WMC 12/13: Mercy kill. (0-4)

Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:23 pm

I don't trust either to make plays for others. I don't trust either to make plays defensively......

What I do trust in, is Glock scoring the rock when given the time. I do trust that if Glock were given Blake's minutes last season, you wouldn't see as many stinkers as Blake put up and if it came down to one shot at the end of the game for whatever reason, give me Glock there too.

To put it another way....

Blake doesn't score, doesn't space the floor, doesn't create, doesn't play defense, he's a body on the floor for 18 minutes a night....

Glock scores, spaces the floor, doesn't create, doesn't play defense, he's at least a threat on one end for 18 minutes a night....
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby karacha on Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:49 pm

I'm with Doc here. Glock creating is a disaster. But to play limited minutes and score 5-6 points? Maybe more if he gets hot? This kid can do it. It's not like Blake really creates for others either. He probably defends better then Glock at the 1, but... not by much these days. Blake does try harder on D, that's for sure. But Blake will almost never get hot, because to get hot -- as Phil Jackson used to say about Radman -- you have to shoot. If you hit, you'll keep shooting to stay hot. And if you miss -- you still keep shooting to get hot. In limited minutes, I would be OK with Glock chucking some shots. We need those guys who are not afraid to shoot. He can't create, but if you play him with Jamison or Pau... they can create their own shot anyway. Just have to be smart with the rotations.

Basically, I like guys like DJ Odom (athletic, can slash), Glock (chucker) and CDR (has experience, can and will score, albeit inconsistently) -- over people who, well... just won't do much at all -- Morris, Blake, Duhon.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Finwë on Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:13 pm

I'm with Doc too, I've been advocating Glock as the potential backup 1 for a while now. I've already explained why I'd do that, and Doc and Karacha made some good points too.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby The Rock on Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:29 pm

therealdeal wrote:I still trust Blake far more than I trust Goudelock. This was the first game where he was given any sort of responsibility and he failed that responsibility of making the offense run. He can score well and that's fine, but we tried that last season and it didn't work particularly well.

Obviously Blake isn't ideal either, but I just simply don't trust Goudelock to run an offense.


Whats the point of having Blake if he's gonna leave O'fers across the board? He had one game of 4 assists other than that 2 assists or less in the other 3 preseason games despite playing the most minutes of any of our backup PGs and also playing with the starters.

Horrendous 2011 season
There were also far too many games when the nine-year veteran wouldn't make himself a presence at all. Blake scored two points or less 16 times this season (including going scoreless seven times) and he also had 21 games where he dished out two assists or fewer.


http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/31137/2011-12-report-card-steve-blake


And team defense got worse when he stepped on the floor next to starters

http://www.bdasports.com/how-chris-duhon-will-benefit-the-lakers/
Derek Fisher – 0.98

Ramon Sessions – 1.05

Steve Blake – 1.10

The Lakers starting four performed much worse with Steve Blake than with Fisher or Sessions.

This is particularly bad news considering Derek Fisher was past his prime and Ramon Sessions is not considered as a defensive stopper.



And Blake is now 1 year older and there is no indication he's gonna be any reliable this year. Hes played the most mins of any our backup PGs this preseason and yet hasn't made a single 3 & neither is he producing in any adequate manner on other aspects of the floor. So many red flags with this guy, Im completely done with him

Id rather go with Glock..sure hes not a true "point guard", hes not distributing, at least he's aggressive, at least he spaces the floor, at least he looks to be at threat to pick and roll where if he's open he'll shoot of if he's doubled he'll pass the ball. Blake does nothing except run around and deliver the ball in the spots that where his teammates like which Glock can learn to do over time
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby The Rock on Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:34 pm

karacha wrote:I'm with Doc here. Glock creating is a disaster. But to play limited minutes and score 5-6 points? Maybe more if he gets hot? This kid can do it. It's not like Blake really creates for others either. He probably defends better then Glock at the 1, but... not by much these days. Blake does try harder on D, that's for sure. But Blake will almost never get hot, because to get hot -- as Phil Jackson used to say about Radman -- you have to shoot. If you hit, you'll keep shooting to stay hot. And if you miss -- you still keep shooting to get hot. In limited minutes, I would be OK with Glock chucking some shots. We need those guys who are not afraid to shoot. He can't create, but if you play him with Jamison or Pau... they can create their own shot anyway. Just have to be smart with the rotations.

Basically, I like guys like DJ Odom (athletic, can slash), Glock (chucker) and CDR (has experience, can and will score, albeit inconsistently) -- over people who, well... just won't do much at all -- Morris, Blake, Duhon.


But at least we known Glock when given consistent minutes can give us reliable production. IN January last year 44% from 3s, Scored in double figures in 4 times out of a 5 game stretch.

Nobody is stopping nobody at the PG position, sure we can provide team defense but we've never had quality defenders at the PG position and always have gotten lit up but we've received adequate production from our guys to somewhat match it...Farmar was horrendous and averaged only like 1.5 assists in 18mins a game but he gave us consistent 3 point shooting and could go off a game here and there.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Ariza3 on Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:36 pm

glock can shoot better than blake and can attack the rim with the floater. defense is about the same so thats not really an issue. glock will get better, blake will stay around the same as he has with the lakers. our new system doesnt really require a pg with a pg mentality as everyone sets eachother up. last game we saw all the extra passes which led to open 3's/midrange and also when they made those, they could fake and drive to the rim (what ebanks did).

if glock can continue to improve and also on D than i say we somehow get rid of the extra pg's and give the spot to glock. or let him share with blake. glock can shoot very well for us and be a great spark for us like he was when kobe was out and he stepped up big time. having him meeks jamison and now i guess ebanks thats a lot of midrange/3 point shooters as well as glock's ability to drive with the floater and ebanks drive and layup in which they can finish or kick out to jamison or meeks once the defense has to respect both their 3's and finishing abilities.

the more they all play together the better they'll get. its up to mike brown if he wants that or wants to continue messing with rotations until the playoffs where we wouldnt have a bench bc they all have no chemistry or confidence.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Snakell Beast on Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:44 pm

I'm kind of on the Glock train now too. More than anything else, if we want we can give him the green light to shoot 10 shots per game at the back-up PG, and he can at least PRODUCE. The only caveat is DJ Odom. I want to see how effective he is with the primary back-up rotation. He might wind up being the best option...I would at LEAST like to see him get the chance, but as far as I am concerned it is down to those two.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby The Rock on Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:46 pm

I noted this last week, when Glock was in last weeks gm vs Utah at home, he ran the P & R/ P & P with Jamison, it got the defense rotating, at least theres some activity there, when Blake is trying to do the P & R nobody is gonna try defending him they know he sucks, everybody is gonna stay home. At least Glock is a threat to score and he'll space the floor for 2nd unit guys like Jamison and Pau, Blake does nothing and neither does Morris. Its not like Goudelock chooses to pound the rock and try to take someone off the dribble, the guy can catch and shoot (Remember last year's Clippers preseason game, remember the opening night game vs CHicago, remember the game vs MIami at home). All of those games he just caught and shot the ball. IF Pau does what he's supposed to do which is sit in the post and operate good things will happen and guys like GLock and Meeks will do well.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby BDG on Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:57 pm

Blake's approaching Darius Morris territory in terms of screwing up the offense when he's on the floor.

This team misses a guy like (dare I say) '09/'10 Farmar who could attack the basket and create for others off the bench.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Weezy on Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:30 pm

Farmar was very bad at times, shooting like he thought he had the green light and making some bad decisions with the ball. That said I would take him back in a second over Blake and Morris, because he could get to the hoop, create some offense, had some big shot ability, and could have some good defensive efforts. He was good for around 7 ppg and unlike Blake who pretty much never has a good game, Farmar at least had one every few games or so. We do need a PG like that off the bench, it's a weakness for us right now.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby revgen on Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:55 pm

The fact that so many of you are arguing Blake vs Glock tells me that we really need to find an outside solution to our backup PG problem.

We have 2 expiring contracts (Morris, Clark) and Duhon's 2nd year is only guaranteed for 1.5 million. Their total salaries are 5.7 mil. If we can pry a better PG from another team looking to shed salary, via a trade, it would help.

I've suggested in another thread trying to get Andre Miller, since Denver is over the cap and must cut salary to resign Lawson and stay under the luxury tax threshold. They've already used their amnesty on "Birdman", so they don't have that option.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:02 pm

^^^ That would be a hell of a steal.

Cleveland needs a backup PG, as their two backups fighting for a job right now are in terribad. Send Blake or Duhon over there with Glock/Clark and bring Boobie Gibson back to play some PG.

42% 3 point shooter and is a solid role player. He's got an injury history, but if you keep Blake or Duhon as an emergency plan, instead of the backup plan, it would work out.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:16 pm

Did I hear someone say Andre Miller?... I'm on board with that.... I've always liked his game and he knows what to do and when..... he may be old but hell so is everyone else on this team outside of Dwight......
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby revgen on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:18 pm

Rooscooter wrote:Did I hear someone say Andre Miller?... I'm on board with that.... I've always liked his game and he knows what to do and when..... he may be old but hell so is everyone else on this team outside of Dwight......


That's why I think it would work to have a Goudelock/Miller backcourt coming off the bench. Glock can guard PG's, but he can't run an offense. Dre can guard SG's and run the offense so Glock won't have to. Glock can just shoot and score on that end of the floor.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:23 pm

^^OK.... I'm with ya.... text this over to Mitch and get the ball rolling.....
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:28 pm

Miller might only get 10-12 minutes a game at backup PG....

Lawson
Iggy / Brewer
Gallo / Chandler

Let's hope he gets a little pissed over there and demands a trade. :man9:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:27 pm

Dre Miller running the 2nd unit ? too good to be true ... plus I don't care about his age , a total of 6 games missed in 13 seasons ... dude is a rock
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby The Rock on Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:28 pm

Andre Miller re-signed with the Nuggets lol he aint leaving DEN anytime soon
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby revgen on Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:57 pm

The Rock wrote:Andre Miller re-signed with the Nuggets lol he aint leaving DEN anytime soon


That was before the Nuggets traded for Iggy. Their payroll situation is very different now than it was in July when they signed Miller. Harrington's contract starting in 2013-2014 had a 50% guarantee freeing up room to help sign Lawson to a bigger deal. Iggy's contract provides no flexibility at all. On top of that, Iggy's contract is larger than Harrington and Afflalo's contracts combined.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby lakersyunowin on Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:42 am

how the hell we gonna get andre miller

oh yea...mitch :man10:

but seriously...i'm dubious
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby KB24 on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:54 am

The Rock wrote:Andre Miller re-signed with the Nuggets lol he aint leaving DEN anytime soon

in other words...he will retire in Denver.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby therealdeal on Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:14 am

I'm still not on board with Goudelock running the offense with the second unit. I understand what you're all saying in terms of what he brings, but at least with Blake the ball moves and other people can get involved within the offense. He makes passes to guys that just don't finish because they're bench guys like Sacre who's hands can be Kwame-like at times.

Goudelock doesn't have any passing ability whatsoever and his "scoring" isn't impressive when he's the only one with the ball. If the team ran SOLELY the Princeton with the bench, then I'm down with Goudelock because in that case he doesn't have to create the offense is already doing it.

But if we're looking for an undersized SG to play PG off the bench, I'd like to see what DJO can do. His athleticism is game changing and he's a much better defender. He has a similar scoring ability to Goudelock too. When given time he's shown some really good things and if Blake, Duhon, Morris, and Goudelock deserve a shot, why doesn't he?

And yes to Miller obviously but he's not going to get moved unless he gets upset. If we're looking for a team to bite, try Cleveland because they have the room for Blake/Duhon with nothing in return according to the trade machine.

Send them Blake/Duhon/Goudelock/Clark and we can get back just Gibson if we wanted to.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:20 am

Why haven't we played DJO more? I still don't get it. He has shown he can add things we need. I don't get it...
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby nthydro on Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:04 pm

interesting Duhon coming in before Blake...
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby lakersyunowin on Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:05 pm

nthydro wrote:interesting Duhon coming in before Blake...


might not be a bad thing..never know. they're both pretty bad though lol
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