WMC 12/13: Mercy kill. (0-4)

Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby dj vitus on Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:40 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:You can't help but think that even though we're older, you have Kobe who is very capable of D'ing up if he's motivated to (just ask Bron @ ASW)...you have Dwight who at 80% is still pretty elite on defense and you have MWP...and we're still laughable on the defensive end. I'm confident that with another guy at the helm, our team would be above average, if not one of the top defensive teams in the league.

In that particular game against the Wizards, I put most of the blame on Kobe roaming around on defense. Maybe 70-80% of the blame.

I urge everyone to re-watch the game and count the number of times Kobe left his man on defense. Some plays he would be around 40 feet away from Ariza--practically on the opposite side of the baseline! No wonder he hit 7 three's and scored 25 points!

Everyone else from Blake to Metta had to constantly run around and help cover for him. I felt bad for them. They should have just stopped playing defense, too, and told Kobe to wake the HELL up.

We've all played pick-up games. All of us. When one guy on your team stops caring about defense altogether, your entire team suffers. Doesn't matter if the dude is the best offensive player on the court. Doesn't matter if the other 4 players are defensive monsters. It's 5 on 4 now, and when you snooze, you lose!

When we were winning a bunch of games earlier this month, I noticed Kobe stopped roaming around and actually took his defensive assignments seriously. :man4: Go figure. :freak2: But lately, he's defaulting back to his Kobe-roaming mode and allowing his man to take WIDE open jumper after WIDE open jumper. :bang:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby odom1year on Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:46 pm

My concern is when Kobe is being double teamed in final 6 mins of the game, does this team know how to execute in that time ? If playmaker Nash only looks at Kobe to pass, then this team will be in real danger. For last loss against Wizards game, I'm fine with that since it's just 1st game for Kobe and Pau coming back from injury.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby khmrP on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:07 pm

go figure GSW beats Wiz like they SUPPOSE to, while we look like bottom feeders.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:17 pm

Because G.S. did not become lazy all of a sudden
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby khmrP on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:30 pm

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:Because G.S. did not become lazy all of a sudden


amazing that it still happens this late into the season with all thats on the line :freak2:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby abeer3 on Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:07 am

so, now m. gasol, curry, and chris paul all seem to be injured...boy, losing a couple games against bottom feeders will look terrible if you could have been a six seed facing a three seed misssing its best player.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby Doc Brown on Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:52 am

^^^Who does Denver have that is injured?

The Clips/Memphis matchup should still be a good one in the 1st round, even with those injuries.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:18 am

Real question here, why in the hell did the Lakers let the Wizards come all the way back and beat us? Why in the world was there NO urgency or sense of pride or fire or anything else good displayed by the entire squad in the third quarter when it got away from them? Was it just complacency because they feel like they already have the 8th spot wrapped up (they aren't even close to that in reality and Utah is going to have the majority of their games at home soon, plus Dallas and Portland are going to be nipping at our tail as well)? Was it complacency that they had already beaten the Wizards with that awesome first half play? Was it complacency that we got Pau and Kobe back even if Pau was obviously rusty and Kobe wasn't 100%?

I get why D' Antoni was so frustrated. Any Laker fan watching that mess was. It was utterly embarrassing in the fact that we couldn't do anything to stop one of the worst road teams in the league. Sure they have Wall back, but you have to have some sense of pride and a strong sense of urgency.

They looked flat out hopeless. I understand dropping that game in Phoenix. They had a 7 man rotation, it was back to back, and they were dead on their feet.

But this game they had a 9 man rotation (until Jamison went down of course), they had fresh legs from three days rest, and they had just played a spectacular first half. They were at home. They were playing a not great team (better than their record shows because of injuries, but still . . .). They let Ariza light them the hell up. They let Temple light them the hell up and they let John Wall light them the hell up. That's too many guys with too many points and too many wide open shots or layups.

It's taken me days to kind of process this untimely loss. And I'm still not over it. What the hell is going on with this team? I want to hear more explanations I guess. I just don't get it.

I think the most likely thing to me is that they underestimated the Wizards based on their record and that they thought they could coast to a win after their great first half.

Ultimately it was a pathetic loss at the worst possible time - right when we could have put Utah in our rear view mirror by going up 2 1/2 games with 8 to play. It wouldn't have been a done deal but it would have gotten us very close. Plus, that was a game that most of us were counting as a win. For that to turn into a loss was huge.

Obviously we need to redeem ourselves on this upcoming road trip. As others have mentioned we really need to hammer it down and go 3 and one. The first game against GS is gigantic. We need to win if we want any chance of leapfrogging them to the 6th spot (not likely after our Wizards loss). We also CANNOT afford to lose 3 games in a row. That would be very dangerous for any playoff hopes and would open the door to the three teams behind us. Plus we simply need to get back on track.

Sucks for us as fans to seemingly care more than the Lakers themselves. :mad1:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby Juronimo on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:32 am

My answer:
We're just not that good. Despite the big names, we're a bad team.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:07 pm

Juronimo wrote:My answer:
We're just not that good. Despite the big names, we're a bad team.


Fair enough Juronimo - I always respect your opinion and think you are a great poster. But personally I'll have to agree to disagree on that assessment. I like our roster and I think we are capable of playing great ball. I saw it in fact in the first half of that game, and I've seen it in the Lakers' hunt back for the playoffs. I haven't given up on these guys yet - but I'm not sure why they gave up on themselves in that game. It's a source of frustration for me.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:01 pm

We're definetely a bad team by Lakers standards and an average squad by the league ones ... a 6th to 8th seed , 1st round exit material ... healthy or not ... too old and a huge lack of 2 ways players
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby Vasashi17 on Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:17 pm

Lakerjones wrote:
Juronimo wrote:My answer:
We're just not that good. Despite the big names, we're a bad team.


Fair enough Juronimo - I always respect your opinion and think you are a great poster. But personally I'll have to agree to disagree on that assessment. I like our roster and I think we are capable of playing great ball. I saw it in fact in the first half of that game, and I've seen it in the Lakers' hunt back for the playoffs. I haven't given up on these guys yet - but I'm not sure why they gave up on themselves in that game. It's a source of frustration for me.


I'm with you LJ....I feel that this team is ran poorly.

Listen, every team goes through injuries. Ours was excessive, but we only lost our star to 2 games. Our 2nd star wasn't at 100%, but he played nearly every game for us this season. Granted the East is weak, but the Bulls are right there in the playoff scene without their number 1 guy. You have Dallas just 2 games back in the loss column without having their number 1 guy for the majority of the season. The Spurs lost Parker for 3 weeks and maintained their playoff positioning. The Clippers went through some trials without CP3 for a bit and they still stayed afloat. I'm sure I'm missing more examples, but off the top of my head, you have teams that have faced the injury bug to one of their main 2 guys, if not their main guy and still they have had a better collective effort than the Lakers who have had both Kobe and Dwight play the majority of the games.

Of course the chemistry issue will come up and then I'm looking over to Houston, Brooklyn and the Nuggets and thinking, what's the next excuse.

This team brought in an offensive coach who frankly hasn't done squat with that offense in the past and isn't even truly visible right here in the present. Our rotations our still head-scratch worthy and I encourage you guys to check out Kobe's Washington postgame presser where he openly questions it. Meanwhile, even with sufficient personnel, we're laughable defensively. How does that even happen when you have previous defensive player of the years and 1st team All defensive players on this squad?

Like Carlisle did with the Mavs a couple seasons back you bring in a proven defensive minded coach and I'm sure we'll see better results. For comparisons sake, even Mike B has had a better winning percentage than D'Antoni if you look at their most recent track records and what they have done with their respectable Lakers squads.

Obviously, my first, second and third choice was Phil. But even if it wasn't Phil, you had a JVG that was available. You could have made amends with Shaw who is assisting a pretty good defensive unit in Indiana. I'll maintain that this unit is ran poorly. Put another guy at the helm and you would get better results.

Lastly, alot of people are complaining that this Lakers club isn't trying or showing a lack of effort. I'm sure the conspiracy theorists will appreciate this, but maybe this squad doesn't believe in what D'Antoni is selling. Maybe...they tuned him out and refuse to play hard for a guy that has championship pedigree. This dude has the audacity to call out our players and how they break the huddle with "Championship"....last I looked, there are titles within that huddle....where yours at, Mike?
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby SpencerHarrison on Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:22 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:
Lakerjones wrote:
Juronimo wrote:My answer:
We're just not that good. Despite the big names, we're a bad team.


Fair enough Juronimo - I always respect your opinion and think you are a great poster. But personally I'll have to agree to disagree on that assessment. I like our roster and I think we are capable of playing great ball. I saw it in fact in the first half of that game, and I've seen it in the Lakers' hunt back for the playoffs. I haven't given up on these guys yet - but I'm not sure why they gave up on themselves in that game. It's a source of frustration for me.


I'm with you LJ....I feel that this team is ran poorly.

Listen, every team goes through injuries. Ours was excessive, but we only lost our star to 2 games. Our 2nd star wasn't at 100%, but he played nearly every game for us this season. Granted the East is weak, but the Bulls are right there in the playoff scene without their number 1 guy. You have Dallas just 2 games back in the loss column without having their number 1 guy for the majority of the season. The Spurs lost Parker for 3 weeks and maintained their playoff positioning. The Clippers went through some trials without CP3 for a bit and they still stayed afloat. I'm sure I'm missing more examples, but off the top of my head, you have teams that have faced the injury bug to one of their main 2 guys, if not their main guy and still they have had a better collective effort than the Lakers who have had both Kobe and Dwight play the majority of the games.

Of course the chemistry issue will come up and then I'm looking over to Houston, Brooklyn and the Nuggets and thinking, what's the next excuse.

This team brought in an offensive coach who frankly hasn't done squat with that offense in the past and isn't even truly visible right here in the present. Our rotations our still head-scratch worthy and I encourage you guys to check out Kobe's Washington postgame presser where he openly questions it. Meanwhile, even with sufficient personnel, we're laughable defensively. How does that even happen when you have previous defensive player of the years and 1st team All defensive players on this squad?

Like Carlisle did with the Mavs a couple seasons back you bring in a proven defensive minded coach and I'm sure we'll see better results. For comparisons sake, even Mike B has had a better winning percentage than D'Antoni if you look at their most recent track records and what they have done with their respectable Lakers squads.

Obviously, my first, second and third choice was Phil. But even if it wasn't Phil, you had a JVG that was available. You could have made amends with Shaw who is assisting a pretty good defensive unit in Indiana. I'll maintain that this unit is ran poorly. Put another guy at the helm and you would get better results.

Lastly, alot of people are complaining that this Lakers club isn't trying or showing a lack of effort. I'm sure the conspiracy theorists will appreciate this, but maybe this squad doesn't believe in what D'Antoni is selling. Maybe...they tuned him out and refuse to play hard for a guy that has championship pedigree. This dude has the audacity to call out our players and how they break the huddle with "Championship"....last I looked, there are titles within that huddle....where yours at, Mike?


This is a really valid observation. Really not the right move for D'Antoni to lash out like that. There's a lot of rings in that huddle.

In a bigger sense, I have mixed feelings on D'Antoni. I think he has made some good decisions, but my perception is based only on what is reported and shown in the media. I have no idea how the practices are run, what his internal logic is for substitutions, what the team chemistry is like, etc.

I think he is an easy guy to blame when things don't look good. That could be right or wrong, but like most coaches, there's a target on him. I'm also a Chargers fan, and lived through the confusing purgatory of Norv Turners last few years. Loved by players, one of the best coaches in the world, but not good enough to win with the roster available. For some reason that fans don't get to understand.

A loss at home to a team like Washington is tough to swallow. The Lakers have actually played decent, consistent basketball over the last month or so. The Suns game was rough, but it made sense. The Washington loss... Tough. Confusing.

Was Kobe's ankle still jacked up? Is Pau making baby steps? Why the defensive lapse in the second half? Did Kobe just forget how to play D, or was it part of a gameplan to let Ariza beat you from 3? It really is the kind of loss that demands answers. D'Antoni is part of it, for sure. But he can't be the only element causing problems.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:51 pm

^^ Great post Spencer Harrison. I pretty much agree with everything you're saying. It's a head-scratching loss and one that has confounded me. I agree that I think D' Antoni is a part of it, especially with his lack of control in the fourth quarter. But really to me, just like Karacha said, we lost that game in the third quarter by giving away that 16 point lead through just some atrocious ball and that seemed to be on the Lakers themselves not the coach. I agree with you Vash that the line about "championship" in the huddle was pretty lame (wasn't that the kind of sarcasm that got Van Exel sent out of here?). And you know I'm no fan of D' Antoni as the coach of the Lakers. But that third quarter was just befuddling. And to me that fell more on the team than coach.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby Finwë on Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:22 pm

I remember every one of the recent Laker squads since 2010 being a little too complacent/comfortable in the RS at times.
I remember the guys getting blown out by an undermanned Bucks team at home with PHIL, the praised motivator, as coach. Similar things happened in the 2009-2010 RS too, and then we won the chip.
The difference is that, in 2010 we were a truly elite team, and feeling overconfident was kinda expected. Plus, the guys knew it was playoff time that mattered, and felt that they could kinda breeze through the RS and then "turn it on" in the playoffs. It was true, not a great principle but can't argue with the result.
However, from 2011-> onwards, we have been less and less "elite", and yet we've kept the same complacent mentality.
In 2011, remember PJ energetically replying to reporters asking about the Lakers' struggles: "is it the playoffs yet? is it the playoffs yet?". That clearly showed the mentality that we had, that come playoff time we'd be able to "turn it on". We didn't, and we got swepted.
But that team was coming from back to back titles. So again, it was somewhat understandable.
What's NOT understandable at all is that, after the 2011 embarrassment, after looking like s*** through many games with Brown, after going out again in the 2nd round looking "done", after going 0-8 in the pre-season, after being 8 games under .500 at one point, after potentially facing one of the biggest sports embarrassments in history, the team can STILL become too comfortable, overconfident and complacent and lose must-win games.
I understand having personnel issues, and pieces that don't really fit, I get it if we're struggling because of injuries, or because we've had 3 coaches and the season isn't even done, but what I don't get, one bit, is that after everything that's happened, and how important each game is, our guys can still find ways to get overconfident, play lazy and lose. Absolutely baffling.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:33 pm

^^ Great post Finwë. It really is unfathomable right now. That's why I'm still struggling with it. Agree with you that we've seen it before, but that it made at least a little sense when we were a great title contending team. When we are battling just to make the playoffs and save this horrible season? No. It makes no sense at all. :disagree:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby charvin on Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:52 pm

Vasashi, I think with the teams (with maybe the exception of Dallas, but I think they're still pretty good defensively) you've listed that have injured players, they are quite different from this Lakers squad. The Bulls and the Spurs have defensive-minded coaches and as such, don't have to overly rely on a certain player(s) or offense to carry them as well as unselfish team play. The Clippers are more athletic allowing them to operate a different type of tempo if necessary (speed it up or slow it down).

The Lakers don't have either a great defensive team nor athletic ability. If you gave them one or the other, of course, I'm willing to say that the Lakers would not be in this position right now.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:59 pm

Juronimo wrote:My answer:
We're just not that good. Despite the big names, we're a bad team.


I've been saying this since last summer to some degree. The "games" that made the names "Names" are a thing of the past as well.

Fans associating the 2006 version of these guys with the current version is the source of most of the confusion of why we're not winning 70 games and "dominating" IMO. Only Howard is near the top of his total game and he's only been there 10% of the season. Pau is a shell of his 2008 self as is Nash. Kobe is still Kobe but even the most die-hard Laker fan has to admit that he's not close to his 2008 self either.

When you add it up we have a slow team of former "Alphas" that are finding it difficult to change their stripes. They have been supported by a bench that has no scorer and is extremely inconsistent as well.

Not dumping Pau in the offseason for a top flight SF and/or a scoring guard off the bench has been the biggest mistake we've made on a personnel front. He hasn't fit from day one and has declined to the point where our return will not be good....
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:20 pm

^If anything, Mitch has a chance to evaluate this roster and make changes. Our championship hopes are slim to none at this point. So, we'll just have to trust Mitch can get pieces that fit this roster together during the offseason...
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby khmrP on Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:43 am

when you're constantly give up big leads and lose those are signs of being a bad team IMO.....when i see teams like Clev/Orl etc. get big lead on Mia, I just know Mia is coming back. We're in the same category as these Clev's/Orl's types when we get big leads, more often then not we're give up those leads and also end up losing as well but we're doing it against bad teams is the worse part :bang:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby The Rock on Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:16 am

I'm not too upset by that loss vs Washington ideally you want to be in a bracket where you can have the most success....so we're still in the 1/8 matchup group with San Antonio sooo
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby pound4pound1 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:44 am

inexcusable for so many reasons


1. three days off
2. lose to a bottom feeding team that only has 6 wins on the road
3. lose at home
4. lose with all your players available
5. lose after having an 18pt lead
6. lose after just losing to a scrub team



that game ruined my entire weekend
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby dj vitus on Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:56 am

The Rock wrote:I'm not too upset by that loss vs Washington ideally you want to be in a bracket where you can have the most success....so we're still in the 1/8 matchup group with San Antonio sooo

While matching up with SA is ideal, we really need to just worry about making the playoffs first.

I doubt we grab the 7 seed with Houston just beating SA, and GS still 9 games above .500 (like we'll ever get there, lol).

Utah and Dallas are only 2 games behind; Portland only 3! Dallas just beat Atlanta, Boston, and Utah. Not an easy task. Also, Portland, notorious for sucking on the road, just won in San Antonio, and then Chicago and Atlanta back to back. And here we are getting embarrassed by lottery-bound bottom feeders. :man10:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby Heavier Than Heaven on Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:04 am

Not really a WMC, but more of a question. If we happen to pull off the obviously insane miracle of winning an NBA championship this year, would Mike Brown get a ring (even though he was fired)?
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Re: WMC 12/13: Didn't see the game. We lost. (36-34)

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:12 am

I don't think he would because he was only here for 5 games or so.
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