WMC 12/13: Mercy kill. (0-4)

Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby trodgers on Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:26 am

Big Mamma Jamma wrote:
trodgers wrote:I forgot the Lakers were playing :man6:

Why was the first half the worst? Didn't we surrender 71 damn points in the second half?


trodgers, it was a seriously ugly half of basketball. The Queens shot 31% so basically they couldn't shoot themselves out of a paperbag. The Lakers didn't move the ball like they have in the last several games ... just no passing and lots of shots late in the shot clock. They didn't push the pace (looked like many tired legs) and they had a slew of turnovers. Moreover, the FT shooting was absolutely horrendous. The Lakers should have had a nice little lead but were down by 1 going into halftime. It was seriously an ugly first half.

roo mentioned that tired legs shouldn't be an excuse but I'm sticking with that since the Lakers are pushing the pace more than they have. Once they get used to or adapt to that pace they should be fine.

One thing I will WMC about is that we need more depth at the 3 ... and we need more shooters. The league will adjust and in order to spread the floor the Lakers need more athletes who can shoot. I have no idea why we haven't given Delonte West a look since he is a really good shooter. Ugh.

I appreciate that in depth description of the first half. Thanks for that. What about the second half? How did we give up so much?
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby Scnottaken on Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:33 am

trodgers wrote:
Big Mamma Jamma wrote:
trodgers wrote:I forgot the Lakers were playing :man6:

Why was the first half the worst? Didn't we surrender 71 damn points in the second half?


trodgers, it was a seriously ugly half of basketball. The Queens shot 31% so basically they couldn't shoot themselves out of a paperbag. The Lakers didn't move the ball like they have in the last several games ... just no passing and lots of shots late in the shot clock. They didn't push the pace (looked like many tired legs) and they had a slew of turnovers. Moreover, the FT shooting was absolutely horrendous. The Lakers should have had a nice little lead but were down by 1 going into halftime. It was seriously an ugly first half.

roo mentioned that tired legs shouldn't be an excuse but I'm sticking with that since the Lakers are pushing the pace more than they have. Once they get used to or adapt to that pace they should be fine.

One thing I will WMC about is that we need more depth at the 3 ... and we need more shooters. The league will adjust and in order to spread the floor the Lakers need more athletes who can shoot. I have no idea why we haven't given Delonte West a look since he is a really good shooter. Ugh.

I appreciate that in depth description of the first half. Thanks for that. What about the second half? How did we give up so much?

It could be because at that point, Kobe tried bringing us back into the game singlehandedly, but as usually happens, the team stopped playing defense altogether once Kobe got hot. Meeks came in to start the 4th, but the defense regressed even further while Meeks was the one hot.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:58 am

Happy Thanksgiving Forum family. Miserable night. I hate the Maloofs and losing to that lottery team for the same reasons every year -- they play us harder than they do other teams (just like the suns, mavs, and several other teams, but we all know why).

I logged on to say something. But because the quality on this site is so high -- of course it has already been said. That is - "same ole Lakers." Change centers, change coaches, change PGs, add Meeks and Jamison...etc. Still the same with:

no bench production
Gasol fumbling the ball, not finishing, not making FTs when they are needed, and soft defense
Kobe being the only guy who cares
starters being played too much
inability to find energy on the second night of back to backs
can't win easily on the road
let lottery teams outplay us
same guys torching us every year -- Thornton, Brooks, Salmons,

I see no adjustments -- Phil, Brown, MDA. Still looks like the same basketball. Only bright spot was Meeks. But then he can't guard speedy PGs very well.

And Howard having Bynum-like no-effort nights is concerning.

Is this all because of Kobe and the way he plays sometimes? So that no coach can do anything because players will always respond the same way? Maybe. But he does it because his guys are not assertive. Dwight was tired and didn't fight Cousins for position. I can only hope that Nash will be that x factor that finally shows us that this team is different and can dominate on the road and keep focus. At least MDA didn't pull any punches. I still think we lose the next two games. Howard's and Gasol's body language is discouraging. We need Nash bad.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby Pig Miller on Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:12 am

this team has an identity crisis.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby D.B. Cooper on Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:32 am

Rooscooter wrote:Back to back is an excuse like Stu said.... these guys get paid to play basketball. I've never liked that excuse. They were flat from the tip on with the exception of Kobe, MWP and Meeks.

Pau faded in the 4th and Howard never really got there for some reason.

Our shooting wasn't going to stay over 50% and Kobe isn't going to shoot over 50% for a season. We had been shooting way above our average in the last few games and we are reverting to the mean.

We didn't move the ball much and dribbled way too much. Our defense is horrendous regardless of who's playing on that end. It's worse now than anytime last year.

Howard was in a fog from the beginning and he passed on at least 7 opportunities to go one on one in the post to pass to Kobe or Morris in the first half alone. I don't think he's as close to 100% as he says.... either that or something else is going on. 12 games in he should have his "legs" by now.... and instead he's slowing down.

I had a feeling Nash's injury was more serious than let on originally. A week or two turned into "indefinite" and that has turned into "up to 6 weeks". This is starting to look like Malone 2.0 again. That really means Nash won't be in game shape until around the All Star break so what ever progress we make by then will need to be re-worked to integrate him.

Chicken and the Egg with our offense. I'm not sure if Kobe took over because he could see that we were stinking in the first quarter or if he just decided to dominate the ball from the beginning but either way the entire team began to differ to him rather than move the ball and move without the ball. It looked like last year all over again and we scored like last year as well.

MDA will have to find a way to get the ball moving again to overcome our lack of playmaking until Nash or Blake come back.

I'm not sure what the answer on defense is at this point. Our vaunted front court of Howard, Hill and Gasol can't stop anyone right now and the perimeter isn't any better.... Hill hustles his butt off but he has a long ways to go as a man post defender. Hayes scored a couple times on him like he wasn't even there.

Sac has 3 historic Laker Killers in Hayes, Brooks and Thronton.... and they all lived up to their reputation against us tonight.

True but NBA players still play like crap usually on the 2nd night of a b2b. Seen this since the Shaq Phil days.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby cthroatgtr on Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:57 am

Tired game resulted in the loss. It was this game you see Howard isn't back yet. He isn't able to be the same player on the second of a back to back which tells me after games he has stiffness in that back and why he was a non-factor. Gasol was too unfortunately. This is the type of loss that sucks but happens.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:03 am

cthroatgtr wrote:Tired game resulted in the loss. It was this game you see Howard isn't back yet. He isn't able to be the same player on the second of a back to back which tells me after games he has stiffness in that back and why he was a non-factor. Gasol was too unfortunately. This is the type of loss that sucks but happens.


Ok. We have too much at stake to take on unnecessary losses to lotter teams. Rest him on these types of games -- like Pop or Doc often do with their aging stars. To do that, we need to buy out clark and sign Martin. Limit Gasol's minutes on Sat against Dallas. Add some quality depth -- which is available -- and rest guys. don't wear them out and cause confidence and other issues. I don't get it -- West, Pietrus, martin all available vets who can help us -- esp on road games.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby cthroatgtr on Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:28 am

tigerjeterkobe wrote:
cthroatgtr wrote:Tired game resulted in the loss. It was this game you see Howard isn't back yet. He isn't able to be the same player on the second of a back to back which tells me after games he has stiffness in that back and why he was a non-factor. Gasol was too unfortunately. This is the type of loss that sucks but happens.


Ok. We have too much at stake to take on unnecessary losses to lotter teams. Rest him on these types of games -- like Pop or Doc often do with their aging stars. To do that, we need to buy out clark and sign Martin. Limit Gasol's minutes on Sat against Dallas. Add some quality depth -- which is available -- and rest guys. don't wear them out and cause confidence and other issues. I don't get it -- West, Pietrus, martin all available vets who can help us -- esp on road games.


Rest him for who? It wasn't just Dwight. Reality is until the bench can play better you will get tired starters on back to backs. Then toss in a lottery team it is a recipe for disaster and has been for the past 15 years with the Lakers. K-Mart is an undersized PF that can't shoot. Not unlike Hill but Hill is bigger. He probably would help but how much? Even when Pau sucks he is playing point forward along with Kobe playing PG. You see it when Pau is out the offense doesn't flow very well

What the team lacks and has for a few years is game changers on the bench. That is what every team needs to get through these types of games. Last time I think was when you had Farmar, Sasha, Ariza & Odom on the bench. They really could help on nights like this. Only Hill right now seems to bring any energy off the bench.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby LakerFanIam on Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:51 am

Offense was completely stagnant... We couldn't even get Dwight the ball.. & when we did, he gets stripped most of the time. Kobe was extra hot, but "Kobe Ball" is not a recipe for success with this team...

That was the most frustrating loss of the year so far.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby Forward Three on Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:11 am

That was a sucky game, but it wasn't too upsetting. That was the archetypical 'this game isn't that important for us, phoning it in' type of performance. Lakers are always vulnerable in these situations. Teams that have little to prove other than "beat LA!" back-to-backs, etc. Obviously Kobe was engaged, and several other players contributed(meeks!) but those lapses on Defense were almost entirely a direct result of lack of effort, lack of movement, being a little lazy on every step and just not giving it proper intensity.

The turnovers too, just a lack of focus all around.

Which, it's one thing to have lapses like this when the team's expectations arent' as high as they are, but this team *should* be capable of winning it all this year, and you really hope they don't play too loose with the whole 'flipping the switch' concept.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby dj vitus on Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:11 pm

cthroatgtr wrote:
tigerjeterkobe wrote:
cthroatgtr wrote:Tired game resulted in the loss. It was this game you see Howard isn't back yet. He isn't able to be the same player on the second of a back to back which tells me after games he has stiffness in that back and why he was a non-factor. Gasol was too unfortunately. This is the type of loss that sucks but happens.


Ok. We have too much at stake to take on unnecessary losses to lotter teams. Rest him on these types of games -- like Pop or Doc often do with their aging stars. To do that, we need to buy out clark and sign Martin. Limit Gasol's minutes on Sat against Dallas. Add some quality depth -- which is available -- and rest guys. don't wear them out and cause confidence and other issues. I don't get it -- West, Pietrus, martin all available vets who can help us -- esp on road games.


Rest him for who? It wasn't just Dwight. Reality is until the bench can play better you will get tired starters on back to backs. Then toss in a lottery team it is a recipe for disaster and has been for the past 15 years with the Lakers. K-Mart is an undersized PF that can't shoot. Not unlike Hill but Hill is bigger. He probably would help but how much? Even when Pau sucks he is playing point forward along with Kobe playing PG. You see it when Pau is out the offense doesn't flow very well

What the team lacks and has for a few years is game changers on the bench. That is what every team needs to get through these types of games. Last time I think was when you had Farmar, Sasha, Ariza & Odom on the bench. They really could help on nights like this. Only Hill right now seems to bring any energy off the bench.

True, but the point of resting them Pop-style is to basically "throw away" the game for the benefit of our starters in the long run, especially the playoffs where there's no back-to-backs. I think we should adopt it. Imagine our starting 5 fresh and energized for the playoffs. :jam2:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby Finwë on Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:35 pm

Those suggesting that Kobe shooting a lot was a negative factor despite being effecitive (because others mentally checked out): he took 20 shots. He averaged more than that last season. We actually want the guy shooting 55% from the field and from 3 to take a good number of shots. And again, it wasn't even that many.
What did hurt us were his 7 turnovers, adding up to the team's 20. That was one of the biggest problems, and also accounts for a lesser amount of shots for everyone obviously (not that it would've mattered in the case of Howard, he probably would've kept passing it out)
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby denimPortugal on Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:42 pm

Next game at Memphis, I'm waiting a blowout...

Spurs, Thunder and Clippers are the Top3 in the West.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby 432J on Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:25 pm

denimPortugal wrote:Next game at Memphis, I'm waiting a blowout...

Spurs, Thunder and Clippers are the Top3 in the West.

and memphis is like 8-2 i believe
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby lakerfansd on Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:51 pm

Weren't we supposed to hire a defensive coach? We always looked confused on rotations and rely on Howard to cover up the mistakes. We need team defense
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby borri on Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:02 pm

denimPortugal wrote:Next game at Memphis, I'm waiting a blowout...

Spurs, Thunder and Clippers are the Top3 in the West.


We might not get a single win on this roadtrip. :man6:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby KBJelleyBean24 on Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:04 am

Playing a lottery bound Kings who were starving for a win and always play us like it's the post-season on a back-to-back starting our 3rd string point guard with the players looking forward to Thanksgiving and looking forward to playing Memphis on Friday, it was a recipe for a terrible game. Sucks that we lost, but hopefully the break gave our Lakers plenty of rest and they'll be able to take on a tough Grizzlies team on their home court, should be a good game. (Hopefully :man12:)
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby lakersyunowin on Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:43 pm

in-game WMC: at best, we are 0.500 team 13 games into the season. at worst, we are not even a 0.500 team 13 games into the season. either way, that's pretty gd awful.

starting to have nightmares that we don't even make the playoffs, dwight bolts in the summer, and kobe wastes his final years in crapitude. "should we have gone with phil" doubts will continue to linger it seems.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby borri on Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:46 pm

fkmikebrown wrote:in-game WMC: at best, we are 0.500 team 13 games into the season. at worst, we are not even a 0.500 team 13 games into the season. either way, that's pretty gd awful.

starting to have nightmares that we don't even make the playoffs, dwight bolts in the summer, and kobe wastes his final years in crapitude. "should we have gone with phil" doubts will continue to linger it seems.


frankly, i don't think that Phil can resurrect Pau's game or help Pau re-grow his balls.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby raviator on Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:20 pm

I usually don't complain about the officiating, but I have not seen so much FLOPPING since Divacs was playing. Those was some of the most bogus calls espcially against Howard. I mean spin move, guy falls down and offensive foul? Seriously? Oh and Gasol was great today. To bad he doesn't play for the Lakers....
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby CaCHooKa Man on Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:26 pm

so is it time to fire mike dantoni now
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby Sirron on Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:28 pm

Disappointing effort it appears. Kobe had to go into hero mode to make it competitive, and can't throw Dwight the ball? The team has many flaws they will have to overcome. Where were Dwight and Pau tonight?
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby Ras Algethi on Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:29 pm

Horrible game from Kobe. Too much 1 on 1 and forced shots. Our offense looked a lot better with Dwight in and spread shooters.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:29 pm

CaCHooKa Man wrote:so is it time to fire mike dantoni now


No. Trade Pau Gasol time :man9:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Oh NO we suck again (6-6)

Postby JGC on Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:29 pm

Wow, Kobe went full Lebron there at the end of the game. SMH.

I said it during the Mike Brown era, but, I think people need to consider the very real possibility, that this roster just isn't good enough. As shocking as that might seem.

Anywho, when's the next doormat coming to Staples? We need a win folks.
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