WMC 12/13: Mercy kill. (0-4)

Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:38 pm

I'm so sick of losing. This sucks. Anways, others have noted primarily what went wrong and why we lost. Our late-game execution needs to get better, though; and that, IMO, is going to happen with time & chemistry.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:38 pm

Forward Three wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:Oh and my major WMC (or opinion): The Heats so-called super Defense. All they do is shove on traps. They hit our guys low all game. They pushed guys off the block all game and yet really couldn't stop us. I wasn't impressed like Reggie and crew was that is for sure.


They certainly get away with a lot of pushing and shoving, Lebron's block against Clark for instance, he pushed off Clark's back. It's reminiscent of the Celtics '08 defense that was given the narrative of "it's tough and hardnosed" which was code for "they foul a lot and get away with it". The fact that touch fouls were being called for Lebron and Wade on the other end just makes it that much more annoying. The league needs to seriously decide what they are trying to do with fouling. There's this concept of "once defenders are set we're going to let them wrestle, but if someone is moving we're going to call a foul on the gust of air that hit their jersey". I think the game has morphed to protect and reward dive to the basket and-ones at the expense of back-to-the-basket postups. It's no great coincidence it's such a guard dominated era of NBA right now.

Could unravel that into a bit of a conspiracy theory(largely about the casual fan liking fast breaks and charging dunks more than good footwork), but whatever the reasons or motivations, it certainly doesn't do the Lakers any favors.


And thats my problem... The refs let them get away with what we couldn't. Call the game the same and its all good. How many phantom calls did they get? A TON. THose guys rotate quickly, they do talk and we didn't cut like we should have. All that being said, we were just as aggressive, moved much better and talked too yet we were getting called for the touch fouls.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby hollywood swinger on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:39 pm

FabFourLakers wrote:I think of it this way....as bad as we played...we were 2 free throws away from this game going our way. Dwight has to make one of two...he cannot miss both. That really hurts us. Ray Allen took a TOUGH fade away jumper OVER howard and he made it. I don't think Miami really dominated like most thought they would...I thought they just made tougher shots and we didn't execute down the stretch. I hope this team isn't discouraged because they shouldn't be. Great all around effort and like others have said, we played with the same intensity from the past couple of games. We need to string together 5 or 6 straight games of WINS though...I thought only 2 wins in a row coming into this game wasn't enough for us to overcome a team like Miami...although they played the night before so we should have won this game.

come on this team isn't elite. can't win with these pg's nor this coaching. the heat did just enough to beat us. they would sweep us in a series. time to make some trades because this team isn't winning. not to mention MDA is horrible.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby wcsoldier81 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:39 pm

You guys get it wrong ... you have to build a reputation as a great defensive team to get away with some fouls ... every great defender or defensive team get away with fouls .. don't you think Metta with his physical on ball D get away with fouls ? He does and quite a lot ... but he earned this right

if you don't think the 08 Celtics D was outstanding or this Heat team ( when they are locked in ) D is great , I don't know what to say
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby dj vitus on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:39 pm

Forward Three wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:Oh and my major WMC (or opinion): The Heats so-called super Defense. All they do is shove on traps. They hit our guys low all game. They pushed guys off the block all game and yet really couldn't stop us. I wasn't impressed like Reggie and crew was that is for sure.


They certainly get away with a lot of pushing and shoving, Lebron's block against Clark for instance, he pushed off Clark's back. It's reminiscent of the Celtics '08 defense that was given the narrative of "it's tough and hardnosed" which was code for "they foul a lot and get away with it". The fact that touch fouls were being called for Lebron and Wade on the other end just makes it that much more annoying. The league needs to seriously decide what they are trying to do with fouling. There's this concept of "once defenders are set we're going to let them wrestle, but if someone is moving we're going to call a foul on the gust of air that hit their jersey". I think the game has morphed to protect and reward dive to the basket and-ones at the expense of back-to-the-basket postups. It's no great coincidence it's such a guard dominated era of NBA right now.

Could unravel that into a bit of a conspiracy theory(largely about the casual fan liking fast breaks and charging dunks more than good footwork), but whatever the reasons or motivations, it certainly doesn't do the Lakers any favors.

I would compare it to the '04 Pistons, too.

It's the whole, "that's just the way they play, and we never call it, so we'll continue to not call it. They're known for their 'defense,' so we can't just take it away from them when we never called it all season."

I didn't see much '08 Celtics (though what I did see looked more "legit," if you will, than those Pistons teams)
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby Weezy on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:40 pm

Eh, the Heat are the champs, we were in it almost the whole time, I can't really complain too much. We cut down on those turnovers, get Dwight the ball more and he makes some more free throws, Kobe doesn't shoot so terribly and Nash doesn't have such a bad game and we could have won. :man10:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby Pig Miller on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:41 pm

let's say we do meet the heat in the final. what is our strategy to get quality shots in the last 2 minutes?

steve can't get the ball half the time due to denial defense. kobe can't post up because james is on him. he's also not going to beat lbj off the dribble.

we throw it into dwight, and he'll go to the ft line. not necessarily a good thing.

is gasol our only option? we really don't have any elite playmakers anymore.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby dj vitus on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:42 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:
Forward Three wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:Oh and my major WMC (or opinion): The Heats so-called super Defense. All they do is shove on traps. They hit our guys low all game. They pushed guys off the block all game and yet really couldn't stop us. I wasn't impressed like Reggie and crew was that is for sure.


They certainly get away with a lot of pushing and shoving, Lebron's block against Clark for instance, he pushed off Clark's back. It's reminiscent of the Celtics '08 defense that was given the narrative of "it's tough and hardnosed" which was code for "they foul a lot and get away with it". The fact that touch fouls were being called for Lebron and Wade on the other end just makes it that much more annoying. The league needs to seriously decide what they are trying to do with fouling. There's this concept of "once defenders are set we're going to let them wrestle, but if someone is moving we're going to call a foul on the gust of air that hit their jersey". I think the game has morphed to protect and reward dive to the basket and-ones at the expense of back-to-the-basket postups. It's no great coincidence it's such a guard dominated era of NBA right now.

Could unravel that into a bit of a conspiracy theory(largely about the casual fan liking fast breaks and charging dunks more than good footwork), but whatever the reasons or motivations, it certainly doesn't do the Lakers any favors.


And thats my problem... The refs let them get away with what we couldn't. Call the game the same and its all good. How many phantom calls did they get? A TON. THose guys rotate quickly, they do talk and we didn't cut like we should have. All that being said, we were just as aggressive, moved much better and talked too yet we were getting called for the touch fouls.

Even non-touch fouls, like Gasol's "foul" on LeBron's layup midway through the 4th. Barely even grazed his jersey.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby khmrP on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:43 pm

Weezy wrote:Eh, the Heat are the champs, we were in it almost the whole time, I can't really complain too much. We cut down on those turnovers, get Dwight the ball more and he makes some more free throws, Kobe doesn't shoot so terribly and Nash doesn't have such a bad game and we could have won. :man10:

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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby Forward Three on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:44 pm

dj vitus wrote:
Forward Three wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:Oh and my major WMC (or opinion): The Heats so-called super Defense. All they do is shove on traps. They hit our guys low all game. They pushed guys off the block all game and yet really couldn't stop us. I wasn't impressed like Reggie and crew was that is for sure.


They certainly get away with a lot of pushing and shoving, Lebron's block against Clark for instance, he pushed off Clark's back. It's reminiscent of the Celtics '08 defense that was given the narrative of "it's tough and hardnosed" which was code for "they foul a lot and get away with it". The fact that touch fouls were being called for Lebron and Wade on the other end just makes it that much more annoying. The league needs to seriously decide what they are trying to do with fouling. There's this concept of "once defenders are set we're going to let them wrestle, but if someone is moving we're going to call a foul on the gust of air that hit their jersey". I think the game has morphed to protect and reward dive to the basket and-ones at the expense of back-to-the-basket postups. It's no great coincidence it's such a guard dominated era of NBA right now.

Could unravel that into a bit of a conspiracy theory(largely about the casual fan liking fast breaks and charging dunks more than good footwork), but whatever the reasons or motivations, it certainly doesn't do the Lakers any favors.

I would compare it to the '04 Pistons, too.

It's the whole, "that's just the way they play, and we never call it, so we'll continue to not call it. They're known for their 'defense,' so we can't just take it away from them when we never called it all season."

I didn't see much '08 Celtics (though what I did see looked more "legit," if you will, than those Pistons teams)



Yes. That's also where the "could unravel it into a conspiracy theory" comes into play a little. Being that the League, Refs, Stern...etc. play a role in curating 'personalities' for different teams, like any given year one or two teams are allowed to be 'bad guys' or otherwise play tough because you need that foil against teams that don't or play a clean game. But..... I don't really go for conspiracy theories. I think it is safe to say, at the very least, the game is manipulated somewhat, there aren't any multibillion dollar endeavors that aren't really, but I doubt it is that extensive.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby dj vitus on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:45 pm

Pig Miller wrote:let's say we do meet the heat in the final. what is our strategy to get quality shots in the last 2 minutes?

steve can't get the ball half the time due to denial defense. kobe can't post up because james is on him. he's also not going to beat lbj off the dribble.

we throw it into dwight, and he'll go to the ft line. not necessarily a good thing.

is gasol our only option? we really don't have any elite playmakers anymore.

Nothing. Miami's good at taking the PG out of their game (think Jeremy Lin last season).

I mentioned it in another thread, but every time Nash got a screen, he ended up getting double-teamed. Seemingly every single time. And we never capitalized on it. :freak2:

We would just pass it out to a clueless Gasol 35 feet out. I can't tell you how many times Metta and Clark were open for 3, and no one noticed, not even Nash.

Miami would only lose if LeBron misses a couple of easy layups early on and just quits with Wade hobbling. Only they can beat themselves.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:46 pm

Additonally, not really much we can do, but I thought this was a game where we missed J. Hill's defense, hustle, energy, & rebounding. This was the first game I can actually say we missed him a great deal...
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby Chillbongo on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:48 pm

Just don't think this team is built to play championship D :(

And possibly bc of coach. I mean miamis roster top to bottom is not much younger or equipped with any more elite Defenders than us, and look at that s*** tonight
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby hollywood swinger on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:49 pm

Weezy wrote:Eh, the Heat are the champs, we were in it almost the whole time, I can't really complain too much. We cut down on those turnovers, get Dwight the ball more and he makes some more free throws, Kobe doesn't shoot so terribly and Nash doesn't have such a bad game and we could have won. :man10:


still think nash is a starting pg on an elite team when he can't exploit norris cole? nash picked up more dribble than a bib in a nursing home. :man10:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby Chillbongo on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:49 pm

Hill would've been nice. They had so many point in the paint.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby odom1year on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:56 pm

Stop complaining anyone other than Kobe. This is Kobe's team. When the best player of your team missed 17 of total 25 attempts and committed team high 6 turnovers. The best player should take the responsibility and blame. And for Lebron, he is number 1 in the league, better than Durant. No question about. Kobe's just at best top 5 right now.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby dj vitus on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:57 pm

Chillbongo wrote:Hill would've been nice. They had so many point in the paint.

Could it be because Gasol came back? :man11: I don't know the numbers; just throwing it out there.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:59 pm

This team can't close in the final minutes. Period. Lots of empty possessions and giving up mafe baskets down the stretch.

Kobe is not effective at it much any more - typically because he is spent with heroics just getting the game close again to have a chance in the final minutes. His ISO ball and contested 3s in the last minute don't work most of the time.

Dwight can't make FTs. Metts play hero ball and chucks up badly missed shots or blows layups in final minutes. A lot. And Nash looks like an old white man (which he is) much of the time.

Games against the Spurs (twice), Clips, Heat, Denver, Philly and many more were all within 2 possessions with just 2 minutes left. And we almost always go dry during those stretches.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby The Rock on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:07 am

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby MaddDogg on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:08 am

Lakers played well. Calls were one sided for the heat. Touch fouls for lebron and wade. Nash getting held like crazy no call??? Lebron rolls around the ground with posession of the basketball and gets up and starts dribbling no travel??? Kobe could have taken a few less hero shots, but the game was already decided by the refs. Everybody played well, nobody really sucked.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby LakerFanIam on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:09 am

We were right there until Dwight threw up that AIRBALL freethrow.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby Finwë on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:11 am

dj vitus wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:
Forward Three wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:Oh and my major WMC (or opinion): The Heats so-called super Defense. All they do is shove on traps. They hit our guys low all game. They pushed guys off the block all game and yet really couldn't stop us. I wasn't impressed like Reggie and crew was that is for sure.


They certainly get away with a lot of pushing and shoving, Lebron's block against Clark for instance, he pushed off Clark's back. It's reminiscent of the Celtics '08 defense that was given the narrative of "it's tough and hardnosed" which was code for "they foul a lot and get away with it". The fact that touch fouls were being called for Lebron and Wade on the other end just makes it that much more annoying. The league needs to seriously decide what they are trying to do with fouling. There's this concept of "once defenders are set we're going to let them wrestle, but if someone is moving we're going to call a foul on the gust of air that hit their jersey". I think the game has morphed to protect and reward dive to the basket and-ones at the expense of back-to-the-basket postups. It's no great coincidence it's such a guard dominated era of NBA right now.

Could unravel that into a bit of a conspiracy theory(largely about the casual fan liking fast breaks and charging dunks more than good footwork), but whatever the reasons or motivations, it certainly doesn't do the Lakers any favors.


And thats my problem... The refs let them get away with what we couldn't. Call the game the same and its all good. How many phantom calls did they get? A TON. THose guys rotate quickly, they do talk and we didn't cut like we should have. All that being said, we were just as aggressive, moved much better and talked too yet we were getting called for the touch fouls.

Even non-touch fouls, like Gasol's "foul" on LeBron's layup midway through the 4th. Barely even grazed his jersey.

I watch a lot of Heat games and he gets at least one of those calls every game. It's perplexing. Calls when you really, reallyhave to try and find any semblance of contact. To the arguably most athletic guy in the league (in terms of a combination of speed, strength and leaping ability). There's no need to give him those calls.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:11 am

Lebron was unreal tonight. Just dominated for stretches. Hit some huge answer baskets. If he plays like this come playoff time, they will be a super tough out.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby Weezy on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:13 am

khmrP wrote:
Weezy wrote:Eh, the Heat are the champs, we were in it almost the whole time, I can't really complain too much. We cut down on those turnovers, get Dwight the ball more and he makes some more free throws, Kobe doesn't shoot so terribly and Nash doesn't have such a bad game and we could have won. :man10:

World of ifs....this is our solice everytime we lose, if this if that


Yeah that's why I laughed, IF all those things don't happen we could have won. How likely is it all those don't happen? It's not, we kinda have to be perfect to beat any good teams .
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Re: WMC 12/13: Should of won that one (17-22)

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:16 am

odom1year wrote:Stop complaining anyone other than Kobe. This is Kobe's team. When the best player of your team missed 17 of total 25 attempts and committed team high 6 turnovers. The best player should take the responsibility and blame. And for Lebron, he is number 1 in the league, better than Durant. No question about. Kobe's just at best top 5 right now.


Kobe had a bad shooting night for sure... That being said, dude it doesn't matter what we do you find a way to blame Kobe. LMAO...
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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