Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby easyguy on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:37 pm

gill wrote:Where's the part where they call him out on not getting back in transition if he doesn't get a whistle on the offensive end? :man12:



I think Howard mentioned it.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby Lakeshow24 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:45 pm

easyguy wrote:
borri wrote:^^^

He said INSTEAD of locking his own man down. Which means he should be worrying about locking his own man down. Saying the same thing as you. He's just given a plausible explanation why Kobe is not doing his job on D.



Ok, Maybe I'm just attacking the notion that Kobe was worrying about his teammates defense. Because to show that he "worries" he have to show that he is running around helping everyone out, because he is not doing that. He neither guard his man or other players' man.


Yes, Borri has it right. You misinterpreted my argument based on semantics. I agree with you, Kobe is focusing too much on worrying about whether his teammate(s) will get penetrated and time and time again it's Kobe who needs to worry about his man.

With regards to the video examples in this thread though, they aren't very strong evidence. Show me some clips of Westbrook blowing by Kobe and there's more evidence. Kobe, and all players, have to play team defense which does mean sealing off passing lanes, penetration lanes, etc,. They all have to somewhat focus on team defense concepts unless the player he is guarding is in an iso situation.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby trodgers on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:47 pm

I find it strange how unwilling we are to trust one another to defend 1 on 1.

Totally agree that Kobe chases after steals too much.
MWP moves to help too much (this is catastrophic because he's typically guarding the best scorer!).

Jamison...I don't even know. He seems to do a great job against smaller guys. His length is incredible.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby Lakeshow24 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:49 pm

Weezy wrote:It's bad, you can't argue with the video, and what we see quite often, pretty much every game at some point. The main thing he does from what I see is the ball watching thing mentioned. That's not terrible in itself, he could watch the ball if he was right up on his man and could maybe put a hand on him to feel where he's at or if he starts running or whatever. He doesn't do that though, he starts to drift from his man more and more, as if he's going to be able to play help defense on somebody on the opposite side of the court. I especially no reason to do this when there's already help in the paint right there with Dwight and another guard out there by the 3 point line even closer to the ball-handler.

There's no excuse for dumb mistakes like that, or playing lazy and not boxing out, or doing as much gambling as he does, which only rarely results in steals. The only thing I can make an excuse for is when a quicker, younger guy gets by him off the dribble. Kobe used to be very good at that sort of defense, he could be lock down good, but he's 34, he's in his 17th season, you can't expect his defense to be amazing at this point. The not leaving his man stuff is not about age though, it's just poor defense.


This^. He definitely has a tendency to drift and pretend as if he's going to play help defense clear across the other side of the court. Then he scrambles all the way back to guard his open 3 point shot which of course burns Kobe time and time again. It's more of a not paying attention blunder and less of an age thing.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby dak22 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:20 pm

The long-term picture about kobe's defense isn't because of how bad it is, but rather it compounds the biggest isssue with this team: which is a playstyle bent on conforming to needs of kobe bryant vs the teams strengths/oppents weaknesses in general.

This wouldn't be a problem if kobe was in his prime or if lebron/durant were rotting on some team in the middle of nowhere. Unfortunately for us, both aren't the case.

The Lakers can be still champs but until they ditch that this notion of eating first and play with a sense of purpose based on the matchups, they're not going far even if phil cameback.

A kobe-led team trying to win the marquee matchup against a lebron/durant led team this day in age is a recipe for disaster in a 7 game series. The talent discrepancy isn't large b/w both teams for it not to cost us, especially with father time breathing down kobe's neck.

Like people have alluded to, whose going to reel kobe in to buy into a concept that doesn't showcase him? There's only one guy I know and he ain't phil. However, he is one worst starting point guards in the history of the game. That says it all about the dilemma.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby hollywood swinger on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:25 pm

yup kobe sucks :man9:
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby borri on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:40 pm

Lakeshow24 wrote:
Yes, Borri has it right. You misinterpreted my argument based on semantics. I agree with you, Kobe is focusing too much on worrying about whether his teammate(s) will get penetrated and time and time again it's Kobe who needs to worry about his man.


ROFL. That just sounds wrong. :man10: :man12: :man9:
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby revgen on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:44 pm

Part of being a "fastbreak team" is turning the ball over and getting easy baskets. That requires some "gambling" in the passing lanes. Kobe just does a horrible job of doing it.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:53 pm

thkthebest wrote:Kobe's defense is really bad. Teams actually used to avoid Kobe even when he was playing lazy defense, but now, it looks more and more like they're game planning to exploit him on defense.


Agreed. Everything in that write-up is spot on. I don't know why so many are taking shots at the "examples" or calling it Kobe bashing. These observations should be clear to everyone. He is not even trying to lock his man down except until the last 2 minutes of a game. He is clearly trying to conserve energy. How many times has he switched after screens lately? He shoots a terrible contested shot despite wide open shooters and then points to a guard or Metta to help in transition.

Look what Pop did to him in the SA game. Everyone jumped on Gasol for not calling time out, or Metta for not calling time out, etc. But Green got a wide open look because Kobe was lazy coming around screens -- which was EXACTLY WHAT POP PREDICTED would happen. Tony Parker after the game said so -- "we knew Kobe wouldn't expect us to go to his man and that he doesn't like to fight through screens." WOW!! That was totally calling Kobe out as the guy "we are going at" to win the game. Denver did the same with Aflalo.

He needs to play less minutes and focus less on getting his 28 per game. Granted, he is out only play maker right now. Hopefully, Nash will address that and Kobe will have more energy to do his damn job on that end of the floor.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby Punk-101 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:23 pm

Kobe's defense = Trying to have a conversation with John Stockton in the summer while sitting in beach chairs.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:44 pm

Funny thing about Kobe is if anyone ever brought up how his defense has fallen off he'd just insult the person by calling them an idiot and that no one else has any idea what they're talking about.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby dj vitus on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:12 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Funny thing about Kobe is if anyone ever brought up how his defense has fallen off he'd just insult the person by calling them an idiot and that no one else has any idea what they're talking about.

He won't call them an idiot. He'll say, "Well, I wouldn't say idiotic, but..." :man10:
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby The Original 81 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:18 pm

I really don't think the biggest Kobe fan could say that his defense hasn't been awful with a straight face.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby davriver290 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:08 pm

Kobe is not the sole reason why we are stuggling. But he does factor into as much as everyone else does. He gambles, and when gets pinned on Screens or if there are off screens, he makes his teammate switch all the time causing a confusion on the defensive end at times. If he wants to go about it this way, him metta and the PG have to go over how they will go about this cause its causing players to get opens at times.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby Ariza3 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:10 pm

When Dwight got here many times he and Metta have said that guys should NOT gamble...while during that time Kobe has continually said that they CAN gamble more with Dwight here now.

Guys gotta get on the same page defensively.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby Harrison5394 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:19 pm

This isn't a Lakers forum, it's a Kobe forum. It's funny how many of you will just disappear from being Lakers fans once Kobe retires. Pathetic marks.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:20 pm

Harrison5394 wrote:This isn't a Lakers forum, it's a Kobe forum. It's funny how many of you will just disappear from being Lakers fans once Kobe retires. Pathetic marks.


My name isn't Mark though.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby jjin28 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:07 pm

man. Eff it. Heres the truth. Kobe 18 seasons, mid 30's, 5 rings. He can and deserves to take a play off here n there, or heck, even the entire game if mamba wants. But the other 14 playas have no excuse to take a play off. Maybe gasol can have 3 plays off bc hes been there too, but not the rest, n def not dantoni to be calling out kobe like he did. That foo is pringles and he aint won ish. Kobe is a macro guy, all others is a micro guy. They dont see the big picture, and thats a freaking ship!
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby jjin28 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:10 pm

Doc Brown wrote:
Harrison5394 wrote:This isn't a Lakers forum, it's a Kobe forum. It's funny how many of you will just disappear from being Lakers fans once Kobe retires. Pathetic marks.


My name isn't Mark though.

lol..great response
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby revgen on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:11 pm

Harrison5394 wrote:This isn't a Lakers forum, it's a Kobe forum. It's funny how many of you will just disappear from being Lakers fans once Kobe retires. Pathetic marks.


jjin28 wrote:man. Eff it. Heres the truth. Kobe 18 seasons, mid 30's, 5 rings. He can and deserves to take a play off here n there, or heck, even the entire game if mamba wants. But the other 14 playas have no excuse to take a play off.


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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby cthroatgtr on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:27 pm

How about a video of all the Lakers not just Kobe...always amazes me that people will take to such lengths to single out Kobe either pro or con. The fact that he is even productive in his 17th season is pretty amazing. Most guys after 10 years start to lose their lateral quickness. It comes with mileage, injuries etc. Guys just find other ways to play.

You could take a number of all time greats that didn't play any defense...but in this case the issues are deeper than that. You start with what is now a 1 pass and chuck offense. You want to get beat in transition...chuck a bunch of 3s and do that with an older team. Or you could do what Brown did and practice them long and hard so they had no legs. Reality is that Pau can no longer play PF very well. He needs to play center. So you probably need to trade him as he is just a slow out of position center playing PF. MWP lost his mobility a long time ago. Reconditioned he is better but still is more bull in a china shop on offense and routinely burned on defense. Dwight tries to block everything...that is one of the issues with offensive rebounds (and poor rotation). Team also collapses way too much. Jamison at PF means no defense. Really other than Dwight team isn't very good defensively and then add in Dwight trying to block too many shots and a coach that doesn't know defense....good mix.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby jjin28 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:31 pm

revgen wrote:
Harrison5394 wrote:This isn't a Lakers forum, it's a Kobe forum. It's funny how many of you will just disappear from being Lakers fans once Kobe retires. Pathetic marks.


jjin28 wrote:man. Eff it. Heres the truth. Kobe 18 seasons, mid 30's, 5 rings. He can and deserves to take a play off here n there, or heck, even the entire game if mamba wants. But the other 14 playas have no excuse to take a play off.


Oh me! Oh my! :man4:

how can you even link me to a quote i wasnt even responding to. Anyways, u sound like ralph lawler. :man12:
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby JGC on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:40 pm

cthroatgtr wrote:How about a video of all the Lakers not just Kobe...always amazes me that people will take to such lengths to single out Kobe either pro or con. The fact that he is even productive in his 17th season is pretty amazing. Most guys after 10 years start to lose their lateral quickness. It comes with mileage, injuries etc. Guys just find other ways to play.

You could take a number of all time greats that didn't play any defense...but in this case the issues are deeper than that. You start with what is now a 1 pass and chuck offense. You want to get beat in transition...chuck a bunch of 3s and do that with an older team. Or you could do what Brown did and practice them long and hard so they had no legs. Reality is that Pau can no longer play PF very well. He needs to play center. So you probably need to trade him as he is just a slow out of position center playing PF. MWP lost his mobility a long time ago. Reconditioned he is better but still is more bull in a china shop on offense and routinely burned on defense. Dwight tries to block everything...that is one of the issues with offensive rebounds (and poor rotation). Team also collapses way too much. Jamison at PF means no defense. Really other than Dwight team isn't very good defensively and then add in Dwight trying to block too many shots and a coach that doesn't know defense....good mix.


I think the idea is that if he can be as productive as he is on offense, then why couldn't he be productive on defense especially on a team with multiple weapons where he doesn't have to expend so much offensively? I mean, you say he is 'productive' but that is such an understatement. He has enough in the tank to lead the league in scoring. It's not like he's been reduced to bench player and then being singled out for not being an elite shutdown defender. I think people would rather see a little more effort given on the defensive end and are more than understanding that doing so might come at the expense of some offense at this point in his career.

Also, everything will always center on Kobe. He's the leader of this team and as he goes, the Lakers go. He'll shoulder the majority of the credit if we succeed, and bear the majority of the responsibility shall we fail.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby cthroatgtr on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:47 pm

JGC wrote:
cthroatgtr wrote:How about a video of all the Lakers not just Kobe...always amazes me that people will take to such lengths to single out Kobe either pro or con. The fact that he is even productive in his 17th season is pretty amazing. Most guys after 10 years start to lose their lateral quickness. It comes with mileage, injuries etc. Guys just find other ways to play.

You could take a number of all time greats that didn't play any defense...but in this case the issues are deeper than that. You start with what is now a 1 pass and chuck offense. You want to get beat in transition...chuck a bunch of 3s and do that with an older team. Or you could do what Brown did and practice them long and hard so they had no legs. Reality is that Pau can no longer play PF very well. He needs to play center. So you probably need to trade him as he is just a slow out of position center playing PF. MWP lost his mobility a long time ago. Reconditioned he is better but still is more bull in a china shop on offense and routinely burned on defense. Dwight tries to block everything...that is one of the issues with offensive rebounds (and poor rotation). Team also collapses way too much. Jamison at PF means no defense. Really other than Dwight team isn't very good defensively and then add in Dwight trying to block too many shots and a coach that doesn't know defense....good mix.


I think the idea is that if he can be as productive as he is on offense, then why couldn't he be productive on defense especially on a team with multiple weapons where he doesn't have to expend so much offensively? I mean, you say he is 'productive' but that is such an understatement. He has enough in the tank to lead the league in scoring. It's not like he's been reduced to bench player and then being singled out for not being an elite shutdown defender. I think people would rather see a little more effort given on the defensive end and are more than understanding that doing so might come at the expense of some offense at this point in his career.

Also, everything will always center on Kobe. He's the leader of this team and as he goes, the Lakers go. He'll shoulder the majority of the credit if we succeed, and bear the majority of the responsibility shall we fail.


Offense you are controlling where you are going. Defense is reactionary and where loss of lateral quickness shows first. That is why they say a wet football field favors the offense because they already know where they are going. It doesn't help that Kobe is again having to carry too much load on offense and too many minutes. I think last two games he has not come out in the second half. Not going to help matters.
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Re: Video of Kobe's bad defense from Utah game

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:51 pm

jjin28 wrote:man. Eff it. Heres the truth. Kobe 18 seasons, mid 30's, 5 rings. He can and deserves to take a play off here n there, or heck, even the entire game if mamba wants. But the other 14 playas have no excuse to take a play off. Maybe gasol can have 3 plays off bc hes been there too, but not the rest, n def not dantoni to be calling out kobe like he did. That foo is pringles and he aint won ish. Kobe is a macro guy, all others is a micro guy. They dont see the big picture, and thats a freaking ship!


:man10: :man10: :man10:
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