TWC/Charter/Verizon/AT&T/Cox/DTV Ch. Guide (see 1st post)

Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby nthydro on Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:18 pm

revgen wrote:^The bitrate on the TWC stream is 11000 kbps at 1920x1080i resolution. That's way too low for a stream that uses the ancient MPEG-2 codec. A stream using the MPEG-4 AVC codec (like DirecTV and DISH use) wouldn't look bad at that kind of bitrate.

That's why you get those pixelations in motion sequences.

If they're going to stream the broadcast at 11000kbps, they should at least bump the resolution down to 720p to reduce the artifacts.


Isn't that why sport networks like ESPN use 720P?
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby revgen on Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:45 pm

nthydro wrote:
revgen wrote:^The bitrate on the TWC stream is 11000 kbps at 1920x1080i resolution. That's way too low for a stream that uses the ancient MPEG-2 codec. A stream using the MPEG-4 AVC codec (like DirecTV and DISH use) wouldn't look bad at that kind of bitrate.

That's why you get those pixelations in motion sequences.

If they're going to stream the broadcast at 11000kbps, they should at least bump the resolution down to 720p to reduce the artifacts.


Isn't that why sport networks like ESPN use 720P?


The sports networks themselves usually send a high-bitrate feed to the cable provider, so it doesn't matter what the resolution is.

The providers, with the exception of Verizon FIOS, usually downgrade the bitrate on their networks. Some are worse than others.
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby LTLakerFan on Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:54 pm

revgen wrote:^The bitrate on the TWC stream is 11000 kbps at 1920x1080i resolution. That's way too low for a stream that uses the ancient MPEG-2 codec. A stream using the MPEG-4 AVC codec (like DirecTV and DISH use) wouldn't look bad at that kind of bitrate.

That's why you get those pixelations in motion sequences.

If they're going to stream the broadcast at 11000kbps, they should at least bump the resolution down to 720p to reduce the artifacts.


Rev, I hope you're just describing this bit starved situation for what TW Cable itself puts out. When Charter gets a good uplink I get a great picture, and same with what I've seen from DTV and Dish. What I mean is that I'm hoping their production in the field and uplinks to the "bird" for distribution is as good as my benchmark now (usually) of ESPN and ABC, NBC, CBS.

If they suck at that, after this whole stressful period, they should rightfully so get killed and embarrassed on the major forums that cover stations' image quality. Fox was good and so was KCAL.
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby revgen on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:34 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:
revgen wrote:^The bitrate on the TWC stream is 11000 kbps at 1920x1080i resolution. That's way too low for a stream that uses the ancient MPEG-2 codec. A stream using the MPEG-4 AVC codec (like DirecTV and DISH use) wouldn't look bad at that kind of bitrate.

That's why you get those pixelations in motion sequences.

If they're going to stream the broadcast at 11000kbps, they should at least bump the resolution down to 720p to reduce the artifacts.


Rev, I hope you're just describing this bit starved situation for what TW Cable itself puts out. When Charter gets a good uplink I get a great picture, and same with what I've seen from DTV and Dish. What I mean is that I'm hoping their production in the field and uplinks to the "bird" for distribution is as good as my benchmark now (usually) of ESPN and ABC, NBC, CBS.

If they suck at that, after this whole stressful period, they should rightfully so get killed and embarrassed on the major forums that cover stations' image quality. Fox was good and so was KCAL.


Yes, I'm describing TWC's stream to my digital cable box.

I don't have access to Charter, DTV, or DISH. All I do know is that DISH and DirecTV utilize MPEG-4 AVC for streaming to end users, which is a superior video codec, so lower bitrates probably don't look nearly as bad as they do for MPEG-2. I'm not aware of what codec Charter uses.

I very much doubt the stream being sent through the satellite is the same one that goes to the digital cable box at home. I believe recompression is being done to save bandwidth.
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby LakerFan247 on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:06 am



hahahahah, exactly how i feel
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby revgen on Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:34 am

^Anybody who isn't a hardcore Laker fan won't understand what the hell he's talking about. :man10:
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby NewDynasty on Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:22 am

I feel exactly like that guy feels. I agree with him, we should organnize a protest...hey club lakers want to help organize one? I would definitely go participate. Hate twc.
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby nthydro on Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:25 am

revgen wrote:^Anybody who isn't a hardcore Laker fan won't understand what the hell he's talking about. :man10:


LOL @ "more bigger"
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby nthydro on Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:27 am

revgen wrote:
LTLakerFan wrote:
revgen wrote:^The bitrate on the TWC stream is 11000 kbps at 1920x1080i resolution. That's way too low for a stream that uses the ancient MPEG-2 codec. A stream using the MPEG-4 AVC codec (like DirecTV and DISH use) wouldn't look bad at that kind of bitrate.

That's why you get those pixelations in motion sequences.

If they're going to stream the broadcast at 11000kbps, they should at least bump the resolution down to 720p to reduce the artifacts.


Rev, I hope you're just describing this bit starved situation for what TW Cable itself puts out. When Charter gets a good uplink I get a great picture, and same with what I've seen from DTV and Dish. What I mean is that I'm hoping their production in the field and uplinks to the "bird" for distribution is as good as my benchmark now (usually) of ESPN and ABC, NBC, CBS.

If they suck at that, after this whole stressful period, they should rightfully so get killed and embarrassed on the major forums that cover stations' image quality. Fox was good and so was KCAL.


Yes, I'm describing TWC's stream to my digital cable box.

I don't have access to Charter, DTV, or DISH. All I do know is that DISH and DirecTV utilize MPEG-4 AVC for streaming to end users, which is a superior video codec, so lower bitrates probably don't look nearly as bad as they do for MPEG-2. I'm not aware of what codec Charter uses.

I very much doubt the stream being sent through the satellite is the same one that goes to the digital cable box at home. I believe recompression is being done to save bandwidth.


Wouldn't the type of TV you have play a role in the picture quality as well?
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby revgen on Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:52 pm

nthydro wrote:
revgen wrote:
LTLakerFan wrote:
revgen wrote:^The bitrate on the TWC stream is 11000 kbps at 1920x1080i resolution. That's way too low for a stream that uses the ancient MPEG-2 codec. A stream using the MPEG-4 AVC codec (like DirecTV and DISH use) wouldn't look bad at that kind of bitrate.

That's why you get those pixelations in motion sequences.

If they're going to stream the broadcast at 11000kbps, they should at least bump the resolution down to 720p to reduce the artifacts.


Rev, I hope you're just describing this bit starved situation for what TW Cable itself puts out. When Charter gets a good uplink I get a great picture, and same with what I've seen from DTV and Dish. What I mean is that I'm hoping their production in the field and uplinks to the "bird" for distribution is as good as my benchmark now (usually) of ESPN and ABC, NBC, CBS.

If they suck at that, after this whole stressful period, they should rightfully so get killed and embarrassed on the major forums that cover stations' image quality. Fox was good and so was KCAL.


Yes, I'm describing TWC's stream to my digital cable box.

I don't have access to Charter, DTV, or DISH. All I do know is that DISH and DirecTV utilize MPEG-4 AVC for streaming to end users, which is a superior video codec, so lower bitrates probably don't look nearly as bad as they do for MPEG-2. I'm not aware of what codec Charter uses.

I very much doubt the stream being sent through the satellite is the same one that goes to the digital cable box at home. I believe recompression is being done to save bandwidth.


Wouldn't the type of TV you have play a role in the picture quality as well?


The bigger the TV, the worse the image quality is going to look.
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby LTLakerFan on Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:54 pm

If it is high quality the larger the display is magnifies the faults. The fact it can look absolutely glorious with a great signal from an event or venue doesn't excuse the crap when you see it. Like the couple of cameras, or one at the very least, from every one of TNT's broadcasts last year looked horrendous. Just what Revgen is describing above..... bit starved and full of blocks of pixels artifacting. It's a very nice projector on an over 8' wide, very bright type of screen surface.

The smaller the display the less any of this stuff is noticed. So my stance is if Fox West and KCAL both could do very well game to game there is no excuse for TW not to.
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby Snake Eyes on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:07 pm

I get what he is saying. In the long run this TV deal is a good thing though. Yeah, us fan are losing out, but isn't the deal going to allow the Lakers to pay luxury taxes for a while?
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby XXIV on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:17 pm

I'm surprised there hasn't been any news/updates on the negotiations. We're about a week away from the season debut, and TWC is still the only provider that has the channel. Very frustrating.
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby nthydro on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:19 pm

revgen wrote:
nthydro wrote:
revgen wrote:
LTLakerFan wrote:
revgen wrote:^The bitrate on the TWC stream is 11000 kbps at 1920x1080i resolution. That's way too low for a stream that uses the ancient MPEG-2 codec. A stream using the MPEG-4 AVC codec (like DirecTV and DISH use) wouldn't look bad at that kind of bitrate.

That's why you get those pixelations in motion sequences.

If they're going to stream the broadcast at 11000kbps, they should at least bump the resolution down to 720p to reduce the artifacts.


Rev, I hope you're just describing this bit starved situation for what TW Cable itself puts out. When Charter gets a good uplink I get a great picture, and same with what I've seen from DTV and Dish. What I mean is that I'm hoping their production in the field and uplinks to the "bird" for distribution is as good as my benchmark now (usually) of ESPN and ABC, NBC, CBS.

If they suck at that, after this whole stressful period, they should rightfully so get killed and embarrassed on the major forums that cover stations' image quality. Fox was good and so was KCAL.


Yes, I'm describing TWC's stream to my digital cable box.

I don't have access to Charter, DTV, or DISH. All I do know is that DISH and DirecTV utilize MPEG-4 AVC for streaming to end users, which is a superior video codec, so lower bitrates probably don't look nearly as bad as they do for MPEG-2. I'm not aware of what codec Charter uses.

I very much doubt the stream being sent through the satellite is the same one that goes to the digital cable box at home. I believe recompression is being done to save bandwidth.


Wouldn't the type of TV you have play a role in the picture quality as well?


The bigger the TV, the worse the image quality is going to look.


I mean as far as the display's refresh rates, wouldn't it affect fast motion videos such as sports?
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby nthydro on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:23 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:If it is high quality the larger the display is magnifies the faults. The fact it can look absolutely glorious with a great signal from an event or venue doesn't excuse the crap when you see it. Like the couple of cameras, or one at the very least, from every one of TNT's broadcasts last year looked horrendous. Just what Revgen is describing above..... bit starved and full of blocks of pixels artifacting. It's a very nice projector on an over 8' wide, very bright type of screen surface.

The smaller the display the less any of this stuff is noticed. So my stance is if Fox West and KCAL both could do very well game to game there is no excuse for TW not to.


Is this channel specific or just TIme Warner Cable in general? If another provider like Cox or Verizon gets Sportsnet, will it still look like crap or better? I used to have Time Warner and their tv quality was not too bad. I was watching on a 50" plasma.
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby therealdeal on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:25 pm

I watch on a 50" HD LCD tv and it looks just fine to me.

Maybe I'm not as discriminating as others, but I have no problem with it.
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby CaCHooKa Man on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:33 pm

until time warner completely switches from mpeg2 to h264, their HD channels will always look subpar. i have a newer box that supports h264 but a lot of households dont so that would be a problem.
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby nthydro on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:35 pm

therealdeal wrote:I watch on a 50" HD LCD tv and it looks just fine to me.

Maybe I'm not as discriminating as others, but I have no problem with it.


Well some people are more sensitive to the motion blurring and artifacts. But yeah, you're definitely one of the least [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] retentive people on this board LOL.
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby revgen on Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:27 pm

CaCHooKa Man wrote:until time warner completely switches from mpeg2 to h264, their HD channels will always look subpar. i have a newer box that supports h264 but a lot of households dont so that would be a problem.


Agreed.

I live in Ventura County. I haven't gotten any news of h264/MPEG-4 AVC here. I'll call them and find out.
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby LTLakerFan on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:31 pm

nthydro wrote:
LTLakerFan wrote:If it is high quality the larger the display is magnifies the faults. The fact it can look absolutely glorious with a great signal from an event or venue doesn't excuse the crap when you see it. Like the couple of cameras, or one at the very least, from every one of TNT's broadcasts last year looked horrendous. Just what Revgen is describing above..... bit starved and full of blocks of pixels artifacting. It's a very nice projector on an over 8' wide, very bright type of screen surface.

The smaller the display the less any of this stuff is noticed. So my stance is if Fox West and KCAL both could do very well game to game there is no excuse for TW not to.


Is this channel specific or just TIme Warner Cable in general? If another provider like Cox or Verizon gets Sportsnet, will it still look like crap or better? I used to have Time Warner and their tv quality was not too bad. I was watching on a 50" plasma.


Nothing about Time Warner as I don't have them and am in Charter territory. Just saying when it is done right from the venue and camera equipment and truck and uplink to the satellite for all the providers, sporting events and HDTV in general can look spectacular. I'm not a fan of Charter for other reasons but picture quality isn't one of them when they are given a good signal on whichever channel.

Only 2 years ago ESPN used to look like crap with what they were sending out. A game with a parquet floor, the floor was a crawling mess. Then BOOM they and ABC turned it right around to where now they put out consistently great feeds for the providers. I hope TWC's gear.....all of it....the cameras, the trucks and their uplinks is all state of the art. As Revgen has said this is totally separate from what their "cable service" gives its customers.
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby LTLakerFan on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:35 pm

nthydro wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I watch on a 50" HD LCD tv and it looks just fine to me.

Maybe I'm not as discriminating as others, but I have no problem with it.


Well some people are more sensitive to the motion blurring and artifacts. But yeah, you're definitely one of the least [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] retentive people on this board LOL.


LOL at the "a" word preceding retentive being bleeped out.... :man10:
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby nthydro on Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:32 pm

blacked out :bang: :bang:
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby EvoXR1 on Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:33 pm

wtf?!?!?! blacked out!!! screw you time warner!!!
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby lakersyunowin on Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:37 pm

the artist formerly known as fklukewalton, fksteveblake, and fkmikebrown
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Re: TWC and Lakers Sign Long-Term Agreement for Lakers Games

Postby WilliamHaven on Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:54 pm

I wish the HD quality wasn't so crummy. Maybe we should tell the players to not run so fast :bang:
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