WMC 12/13: Mercy kill. (0-4)

Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby KBJelleyBean24 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:20 pm

JGC wrote:
Weezy wrote:
JGC wrote:My other WMC is that now with D12 hating it here, that's going to make a lot of other players hesitate in wanting to come and play here with Kobe.


I highly doubt that, everyone in the league knows what a baby Dwight is. Also, didn't Dwight top a lot of NBA's most hated players lists this offseason, because of his indecision and baby like ways? Players that come here know what they are getting into playing with Kobe, if they want to win they will deal with it, some even flourish with it. Especially those that value winning over having just having "fun", work hard, and aren't so sensitive, but know it's a job and deal with it like grown men.


Yeah, I don't know, it's not like we have the best track record with big name free agents wanting to come here. But this is now the 3rd big name big man where there has been drama. Shaq/Gasol/Dwight. I'm sure there's a fantastic reason for the drama but still, drama. And players can value winning but not want to deal with the drama right? What does it matter anyway, we won't be in a position to sign a free agent for years and years to come.

I don't remember the list exactly, but I remember what you're talking about. Wasn't Gasol one of the most hated? I find that hard to believe. It's probably just some pub looking to get hits.

What are you talking about we don't have anyone under contract after next season
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby Ariza3 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:36 pm

can't believe we had cp3 and stern vetoed it. like I love Nash but could you imagine.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:51 pm

I'm so done with this team right now. As I said in another thread, there seems to be a ton of team issues. We need to start really cleaning up this roster. Pau needs to go, Ebanks, Clark, and Duhon need to right in back of him. Morris needs to stop starting and be relegated to the bench.

We need some players with passion that aren't afraid of the expectations of our championship aspirations as an organization & as fans. We need guys with winning mindsets that compete for the full 48 minutes; not just a half or a quarter. Mitch, I plead, please do something, we need help badly...
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby Nikez on Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:40 am

brandonr2001 wrote:remember when we were all this excited about this season... and we were all feeling like this...


yea seems like its been forever since that feeling

I remember....

After christmas day it was all "whoo nash makes us great" to "trade everyone except the starters" i believe its just as ridiculous to start mailing in the season as it is to predict us winning a championship or even getting deep in the playoffs. We are in much longer than expected stage of learning eachothers games and how to play together to win games. Injuries also are playing a part but we are doing what the lakers have been doing for years except in previous years our players found a way to get it done.

Our players need more confidence and killer instinct to start games right and finish them all the way through. They need to get past the learning curve quicker and start playing like its the playoffs. We are simply to talented to not be able to figure it out, it is taking longer than expected. Dwight needs to be more active in the p&r and under the basket game. Jamison needs minutes, morris simply cannot start and pau really has to find ways to be more of a threat.

The biggest thing Dantony needs to do is use "common sense" coaching and just let the players play together without forcing a certain style. We desperately need to find an identity to stick with and work at so that we can be a legit force again.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby MC on Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:17 am

KBJelleyBean24 wrote:
JGC wrote:
Weezy wrote:
JGC wrote:My other WMC is that now with D12 hating it here, that's going to make a lot of other players hesitate in wanting to come and play here with Kobe.


I highly doubt that, everyone in the league knows what a baby Dwight is. Also, didn't Dwight top a lot of NBA's most hated players lists this offseason, because of his indecision and baby like ways? Players that come here know what they are getting into playing with Kobe, if they want to win they will deal with it, some even flourish with it. Especially those that value winning over having just having "fun", work hard, and aren't so sensitive, but know it's a job and deal with it like grown men.


Yeah, I don't know, it's not like we have the best track record with big name free agents wanting to come here. But this is now the 3rd big name big man where there has been drama. Shaq/Gasol/Dwight. I'm sure there's a fantastic reason for the drama but still, drama. And players can value winning but not want to deal with the drama right? What does it matter anyway, we won't be in a position to sign a free agent for years and years to come.

I don't remember the list exactly, but I remember what you're talking about. Wasn't Gasol one of the most hated? I find that hard to believe. It's probably just some pub looking to get hits.

What are you talking about we don't have anyone under contract after next season


I was thinking the same thing..... outside of Nash they have nothing locked up after next year.

and for those who continually point towards Bryant as an issue somehow drawing FAs..... it won't be a problem after next year, Bryant's days as a primary focus are coming to and end.

Not that I think that was an issue in the first place........ This market does most of the selling for FA, nothing to do with which Star is here at any particular time.

Now picking coaches? that is another story...... outside of getting Jackson at time in the 90s, which was a no brainer if he wanted to come, they are atrocious at coaching decisions........... To me that is where it really shows that the Buss family are indeed business men but not basketball men. The coach and matching the talent is the hardest part of the gig IMO..... because that is picking your philosophy as a basketball organization......... the Buss family are boneheads in this regard..... got lucky with Riley and Jackson wanting the gig back in the day.......... horrible at finding a guy.

This team is in perfect position to rise like a Phoenix after this little run with this vet team..... I've read some articles recently that seem to point to the Clips somehow owning the city for not only now but the future? well I say we'll see about that!!!!!!!!!!!! and wake me up when the Clips actually win something of significance with a bunch of players that have won nothing over their careers and/or are injury prone.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby trodgers on Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:18 am

Looks like there are some spots opening up on the bandwagon. Nice to see.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:27 am

Lakers problems: It’s all about the defense
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Jan 6, 2013, 9:28 AM EST
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Pau Gasol cannot find his place in the Mike D’Antoni offense. Steve Nash is still clearly not fully used to his new teammates. The Lakers lack shooters. With all the talent the Buss family is paying a pretty penny (well, many pennies) for we all expected an exceptional offense from the Lakers. So it’s been better than a lot of people realize (sixth in the NBA in points per possession) but inconsistent.

However, their offense not why the Lakers are two games below .500 more than 30 games into the season.

Their real problem is the defense. It is 17th in the NBA. They struggle in areas that good teams — like the Clippers on Friday — can exploit.

Don’t think it’s all about the defense? Look at the loss to the Clippers Friday night — Gasol was nonexistent on offense, they missed a lot of shots and the Lakers still put up 102 points. Problem is they gave up 107. Or to put it another way, they scored 107.5 points per 100 possessions in the game (slightly above their season average), but they gave up 113.8 per 100.

There seems to be a “once Dwight Howard gets healthy everything will be just fine” feeling around the Lakers and their fans. And that would certainly help. But it’s not the only issue and who knows what that timeline is anyway. I went back and re-watched every point the Lakers surrendered the last two games (thanks NBA.com) and it’s clear the issues are bigger than any one player.

Los Angeles is surrendering 42 points a game in the paint, seventh most in the NBA. That’s an easy one to say is all about Howard, but it’s really about rotations.

There is a great example in the Clippers game Friday, with just over 2 minutes left in the first quarter. The Clippers are taking the ball out under the Lakers basket, CP3 gets free on the left baseline off a Ronny Turiaf pick that takes Darius Morris out, essentially making this a pick-and-roll situation, so Jordan Hill comes out to help — but nobody helps Hill. Look at the spacing in the photo. Turiaf rolls, takes the bounce pass and dunks. Hill had to help or CP3 would have had a layup. Metta World Peace doesn’t move and the other Laker defenders — Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol — have to stick with their men out on the weak side.

The reason the Lakers give up so many points in the paint is often this — they struggle mightily with the roll man in the pick-and-roll. The Lakers perimeter defenders can’t stay in front of the ball handler, the big man helps and everything breaks down. The roll man shoots 57 percent when he gets the ball back against the Lakers, according to Synergy Sports. That’s 28th in the NBA.

There are other issues. The Lakers are 23rd in the NBA in defending isolation according Synergy. Also the “old and slow” Lakers struggle with teams that can push the ball in transition, something the Clippers did well. If your big men can run the floor well — and the Clippers’ bigs can — you can get easy and spectacular shots.

All of this is not simply solved. Howard getting healthy would certainly be a big step in the right direction. But right now Kobe is gambling and roaming again, and exposing the defense when he does. Gasol can look as lost on the defensive end as he does on the offensive end at times. (Although, to the people telling me on twitter Gasol was THE problem, on the season the Lakers give up 104.5 points per 100 when Gasol is on the floor, 110.7 when he sits. He alone not issue.)

On top of it all, is Mike D’Antoni the coach that can fix it? The Lakers weren’t defending for Mike Brown and he had the reputation of a defensive coach. The Lakers seem to be listening to D’Antoni, but that’s different than executing.

You see it is flashes — six minutes here, 8 minutes there. There are moments the Lakers show they can defend. But because of focus and physical limitations it never lasts.

Until it does, it doesn’t really matter what happens with the Lakers offense, they are not going to get near the level they expected before this season.



http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/06/lakers-problems-its-all-about-the-defense/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby Punk-101 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:37 am

Defensive problems...offensive problems...it's all about chemistry and cohesion. There needs to be an excitement and joy to play together and to play FOR each other. Guys aren't happy, and it's not just because they are losing. Playing below expectations magnifies that, but there is a foundational personality rift in the locker room methinks.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby JGC on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:04 am

KBJelleyBean24 wrote:
JGC wrote:
Weezy wrote:
JGC wrote:My other WMC is that now with D12 hating it here, that's going to make a lot of other players hesitate in wanting to come and play here with Kobe.


I highly doubt that, everyone in the league knows what a baby Dwight is. Also, didn't Dwight top a lot of NBA's most hated players lists this offseason, because of his indecision and baby like ways? Players that come here know what they are getting into playing with Kobe, if they want to win they will deal with it, some even flourish with it. Especially those that value winning over having just having "fun", work hard, and aren't so sensitive, but know it's a job and deal with it like grown men.


Yeah, I don't know, it's not like we have the best track record with big name free agents wanting to come here. But this is now the 3rd big name big man where there has been drama. Shaq/Gasol/Dwight. I'm sure there's a fantastic reason for the drama but still, drama. And players can value winning but not want to deal with the drama right? What does it matter anyway, we won't be in a position to sign a free agent for years and years to come.

I don't remember the list exactly, but I remember what you're talking about. Wasn't Gasol one of the most hated? I find that hard to believe. It's probably just some pub looking to get hits.

What are you talking about we don't have anyone under contract after next season


Yeah I guess you're right, we'd only have Nash under contract. I guess in my mind, I must have been thinking Kobe, Dwight and Nash would be here, which if they signed for around their current deals would be close to $60M but that probably won't be the case. I'd expect (err...want) Kobe to re-sign for less rather than extend his current deal.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby Lakeshow24 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:34 am

We should have just kept coach Bickerstaff for peanuts and been done with it. They played better for him.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:12 am

Lakeshow24 wrote:We should have just kept coach Bickerstaff for peanuts and been done with it. They played better for him.


^^ I would have preferred that to D' Antoni. Bernie may not be a championship level coach, but neither is D' Antoni. Of the two with this roster, Bernie sure did a better job. I'm not saying they would have gotten over the hump but at least he was working well with the personnel, playing to their strengths, and they seemed to respond well to him. His substitutions were much better and more rational.

Bernie was the biggest reason I was ok with Mike Brown coming back this season.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby Doc Brown on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:17 am

Keep a guy at head coach, that clearly stated he didn't want to be a head coach.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:25 am

Doc Brown wrote:Keep a guy at head coach, that clearly stated he didn't want to be a head coach.


Or rush a coaching hire when your interim coach was posting a .800 winning record. I would have at least taken more time on the hire. Mike Brown wanted to coach and he did a poor job. Mike D' Antonin wanted to coach and he's done a worse job than Bernie at running his own uptempo offense.

Bernie is what he is, a journeyman coach, but not a bad one. He has plenty of experience and it showed in the way he conducted himself here during that admittedly short sample size.

D' Antoni is proving himself to be an inflexible coach who has had an incredibly hard time adapting his system to personnel.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby Doc Brown on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:33 am

What does Mike Brown and MDA have to do with my post? The subject is Bernie stating he didn't want to be a head coach and why we would keep a guy at a position he had no interest in.....
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:28 pm

Doc Brown wrote:What does Mike Brown and MDA have to do with my post? The subject is Bernie stating he didn't want to be a head coach and why we would keep a guy at a position he had no interest in.....


Well you threw that one out there, Doc, and I don't exactly know what the reference was. When did he say he didn't want to be the head coach of the Lakers, and what was the context? I never saw that he said that, and even if he did we should take everything with a grain of salt, especially with Bernie. He's an off the cuff speaker and can be a very self-effacing guy.

I think he knew damn good and well that the cavalry was coming in terms of a new head coaching hire, and probably at the time he said that. But then again, I don't know the exact context. What's clear from the hiring was that they already had D' Antoni basically picked out either before or right after they canned Brown. I mean, he got fired on Friday and by Sunday they had the paperwork signed for D' Antoni.

So he may have been deflecting in some way when he said that, clarifying to the media that he was just interim coach keeping the seat warm, and making light of the fact that he was kicking butt in the win department.

Bottom line, the FO certainly told him he was just standing in and he did his job. But he's a professional, with TONS of head coaching experience. If they told him he was going to be head coach and ride out the year with a replacement coming afterward, he WOULD have done the job. Or do you think he would have actually stepped down? He was hired as an assistant coach but he had more chops than the guy he was under and it showed when he came up to bat.

The FO should have taken more time rather than jumping on D' Antoni. Even if it took all year, Bernie could have held down the fort. But really they should have just interviewed some other candidates over another week or so to see if someone was better suited for the gig. Sloan and McMillan should have at least been in the running.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby borri on Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:39 pm

I'll go out on a limb......We play average D tonight, we win.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby Chillbongo on Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:21 pm

Saw this in another thread by Doc Brown, but wanted to post it here:

Ramona Shelburne ‏@ramonashelburne
I asked Dwight Howard if the Lakers liked each other. He said, "We have play like we like each other."
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite


Ramona Shelburne ‏@ramonashelburne
Dwight: "Even if we don't want to be friends off the court, when we step in between the lines, we have to respect each other."
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite


Ramona Shelburne ‏@ramonashelburne
Dwight: "It really starts off the court. I think you have to have that relationship and that chemistry off the court."
Expand


Really Dwight? You were doing so well keeping your frustrations internalized. Why now? Why when we need unity? Why when we need you to STEP IT UP AND EXPEND THIS FRUSTRATION ON THE COURT BY DOMINATING?

Go beast out there and then invite your n's over for dinner. Actions speak louder than words.

Am I missing something?
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby Balance&Options24 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:27 pm

On a lighter note,im gonna go in a different direction with our troubles, instead of blaming Kobe shoots too much, our defense, our coach, our management.


I'm going to blame it on the Time Warner Channel. the move there cursed us :\
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby khmrP on Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:29 pm

Balance&Options24 wrote:On a lighter note,im gonna go in a different direction with our troubles, instead of blaming Kobe shoots too much, our defense, our coach, our management.


I'm going to blame it on the Time Warner Channel. the move there cursed us :\


you think the Buss family can afford this team without that TWC deal?
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby trodgers on Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:32 pm

Dwight doesn't have the mentality to get after it. Stop pouting, dude. Go get it. Demand the ball. Dominate on D. Crash the boards.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:56 pm

I agree that Dwight could play a little harder and pout less. But in terms of playing together, having fun, giving effort to help the helper, and moving the ball, Nash is saying it too. Gasol says it 3 or 4 times per year -- shots at Kobe.

Last game, Kobe played exactly the right way -- took a couple of hero shots -- but he was getting his shots in the rhythm of the game and gave Dwight, Gasol, and Ron plenty of opportunities.

Pretty obvious that when Meeks, Gasol, and Ron shoot 6 for 25 the Lakers will lose, no matter how great Kobe, Dwight, and Nash play.

But again we talk about the offense. I agree with other posters, it is the defense. Kobe and Ron not helping and playing smart but for about 6 minutes per game. Them playing harder and kobe not roaming, plus Dwight not taking dumb fouls, will go a long way.

How many games have the Lakers lost that were within 1 or 2 possessions with less than 4 minutes to go?? Many single digit losses. It is about stops, making free throws, and Gasol playing even halfway like a star. Those things can happen, and the Lakers can get this turned around. These are not major things. Perhaps the hardest thing to changes are getting Gasol to be more productive and Meeks hitting again. They are getting closer, in my mind. That said, I would prefer they move Gasol and play this out and see what happens with a few new pieces.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby CaCHooKa Man on Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:35 pm

If they lose again tonight, stick a fork in them
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:36 pm

CaCHooKa Man wrote:If they lose again tonight, stick a fork in them


I've said this multiple times throughout the season already. At some point you just have to stop giving this team chances
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby OCLakersFan247 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:03 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:
CaCHooKa Man wrote:If they lose again tonight, stick a fork in them


I've said this multiple times throughout the season already. At some point you just have to stop giving this team chances


agreed
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Re: WMC 12/13: Its all Kome Iso Faults (15-17)

Postby 432J on Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:03 pm

Lakerjones wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:Keep a guy at head coach, that clearly stated he didn't want to be a head coach.


Or rush a coaching hire when your interim coach was posting a .800 winning record. I would have at least taken more time on the hire. Mike Brown wanted to coach and he did a poor job. Mike D' Antonin wanted to coach and he's done a worse job than Bernie at running his own uptempo offense.

Bernie is what he is, a journeyman coach, but not a bad one. He has plenty of experience and it showed in the way he conducted himself here during that admittedly short sample size.

D' Antoni is proving himself to be an inflexible coach who has had an incredibly hard time adapting his system to personnel.

or just hire the greatest coach of all time who was ready and willing to take the job

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