what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby KB24 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:08 am

I'm really not into what if this or that would have happened...

but really Mitch/Jim were really close to get Kobe to play with 2 other top 5 NBA players in their absolute prime. I know we got Stern'd but seriously, how amazing would that have been? you get 2 of the most marketable and exciting superstars that perfectly complement each other (closer, anchor) to get Kobe a few more rings before winning a few more after that...

Its already historic enough to get ONE franchise player of any kind. Look at how Philly is hyping up Bynum.
Laker fans are really spoiled in that regard, seems like its something on the check list. But we could have had 3 of the 5 best players of this generation all on the same team and 2 guys at 26 in perfect age to start their prime.

Thats kind of a crazy thing. I think by now everybody knows that Mitch is good and that Buss is willing to pay if an opportunity is there....but damn, they still don't get enough credit.

They basically made 4 deals for HOF players from other teams within 5 years (Gasol, Nash, Howard, Paul)
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby XXIV on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:16 am

For the next two years I'd much rather have Nash + Pau than just CP3 alone. However, for the long term the CP3 trade would have benefited us more.
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby tttttada on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:18 am

XXIV wrote:For the next two years I'd much rather have Nash + Pau than just CP3 alone. However, for the long term the CP3 trade would have benefited us more.


i second this
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby KB24 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:35 am

this isn't about Nash and Pau or Chris Paul..I'm just talking about the magnitude of pulling this moves for the very best players, in their very best basketball years...and all within such a short period of time.

No team likes to trade away their superstar...I mean a real mega star like Dwight, Paul, James, Durant etc. And whenever someone was on the block or unhappy, Mitch was there...asking AND getting that player and giving up less talent and more salary every single time.
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby dj vitus on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:51 am

What if we traded Shaq and fillers for Dwyane Wade? :man4:

What if Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman came to the Lakers when we signed Shaq when they openly said they were very interested? :man4: :man4: :man4:
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:57 am

I feel what you are saying. Fans on the Lakers are spoiled beyond belief. We do not really appreciate the magnitude of, well, anything for the most part. If the management gets a big name we are all :jam2: but then we have a "now what" or "we need this guy now" mentality. There isn't a Dwight parade or a Nash meet and great the day they show up. We don't see the blogs being dripped with OMG the Lakers because, simply put, we are the Lakers and its expected.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby KB24 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:02 pm

I promise you it takes like a mini stretch of 5 bad/mediocre games before the first fickle fans to come out

"Lakers FO doesn't care anymore, they got the seats filled"
"Why is Derrick Rose not a Laker yet?"
"this team is way too old"

etc.

But nothing changes the fact that we could have 3 franchise players in their prime on a team when 25 teams in the league can't have a single one. I was really thinking into putting this into the "damn Lakers" thread...and it would fit nicely.

But again, this isn't so much about the Lakers success in general. Its about a few dudes (Mitch, Jim, Jerry) that kind of pull off history changing moves...and now 4 within 5 years. Thats kind of hard to believe.

When will you ever in life have the chance to watch 4 HOF players that can still play in your starting lineup with the weak link being a former all-star and DPOY still somewhat in his hey days. I mean seriously? we pretty much have the western all-star team...Durant, well we haven't had a crack yet...but even the other starter (Paul) was basically a Laker before it got nixed.

I know the Pistons used to have 4 all-stars a few years back but you can't compare our 4 HOFs with 4 all-stars that were there just because they played well together. We have 4 historic players, MVP candidate type of players. And guess what, we had another 4 HOF players in 2004...3 of those guys are now gone.

Just how many great players come and go is fascinating.
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:21 pm

this reminds me greatly of the Malone/Payton year. This seems like the Redemption tour... Nash and Howard both need that ring and Ron wants to validate his. If you really think about it over the past 16 years the Lakers have essentially done what no other franchise has consistantly done with the best of the best in the game.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby jamabile on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:28 pm

It's amazing. Being a Laker fan has it's advantages (understatement of the year), we are so spoiled. The Paul trade would have saved us money and we would have had a top flight PG; if we got Howard, not you have two marketable stars when Kobe retires. That's a heck of a foundation.

With what we have now, we still have a chance to compete for rings for the next 2-3 years depending on health, chemistry, etc. After that Kobe's contract, Pau's contract, Metta's contract, all come off the books, and allow the flexibility to the Lakers to grab another All-Star player to play with Howard.

I still can't believe all of this...
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby KB24 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:32 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:this reminds me greatly of the Malone/Payton year. This seems like the Redemption tour... Nash and Howard both need that ring and Ron wants to validate his. If you really think about it over the past 16 years the Lakers have essentially done what no other franchise has consistantly done with the best of the best in the game.


while it does really remind me of the Malone/Payton year...this time around we have better fits IMO.

Last time around all 4 players were tough to deal with in terms of character....selfish, self-entitled. This time around you have nice guys around.
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby v1n5anity on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:50 pm

KB24 wrote:this isn't about Nash and Pau or Chris Paul..I'm just talking about the magnitude of pulling this moves for the very best players, in their very best basketball years...and all within such a short period of time.

No team likes to trade away their superstar...I mean a real mega star like Dwight, Paul, James, Durant etc. And whenever someone was on the block or unhappy, Mitch was there...asking AND getting that player and giving up less talent and more salary every single time.


I agree with your points. Just amazing what Mitch and Jimmy were able to do with cap restrictions and bounce back from the veto like it was nothing. Paul + Howard for the long term would have been absolutely nuts. They probably would have played 6+ years together.
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby therealdeal on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:51 pm

If you really like that, keep track of Paul and see what kind of contract he signs next. If he extends with the Clippers for 2 years or 3 years with the 3rd being a player option, watch out. He may still have his eyes set on the Lakers.

He's really embraced the Clippers since going there, but there was certainly some disappointment on all parts when he couldn't make it to the Lakers. Now they have Dwight and a chance for he and Dwight to pair up under the Hollywood lights... it's a possibility.

And even if not, as excited as we are now just wait 2-3 years and see the kind of team that is built directly following this star studded lineup. The Lakers will have all the tools necessary to build a fantastic team around Dwight in 2-3 years. Then we may have a chance to swing for another franchise type of player.
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby therealdeal on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:52 pm

KB24 wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:this reminds me greatly of the Malone/Payton year. This seems like the Redemption tour... Nash and Howard both need that ring and Ron wants to validate his. If you really think about it over the past 16 years the Lakers have essentially done what no other franchise has consistantly done with the best of the best in the game.


while it does really remind me of the Malone/Payton year...this time around we have better fits IMO.

Last time around all 4 players were tough to deal with in terms of character....selfish, self-entitled. This time around you have nice guys around.

It definitely seems like everyone here knows the score. Dwight is here for his reason. Nash for his. Kobe and Gasol know what they are doing and what they're here for. The role players all know what they were brought in here for...

It's definitely all there. It definitely seems to fit better than the Payton/Malone fiasco.
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby KB24 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:59 pm

^honestly, I don't even think it was a fiasco with Malone and Payton.

We went to the Finals and we would have probably won it without Malone being hurt all year, coming back and limping through the Finals.

Also payton...had a solid season but was absolutely useless in the Finals. Raped on D by Billups and useless on offense because he wasn't happy with Phil's offense. Shaq was complaining all year about touches, especially in the Finals. And Kobe was awful vs. Prince. It really took a lot of issues for that team to lose and they still made the finals.
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby nthydro on Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:31 pm

therealdeal wrote:If you really like that, keep track of Paul and see what kind of contract he signs next. If he extends with the Clippers for 2 years or 3 years with the 3rd being a player option, watch out. He may still have his eyes set on the Lakers.

He's really embraced the Clippers since going there, but there was certainly some disappointment on all parts when he couldn't make it to the Lakers. Now they have Dwight and a chance for he and Dwight to pair up under the Hollywood lights... it's a possibility.

And even if not, as excited as we are now just wait 2-3 years and see the kind of team that is built directly following this star studded lineup. The Lakers will have all the tools necessary to build a fantastic team around Dwight in 2-3 years. Then we may have a chance to swing for another franchise type of player.


Oh trust me, 2 or 3 more seasons of enduring the Clippers curse and he'll be begging to leave.
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby pound4pound1 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:33 pm

i would have been interested to see how Mitch would have filled up the rest of the roster if that trade did go thru...
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby therealdeal on Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:15 pm

KB24 wrote:^honestly, I don't even think it was a fiasco with Malone and Payton.

We went to the Finals and we would have probably won it without Malone being hurt all year, coming back and limping through the Finals.

Also payton...had a solid season but was absolutely useless in the Finals. Raped on D by Billups and useless on offense because he wasn't happy with Phil's offense. Shaq was complaining all year about touches, especially in the Finals. And Kobe was awful vs. Prince. It really took a lot of issues for that team to lose and they still made the finals.

I use the word fiasco because 1) we didn't win when we should have and 2) to NOT win that team needed to have an insane amount of issues... which they did.

It's a fiasco because any team with that much talent shouldn't lose. You know?
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Re: what ifs usually don't mean something, but not in this case

Postby Ludachris on Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:58 pm

KB24 wrote:^honestly, I don't even think it was a fiasco with Malone and Payton.

We went to the Finals and we would have probably won it without Malone being hurt all year, coming back and limping through the Finals.

Also payton...had a solid season but was absolutely useless in the Finals. Raped on D by Billups and useless on offense because he wasn't happy with Phil's offense. Shaq was complaining all year about touches, especially in the Finals. And Kobe was awful vs. Prince. It really took a lot of issues for that team to lose and they still made the finals.

I agree. The main reason that team didn't win it all was Malone being old and injured. The rest of the issues were all relatively minor in comparison, yet amplified due to the Los Angeles media spotlight. Phil didn't have complete control when it all started unraveling in the Finals. I don't see it as a "fiasco", just a solid attempt that failed.

The biggest difference between that team and this one is that two of the big names that were added (Payton and Malone) were the biggest reasons why the team couldn't pull it off. Malone was too old and hurt, while Payton was a shell of his former self and just didn't fit in the system. The chemistry wasn't there and yet they still were only 3 wins away from being champs.

This team doesn't have those same types of players. Nash is old but still very effective and has a team-first attitude - let's just hope his body holds up. Howard is young and is the new face of the franchise and doesn't have a massive ego. Kobe has the biggest ego on the team but he knows what it takes to win and I believe that will help him adapt however he needs to. Pau will contribute when needed and proved he had plenty left with his performance in the Olympics. We don't have the egos or the clashing personalities/player types on this team that we had on that 2004 team, and that should help quite a bit.

I agree with you KB24 - it's unbelievable what this organization has been able to do over the past decade, and especially the past two offseasons. I'm very spoiled as a fan.
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