WMC 12/13: Mercy kill. (0-4)

Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby revgen on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:20 am

Meeks and Morris brought the young legs that this old team needed to get the win tonight. Which is both uplifting and disturbing at the same time. If we have to rely on the play of our younger players like Hill, Morris, and Meeks to determine whether we have a good night or not, then we're not going to be a stable team. Hopefully Nash coming back and Pau rounding into shape will help bring some consistency going forward.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:24 am

Why the hell aren't Antawn and Jordan playing? :disagree: :bang: :mad1:
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby Scnottaken on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:29 am

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:Why the hell aren't Antawn and Jordan playing? :disagree: :bang: :mad1:

'Antoni can only remember 7 names at any given time.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby Juronimo on Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:49 am

Kobe played the entire second half. He will burn out.

We shot over 30 threes. Not enough post play out of Pau/Dwight.

Strange lineups and rotations, Metta off the bench? Now I'm seeing that they're going to move Kobe to the 3, WTF? This is why people were screaming bloody murder around here when MDA was hired instead of Phil. :bang:
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby lakersfever on Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:15 am

Once Steve Nash comes back, Kobe will get more rest. Until then, he has to carry the team. Nash is definitely not going to turn this team into a contender. So yeah, we can't keep MDA around much longer. The longer we keep him around, the less time the next head coach and the team will have to adjust and turn this season around.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby denimPortugal on Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:19 am

Playing like this we have few chances against the Warriors...and the Knicks and Nuggts!
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:07 am

Definitely not the way you want to win.

1. Too many threes.. too many threes... too many threes...
2. Lapses. Defensively and offensively just falling asleep for a few possessions.

But those are things that are correctable. When we get a legit PG running the show we'll get better looks than just 3s all over the floor. When we get a better PG people are more involved and they tend to perform better on both sides.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby abeer3 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:25 am

yeah, people keep claiming the lakers are putting too much on nash's return, but...c'mon...that's chris duhon starting at pg out there, folks. it's not just about nash's greatness; it's about his non-suckitude. value over replacement is the key phrase here.

the defense still isn't consistent, which annoys me, but imo, it's getting better. i'm seeing fewer easy shot attempts for dwight's guy after he goes to help; fewer breakdowns that lead to layups. again, it's still happening, but there's progress there.

my wmc is the same as many others: dantoni needs to figure out how to use pau and dwight together (this should include using pau on the block while dwight is in the game). i was not in favor of that hire, but since i have to live through at least a year of it, i'd like him to prove that he's not a one-trick pony and adjust his system to accommodate what should be one of the best rosters in the game.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby The Rock on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:27 am

^ starting Meeks and sending MWP to the bench is a start for D'Antoni. It opens things up for Pau/Howard inside. Ron, lets face it, isn't exactly a quick decision maker, doesn't have a quick shot release, he takes up some of the post area.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:28 am

abeer3 wrote:yeah, people keep claiming the lakers are putting too much on nash's return, but...c'mon...that's chris duhon starting at pg out there, folks. it's not just about nash's greatness; it's about his non-suckitude. value over replacement is the key phrase here.

the defense still isn't consistent, which annoys me, but imo, it's getting better. i'm seeing fewer easy shot attempts for dwight's guy after he goes to help; fewer breakdowns that lead to layups. again, it's still happening, but there's progress there.

Agreed on both of these points. When they are actually focused defensively they're actually pretty damn good. The problem is they're not focused for more than 6 minutes a time and then they make mistakes which lead to opportunities for the other team.

That stretch in the 3rd quarter when were down by 18 *shudder* and they locked down... that was actually a ton of fun to watch. Charlotte was just stunned.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby easyguy on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:35 am

Our BIGGEST problem is that we cannot control or even limit the opposing PG/SG from penetrating and having their ways with us. Dwight cannot control them, they will either loop the ball over his block attempt or just pass it to his man who he was guarding. We cannot win this type of we are going to outscore the opponents, that might have worked if we had in his prime Kobe, Pau, Nash and MWP, but we dont. We need to control the tempo...How many live by the 3 or die by the 3 have won a chip?
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby The Rock on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:41 am

^ Miami last year

But thats why we have Nash, he'll put the ball in our best players' hands...Dwight, Gasol and Kobe. Whatever shot results from that we live with it. If its just jacking up 3s left and right like last night then we wont. I dont mind us shooting a lot of 3s as long as it comes in the flow of the offense and thats what the defense is giving you
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby Lakerjones on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:01 am

easyguy wrote:Our BIGGEST problem is that we cannot control or even limit the opposing PG/SG from penetrating and having their ways with us. Dwight cannot control them, they will either loop the ball over his block attempt or just pass it to his man who he was guarding. We cannot win this type of we are going to outscore the opponents, that might have worked if we had in his prime Kobe, Pau, Nash and MWP, but we dont. We need to control the tempo...How many live by the 3 or die by the 3 have won a chip?


^^ Very good post and I agree with you. Unfortunately Nash doesn't solve this problem either as many have said. He at least will play better team D than Duhon does. But it's a sore point.

We need to have a real defensive scheme out there. Chuck Persons is capable of installing that. He did it with Phil in his last year - funneling the drivers to Bynum in the lane and Andrew doing his best D12 impression. That worked and was the biggest factor in our 17-1 stretch. The problem seemed to be that Andrew or our guys or both just didn't keep up that focus after that.

Now that we have Dwight, we should be doing something similar. But I'm not sure that D' Antoni will really make that happen.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby borri on Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:41 pm

Lakerjones wrote:
easyguy wrote:Our BIGGEST problem is that we cannot control or even limit the opposing PG/SG from penetrating and having their ways with us. Dwight cannot control them, they will either loop the ball over his block attempt or just pass it to his man who he was guarding. We cannot win this type of we are going to outscore the opponents, that might have worked if we had in his prime Kobe, Pau, Nash and MWP, but we dont. We need to control the tempo...How many live by the 3 or die by the 3 have won a chip?


^^ Very good post and I agree with you. Unfortunately Nash doesn't solve this problem either as many have said. He at least will play better team D than Duhon does. But it's a sore point.

We need to have a real defensive scheme out there. Chuck Persons is capable of installing that. He did it with Phil in his last year - funneling the drivers to Bynum in the lane and Andrew doing his best D12 impression. That worked and was the biggest factor in our 17-1 stretch. The problem seemed to be that Andrew or our guys or both just didn't keep up that focus after that.

Now that we have Dwight, we should be doing something similar. But I'm not sure that D' Antoni will really make that happen.


We are funneling everything to D12. And he's been exceptional at help d. Problem is, no one covers his man. Thus, they are raping us on the offensive boards. Drew was complaining about the exact same this last year.

Right now, it's probably better to stop funneling if we don't cover Dwight's man.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby revgen on Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:48 pm

^We weren't covering for Drew last year when we weren't even funneling. Drew was chasing guards at the 3pt line ala Anderson Varajao. It doesn't matter what scheme we use, when the anchor (Bynum or D12) leaves to help, they don't get any help. No scheme that we use will change that until the players change. So far, the only guy who has really shown any type of commitment to helping D12 when he leaves is Jordan Hill.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby karacha on Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:21 pm

Why is that so hard to do? I mean, help defense? They have to be aware of the problem, right?
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:25 pm

It's not that we aren't doing it, it's that we're not being consistent. That run we had when we came back in the last 18 minutes, we had no trouble covering for his man.

It's just about effort, not really about coaching or anything like that. We showed we can do it, it just has to be consistent.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby The Rock on Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:42 pm



harder to rotate when you got Duhon/Kobe/MWP/Pau, all slow as hell and out of position. You split them up and add more speed into the lineup.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:46 pm

Well, if Kobe and Ron were not playing so many minutes and asked to do so much, they probably wouldn't try to conserve energy and take plays off so much -- Kobe much more than Ron.

I find it incredibly frustrating that with Nash out, we only have one player who can run a pick and roll effectively -- Kobe -- and when he does, it often results in a score (either dunk, layup, or kickout to a wide open 3 point shooter when his man collapses in the paint, or FTs for the roll man), or if a miss for the roll man, our D is set up to get back in transition because the shooters are starting to get back when the roll man shoots (and several defenders collapsed on him and are deep under the basket) and Kobe is in a good spot to get back too. Problem is that Kobe very rarely passes it to the roll man - like last night, Dwight was WIDE OPEN with 24 seconds left in the game and the Lakers up 1, and Kobe chucks a contested 19 footer as he is gliding sideways. Bron, Parker, CP3, Nash, and all other play makers make that pass 100% of the time. That is Kobe's job as facilitator -- and that was Dwight freaking Howard rolling to the basket. Kobe ALWAYS has to take the glory shots (those that will be deemed game winners in the final minute of play) and very rarely passes in the final 3 or 4 minutes (save for example that one play they ran for Bynum last year and a Gasol 3 last year). At the 1:30 mark, he drove against 3 players who collapsed on him and had Morris all by himself in the corner, and Metta all alone in the other corner (and you could see the frustration on both of their faces and in their body language). I wish Kobe (with Nash out and when he returns) would make the RIGHT play in those game-ending situations too -- and not just at the end of the half or a few times a game. Granted, he hit a couple of shots. But aside from the layup that he made, the two jumpers were decent shots for him -- he was not gliding, only had one defender on him, and Howard was not wide open (nor Morris).

I know I know -- he leads the team in assists...blah blah blah. He could average 12 assists with Nash out and this team would be much better for it.

Anyway, the fact that we are running MDA's system and havent picked up (because there is nobody) a single player who can run it even marginally effectively while Nash and Blake are out is madening.

So what if the Bulls waive Nate Robinson? Think he can help us? I do. Despite his knuckleheadedness.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:48 pm

It was the 2nd half of that 3rd quarter lineup that really made things happen. I think it was Morris/Meeks/Kobe/Artest/Howard. That's a lineup that can rotate and move very well.

Duhon for all of his defensive acumen is an alright on the ball defender, but a pretty horrid help defender.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby easyguy on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:01 pm

karacha wrote:Why is that so hard to do? I mean, help defense? They have to be aware of the problem, right?



Maybe we are really Old and Slow. I remembered once I played with these college basketball players at school and I knew my assignment was to watch my man, but it was difficult to stay in front of these faster players, no matter how hard I tried. Sound simple enough, but maybe our guys are just too slow for these faster younger guards. Or maybe that we are lazy...who knows. :man9:
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby KB24 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:16 pm

Either we are getting awful losses or awful wins...
we are consistently awful.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:44 pm

KB24 wrote:Either we are getting awful losses or awful wins...
we are consistently awful.


Um yesterday's game was really the only win this season I can think of where we just played terrible and still won, maybe the Wizards game as well.

Most of our wins have either been by a good margin or we lose pretty badly.
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby khmrP on Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:04 pm

KB24 wrote:Either we are getting awful losses or awful wins...
we are consistently awful.

:bow:
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Re: WMC 12/13: We actually beat Bobcats? Lucky! (12-14)

Postby odom1year on Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:41 pm

KB24 wrote:Either we are getting awful losses or awful wins...
we are consistently awful.


It's true when you don't play defense consistently.
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