This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby Vlade_12 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:00 pm

Rotations:
The 10 man rotation should be the following:
Starting 5
Dwight , Jamison, World Peace, Kobe, Nash
Reasoning:
Dwight and World Peace are defensive beasts and can help out Jamison and Nash. This starting 5 is mobile, as Jamison is a stretch 4 who even at his age is a nimble 4. We will have our two main options of Kobe and Dwight, with Nash handling the ball surrounded by two shooters. All players are vets with uncanny awareness

Bench
Gasol, JHill, Ebanks, Meeks, Morris
Reasoning:
This bench would counter our older starting unit and would provide energy. If we are playing a star 4 then Hill will see more minutes instead of Jamison. Gasol will be the featured low post presence with this unit. Our youth would really try to push the tempo, led by Morris. Morris would also have to spell Nash early.Come playoff time we shorten the bench to a 8-9 rotation by playing either Ebanks or Meeks on who is playing the best.

Reserves
Duhon, Clark- they guys will be there for morale support, and ready in the event of an injury, or if Ebanks and Morris struggle.

IR/Dleague
Blake, Odom, Sacre
I would like to see the above rotation
Howard Gasol
Clark Hill
MWP
Kobe Meeks
Nash Duhon
Playoff rotation! Bring Casspi or Ariza back home for a Title Run Mitch!!!
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby Vlade_12 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:05 pm

think how we would match with the Heat
Dwight > Bosh
Jamison> Battier
Lebron> MWP but MWP would play tough
Kobe> Wade
Nash > Chalmers
Howard Gasol
Clark Hill
MWP
Kobe Meeks
Nash Duhon
Playoff rotation! Bring Casspi or Ariza back home for a Title Run Mitch!!!
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby socallakerlove on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:11 pm

Okay. Thanks. But only cause you said so.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby khmrP on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:12 pm

The <> equation doesn't actually playout on the court lol
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby Vlade_12 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:20 pm

this board is not friendly
Howard Gasol
Clark Hill
MWP
Kobe Meeks
Nash Duhon
Playoff rotation! Bring Casspi or Ariza back home for a Title Run Mitch!!!
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby Punk-101 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:26 pm

Vlade_12 wrote:this board is not friendly

Hey, i actually like your ideas.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby MusixFinest on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:34 pm

If this were NBA 2K13, I have Blake, Kobe, MWP, Jamison, Howard in my starting lineup, with Nash and Gasol coming in off the bench. Kobe has shown no real problems running the offense in Nash's absence, and the latter is better suited running with no-named guys and making them look good (I see Meeks benefiting the most from this). Also, we all know Gasol needs more post touches, touches he just doesn't see with D12 on the floor at the same time. Nash can get him the ball in his sweet spots and turn him into the player he once was.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:45 pm

I'm totally for moving Pau to the bench.

I would tweak my reasoning for it though. The first unit is our "speed" team. Led by Nash, you have Jodie at the 2, Kob at the 3, Jamison at the 4 and Dwight at the 5. Go uptempo and be the typical D'Antoni team that we've seen....but for god sakes, monitor their minutes.

Then the 2nd unit has Blake, Morris, Artest, Hill, Pau. This team should be more defensively geared with Artest, Morris and Blake pressuring the perimeter. This shouldn't be our speed team, but rather should highlight Pau in the paint and occasionally put Artest down on the block as well. Ideally, the starting unit pushes the tempo and builds a lead. The 2nd unit will then come in and maintain or hopefully build on the lead...but slow the pace way down. Normally when the pace is faster, that's when our 2nd unit loses a lead rather quickly...so slow it down and buy our starters some minutes.

19M for a bench player is alot to pay, but if the minutes are played just right, Pau will still get 30+ minutes even though he's coming off the bench. Essentially, he plays the LO role now.

Of course, this can only happen once Pau gets right....cause right now, its obvious he needs to shut it down and rest those knees.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby MusixFinest on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:46 pm

MusixFinest wrote:If this were NBA 2K13, I have Blake, Kobe, MWP, Jamison, Howard in my starting lineup, with Nash and Gasol coming in off the bench. Kobe has shown no real problems running the offense in Nash's absence, and the latter is better suited running with no-named guys and making them look good (I see Meeks benefiting the most from this). Also, we all know Gasol needs more post touches, touches he just doesn't see with D12 on the floor at the same time. Nash can get him the ball in his sweet spots and turn him into the player he once was.


^I would play a nine man rotation, with Hill playing spot minutes at the 4

Starting Lineup
Blake 18 (PG)
Kobe 26 (SG) + 8 (SF)
MWP 34 (SF)
Jamison 24 (PF) + 6 (SF)
D12 36 (C)

Bench
Nash 30 (PG)
Gasol 12 (C) + 18 (PF)
Meeks 22 (SG)
Hill 6 (PF)
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby TIME on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:48 pm

Vlade_12 wrote:this board is not friendly


Small sample sizes and snap judgments FTW!
I'm lost in the fog of denial!
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby MusixFinest on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:51 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:I'm totally for moving Pau to the bench.

I would tweak my reasoning for it though. The first unit is our "speed" team. Led by Nash, you have Jodie at the 2, Kob at the 3, Jamison at the 4 and Dwight at the 5. Go uptempo and be the typical D'Antoni team that we've seen....but for god sakes, monitor their minutes.

Then the 2nd unit has Blake, Morris, Artest, Hill, Pau. This team should be more defensively geared with Artest, Morris and Blake pressuring the perimeter. This shouldn't be our speed team, but rather should highlight Pau in the paint and occasionally put Artest down on the block as well. Ideally, the starting unit pushes the tempo and builds a lead. The 2nd unit will then come in and maintain or hopefully build on the lead...but slow the pace way down. Normally when the pace is faster, that's when our 2nd unit loses a lead rather quickly...so slow it down and buy our starters some minutes.

19M for a bench player is alot to pay, but if the minutes are played just right, Pau will still get 30+ minutes even though he's coming off the bench. Essentially, he plays the LO role now.

Of course, this can only happen once Pau gets right....cause right now, its obvious he needs to shut it down and rest those knees.


I think Kobe likes playing a half-court offense more than he does up-tempo. He has played that way his whole career. And despite everything he says, he likes having the ball in his hands. He's more engaged and more dangerous. I don't think his style meshes completely with Nash, which is why I say bring Stevie off the bench to help nurse the confidence of both Meeks and Gasol.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby easyguy on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:55 pm

MusixFinest wrote:
Vasashi17 wrote:I'm totally for moving Pau to the bench.

I would tweak my reasoning for it though. The first unit is our "speed" team. Led by Nash, you have Jodie at the 2, Kob at the 3, Jamison at the 4 and Dwight at the 5. Go uptempo and be the typical D'Antoni team that we've seen....but for god sakes, monitor their minutes.

Then the 2nd unit has Blake, Morris, Artest, Hill, Pau. This team should be more defensively geared with Artest, Morris and Blake pressuring the perimeter. This shouldn't be our speed team, but rather should highlight Pau in the paint and occasionally put Artest down on the block as well. Ideally, the starting unit pushes the tempo and builds a lead. The 2nd unit will then come in and maintain or hopefully build on the lead...but slow the pace way down. Normally when the pace is faster, that's when our 2nd unit loses a lead rather quickly...so slow it down and buy our starters some minutes.

19M for a bench player is alot to pay, but if the minutes are played just right, Pau will still get 30+ minutes even though he's coming off the bench. Essentially, he plays the LO role now.

Of course, this can only happen once Pau gets right....cause right now, its obvious he needs to shut it down and rest those knees.


I think Kobe likes playing a half-court offense more than he does up-tempo. He has played that way his whole career. And despite everything he says, he likes having the ball in his hands. He's more engaged and more dangerous. I don't think his style meshes completely with Nash, which is why I say bring Stevie off the bench to help nurse the confidence of both Meeks and Gasol.



Playing Kobe style ball doesn't win championship, we tried it for a few years already, that was when he was at his prime too.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby The Rock on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:58 pm

We cant send Pau to the bench, hes unproductive as he is with the starters and it will get even worse with the 2nd unit. He plays with the 2nd unit last few years and has done diddly playing Center. Just use him in the role he is right now where he just plays with the starters but start limiting his minutes until he plays better. HE doesn't get to finish games until his play starts trending upward. Time for Hill, Jamison or even MWP to get some minutes at the 4.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby TIME on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:58 pm

easyguy wrote:
MusixFinest wrote:
Vasashi17 wrote:I'm totally for moving Pau to the bench.

I would tweak my reasoning for it though. The first unit is our "speed" team. Led by Nash, you have Jodie at the 2, Kob at the 3, Jamison at the 4 and Dwight at the 5. Go uptempo and be the typical D'Antoni team that we've seen....but for god sakes, monitor their minutes.

Then the 2nd unit has Blake, Morris, Artest, Hill, Pau. This team should be more defensively geared with Artest, Morris and Blake pressuring the perimeter. This shouldn't be our speed team, but rather should highlight Pau in the paint and occasionally put Artest down on the block as well. Ideally, the starting unit pushes the tempo and builds a lead. The 2nd unit will then come in and maintain or hopefully build on the lead...but slow the pace way down. Normally when the pace is faster, that's when our 2nd unit loses a lead rather quickly...so slow it down and buy our starters some minutes.

19M for a bench player is alot to pay, but if the minutes are played just right, Pau will still get 30+ minutes even though he's coming off the bench. Essentially, he plays the LO role now.

Of course, this can only happen once Pau gets right....cause right now, its obvious he needs to shut it down and rest those knees.


I think Kobe likes playing a half-court offense more than he does up-tempo. He has played that way his whole career. And despite everything he says, he likes having the ball in his hands. He's more engaged and more dangerous. I don't think his style meshes completely with Nash, which is why I say bring Stevie off the bench to help nurse the confidence of both Meeks and Gasol.



Playing Kobe style ball doesn't win championship, we tried it for a few years already, that was when he was at his prime too.


This comment is full of loss. Kobe style ball has won 5 championships, and 7 Finals appearances.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby MusixFinest on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:58 pm

easyguy wrote:
MusixFinest wrote:
Vasashi17 wrote:I'm totally for moving Pau to the bench.

I would tweak my reasoning for it though. The first unit is our "speed" team. Led by Nash, you have Jodie at the 2, Kob at the 3, Jamison at the 4 and Dwight at the 5. Go uptempo and be the typical D'Antoni team that we've seen....but for god sakes, monitor their minutes.

Then the 2nd unit has Blake, Morris, Artest, Hill, Pau. This team should be more defensively geared with Artest, Morris and Blake pressuring the perimeter. This shouldn't be our speed team, but rather should highlight Pau in the paint and occasionally put Artest down on the block as well. Ideally, the starting unit pushes the tempo and builds a lead. The 2nd unit will then come in and maintain or hopefully build on the lead...but slow the pace way down. Normally when the pace is faster, that's when our 2nd unit loses a lead rather quickly...so slow it down and buy our starters some minutes.

19M for a bench player is alot to pay, but if the minutes are played just right, Pau will still get 30+ minutes even though he's coming off the bench. Essentially, he plays the LO role now.

Of course, this can only happen once Pau gets right....cause right now, its obvious he needs to shut it down and rest those knees.


I think Kobe likes playing a half-court offense more than he does up-tempo. He has played that way his whole career. And despite everything he says, he likes having the ball in his hands. He's more engaged and more dangerous. I don't think his style meshes completely with Nash, which is why I say bring Stevie off the bench to help nurse the confidence of both Meeks and Gasol.



Playing Kobe style ball doesn't win championship, we tried it for a few years already, that was when he was at his prime too.


I wasn't referring Kobe-style ball for 48 minutes a game. Kobe in D'Antoni's system is a lot different than Kobe circa 2004-2006. Also, if you would take a look at the minutes breakdown I provided, Nash would still play 30 minutes running the offense. The whole point of bringing Nash off the bench is to give Kobe some time to be...well, Kobe.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby MusixFinest on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:01 pm

The Rock wrote:We cant send Pau to the bench, hes unproductive as he is with the starters and it will get even worse with the 2nd unit. He plays with the 2nd unit last few years and has done diddly playing Center. Just use him in the role he is right now where he just plays with the starters but start limiting his minutes until he plays better. HE doesn't get to finish games until his play starts trending upward. Time for Hill, Jamison or even MWP to get some minutes at the 4.


He would be playing starters minutes off the bench. The point is to give him some burn at the C against the opposition's 2nd stringers when he's fresh. And not after playing a full quarter at PF.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby MusixFinest on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:03 pm

TIME wrote:
easyguy wrote:
MusixFinest wrote:
Vasashi17 wrote:I'm totally for moving Pau to the bench.

I would tweak my reasoning for it though. The first unit is our "speed" team. Led by Nash, you have Jodie at the 2, Kob at the 3, Jamison at the 4 and Dwight at the 5. Go uptempo and be the typical D'Antoni team that we've seen....but for god sakes, monitor their minutes.

Then the 2nd unit has Blake, Morris, Artest, Hill, Pau. This team should be more defensively geared with Artest, Morris and Blake pressuring the perimeter. This shouldn't be our speed team, but rather should highlight Pau in the paint and occasionally put Artest down on the block as well. Ideally, the starting unit pushes the tempo and builds a lead. The 2nd unit will then come in and maintain or hopefully build on the lead...but slow the pace way down. Normally when the pace is faster, that's when our 2nd unit loses a lead rather quickly...so slow it down and buy our starters some minutes.

19M for a bench player is alot to pay, but if the minutes are played just right, Pau will still get 30+ minutes even though he's coming off the bench. Essentially, he plays the LO role now.

Of course, this can only happen once Pau gets right....cause right now, its obvious he needs to shut it down and rest those knees.


I think Kobe likes playing a half-court offense more than he does up-tempo. He has played that way his whole career. And despite everything he says, he likes having the ball in his hands. He's more engaged and more dangerous. I don't think his style meshes completely with Nash, which is why I say bring Stevie off the bench to help nurse the confidence of both Meeks and Gasol.



Playing Kobe style ball doesn't win championship, we tried it for a few years already, that was when he was at his prime too.


This comment is full of loss. Kobe style ball has won 5 championships, and 7 Finals appearances.


^Agreed. Kobe playing within a system but still being the focal point leads to championships.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby The Rock on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:03 pm

MusixFinest wrote:
The Rock wrote:We cant send Pau to the bench, hes unproductive as he is with the starters and it will get even worse with the 2nd unit. He plays with the 2nd unit last few years and has done diddly playing Center. Just use him in the role he is right now where he just plays with the starters but start limiting his minutes until he plays better. HE doesn't get to finish games until his play starts trending upward. Time for Hill, Jamison or even MWP to get some minutes at the 4.


He would be playing starters minutes off the bench. The point is to give him some burn at the C against the opposition's 2nd stringers when he's fresh. And not after playing a full quarter at PF.


It wont make a difference. Fresh or not in nearly 2 season I haven't do him go to the post and try to be aggressive vs opposing Cs or PFs. He just floats in the perimeter. Pau is declining fast, we just have to put him in a role where his passing and rebounding are still utilized while his boneheaded play doesn't hurt the team. Hes basically Lamar now, Lamar was never counted on to carry the offense or score big points, that was just a bonus, hes there to rebound the ball and facilitate the ball to the sweet spots of our two best players. Pau seems content to do just that so let just mold him into that role. His days of being a No.2 scorer/player on a championshp team are over
Last edited by The Rock on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:05 pm

You have D'Antoni as coach and you have the PG he covets. I'm sorry, but I don't ever see Nash going to the bench.

I agree that Kobe covets a half-court set, but in the regular season, he's just going to have to make due with the cards he's dealt. Kobe has to give Nash the ball in this offense. He won't completely become the JRich/Joe Johnson type, but he's going to have to play shades of that type of ball, for this thing to click.

In the playoffs, tempo will slow down as defensive teams remain and that is when Kobe can demand for a half-court set. But for the regular season, you need to see how this uptempo thing will look...otherwise, there's no point in committing nearly 14M to bring in Nash/D'Antoni.

As for Pau, he isn't a stretch 4...he just isn't. We've seen the numbers with him at the 5 and they are much better than what we're seeing from him in the last couple of seasons where he had to bow out of the paint for Drew and now Dwight. Make him the focal point in the 2nd unit and he should flourish, especially if we slow the game down while he's in there.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby trodgers on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:07 pm

socallakerlove wrote:Okay. Thanks. But only cause you said so.

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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby trodgers on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:10 pm

Vlade_12 wrote:Rotations:
The 10 man rotation should be the following:
Starting 5
Dwight , Jamison, World Peace, Kobe, Nash
Reasoning:
Dwight and World Peace are defensive beasts and can help out Jamison and Nash. This starting 5 is mobile, as Jamison is a stretch 4 who even at his age is a nimble 4. We will have our two main options of Kobe and Dwight, with Nash handling the ball surrounded by two shooters. All players are vets with uncanny awareness

I see the concern here. I can't imagine that it WOULD happen in the first place. More than that, if you think Pau is mentally affected now, what would happen when you bench the two time champ, perennial all-star? I think it's not the best way to go about things, honestly.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby pound4pound1 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:12 pm

Vlade_12 wrote:Rotations:
The 10 man rotation should be the following:
Starting 5
Dwight , Jamison, World Peace, Kobe, Nash
Reasoning:
Dwight and World Peace are defensive beasts and can help out Jamison and Nash. This starting 5 is mobile, as Jamison is a stretch 4 who even at his age is a nimble 4. We will have our two main options of Kobe and Dwight, with Nash handling the ball surrounded by two shooters. All players are vets with uncanny awareness

Bench
Gasol, JHill, Ebanks, Meeks, Morris
Reasoning:
This bench would counter our older starting unit and would provide energy. If we are playing a star 4 then Hill will see more minutes instead of Jamison. Gasol will be the featured low post presence with this unit. Our youth would really try to push the tempo, led by Morris. Morris would also have to spell Nash early.Come playoff time we shorten the bench to a 8-9 rotation by playing either Ebanks or Meeks on who is playing the best.

Reserves
Duhon, Clark- they guys will be there for morale support, and ready in the event of an injury, or if Ebanks and Morris struggle.

IR/Dleague
Blake, Odom, Sacre
I would like to see the above rotation




i'd like to see how that turns out...what we have now doesn't seem to work
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby MusixFinest on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:15 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:You have D'Antoni as coach and you have the PG he covets. I'm sorry, but I don't ever see Nash going to the bench.

I agree that Kobe covets a half-court set, but in the regular season, he's just going to have to make due with the cards he's dealt. Kobe has to give Nash the ball in this offense. He won't completely become the JRich/Joe Johnson type, but he's going to have to play shades of that type of ball, for this thing to click.

In the playoffs, tempo will slow down as defensive teams remain and that is when Kobe can demand for a half-court set. But for the regular season, you need to see how this uptempo thing will look...otherwise, there's no point in committing nearly 14M to bring in Nash/D'Antoni.

As for Pau, he isn't a stretch 4...he just isn't. We've seen the numbers with him at the 5 and they are much better than what we're seeing from him in the last couple of seasons where he had to bow out of the paint for Drew and now Dwight. Make him the focal point in the 2nd unit and he should flourish, especially if we slow the game down while he's in there.


By "sending Nash to the bench", you make it seem like he wouldn't be playing much. I still think he deserves to play 30 minutes a game. My reason behind making him and Gasol our 6a and 6b men is to give everyone their touches and time to shine. Both Kobe and Nash need the ball, and neither should be bystanders. At the same time, it's inevitable that they will share the court together. But the true strength of this team is it's versatility. We can run both up-tempo and half-court because we have two players that run both styles well. It's Coach D'Antoni's job to realize that and not just focus on SSOL.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:27 pm

MusicFinest: I understand your reasoning and I've been up in arms with this coaching hire. The triangle made the most sense with this group IMHO. But management wanted more "Showtime" and if that is the case, then I really have a hard time seeing a team led by D'Antoni, not start Nash. Nash's minutes will undoubtedly have to be monitored, so there will be times where Kobe and the half-court set will be featured...but I'm pretty sure Nash will start all the games he's capable of playing in and will control the ball with Kobe playing off ball and from time to time working the block when tempo needs to be either slowed down or controlled. Out of all the players to worry about getting their touches, I think Kobe is the last one. He will get his one way or another. Plus, he's all about the hardware now, so like the Olympics, he'll take a backseat until the game is in doubt and then play the closer role. The guy I'm worried about in this offense is Dwight. He needs to get more touches than he is getting right now.

Meanwhile in NY, you have Amare and his 20M cool with coming off the bench once he returns. Pau has always been about the team...dude is probably selfless to a fault. He has sacrificed over and over and I have no doubt he'll welcome a prominent role with the 2nd unit and coming off the bench.

But first thing is first...he needs to get right. Its not easy to trade him, so we need to have the right mind of approaching this as a long term solution. If you run him into the ground now, what about the playoffs, when we really need him? Let him get right by shutting it down for a week or so...then bring him along slowly via the bench.
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Re: This should be the Lakers Rotation when Nash returns

Postby MusixFinest on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:31 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:MusicFinest: I understand your reasoning and I've been up in arms with this coaching hire. The triangle made the most sense with this group IMHO. But management wanted more "Showtime" and if that is the case, then I really have a hard time seeing a team led by D'Antoni, not start Nash. Nash's minutes will undoubtedly have to be monitored, so there will be times where Kobe and the half-court set will be featured...but I'm pretty sure Nash will start all the games he's capable of playing in and will control the ball with Kobe playing off ball and from time to time working the block when tempo needs to be either slowed down or controlled. Out of all the players to worry about getting their touches, I think Kobe is the last one. He will get his one way or another. Plus, he's all about the hardware now, so like the Olympics, he'll take a backseat until the game is in doubt and then play the closer role. The guy I'm worried about in this offense is Dwight. He needs to get more touches than he is getting right now.

Meanwhile in NY, you have Amare and his 20M cool with coming off the bench once he returns. Pau has always been about the team...dude is probably selfless to a fault. He has sacrificed over and over and I have no doubt he'll welcome a prominent role with the 2nd unit and coming off the bench.

But first thing is first...he needs to get right. Its not easy to trade him, so we need to have the right mind of approaching this as a long term solution. If you run him into the ground now, what about the playoffs, when we really need him? Let him get right by shutting it down for a week or so...then bring him along slowly via the bench.


:jam2: Respect
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