Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby DuddlyDoRight on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:48 am

I have no problem with him doing it, but we brought nash her to make Kobes job easier. He was supposed to facilitate the entire offense. Is he doing it because nash as facilitator clearly wasnt working? Is Nash just not able to do that anymore? Do they just want to ride this wave of winning?

It just seems like nash solely as a spot up shooter is a bit of a waste of his skillset.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby The Rock on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:18 am

Because Nash couldn't get it done as a PG of this team. Plain and simple. Even though hes not the Steve Nash of the suns he's still pretty damn lethal because he's one of the best shooters in the league, he can still go on small scoring runs (We saw him score 10pts vs CHI last night in 3rd Q). Those things still hold a lot of value but yea he wasn't great with his decision making and passing coming off the pick and roll, due to lack of shooters and longer defenders being put on him he got trapped quite a bit and it discombobulated the offense
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby Frank Dux on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:20 am

We don't have the pieces to run a Nash style offense.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:22 am

It also took Kobe out of his comfort zone and since he's the only guy on our team still playing at an elite level it was hurting us. He complained about it after the Heat game in LA where he was just standing around the perimeter waiting to get the ball meanwhile Nash was getting absolutely destroyed by the Heat's traps.

It was the right move to switch it up.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:23 am

The Rock wrote: due to lack of shooters and longer defenders being put on him he got trapped quite a bit and it discombobulated the offense

Yeah, it's not because Nash couldn't get it done. It's because we don't have enough floor spreaders, and the team is still learning the correct spacing with Nash. We also realized we aren't an athletic enough team to push the ball all game, so running a slower, half court game is better.

We basically are running some variants of the triangle when Kobe goes to the post. Kobe in the post is as effective as a Steve Nash pick and roll. Steve Nash isn't all of a sudden "bad" at the PnR.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby The Rock on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:29 am

^ but thats the thing a Nash should elevate his teammates play and make it easier for them shooters or not, it seemed like it was the other way around where we needed shooters to make it easier for him and we dont have that obviously
Last edited by The Rock on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:29 am

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:It also took Kobe out of his comfort zone and since he's the only guy on our team still playing at an elite level it was hurting us. He complained about it after the Heat game in LA where he was just standing around the perimeter waiting to get the ball meanwhile Nash was getting absolutely destroyed by the Heat's traps.

It was the right move to switch it up.

This.

Nash's age and injury caught up with him this season. Right now he's playing a role off of Kobe and that's the right role for him. Especially with the pieces we have.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby Weezy on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:35 am

Because Kobe is playing Nash's role better than Nash was. Kobe turns the ball one more,but Nash is better at being a spot up shooter than Kobe. A real waste of talent wouod be Kobe standing around and playing the role Nash is now. Nash as primary pg was not drawing doubles like he used to, he was not able to get into the lane at will and draw 2 like he used to. I think it's a combination of age and that injury really slowing him down this season. It really comes down to right now we are better with them switching roles, I like Nash wide open for 3's more than Kobe, and I like Kobe driving and dishing more than Nash.

Lastly though, Nash is not playing as JUST a spot up shooter. He's still making plays for guys, he's still swinging the ball to the right player, still getting into the lane for runners and layups, doing a lot of dirty work off the ball, he's playing great ball.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby JLaker17 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:38 am

Cause we are better like that.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby John3:16 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:52 am

Jamie Foxx wrote:Kobe is more talented.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby Finwë on Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:15 am

therealdeal wrote:
JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:It also took Kobe out of his comfort zone and since he's the only guy on our team still playing at an elite level it was hurting us. He complained about it after the Heat game in LA where he was just standing around the perimeter waiting to get the ball meanwhile Nash was getting absolutely destroyed by the Heat's traps.

It was the right move to switch it up.

This.

Nash's age and injury caught up with him this season. Right now he's playing a role off of Kobe and that's the right role for him. Especially with the pieces we have.

I agree.
One thought though: IMO it would result in our benefit if Kobe wasn't initiating EVERY offensive sequence in the 4th quarter.
Lately, probably fueled by how well he's been playing, we've seen Kobe bring the ball up himself and either play screen & roll or ISO, sometimes scoring himself, sometimes creating for others.
I don't mind the idea of Kobe taking most of the shots in crunch time, but I do have a problem with how we've been going about it lately. Luckily he's been on this amazing run and we've won the games, but IMO having Kobe dribble penetrate from 30 feet out against athletic wing defenders, at this age, with his mileage and accumulated fatigue, that's just dumb. We become very predictable and rely on Kobe being masterful and our shooters coming up big if the ball hits them. That's too much pressure to put on one guy on the team. It's worked so far, but I'm not sure how it's gonna work against better teams or in the playoffs.
I think we should let Nash initiate the offense sometimes in the 4th, have Kobe play off the ball a little more, not like he was in the Heat game just standing on a spot waiting to catch-and-shoot, but running through screens, posting up, using him as the screener with Nash (worked VERY well against Chicago in the 3rd quarter I think it was), etc.
I think that would make us less predictable, it would be less pressure on Kobe, it would possibly give Nash a couple more looks for himself (he didn't take one shot late against NO and took maybe one or two in the entire 4th - overtime against Toronto), which he'd certainly take advantage of. Kobe doesn't have to have the ball for 20 seconds, you can get it to him in his sweet spots and avoid him having to work extra hard for everything. He can still take most of the shots, and he's probably gonna make them. He can put a lot of pressure on the D just by playing off the ball, he doesn't even have to get it sometimes, he can be a very effective decoy.

That's my opinion. I agreed with Kobe taking some of the playmaking responsabilities from Nash, but I don't think he should have to do it ALL the time, or on EVERY crunch-time possession.. Mix it up.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:20 am

It does happen but yeah not very often.

I'd like to see Kobe and Nash play off each other more though like they were in the Heat game @ Miami. That beautiful two man game where Nash would set a screen for Kobe was working so well because no one ever rotates off Nash.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby Juronimo on Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:20 am

I agree with everything Finwe just posted.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:33 am

A couple things.

1. Nash is playing the Fisher+ role, which is fine. He's a better shooter than fisher. And can choose to play make if the shot isn't available. His court vision isn't wasted.

2. Kobe is the best. Has the biggest arsenal and draws more doubles.

3. But Kobe can't be initiating the offense forever like Finwe said. He's old and logging too many minutes. Handling the ball on top of that is just too much. We should defer to Nash more. And feed Dwight.

4. Having Pau back will help both Nash and Kobe. Pau can act as a 3rd facilitator when we drop it in the post. May end up being the primary play maker with the bench once he returns.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby jOeyB7000 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:49 am

I wonder what this team is gonna look like when Pau comes back. Will Pau be allowed to initiate the offence from the mid post with Kobe & Nash playing off him?

Or is Antoni gonna relegate Pau to only shooting 20 footers and 3's(LOL)..
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby John3:16 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:53 am

Juronimo wrote:I agree with everything Finwe just posted.


I agree with everything Juronimo just posted.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby gcclaker on Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:02 pm

John3:16 wrote:
Juronimo wrote:I agree with everything Finwe just posted.

I agree with everything Juronimo just posted.

I am with John about what Juronimo said about Finwe's post. Balance and picking the right spots...
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby Weezy on Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:15 pm

I agree with what you said as well Finwe, Kobe should not be running every play, every time down. It works now, but it won't always, and if Nash and Kobe split the job it makes it harder on the defense and it's less work or Kobe.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby trodgers on Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:23 pm

John3:16 wrote:
Jamie Foxx wrote:Kobe is more talented.

:ball5:
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby borri on Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:30 pm

Frank Dux wrote:We don't have the pieces to run a Nash style offense.


THIS. Nash needs an Amare type of big to maximize his PnR style. We thought Pau could possibly do it. We all know how that turned out. D12's range is 5 ft.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby lakerfan2 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:37 pm

We have both. If Kobe gets tired, we have Nash to run it.

Like many said, Kobe demands so much more attention. One reason why we're seeing getting all of these dunks? Space outside his new found health.

Watch most pick and rolls with him and Dwight, NO ONE is going to leave Dwight open. A smart team would double off Metta to help. That's why we need someone to replace Metta next season to make them pay. But in most cases, Kobe has that open lane and is the better finisher.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby karacha on Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:53 pm

I haven't read the whole thread, so I apologize if I mention something that's now redundant, but...

Nash does not have the players who are young, fast and can shoot the 3 consistently. So, MDA asked him to adapt to the new role: that of a spot shooter/scorer. In this way, Nash becomes the 2nd or 3rd best scorer on the team on any given night. Let's be honest: Kobe is one of the best scorers ever, but he's not exactly a "shooter". Nash, on the other hand is a historically great long-range shooter. He gets to score more, while Kobe facilitates in a slower offense, which is what he did his whole career anyway. This results in us having

PG: shooter/facilitator
SG: scorer/facilitator
SF: defender/shooter (sort of)
PF: slasher/defender
C: defensive anchor/rebounder

Obviously, we are still missing Pau's triple role of facilitator/scorer/rebounder, but we're finally well balanced which allowed us to build chemistry and start playing better. For that Nash, Kobe, Dwight and MDA all get credit, because it is something that's not easy to figure out. We need someone to replace Metta if possible: someone who can hit the 3 with more consistency, with some athletic defensive presence and scoring ability. In this way, our opponents would have to think twice before they double Dwight: who do you leave open? Kobe? Nash? The new athletic 3? Unfortunately, right now they leave Metta open, and he does not always make them pay.
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:04 pm

Weezy wrote:I agree with what you said as well Finwe, Kobe should not be running every play, every time down. It works now, but it won't always, and if Nash and Kobe split the job it makes it harder on the defense and it's less work or Kobe.

I think you guys are right, but you're underestimating how much we actually do that. We mix it up JUST enough to keep the defense honest and I think it's fine right now.

Examples: every now and then Nash will run a pick and roll with Howard late. If nothing is there, they kick it to Kobe with about 10 seconds left.

The game against the Raptors we ran Kobe as a decoy and allowed Nash to hit that three.

When the doubles come, Kobe passes to Nash and then the responsibility is on Nash to get in the paint and make the right play (he's still figuring out how to do this consistently).
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby TheOp on Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:07 pm

Chillbongo wrote:
The Rock wrote: due to lack of shooters and longer defenders being put on him he got trapped quite a bit and it discombobulated the offense

Yeah, it's not because Nash couldn't get it done. It's because we don't have enough floor spreaders, and the team is still learning the correct spacing with Nash. We also realized we aren't an athletic enough team to push the ball all game, so running a slower, half court game is better.

We basically are running some variants of the triangle when Kobe goes to the post. Kobe in the post is as effective as a Steve Nash pick and roll. Steve Nash isn't all of a sudden "bad" at the PnR.


Its really all MWP's fault. He cant make a wide open 3, its easy to trap us in our offense.

If we ran this lineup, you cant really help off anyone.

Nash
Meeks
Kobe
Clark/Jamison
Dwight
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Re: Why is Kobe assuming Nash's role?

Postby DuddlyDoRight on Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:10 pm

John3:16 wrote:
Juronimo wrote:I agree with everything Finwe just posted.


I agree with everything Juronimo just posted.


I agree with john3:16, as well as, Austin 3:16...lol
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