how much playing time means to a spot up shooter. he has to get in a rhythm and once he gets that itll be raining 3's. mike brown looks at his stats and its 3-6pts and think ebanks or kobe playing 5 more mins can cover that...

things like that are the reason why were not doing well otherthan turnovers and D. i have no idea why meeks didnt play...we were getting so many 3's that he could have easily contributed and given kobe rest..prob could have given kobe the rest he needed so he wouldnt have 0 for the 2nd quarter after playing the entire first.

think that problem will never change as mike will never understand players mentality and what they need to excell.

pretty much play the bench rotation and dont leave anyone out.

Nash/Blake
Kobe/Meeks
MWP/Ebanks
Pau/Jamison
Dwight/Hill

those guys should play EVERY game set mins with set rotations. we will not suceed at all if they get to ride the bench for a week straight then are expected to produce in the one game they get to play. i feel terrible for meeks and ebanks. both deserve minutes and kobe/mwp deserve rest imo.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby hollywood swinger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:32 am

purp n gold wrote:
hollywood swinger wrote:mike brown's only crime is he hasn't realized we don't have a good enough ball handling and passing roster to run this offense.

I disagree. You have a few points, but I'm not worried about the functions of the Princeton offense. Mike Brown has several crimes. But to paraphrase what you said, Mike Brown's biggest crime is completely failing (or ignoring) to assess this team's strengths and weaknesses.

kray28 wrote:There's a pattern for failure that's been repeated for three straight games right now, and it's tied to the core flaw in Brown's rotation scheme: The other team inevitably goes on a run near the end of the third quarter...that's when the starters who he's been running into the ground start running out of gas, and he needs to sub them out. The sub is so drastic, and the quality dropoff is so big, you get an immediate run by the other team. When the still tired starters are brought back in early fourth quarter, they have a huge hill to climb.

Brown hasn't built up a capable bench, because he never sticks to a set rotation. Without a set bench rotation, there is no chemistry and there is no teamwork.


Exactly. This is how each of our halves go:
1 Defense isn't organized, other team executes & goes on a run
2 Lakers counter by unorganized individual offense
3 Starters get tired
4 Other team goes on another run to make the lead double digits

Rinse and repeat, except we start 2nd halves with a 8 or 10 pt deficit. Sometimes we start to play good defense by the end of the 3rd, but never enough to overcome any deficit.

Like I said. I'm not worried about the functions of the Princeton offense. I'm worried about the way we're losing games, and it's the same way we lost games last year. Erratic rotations and selections, random DNP's, and bottom line running our aged starters into the ground. He has no clue and we'll never win with him.


i think we are saying the same thing. he is not paying attention to the rosters weaknesses by choosing to run this offense with cripples the team defensively. at the same time it is eliminating the strengths this team has which is 3 very very accomplished offensive players that are dominant kobe, dwight and nash. metta's weakness is ball handling and over dribbling yet this equal opportunity offense puts him in position to fail same with pau out on the perimeter and not working in the post where he can be effective when he takes off his mini skirt.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby TheOp on Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:38 am

The problem with this team is that they cant D up a chair.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby lakersyunowin on Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:00 am

Image

/end thread.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby hollywood swinger on Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:14 am

another turnover fest. this is a horrible passing team from top to bottom full of lazy passers. continuing to run a pass drivin offense will get the same results which is it makes our defense horrific due to transition. :man10: any fool can see its not the princeton offense it is we have a roster loaded with horrific passers and ball handlers that isn't built for it.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:34 am

purp n gold wrote:
hollywood swinger wrote:mike brown's only crime is he hasn't realized we don't have a good enough ball handling and passing roster to run this offense.

I disagree. You have a few points, but I'm not worried about the functions of the Princeton offense. Mike Brown has several crimes. But to paraphrase what you said, Mike Brown's biggest crime is completely failing (or ignoring) to assess this team's strengths and weaknesses.

kray28 wrote:There's a pattern for failure that's been repeated for three straight games right now, and it's tied to the core flaw in Brown's rotation scheme: The other team inevitably goes on a run near the end of the third quarter...that's when the starters who he's been running into the ground start running out of gas, and he needs to sub them out. The sub is so drastic, and the quality dropoff is so big, you get an immediate run by the other team. When the still tired starters are brought back in early fourth quarter, they have a huge hill to climb.

Brown hasn't built up a capable bench, because he never sticks to a set rotation. Without a set bench rotation, there is no chemistry and there is no teamwork.


Exactly. This is how each of our halves go:
1 Defense isn't organized, other team executes & goes on a run
2 Lakers counter by unorganized individual offense
3 Starters get tired
4 Other team goes on another run to make the lead double digits

Rinse and repeat, except we start 2nd halves with a 8 or 10 pt deficit. Sometimes we start to play good defense by the end of the 3rd, but never enough to overcome any deficit.

Like I said. I'm not worried about the functions of the Princeton offense. I'm worried about the way we're losing games, and it's the same way we lost games last year. Erratic rotations and selections, random DNP's, and bottom line running our aged starters into the ground. He has no clue and we'll never win with him.


^^ This is right on point purp n gold.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby khmrP on Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:51 am

this team needs a simplistic offense, I dont see anything spectacular offensively with OKC, they just give it to Westbrook and he attacks on his own or with a pick, same with Clipps, even Mia whatever pace/space crap is just Lebron attacking and sucking the D in to give shooters wide open shots. But yet we have to run a read/react type crap, feels like equivalent of Tebow offense in football, read/option doesn't work if you dont have the right personnel for it.
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Re: I think i have the reason why this team is struggling....

Postby therealdeal on Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:55 am

I'm with LJ and purp n gold.

The problem isn't the offense per se. I think the problem with the offense is guys are losing faith in it. I only watched the 2nd half of the Jazz game, but all I saw was lazy pass after pazy pass our there resulting in lazy defense. The team has lost faith in their coach. If the FO didn't see it last night, I'm not sure they ever will. The offense isn't necessarily the problem, but if the guys aren't all in on it, they're not going to execute it properly.

The rotations have now cost us I'd estimate 2 games (Clippers and Jazz). The first game was on the players. The second game was in Portland and honestly we probably lose that in any situation. The other games were winnable games if you run the team correctly with reasonable rotations and freedom on the court.
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