Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Re: Rumor: Gasol could be headed to Charlotte

Postby lotus on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:50 pm

Finally some action on getting Pau out of here! I've been waiting 2 years for this. Don't care if it's a package with Minny or with the Bobcats and high draft pick, just make a move and get more productive pieces in return. Pau has run his course.
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Re: Rumor: Gasol could be headed to Charlotte

Postby thisbjgz on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:54 pm

Laker's FO can't be that dumb...can they? Diop? if you're gonna trade Pau to the Bobcats at least ask for Byimbo or Henderson or something..
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Re: Rumor: Gasol could be headed to Charlotte

Postby Armani on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:55 pm

khmrP wrote:
Armani wrote:
khmrP wrote:Smith trade was NEVER on the table, that was just random speculations.


Based on what? We know the Dragic, Martin, Scola deal was on the table. The Lakers wanted to hold on to Gasol, and now it's come to this. The offers were way better last year.


based on FACTS and common sense. Smith is expiring, younger, cheaper. Why the hell would Atl want Gasol? he doesn't do ANYTHING for them. The rumors came before Smith current run in with the coaching staff, Ferry was adamant at the time that Smith wasn't being shopped and he's still not being shopped even after that recent run in with the coach.


Josh Smith wants out, and this was their best offer. This isn't about facts and common sense, it's about taking advantage of a bad situation, which Mitch has done in the past.
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Re: Rumor: Gasol could be headed to Charlotte

Postby lotus on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:56 pm

thisbjgz wrote:Laker's FO can't be that dumb...can they? Diop? if you're gonna trade Pau to the Bobcats at least ask for Byimbo or Henderson or something..

It's a new day and age in Lakerdom. Anything is possible with jimmy in charge.
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Re: Rumor: Gasol could be headed to Charlotte

Postby Helljumper on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:57 pm

Throw in another young athlete (Henderson, Williams, or Mullens), make them take Blake, Duhon, Morris, or Ebanks. Don't protect the pick too heavily. Makes sense as a trade. Gives us bench help while maintaining the 2014 plan.

Gordon is averaging 13 points on better shooting from the field and 3 point line than Meeks in about the same amount of playing time. He'd fit in well.
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Re: Brooklyn still interested in Howard, no deal on the table

Postby dj vitus on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:58 pm

phoenixrisingla wrote:
khmrP wrote:
OX1947 wrote:
lakersin4 wrote:Why would Lebron want to follow in Kobe's shadow? Lebron coming here when we have space is one of the most pipe ideas ever suggested on this board.


Save all that horse (bleep) shadow crap with Stephen A Moron and that (bleep) face across from him. This is about winning championships, I can care less about stupid shadows.


and James couldn't win it staying put in Mia? :man3:


Exactly. We need a shot of reality here people.

What exactly do we have here that LBJ would find preferable to his current situation??

I've been a Laker fan for 23 years and lived in LA for the last 10, and I'm having trouble coming up with anything...

Well, it seemed plausible... before the frickin season started. :man5: Now that we're going down the tubes, and Miami is still #1 in the east, why bother jumping ship? It's like Dwight bolting for Charlotte now.
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Re: Rumor: Gasol could be headed to Charlotte

Postby khmrP on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:05 pm

Armani wrote:Josh Smith wants out, and this was their best offer. This isn't about facts and common sense, it's about taking advantage of a bad situation, which Mitch has done in the past.


if you seriously think Pau is the best package Atl can get for an EXPIRING young talent, then you dont know much bout value then.
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Re: Rumor: Gasol could be headed to Charlotte

Postby thisbjgz on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:07 pm

Helljumper wrote:Throw in another young athlete (Henderson, Williams, or Mullens), make them take Blake, Duhon, Morris, or Ebanks. Don't protect the pick too heavily. Makes sense as a trade. Gives us bench help while maintaining the 2014 plan.

Gordon is averaging 13 points on better shooting from the field and 3 point line than Meeks in about the same amount of playing time. He'd fit in well.


So you mean to say Gordon will average 6 points, shooting about 31.2% from 3pt and 39% from 2 sounds about correct to me.

after all, anyone who comes to the Lakers will not do better than they would on their former teams.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby lakersyunowin on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:12 pm

diop and gordon for gasol would be asinine.

so jim will probably do it right? :man10:
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby cleverdevil on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:14 pm

The problem will all this trade talk is that most (NOT ALL) posters on this (and most other) board(s) is that they fail to think logically when it comes to how moves are made in the NBA. This isn’t NBA2K. You can’t just look at a player’s “overall rating”, age and just match salaries. There is a multitude of reason’s that GM’s trade players beyond skill and contract situations. Some GM’s overvalue players or “fall in love” with a players “talent”, some teams trade to benefit NOW, some teams trade to benefit LATER. The only reason that people have this assertion that the Lakers “swindle” anyone in trades is because we usually the former while our partner in the trade usually is the latter.

And this notion that Mitch Kupchak has a “magic wand” is utterly atrocious. If you look at the past few deals that people qualify as “magic wand” trades, you can logically find reasoning from the other teams to proceed with the transactions.


Pau Gasol/ 2010 2nd round pick (Devin Ebanks) -- > Kwame Brown/Javaris Crittenton/Aaron McKie/Draft Rights to Marc Gasol/ 2008 1st round pick (Donte Green)/ 2010 1st round pick (Greivis Vasquez)

Memphis knew that they wouldn’t win a title with Pau, they wanted to free up some cap space and start to rebuild. Kwame was a $9.1 mil expiring contract. Crittenton was then traded to Washington for a conditional 1st rounder (which incidentally was Memphis’ own that they sent for Juan Carlos Navarro). Aaron McKie was waived to clear somewhere in the area of $7 mil. Donte Green was eventually turned into Darrell Arthur and Vasquez was traded (too soon) to N.O. for Quincy Pondexter. We all know how Marc Gasol fared since. The Grizzlies are currently 26-14 this year.

Pau Gasol/Lamar Odom/undisclosed pick-- >Kevin Martin/ Luis Scola/ Goran Dragic/ undisclosed pick-- >Chris Paul

Salary cap was $58,000,000

This deal had it all, for all teams involved.

N.O. knew that Chris Paul was going to walk. 0% chance of him ever suiting up for the Hornets again. With the future of the franchise at stake (not only on the court but in terms of finding an owner), N.O. was set to deal their soon to be ex-star for a mountain of loot. Lamar Odom could have stepped in and stabilized the bench unit while also bringing veteran championship experience and leadership to what was going to be a lockerroom full of youngsters. Kevin Martin gave N.O. as viable 20 point a night scorer. Scola could stabilize the frontcourt and give the Hornets a hard nosed, no nonsense rebounding/scoring threat to team with Emeka Okafor. Dragic would provide decent production from the point guard position. The deal also saw both picks (one 1st and one 2nd) to N.O. to continue to build. N.O. takes on $31.12 mil in salary while relinquishing $16.35 mil (+ $14.76 mil bringing their total salary cap to $59,561,786 ($1,561,786 over the cap)

Houston desperately sought Gasol as their centerpiece big to run Kevin McHale’s offense. They had tried to bait L.A. into taking the deal before N.O. was invited to join. The move would have cut into Houston’s cap, allowing flexibility to make moves in the future. Houston takes on $18.74 mil while relinquishing $22.22 mil (-$3.48 mil bringing their total salary cap to $53,516,272 ($4,483,728 under the cap)

The Lakers were searching for the next miracle turnaround for the franchise. Rumors had been floating around about acquiring both Paul and Dwight Howard to lead the Lakers not only to a few more titles in the short term, but also long term after Kobe Bryant’s retirement. The Lakers take on $16.36 mil and relinquish $27.61 mil (-$11.25 mil bringing their total salary cap to $85,038,610 ($27,038,610 over the cap)

Everyone knows how that ended, so I won’t bring it up. But all sides had something good to take away from that trade.

Just a thought to all the other threads (outside of this one) where poster talk about getting Rudy Gay, Kevin Love, Danny Granger or any other great talent and look down on realistic deals that make fiscal and business sense. Or they take a realistic trade and say “add *usually cheap and underrated player* and MAKE them take *one of our useless contracts*”.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby Chillbongo on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:21 pm

^^ :bow:

Fantastic break down.

Wow. NO would have really benefited from that trade & Anthony Davis might've been on the Wizards. John Wall + Anthony Davis?

I AM STILL REALLY PISSED ABOUT THAT CHRIS PAUL TRADE EFF DAVID STERN WOW WE WOULD HAVE BEEN LEGIT AND SAVED DOUGH OMG
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:24 pm

cleverdevil wrote:The problem will all this trade talk is that most (NOT ALL) posters on this (and most other) board(s) is that they fail to think logically when it comes to how moves are made in the NBA. This isn’t NBA2K. You can’t just look at a player’s “overall rating”, age and just match salaries. There is a multitude of reason’s that GM’s trade players beyond skill and contract situations. Some GM’s overvalue players or “fall in love” with a players “talent”, some teams trade to benefit NOW, some teams trade to benefit LATER. The only reason that people have this assertion that the Lakers “swindle” anyone in trades is because we usually the former while our partner in the trade usually is the latter.

And this notion that Mitch Kupchak has a “magic wand” is utterly atrocious. If you look at the past few deals that people qualify as “magic wand” trades, you can logically find reasoning from the other teams to proceed with the transactions.


Pau Gasol/ 2010 2nd round pick (Devin Ebanks) -- > Kwame Brown/Javaris Crittenton/Aaron McKie/Draft Rights to Marc Gasol/ 2008 1st round pick (Donte Green)/ 2010 1st round pick (Greivis Vasquez)

Memphis knew that they wouldn’t win a title with Pau, they wanted to free up some cap space and start to rebuild. Kwame was a $9.1 mil expiring contract. Crittenton was then traded to Washington for a conditional 1st rounder (which incidentally was Memphis’ own that they sent for Juan Carlos Navarro). Aaron McKie was waived to clear somewhere in the area of $7 mil. Donte Green was eventually turned into Darrell Arthur and Vasquez was traded (too soon) to N.O. for Quincy Pondexter. We all know how Marc Gasol fared since. The Grizzlies are currently 26-14 this year.

Pau Gasol/Lamar Odom/undisclosed pick-- >Kevin Martin/ Luis Scola/ Goran Dragic/ undisclosed pick-- >Chris Paul

Salary cap was $58,000,000

This deal had it all, for all teams involved.

N.O. knew that Chris Paul was going to walk. 0% chance of him ever suiting up for the Hornets again. With the future of the franchise at stake (not only on the court but in terms of finding an owner), N.O. was set to deal their soon to be ex-star for a mountain of loot. Lamar Odom could have stepped in and stabilized the bench unit while also bringing veteran championship experience and leadership to what was going to be a lockerroom full of youngsters. Kevin Martin gave N.O. as viable 20 point a night scorer. Scola could stabilize the frontcourt and give the Hornets a hard nosed, no nonsense rebounding/scoring threat to team with Emeka Okafor. Dragic would provide decent production from the point guard position. The deal also saw both picks (one 1st and one 2nd) to N.O. to continue to build. N.O. takes on $31.12 mil in salary while relinquishing $16.35 mil (+ $14.76 mil bringing their total salary cap to $59,561,786 ($1,561,786 over the cap)

Houston desperately sought Gasol as their centerpiece big to run Kevin McHale’s offense. They had tried to bait L.A. into taking the deal before N.O. was invited to join. The move would have cut into Houston’s cap, allowing flexibility to make moves in the future. Houston takes on $18.74 mil while relinquishing $22.22 mil (-$3.48 mil bringing their total salary cap to $53,516,272 ($4,483,728 under the cap)

The Lakers were searching for the next miracle turnaround for the franchise. Rumors had been floating around about acquiring both Paul and Dwight Howard to lead the Lakers not only to a few more titles in the short term, but also long term after Kobe Bryant’s retirement. The Lakers take on $16.36 mil and relinquish $27.61 mil (-$11.25 mil bringing their total salary cap to $85,038,610 ($27,038,610 over the cap)

Everyone knows how that ended, so I won’t bring it up. But all sides had something good to take away from that trade.

Just a thought to all the other threads (outside of this one) where poster talk about getting Rudy Gay, Kevin Love, Danny Granger or any other great talent and look down on realistic deals that make fiscal and business sense. Or they take a realistic trade and say “add *usually cheap and underrated player* and MAKE them take *one of our useless contracts*”.


Great post. A lot of logic used in your thinking; I like it. Also, I like the breakdown of how the other teams who previously dealt with us are doing. It's not all one-sided as it would appear. Mitch is a great GM, though.

I'm afraid this season this is going to have to take his best work to figure out what to do with a seemingly unhappy Pau coming off the bench and a Dwight who's showing his shot attempts or lack thereof to teammates in the locker room.

On another note, I've always liked Granger; his contract actually end the same time our 2014 plan kicks in. Unfortunately, he got hurt this year, and Indiana is in desperate need of another scorer. Also, why is Indiana going to want Pau? It would take a 3rd team to acquire Granger, IMO.

Things get more complicated since we don't want to take back any long-term money past 2014. It looks like we're looking for a bunch of expiring and short-term K's which narrows our options...
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby cleverdevil on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:26 pm

Chillbongo wrote:^^ :bow:

Fantastic break down.

Wow. NO would have really benefited from that trade & Anthony Davis might've been on the Wizards. John Wall + Anthony Davis?

I AM STILL REALLY PISSED ABOUT THAT CHRIS PAUL TRADE EFF DAVID STERN WOW WE WOULD HAVE BEEN LEGIT AND SAVED DOUGH OMG


Why thank you! It took about 15 minutes and 15 browser windows open, but yeah, as much as the nixing of that deal hurt us, New Orleans could've benefited massively and still could have moved Scola or Odom to most teams for more picks/players. Oh well, such is life. Go Lakers!
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Re: Brooklyn still interested in Howard, no deal on the table

Postby lakersin4 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:26 pm

OX1947 wrote:
lakersin4 wrote:Why would Lebron want to follow in Kobe's shadow? Lebron coming here when we have space is one of the most pipe ideas ever suggested on this board.


Save all that horse (bleep) shadow crap with Stephen A Moron and that (bleep) face across from him. This is about winning championships, I can care less about stupid shadows.

You think Lebron doesn't care about his individual legacy also? He can go to any team except the Lakers or Bulls & be guaranteed to go down as the best player in the history of the franchise. He needs multiple rings to even be considered top 3 here.

All individual stuff aside, he already won a ring without being in LA. If he was still ringless when he could opt out, I could see it for sure, but he has no reason to think he needs to be a Laker to win. If we bring Phil back next season & get things on track, & he's still here when Bron can opt out, I could see that being 1 thing that could maybe sway him. I think every superstar in the league wonders deep down how great Phil could make them. Dwight's probably on that list. Man did Jimmy screw us :bang:
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby cleverdevil on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:28 pm

dwighthowardsdad wrote:
cleverdevil wrote:The problem will all this trade talk is that most (NOT ALL) posters on this (and most other) board(s) is that they fail to think logically when it comes to how moves are made in the NBA. This isn’t NBA2K. You can’t just look at a player’s “overall rating”, age and just match salaries. There is a multitude of reason’s that GM’s trade players beyond skill and contract situations. Some GM’s overvalue players or “fall in love” with a players “talent”, some teams trade to benefit NOW, some teams trade to benefit LATER. The only reason that people have this assertion that the Lakers “swindle” anyone in trades is because we usually the former while our partner in the trade usually is the latter.

And this notion that Mitch Kupchak has a “magic wand” is utterly atrocious. If you look at the past few deals that people qualify as “magic wand” trades, you can logically find reasoning from the other teams to proceed with the transactions.


Pau Gasol/ 2010 2nd round pick (Devin Ebanks) -- > Kwame Brown/Javaris Crittenton/Aaron McKie/Draft Rights to Marc Gasol/ 2008 1st round pick (Donte Green)/ 2010 1st round pick (Greivis Vasquez)

Memphis knew that they wouldn’t win a title with Pau, they wanted to free up some cap space and start to rebuild. Kwame was a $9.1 mil expiring contract. Crittenton was then traded to Washington for a conditional 1st rounder (which incidentally was Memphis’ own that they sent for Juan Carlos Navarro). Aaron McKie was waived to clear somewhere in the area of $7 mil. Donte Green was eventually turned into Darrell Arthur and Vasquez was traded (too soon) to N.O. for Quincy Pondexter. We all know how Marc Gasol fared since. The Grizzlies are currently 26-14 this year.

Pau Gasol/Lamar Odom/undisclosed pick-- >Kevin Martin/ Luis Scola/ Goran Dragic/ undisclosed pick-- >Chris Paul

Salary cap was $58,000,000

This deal had it all, for all teams involved.

N.O. knew that Chris Paul was going to walk. 0% chance of him ever suiting up for the Hornets again. With the future of the franchise at stake (not only on the court but in terms of finding an owner), N.O. was set to deal their soon to be ex-star for a mountain of loot. Lamar Odom could have stepped in and stabilized the bench unit while also bringing veteran championship experience and leadership to what was going to be a lockerroom full of youngsters. Kevin Martin gave N.O. as viable 20 point a night scorer. Scola could stabilize the frontcourt and give the Hornets a hard nosed, no nonsense rebounding/scoring threat to team with Emeka Okafor. Dragic would provide decent production from the point guard position. The deal also saw both picks (one 1st and one 2nd) to N.O. to continue to build. N.O. takes on $31.12 mil in salary while relinquishing $16.35 mil (+ $14.76 mil bringing their total salary cap to $59,561,786 ($1,561,786 over the cap)

Houston desperately sought Gasol as their centerpiece big to run Kevin McHale’s offense. They had tried to bait L.A. into taking the deal before N.O. was invited to join. The move would have cut into Houston’s cap, allowing flexibility to make moves in the future. Houston takes on $18.74 mil while relinquishing $22.22 mil (-$3.48 mil bringing their total salary cap to $53,516,272 ($4,483,728 under the cap)

The Lakers were searching for the next miracle turnaround for the franchise. Rumors had been floating around about acquiring both Paul and Dwight Howard to lead the Lakers not only to a few more titles in the short term, but also long term after Kobe Bryant’s retirement. The Lakers take on $16.36 mil and relinquish $27.61 mil (-$11.25 mil bringing their total salary cap to $85,038,610 ($27,038,610 over the cap)

Everyone knows how that ended, so I won’t bring it up. But all sides had something good to take away from that trade.

Just a thought to all the other threads (outside of this one) where poster talk about getting Rudy Gay, Kevin Love, Danny Granger or any other great talent and look down on realistic deals that make fiscal and business sense. Or they take a realistic trade and say “add *usually cheap and underrated player* and MAKE them take *one of our useless contracts*”.


Great post. A lot of logic used in your thinking; I like it. Also, I like the breakdown of how the other teams who previously dealt with us are doing. It's not all one-sided as it would appear. Mitch is a great GM, though.

I'm afraid this season this is going to have to take his best work to figure out what to do with a seemingly unhappy Pau coming off the bench and a Dwight who's showing his shot attempts or lack thereof to teammates in the locker room.

On another note, I've always liked Granger; his contract actually end the same time our 2014 plan kicks in. Unfortunately, he got hurt this year, and Indiana is in desperate need of another scorer. Also, why is Indiana going to want Pau? It would take a 3rd team to acquire Granger, IMO.

Things get more complicated since we don't want to take back any long-term money past 2014. It looks like we're looking for a bunch of expiring and short-term K's which narrows our options...


I agree. I'm sorry if it came off as me not recognizing Mitch's greatness. But for sure, he is no Wizard, just a great negotiator who knows how to sell someone else on how a deal can also work for them.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby khmrP on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:41 pm

^^^He still deserves credit for being able to "sell" those scenarios to those other teams...you're making sound as if all those scenarios just presented itself and all Mitch had to do was click yes :freak2:
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby purp n gold on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:46 pm

Chillbongo wrote:I AM STILL REALLY PISSED ABOUT THAT CHRIS PAUL TRADE EFF DAVID STERN WOW WE WOULD HAVE BEEN LEGIT AND SAVED DOUGH OMG


This just has to be said every few months or so: Stern & the NBA punished the Lakers for being successful for 30 years, and rewarded the Clippers for being pathetic for 30 years
There are two teams that play in the Staples Center:
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby GoldenKnight on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:47 pm

As soon as Pau is gone we will be a better team, no question, he just doesn't fit anymore. Gordon is a great scorer & Diop is a solid defender, but we need one more piece there & its not a draft pick, give us sessions or henderson as well and we can call it a deal.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby cleverdevil on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:47 pm

khmrP wrote:^^^He still deserves credit for being able to "sell" those scenarios to those other teams...you're making sound as if all those scenarios just presented itself and all Mitch had to do was click yes :freak2:


Not my intention. I'm just trying to denounce what is literally the opposite spectrum side of this in which a lot of posters seem to believe that no team ever wants to trade with us and Mitch "Jedi Mind Trick"s them into taking garbage and giving back gold. Mitch has shown to be, in my opinion, the most adept GM in the league when it comes to working trades. I hold him in the highest regard inside my "Holy Trinity" of current NBA GM's along with Sam Presti from OKC and R.C. Buford from San Antonio.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:58 pm

cleverdevil wrote:
dwighthowardsdad wrote:
cleverdevil wrote:The problem will all this trade talk is that most (NOT ALL) posters on this (and most other) board(s) is that they fail to think logically when it comes to how moves are made in the NBA. This isn’t NBA2K. You can’t just look at a player’s “overall rating”, age and just match salaries. There is a multitude of reason’s that GM’s trade players beyond skill and contract situations. Some GM’s overvalue players or “fall in love” with a players “talent”, some teams trade to benefit NOW, some teams trade to benefit LATER. The only reason that people have this assertion that the Lakers “swindle” anyone in trades is because we usually the former while our partner in the trade usually is the latter.

And this notion that Mitch Kupchak has a “magic wand” is utterly atrocious. If you look at the past few deals that people qualify as “magic wand” trades, you can logically find reasoning from the other teams to proceed with the transactions.


Pau Gasol/ 2010 2nd round pick (Devin Ebanks) -- > Kwame Brown/Javaris Crittenton/Aaron McKie/Draft Rights to Marc Gasol/ 2008 1st round pick (Donte Green)/ 2010 1st round pick (Greivis Vasquez)

Memphis knew that they wouldn’t win a title with Pau, they wanted to free up some cap space and start to rebuild. Kwame was a $9.1 mil expiring contract. Crittenton was then traded to Washington for a conditional 1st rounder (which incidentally was Memphis’ own that they sent for Juan Carlos Navarro). Aaron McKie was waived to clear somewhere in the area of $7 mil. Donte Green was eventually turned into Darrell Arthur and Vasquez was traded (too soon) to N.O. for Quincy Pondexter. We all know how Marc Gasol fared since. The Grizzlies are currently 26-14 this year.

Pau Gasol/Lamar Odom/undisclosed pick-- >Kevin Martin/ Luis Scola/ Goran Dragic/ undisclosed pick-- >Chris Paul

Salary cap was $58,000,000

This deal had it all, for all teams involved.

N.O. knew that Chris Paul was going to walk. 0% chance of him ever suiting up for the Hornets again. With the future of the franchise at stake (not only on the court but in terms of finding an owner), N.O. was set to deal their soon to be ex-star for a mountain of loot. Lamar Odom could have stepped in and stabilized the bench unit while also bringing veteran championship experience and leadership to what was going to be a lockerroom full of youngsters. Kevin Martin gave N.O. as viable 20 point a night scorer. Scola could stabilize the frontcourt and give the Hornets a hard nosed, no nonsense rebounding/scoring threat to team with Emeka Okafor. Dragic would provide decent production from the point guard position. The deal also saw both picks (one 1st and one 2nd) to N.O. to continue to build. N.O. takes on $31.12 mil in salary while relinquishing $16.35 mil (+ $14.76 mil bringing their total salary cap to $59,561,786 ($1,561,786 over the cap)

Houston desperately sought Gasol as their centerpiece big to run Kevin McHale’s offense. They had tried to bait L.A. into taking the deal before N.O. was invited to join. The move would have cut into Houston’s cap, allowing flexibility to make moves in the future. Houston takes on $18.74 mil while relinquishing $22.22 mil (-$3.48 mil bringing their total salary cap to $53,516,272 ($4,483,728 under the cap)

The Lakers were searching for the next miracle turnaround for the franchise. Rumors had been floating around about acquiring both Paul and Dwight Howard to lead the Lakers not only to a few more titles in the short term, but also long term after Kobe Bryant’s retirement. The Lakers take on $16.36 mil and relinquish $27.61 mil (-$11.25 mil bringing their total salary cap to $85,038,610 ($27,038,610 over the cap)

Everyone knows how that ended, so I won’t bring it up. But all sides had something good to take away from that trade.

Just a thought to all the other threads (outside of this one) where poster talk about getting Rudy Gay, Kevin Love, Danny Granger or any other great talent and look down on realistic deals that make fiscal and business sense. Or they take a realistic trade and say “add *usually cheap and underrated player* and MAKE them take *one of our useless contracts*”.


Great post. A lot of logic used in your thinking; I like it. Also, I like the breakdown of how the other teams who previously dealt with us are doing. It's not all one-sided as it would appear. Mitch is a great GM, though.

I'm afraid this season this is going to have to take his best work to figure out what to do with a seemingly unhappy Pau coming off the bench and a Dwight who's showing his shot attempts or lack thereof to teammates in the locker room.

On another note, I've always liked Granger; his contract actually end the same time our 2014 plan kicks in. Unfortunately, he got hurt this year, and Indiana is in desperate need of another scorer. Also, why is Indiana going to want Pau? It would take a 3rd team to acquire Granger, IMO.

Things get more complicated since we don't want to take back any long-term money past 2014. It looks like we're looking for a bunch of expiring and short-term K's which narrows our options...


I agree. I'm sorry if it came off as me not recognizing Mitch's greatness. But for sure, he is no Wizard, just a great negotiator who knows how to sell someone else on how a deal can also work for them.


No need to aplogize. Your point came across clearly.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:50 pm

cleverdevil wrote:
dwighthowardsdad wrote:
cleverdevil wrote:The problem will all this trade talk is that most (NOT ALL) posters on this (and most other) board(s) is that they fail to think logically when it comes to how moves are made in the NBA. This isn’t NBA2K. You can’t just look at a player’s “overall rating”, age and just match salaries. There is a multitude of reason’s that GM’s trade players beyond skill and contract situations. Some GM’s overvalue players or “fall in love” with a players “talent”, some teams trade to benefit NOW, some teams trade to benefit LATER. The only reason that people have this assertion that the Lakers “swindle” anyone in trades is because we usually the former while our partner in the trade usually is the latter.

And this notion that Mitch Kupchak has a “magic wand” is utterly atrocious. If you look at the past few deals that people qualify as “magic wand” trades, you can logically find reasoning from the other teams to proceed with the transactions.


Pau Gasol/ 2010 2nd round pick (Devin Ebanks) -- > Kwame Brown/Javaris Crittenton/Aaron McKie/Draft Rights to Marc Gasol/ 2008 1st round pick (Donte Green)/ 2010 1st round pick (Greivis Vasquez)

Memphis knew that they wouldn’t win a title with Pau, they wanted to free up some cap space and start to rebuild. Kwame was a $9.1 mil expiring contract. Crittenton was then traded to Washington for a conditional 1st rounder (which incidentally was Memphis’ own that they sent for Juan Carlos Navarro). Aaron McKie was waived to clear somewhere in the area of $7 mil. Donte Green was eventually turned into Darrell Arthur and Vasquez was traded (too soon) to N.O. for Quincy Pondexter. We all know how Marc Gasol fared since. The Grizzlies are currently 26-14 this year.

Pau Gasol/Lamar Odom/undisclosed pick-- >Kevin Martin/ Luis Scola/ Goran Dragic/ undisclosed pick-- >Chris Paul

Salary cap was $58,000,000

This deal had it all, for all teams involved.

N.O. knew that Chris Paul was going to walk. 0% chance of him ever suiting up for the Hornets again. With the future of the franchise at stake (not only on the court but in terms of finding an owner), N.O. was set to deal their soon to be ex-star for a mountain of loot. Lamar Odom could have stepped in and stabilized the bench unit while also bringing veteran championship experience and leadership to what was going to be a lockerroom full of youngsters. Kevin Martin gave N.O. as viable 20 point a night scorer. Scola could stabilize the frontcourt and give the Hornets a hard nosed, no nonsense rebounding/scoring threat to team with Emeka Okafor. Dragic would provide decent production from the point guard position. The deal also saw both picks (one 1st and one 2nd) to N.O. to continue to build. N.O. takes on $31.12 mil in salary while relinquishing $16.35 mil (+ $14.76 mil bringing their total salary cap to $59,561,786 ($1,561,786 over the cap)

Houston desperately sought Gasol as their centerpiece big to run Kevin McHale’s offense. They had tried to bait L.A. into taking the deal before N.O. was invited to join. The move would have cut into Houston’s cap, allowing flexibility to make moves in the future. Houston takes on $18.74 mil while relinquishing $22.22 mil (-$3.48 mil bringing their total salary cap to $53,516,272 ($4,483,728 under the cap)

The Lakers were searching for the next miracle turnaround for the franchise. Rumors had been floating around about acquiring both Paul and Dwight Howard to lead the Lakers not only to a few more titles in the short term, but also long term after Kobe Bryant’s retirement. The Lakers take on $16.36 mil and relinquish $27.61 mil (-$11.25 mil bringing their total salary cap to $85,038,610 ($27,038,610 over the cap)

Everyone knows how that ended, so I won’t bring it up. But all sides had something good to take away from that trade.

Just a thought to all the other threads (outside of this one) where poster talk about getting Rudy Gay, Kevin Love, Danny Granger or any other great talent and look down on realistic deals that make fiscal and business sense. Or they take a realistic trade and say “add *usually cheap and underrated player* and MAKE them take *one of our useless contracts*”.


Great post. A lot of logic used in your thinking; I like it. Also, I like the breakdown of how the other teams who previously dealt with us are doing. It's not all one-sided as it would appear. Mitch is a great GM, though.

I'm afraid this season this is going to have to take his best work to figure out what to do with a seemingly unhappy Pau coming off the bench and a Dwight who's showing his shot attempts or lack thereof to teammates in the locker room.

On another note, I've always liked Granger; his contract actually end the same time our 2014 plan kicks in. Unfortunately, he got hurt this year, and Indiana is in desperate need of another scorer. Also, why is Indiana going to want Pau? It would take a 3rd team to acquire Granger, IMO.

Things get more complicated since we don't want to take back any long-term money past 2014. It looks like we're looking for a bunch of expiring and short-term K's which narrows our options...


I agree. I'm sorry if it came off as me not recognizing Mitch's greatness. But for sure, he is no Wizard, just a great negotiator who knows how to sell someone else on how a deal can also work for them.


I don't think that anyone here really thought it was MAGIC, my good man. Mitch has the ability to aggressively work out these deals with other teams. He was the first to get superstars to take a paycut and join a contender (04), and the first to broker a deal that consisted of nothing but expirings and junk (08). Don't forget that he traded the #2 center in the league for the #1 center in the league. That's all pretty good brokering, IMHO.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby cleverdevil on Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:03 pm

I don't think that anyone here really thought it was MAGIC, my good man. Mitch has the ability to aggressively work out these deals with other teams. He was the first to get superstars to take a paycut and join a contender (04), and the first to broker a deal that consisted of nothing but expirings and junk (08). Don't forget that he traded the #2 center in the league for the #1 center in the league. That's all pretty good brokering, IMHO.


I absolutely agree. Maybe this is all just me being fed up with the exact wording of "magic wand" and "do it Mitch" all over these boards. I truly hope that maybe there is something out there that all of us outside of the NBA GM circles don't even know is possible yet, but how many of these bullets can he possibly have in the gun? If you are to deal Pau now (which I am still on the record as thinking is a mistake) it is my personal opinion, which I put down earlier in the thread, that a Diop/Gordon/unprotected (lotto) pick is a great get. Maybe Mitch proves me completely wrong and somehow manufactures a deal to bring in a Rudy Gay, and I will not lose one wink of sleep knowing that I was wrong. I just don't see it.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:11 pm

I didn't think Rudy Gay was possible, and I still don't. However, his contract ends in 2014/2015; nevertheless with the cost cutting move that Memphis made today to stay under the CAP, I don't think Rudy will be moved this year, obviously...
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby cleverdevil on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:13 pm

Yeah, that was the first thing I thought of when I heard that news. Obviously I am not privy to the discussions between GM's but it appears that there are no blockbuster trades to be made at least from the outside looking in.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion: rumors, rumblings, ruminations

Postby Chillbongo on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:38 pm

purp n gold wrote:
Chillbongo wrote:I AM STILL REALLY PISSED ABOUT THAT CHRIS PAUL TRADE EFF DAVID STERN WOW WE WOULD HAVE BEEN LEGIT AND SAVED DOUGH OMG


This just has to be said every few months or so: Stern & the NBA punished the Lakers for being successful for 30 years, and rewarded the Clippers for being pathetic for 30 years


Not only that, New Orleans (which the NBA "owned" at the time), would have benefited as well as Houston, as well as LAL.

Stern had no idea Harden would be on the block, so you can't use the "hindsight" argument that Houston turned out better this way. Who knows, maybe they would've gotten Harden anyways. But the way they treated their "own team" in NO........ :man4: Come on Stern, you really think Davis is going to make his career in NO?
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