WMC 12/13: Mercy kill. (0-4)

the defense in the first half was unacceptable...

actually Effense...they didn't show any D.

An open shot is an open shot at the end of the day, if your players cant knock em down then you're just screwed. Same ish happened in 2011, we had the talent but we struggled to score and hit 3s.

JGC wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:

JGC wrote:You mean who other than Kobe should have taken 33 shots?

Is english not your first language?..... real question.

You implied that our overriding reason for defeat last night was 33 shots by Kobe did you not?

All I said was looking at the way the team was playing last night who should have taken the 15 "extra" shots he took? I actually think if he take's 40 we win that game but I'm just basing that on the facts of how we played last night..... I'm sure you have a much more enlightening view....

Technically speaking? English is not my first language. Technically. And that's a real answer.

As for the shot totals, I would say that the 33 shots are more symptomatic of the overriding reason we lost. I think the extra 10-15 extra shots should have gone to other players and especially a good chunk of those to Dwight Howard.

If the justification for Kobe taking 33 shots, is that nobody was making their shots, then why didn't Kobe end up with like 9 shots? He started out the game 0-6. If we're going to go away from things that aren't effective then shouldn't we have gone away from Kobe?

(I'm not advocating we do go away from Kobe in that instance, in fact, I'm advocating we stick with the game plan all the time outside of specific situations like end-of-game, etc).

Not sure if serious......

This is Kobe we're talking about. His ability to go 0 for 6 and still lead a team to a win is unparalleled.

Nash, Howard and MWP should have shot more in your estimation I guess......

KB24 wrote:the defense in the first half was unacceptable...

actually Effense...they didn't show any D.

Which is why we're a horrible road team.

Taking care of the ball and playing consistent D for 48 minutes isn't in our DNA.

We're dependent on making shots to win close games. That's a recipe for disaster if shots aren't falling.

Rooscooter wrote:

JGC wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:

JGC wrote:You mean who other than Kobe should have taken 33 shots?

Is english not your first language?..... real question.

You implied that our overriding reason for defeat last night was 33 shots by Kobe did you not?

All I said was looking at the way the team was playing last night who should have taken the 15 "extra" shots he took? I actually think if he take's 40 we win that game but I'm just basing that on the facts of how we played last night..... I'm sure you have a much more enlightening view....

Technically speaking? English is not my first language. Technically. And that's a real answer.

As for the shot totals, I would say that the 33 shots are more symptomatic of the overriding reason we lost. I think the extra 10-15 extra shots should have gone to other players and especially a good chunk of those to Dwight Howard.

If the justification for Kobe taking 33 shots, is that nobody was making their shots, then why didn't Kobe end up with like 9 shots? He started out the game 0-6. If we're going to go away from things that aren't effective then shouldn't we have gone away from Kobe?

(I'm not advocating we do go away from Kobe in that instance, in fact, I'm advocating we stick with the game plan all the time outside of specific situations like end-of-game, etc).

Not sure if serious......

This is Kobe we're talking about. His ability to go 0 for 6 and still lead a team to a win is unparalleled.

Nash, Howard and MWP should have shot more in your estimation I guess......

Yep. Which is why I said (not sure if you missed this part) that I would NOT advocate going away from Kobe Bryant even if he were 0-6. But I'm also a person that would NOT advocate getting away from the team game if the team was 0-6 to start the game either.

A team's ability to go 0 for 6 and still lead a time to a win is unparalleled, to a degree even greater than the Mamba himself.

As for whether the Nash/MWP/D12 should have had more shots, well, collectively they shot 43% and Bryant 33%. Give them say 13 of Kobe's missed shots, and rounding down that's 5 buckets or at least 10 points. I mean, it's obviously not that simple.

IMO, there's just rarely ever a good reason to get away from the team concept is just my philosophy. The exceptions? When one guy is scorchingly hot, and the other are end-of-game or end-of-clock type situations. Other than that, if there is no particular guy that is on absolute fire, you stick within the team concept, and work through it to get somebody going.

JGC wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:

JGC wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:

JGC wrote:You mean who other than Kobe should have taken 33 shots?

Is english not your first language?..... real question.

You implied that our overriding reason for defeat last night was 33 shots by Kobe did you not?

All I said was looking at the way the team was playing last night who should have taken the 15 "extra" shots he took? I actually think if he take's 40 we win that game but I'm just basing that on the facts of how we played last night..... I'm sure you have a much more enlightening view....

Technically speaking? English is not my first language. Technically. And that's a real answer.

As for the shot totals, I would say that the 33 shots are more symptomatic of the overriding reason we lost. I think the extra 10-15 extra shots should have gone to other players and especially a good chunk of those to Dwight Howard.

If the justification for Kobe taking 33 shots, is that nobody was making their shots, then why didn't Kobe end up with like 9 shots? He started out the game 0-6. If we're going to go away from things that aren't effective then shouldn't we have gone away from Kobe?

(I'm not advocating we do go away from Kobe in that instance, in fact, I'm advocating we stick with the game plan all the time outside of specific situations like end-of-game, etc).

Not sure if serious......

This is Kobe we're talking about. His ability to go 0 for 6 and still lead a team to a win is unparalleled.

Nash, Howard and MWP should have shot more in your estimation I guess......

Yep. Which is why I said (not sure if you missed this part) that I would NOT advocate going away from Kobe Bryant even if he were 0-6. But I'm also a person that would NOT advocate getting away from the team game if the team was 0-6 to start the game either.

A team's ability to go 0 for 6 and still lead a time to a win is unparalleled, to a degree even greater than the Mamba himself.

As for whether the Nash/MWP/D12 should have had more shots, well, collectively they shot 43% and Bryant 33%. Give them say 13 of Kobe's missed shots, and rounding down that's 5 buckets or at least 10 points. I mean, it's obviously not that simple.

IMO, there's just rarely ever a good reason to get away from the team concept is just my philosophy. The exceptions? When one guy is scorchingly hot, and the other are end-of-game or end-of-clock type situations. Other than that, if there is no particular guy that is on absolute fire, you stick within the team concept, and work through it to get somebody going.

Must have been a tough last 15 years as a Laker fan then. We've been basically a role player support structure for Kobe since Shaq was traded and before that it was the 1-2 punch. In fact we haven't been a balanced scoring attack since the "Lakeshow" days.

Interesting fact here..... we won 5 championships SINCE the last time we had a balanced scoring attack.

You have a guy like Kobe and think that he's magically going to become a prime Grant Hill type of player.... not in the DNA. You take the good with the bad. Fortunately for us the good is about 90% and the bad 10%.

Rooscooter wrote:Must have been a tough last 15 years as a Laker fan then. We've been basically a role player support structure for Kobe since Shaq was traded and before that it was the 1-2 punch. In fact we haven't been a balanced scoring attack since the "Lakeshow" days.

Interesting fact here..... we won 5 championships SINCE the last time we had a balanced scoring attack.

You have a guy like Kobe and think that he's magically going to become a prime Grant Hill type of player.... not in the DNA. You take the good with the bad. Fortunately for us the good is about 90% and the bad 10%.

Agree for the most part (except that it's been a tough 15 years). It's not that I need to have 6 players in double figures every game in order to be happy, although that would make me happy. I just want to see the team stay with the game plan whether the shots are falling or not. Stick together.

And so I don't think it's very good when one player takes 33 shots. It's even worse when he only makes 11 of them. FWIW, I'm not saying Kobe hogged the ball just to get his and did it 33 times. Some of it is him trying to get hot after starting cold. Some of it is him not trusting his teammates because they weren't getting it done for consecutive possessions.

I do agree that the vast majority of the time we get the good. But this game against the Hawks wasn't one of them. IMO.

It's possible we go back to that balanced attack after the Kobe era assuming he retires after next season. If we strike out on any of the top players we want in FA or trade, we'll be building around Dwight trying to add shooters at every position like Orlando did. Could end up with Dwight + Nash in his final season + role players with no true 2nd option. We can win with that formula if they build it right.. In Mitch we trust.

Kobe shoots too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

puffyusaf#2 wrote:Kobe shots too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry....had to fix the typos

So, if Meeks starts tonight, we have a potential starting lineup of Nash, Meeks, Metta, Clark, & Howard. That's not too bad. If Metta & Clark can hit their 3's, we can probably space the floor for Dwight to work against Hibbert. Jamison needs to have a solid game. We'll see how it works out...

puffyusaf#2 wrote:Kobe shoots too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I know you are being sarcastic....and Kobe has toned his shots down. Right now he doesn't shoot too much.

BUT...he has become a ball stopper. Too often he eats 5 seconds off the clock before making a decision. He really needs to move the ball faster and reduce the TOs while he is at it. Leading the NBA in TOs is kind of embarassing.

not to be that guy but...wmc: the "to" in the title of the thread should have two o's

Showtime.Revival.05 wrote:not to be that guy but...wmc: the "to" in the title of the thread should have two o's

or too o's?

Haha, I kid. I noticed it too LOL but I'm glad you said it

I thought having Nash, Meeks and an improved Metta would help our spacing.... but it's still been a problem..

I just don't get it.

davriver290 wrote:I thought having Nash, Meeks and an improved Metta would help our spacing.... but it's still been a problem..

I just don't get it.

The problem is Metta. Hes getting wide open looks, he just clanks them.

Just imagine, you replace Metta with Korver. This might be the best offensive team ever.

^ And worst defensive team.

Replace Metta with any of the 3-4 SFs Denver is currently hoarding and we'd have a great unit there. Still alright defensively, but much, much, much smoother offensively.

^In that last 5 games, Metta is shooting 26.7% percent from the 3-point line. In limited minutes(less than what he was getting 2-3 weeks ago), Clark is shooting 23.1% from the 3-point line in the last 5 games. Jamison is at 16.7% in the last 5 games. Blake is at 25 % from three the last 5 games.

On the contrary, Meeks is at 37.5% from 3-point line the last 5 games; Nash is at 46.2% percent for the last 5 games. Kobe is at 37.1%. So within the last 5 games, most of our rotation can't shoot effectively. How is Dwight Howard going to get the spacing he needs to operate even with Kobe out if you can't effectively space the floor? This might be a problem tonight and going forward with Kobe being sidelined if we're trying to play through Dwight or Nash is creating for somebody who can't shoot well consistently.

And yet, we keep launching the 3-ball; This stretch without Kobe is going to be interesting....

Meanwhile:
Wilson Chandler: 42.7%
Danilo Gallinari: 37.5%
Andre Iguodala: 31.6%
Corey Brewer: 29.6%

Iggy and Brewer aren't doing amazing, but Chandler is coming off the bench for goodness' sake.

dwighthowardsdad wrote:^In that last 5 games, Metta is shoot 26.7% percent from the 3-point line. In limited minutes, Clark is shooting 23.1% from the 3-point line in the last 5 games. Jamison is at 16.7% in the last 5 games. Blake is at 25 % from three the last 5 games.

So we must be due to make some 3's tonight!

dwighthowardsdad wrote:And yet, we keep launching the 3-ball; This stretch without Kobe is going to be interesting....

Pringles anyone?

Chillbongo wrote:

dwighthowardsdad wrote:^In that last 5 games, Metta is shoot 26.7% percent from the 3-point line. In limited minutes, Clark is shooting 23.1% from the 3-point line in the last 5 games. Jamison is at 16.7% in the last 5 games. Blake is at 25 % from three the last 5 games.

So we must be due to make some 3's tonight!

dwighthowardsdad wrote:And yet, we keep launching the 3-ball; This stretch without Kobe is going to be interesting....

Pringles anyone?

LOL at the Pringles comment! We need to hit our 3's tonight. Indiana is a great defensive team. They will pack the paint; so you have to make them pay for that by hitting outside shots. If we do that, Dwight can effectively work down-low. This will give us a decent shot at winning this game.

I don't understand why we never went after Wilson Chandler when he was available... He wasn't commanding super-star money, I'm sure full MLE would've sufficed.... What's his pay with the Nugs?

KB24 wrote:

puffyusaf#2 wrote:Kobe shoots too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I know you are being sarcastic....and Kobe has toned his shots down. Right now he doesn't shoot too much.

BUT...he has become a ball stopper. Too often he eats 5 seconds off the clock before making a decision. He really needs to move the ball faster and reduce the TOs while he is at it. Leading the NBA in TOs is kind of embarassing.

I actually agree (at times). No ball movement is still, in my opinion, a sign of no movement off the ball. There are time s he is doing to much solo but I haven't thought he has been hurting the team.