What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby LakerFan1235 on Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:10 pm

John3:16 wrote:
TIME wrote:Yeah, I'll agree that on roster decisions he has been mostly solid.

His five glaring errors = Mike Brown / Pringles / not hiring Adelman / not hiring Phil / not hiring Shaw.


/ thread

This. Those are literally the only problems I have as a fan with Lakers management/Jim Buss the last few years. Mike and Mike. Other than that, I feel like they have done a great job.
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby bigdog2013 on Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:55 pm

People like SAS on espn give Jim a bad rap. Jim doesnt have the talking skills like his dad. He just needs to sell himself better to the fans.
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:47 am

Terrible coaches choices matter less when you don't have a championship roster caliber ... 11-12/12-13 teams were not title worthy regardless of whom the coach could have been .

The major mistake the FO made ( Jim , Mitch or whoever it might be) was to not get younger quickly after the Dallas debacle and to not adapt to the new league style of play ... Pau was still tradeable for solid pieces after the CP3 fiasco , draft picks were not valued ect ...
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:47 am

Terrible coaches choices matter less when you don't have a championship roster caliber ... 11-12/12-13 teams were not title worthy regardless of whom the coach could have been .

The major mistake the FO made ( Jim , Mitch or whoever it might be) was to not get younger quickly after the Dallas debacle and to not adapt to the new league style of play ... Pau was still tradeable for solid pieces after the CP3 fiasco , draft picks were not valued ect ...
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby CarolinaLakerFan on Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:50 am

TIME wrote:Yeah, I'll agree that on roster decisions he has been mostly solid.

His five glaring errors = Mike Brown / Pringles / not hiring Adelman / not hiring Phil / not hiring Shaw.

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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:58 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:Terrible coaches choices matter less when you don't have a championship roster caliber ... 11-12/12-13 teams were not title worthy regardless of whom the coach could have been .

The major mistake the FO made ( Jim , Mitch or whoever it might be) was to not get younger quickly after the Dallas debacle and to not adapt to the new league style of play ... Pau was still tradeable for solid pieces after the CP3 fiasco , draft picks were not valued ect ...


Last years grasp at desperation was most likely Jimmy driven but for a good reason IMO.... It was for his Dad. They knew it was his last season so they wanted to give him the team he's wanted for a long time. That's why there was no Phil 3.0. The good Dr. didn't like the Triangle and he wanted a return of "Showtime". He tried to give it to him.

The failure to sign role players easily available to us and trade away our picks for basically nothing over the years was a Phil/Mitch driven process. Phil didn't want youth or true point guards. He preferred a narrow list of vets.

I find it interesting that some think not bringing Phil back was a mistake.... I don't like MDA that much but having Phil back would again put us in the mode of getting nearly washed up vets and ignoring the PG position again for what?.... a year or two. Just prolongs the inevitable. The only mistake was entertaining Phil IMO. That alone did more damage than hiring MDA.
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby Lakerjones on Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:11 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
wcsoldier81 wrote:Terrible coaches choices matter less when you don't have a championship roster caliber ... 11-12/12-13 teams were not title worthy regardless of whom the coach could have been .

The major mistake the FO made ( Jim , Mitch or whoever it might be) was to not get younger quickly after the Dallas debacle and to not adapt to the new league style of play ... Pau was still tradeable for solid pieces after the CP3 fiasco , draft picks were not valued ect ...


Last years grasp at desperation was most likely Jimmy driven but for a good reason IMO.... It was for his Dad. They knew it was his last season so they wanted to give him the team he's wanted for a long time. That's why there was no Phil 3.0. The good Dr. didn't like the Triangle and he wanted a return of "Showtime". He tried to give it to him.

The failure to sign role players easily available to us and trade away our picks for basically nothing over the years was a Phil/Mitch driven process. Phil didn't want youth or true point guards. He preferred a narrow list of vets.

I find it interesting that some think not bringing Phil back was a mistake.... I don't like MDA that much but having Phil back would again put us in the mode of getting nearly washed up vets and ignoring the PG position again for what?.... a year or two. Just prolongs the inevitable. The only mistake was entertaining Phil IMO. That alone did more damage than hiring MDA.


I'm not sure I am buying that Jimmy and Mitch walked from Phil because of Jerry's dying wish. If that were the case then they are truly moronic. MDA's system didn't fit with last year's roster at all. I thought that was hogwash. Again, if they really thought that was the BEST FIT then we are truly in bad hands right now. A 39 year old Nash, a 35 year old Kobe, an aging Ron Artest and two post up players in Pau and Howard? That's crazy talk. Was when it happened, and proved to be ineffective during the year, which is why they ditched it in order to finally start winning.

I think as has been the case that Jim wanted nothing to do with Phil. This is well documented from his on air fights with Jeannie about Phil's coaching to his treatment of Brian Shaw in his coaching interview. I think that once again Jerry Buss fell on his own sword for his son.

It was not a mistake to entertain Phil at head coach. The guy has won more championships than any other coach and the other guy up for the HC position has never even sniffed the Finals. His system is conducive to regular season entertainment but not the playoffs.

MDA actually did a ton of damage to both Jim Buss's credibility and in my mind he's at least partly culpable for Kobe's achilles' injury. That's a potential career killer. Phil NEVER, repeat NEVER would have let Kobe call the shots that way, running himself into the ground. No chance he plays multiple games at over 45 minutes per with a busted wheel under Phil. Sorry. That was the sign of a weak coach. Brown couldn't reel Kobe in either.

So no, no freaking way did entertaining Phil ever come close to hurting the Lakers the way that Jim Buss's handling of the coaching hire did and MDA's hiring did.

They also look pretty pathetic losing Howard. Yes, Howard left on his own accord. I get that. I also get that a lot of people weren't sold on him being a franchise type Max contract player. But he wanted Phil as coach, and I don't think he would have left if he had him.
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:43 pm

Lakerjones wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
wcsoldier81 wrote:Terrible coaches choices matter less when you don't have a championship roster caliber ... 11-12/12-13 teams were not title worthy regardless of whom the coach could have been .

The major mistake the FO made ( Jim , Mitch or whoever it might be) was to not get younger quickly after the Dallas debacle and to not adapt to the new league style of play ... Pau was still tradeable for solid pieces after the CP3 fiasco , draft picks were not valued ect ...


Last years grasp at desperation was most likely Jimmy driven but for a good reason IMO.... It was for his Dad. They knew it was his last season so they wanted to give him the team he's wanted for a long time. That's why there was no Phil 3.0. The good Dr. didn't like the Triangle and he wanted a return of "Showtime". He tried to give it to him.

The failure to sign role players easily available to us and trade away our picks for basically nothing over the years was a Phil/Mitch driven process. Phil didn't want youth or true point guards. He preferred a narrow list of vets.

I find it interesting that some think not bringing Phil back was a mistake.... I don't like MDA that much but having Phil back would again put us in the mode of getting nearly washed up vets and ignoring the PG position again for what?.... a year or two. Just prolongs the inevitable. The only mistake was entertaining Phil IMO. That alone did more damage than hiring MDA.


I'm not sure I am buying that Jimmy and Mitch walked from Phil because of Jerry's dying wish. If that were the case then they are truly moronic. MDA's system didn't fit with last year's roster at all. I thought that was hogwash. Again, if they really thought that was the BEST FIT then we are truly in bad hands right now. A 39 year old Nash, a 35 year old Kobe, an aging Ron Artest and two post up players in Pau and Howard? That's crazy talk. Was when it happened, and proved to be ineffective during the year, which is why they ditched it in order to finally start winning.

I think as has been the case that Jim wanted nothing to do with Phil. This is well documented from his on air fights with Jeannie about Phil's coaching to his treatment of Brian Shaw in his coaching interview. I think that once again Jerry Buss fell on his own sword for his son.

It was not a mistake to entertain Phil at head coach. The guy has won more championships than any other coach and the other guy up for the HC position has never even sniffed the Finals. His system is conducive to regular season entertainment but not the playoffs.

MDA actually did a ton of damage to both Jim Buss's credibility and in my mind he's at least partly culpable for Kobe's achilles' injury. That's a potential career killer. Phil NEVER, repeat NEVER would have let Kobe call the shots that way, running himself into the ground. No chance he plays multiple games at over 45 minutes per with a busted wheel under Phil. Sorry. That was the sign of a weak coach. Brown couldn't reel Kobe in either.

So no, no freaking way did entertaining Phil ever come close to hurting the Lakers the way that Jim Buss's handling of the coaching hire did and MDA's hiring did.

They also look pretty pathetic losing Howard. Yes, Howard left on his own accord. I get that. I also get that a lot of people weren't sold on him being a franchise type Max contract player. But he wanted Phil as coach, and I don't think he would have left if he had him.


Well we'll see thid differently I guess. Phil had lost the team before he retired and if you are remembering things correctly why overlook Dr Buss's well documented dislike for the Triangle and paying that much for a coach? Nash and Howard in the Tri would be a disaster. MDA isn't the answer..... But I don't think a season of Phil was either. The stuff about Howard wanting Phil is bunk as well. Even if he stays Phil wasn't going to be coach long enough for us to rebuild and NO ONE other tha Phil has had any real success with the Triangle at this level. He was using it for cover.

Hiring Phil would have changed our personnel direction to Tri Players and Vets..... No way to get then for at least two years and Phil wouldn't be here......then another re-build for another coach.....
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:45 pm

What gets me rattled is that whether or not Dwight was right for us, the FO WANTED Dwight, and they couldn't get him.

That is unsettling to me. The FO can't close big deals anymore.
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby therealdeal on Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:08 am

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:What gets me rattled is that whether or not Dwight was right for us, the FO WANTED Dwight, and they couldn't get him.

That is unsettling to me. The FO can't close big deals anymore.

I disagree.
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby Nashty Gal on Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:25 am

It seems, to me, that he never washes his hair and always looks smelly. oh, and his rash decisions in coaching is pretty stinky as well.
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:47 am

therealdeal wrote:
V.V.V.V.V. wrote:What gets me rattled is that whether or not Dwight was right for us, the FO WANTED Dwight, and they couldn't get him.

That is unsettling to me. The FO can't close big deals anymore.

I disagree.


You disagree in that they could have gotten him if they wanted, they just didn't want him?

Or that Dwight was an exception, but they still have the magic to close the deals on the other big fish?
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby therealdeal on Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:36 am

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
V.V.V.V.V. wrote:What gets me rattled is that whether or not Dwight was right for us, the FO WANTED Dwight, and they couldn't get him.

That is unsettling to me. The FO can't close big deals anymore.

I disagree.


You disagree in that they could have gotten him if they wanted, they just didn't want him?

Or that Dwight was an exception, but they still have the magic to close the deals on the other big fish?

Both. I think the Lakers cooled on him as much as the other way around. I think that the Lakers knew that having his talent was important, but they didn't actually want him.

If they actually wanted him they would have fired D'Antoni, they would have hired Phil, and they would have done a more concrete job of building around him.

And since all of that is true, then we haven't seen them actually try and get/retain a star since Kobe and Pau, there's no basis to think that they can't "close a deal" with a superstar.
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:30 am

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:What gets me rattled is that whether or not Dwight was right for us, the FO WANTED Dwight, and they couldn't get him.

That is unsettling to me. The FO can't close big deals anymore.



The front Office wanted a marketable name for the new TV deal...... First it was Paul..... Then Howard... Not because they were their targets based on winning, rather their targets based on availability.

I think the team and the management were 50-50 on Howard by the end.
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby nba2k14 on Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:12 pm

You get it all wrong, OP. The only credit Jim Buss received is the drafting of Andrew Bynum. The CP3 trade, Gasol, Ariza, Dwight.. are not his credit. These were Mitch's credit. Can you imagine Jim Buss suggesting those trade and picking up the phone to talk with other GMs? They would have hung up before he can mutter a single word. He is that bad in negotiation and I doubt his brain is good enough to orchestrate a blockbuster. So no, those aren't his credit. I give him credit for Nash though and it was a disaster. He's basically giving up the future for 40 years old Nash. The Dwight trade is not his either. It was an obvious decision.

Now, for his faults, it's numerous. The disrespect of Lakers long-time employee, questionable coaching hiring, and of course his indecisiveness with Dwight/LO.
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby therealdeal on Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:22 pm

nba2k14 wrote:You get it all wrong, OP. The only credit Jim Buss received is the drafting of Andrew Bynum. The CP3 trade, Gasol, Ariza, Dwight.. are not his credit. These were Mitch's credit. Can you imagine Jim Buss suggesting those trade and picking up the phone to talk with other GMs? They would have hung up before he can mutter a single word. He is that bad in negotiation and I doubt his brain is good enough to orchestrate a blockbuster. So no, those aren't his credit. I give him credit for Nash though and it was a disaster. He's basically giving up the future for 40 years old Nash. The Dwight trade is not his either. It was an obvious decision.

Now, for his faults, it's numerous. The disrespect of Lakers long-time employee, questionable coaching hiring, and of course his indecisiveness with Dwight/LO.

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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby odom1year on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:13 pm

Did he do/make correct decision for Lakers ?
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:45 pm

SImply Jim is getting the treatment Mitch got after West left. Every failure or questionable move that isn't gold right away will be evaluated as dumb, stupid, idiotic etc.etc.etc While every move that is successful will be attributed to others like, ironically, Mitch. I thought Jeanie said it best when she said they have to learn their way to do things now. Neither Jim nor Jeanie are Jerry which is something fans seems to overlook or flat out ignore. I just dont agree with ALL the hate the man gets. Hindsight says there were different moves to be had but that is the case for every situation. Remember people questioned Phil, Dr. Buss and Mitch for all sorts of moves. It is their job to put a team on the floor that can compete. I recall in 08 after we lost people were screaming how we couldn't win with Odumb and ballhog Kome and Gasoft. It seems they were wrong. I'll reserve judgement but I like what we have done since Dwight picked up his skirt and ran to Houston to play in Hardens beard.
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby therealdeal on Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:33 am

Well said puff.
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Re: What exactly did Jim Buss do wrong?

Postby Juronimo on Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:24 pm

The Harden's beard comment made me lol
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