WMC 12/13: Mercy kill. (0-4)

Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby noobiew on Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:34 pm

At least not a blowout tonight, we're getting there, next game we will win with Dwight back, it's guarantee
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:37 pm

- Floor balance is terrible
- Pau and MWP seriously need to stop hesitating to shoot the ball
- I hope Jamison shoulder will be ok

Even if he's in great shape and had two good games , MWP is a poor fit next to Nash , can't run the floor/takes forever to shoot wide open looks Nash creates for him...

Ebanks was a great plus though ... he's playing with more confidence ...
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Snakell Beast on Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:38 pm

Lakerjones wrote:At least they didn't lose by 35. Blake has just been abysmal.


But the problem is, the starters were being beaten by 6-10 points the whole game. Only when the Kings took some starters out in the 4th quarter, and Ebanks played the game of his life [to date], did we get it back to a closer margin...AND STILL LOSE!!! :mad1: :man2: :bang: :man5: :man3:

DJO didn't get any run AGAIN tonight...with Blake/Goudelock/Morris/Duhon not impressing, what the mcgillicutty are the Lakers thinking not giving our only other SIGNED back-up PG prospect a shot to prove himself?????

0-5 now, (Cue comic book guy) WORST START EVER! I know it's PRE-Season, but we've NEVER started pre-season 0-5...I am really really nervous right now :nono2:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Tobias Funke on Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:51 pm

No reason for anyone to have even an ounce of worry in their system over these worthless games.

The vets dont give a crap about the pre-season games, Jamison even said as much, saying that only the younger guys even care about playing these games.

Even if they were really into it and still getting beat, we still have Dwight Howard set to return to the lineup. That changes things (much, much more than some people may realize), and even more so when our backup 5 is out as well and we have to look to a rookie center who was one pick away from being undrafted to fill in (although IMO he'll wind up playing in the NBA longer than alot of the guys who were drafted before him).

I hate losing as much as anyone, but I'll wait until we start to play meaningful games before I worry.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Finwë on Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:52 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:I gotta say, Nash is looking done. :freak2: He's turning the ball over, getting beat to the basket on defense and missing the momentum shots. :man6: I'm not impressed right now. NO ONE can shoot the ball. We are LUCKY to be down by only 4...EVEN to a young, undertalented non-playoff team like the Kings...Frustrating and ominous. :mad1:

Dwight isn't a cure-all. He won't make Nash or Pau more athletic, Kobe more efficient, or our bench any less putrid at this point... :man2: Pau is looking good...if he was a volume shooting SG...he's shooting like 40% from the field. :bang: Metta is back to chucking it and making it 1/4 of the time :disagree: , and I am going to say right now that Jamison looks like a bust as a free agent pick up. :man5:

3.5 Pre-Season games left, and I am really starting to worry BIG TIME. Our offense has no flow, and Nash looks to be a poor fit for it. We can't get ANY transition game going, we can't hit any perimeter shots, we can't get ANY shots in the paint against a set defense...I am seriously concerned... :man3:

No offense Snakell Beast but I think you are really overreacting.

Nash looked IN NO WAY done to me. The only knock I have with his play isn't his fault: the fact that he's playing off the ball too much, and running too few P&R IMO. I'm positive that's gonna change when the stakes are higher and when Howard is playing.

MWP has shot the ball well from 3 this preseason. So has Kobe. Meeks had 4 3s last game. Ebanks hit 4 this game. Goudelock can always hit shots, and so can Nash. Jamison's J is starting to get better with rythm. Gasol is the only one who has been shooting uncharacteristically bad.

We lost to the kings (and to the other teams) because:
-guys are evidently not trying as hard as they can (especially Pau)
-we are missing KEY players
-our guys are still working on picking up the system
-chemistry doesn't just happen overnight
-Brown's rotations have been INCREDIBLY inconsistent.. He's just trying guys out there, seemingly following no criteria whatsover.
-We've been playing lineups that won't EVER see the floor unless it's garbage time -> lineups that consist on 5 bench players, some of them awful players that are unquestionably getting cut but had to get a chance to show what they could do.
-Sacre is playing the Howard role, not just rotation-wise but also offensive system-wise.
-Key guys like Kobe and Nash aren't doing all they can to win, rather they are calmly running the offense and seeing what they can get from it, like practice. If it were different, Kobe would ask for the ball A LOT more, Nash would run more P&R (with Pau, not Sacre btw), and they wouldn't be taking s*** from guys, they'd ask Pau for example to play harder, which he would do.

Most of your points were a reaction to what you were seeing in the first half, and many of it changed as the game progressed ->Gasol hit more shots, so did Nash, Kobe WAS efficient, and our bench looked much better (Jamison hit some Js, Ebanks was GREAT..)

I really think you are panicking. Once we get all of our guys back (Howard and Hill), me make the necessary cuts and solidify the rotations, the guys get more and more accustomed to the system, and everyone starts taking games seriously and playing with real effort the Ws will come. I'm sure of it.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby therealdeal on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:11 pm

^ Like is often the case I agree completely with everything Finwe just posted.

It's pretty clear that the Lakers are going through the motions; both physically and mentally. I think we've seen Kobe only get serious once in the 3rd quarter in the 4th game. Nash has looked VERY good. The only problem is trying to figure out where guys are going and where they want to be. Obviously that's going to take time, which is why it's so important to start shortening the rotations and getting Howard back in the fold.

My WMC: effort.

Pau is clearly not trying his hardest. I mean, this is the 2nd time in the pre-season I've seen the ball slip from his hand on the way up to the basket. I don't think I'd need two hands to count the number of times I've seen that from him the rest of his career as a Laker. He's not trying very hard right now and I don't like it. I like that he's been in the post more often for sure and his post game looks good. But he's been pretty lazy defensively and he's been lazy with the ball.

Other WMC: not enough CDR or DJO out there.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Weezy on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:21 pm

I agree, the starters are hardly trying their best. Nash looks like he's taking it easy out there and he should its preseason, Kobe is cruising, Pau is napping. The bench we will actually have has barely played together, they're still learning how to, an tonight they looked a lot better. We have a new offense and a lot of new players this season, it going to take longer than a few preseason games and crazy inconsistent bench lineups for this team to gel. There are some shooting and athleticism concerns, yes, but anyone panicking right now is doing it wayyyy too early. Dwight won't fix everything either, but he is a very huge piece of the team, might even end up being our best player this season or at least 1.b, he will help a lot on defense for sure.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby dj vitus on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:22 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:Dwight isn't a cure-all. He won't make Nash or Pau more athletic, Kobe more efficient, or our bench any less putrid at this point... :man2:

Just imagine Andrew Bynum down low. Except more agile and motivated. Now we should all feel a bit better.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby dj vitus on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:27 pm

My WMC is that our transition defense has been the worst I've ever seen from any team, ever.

I know for sure that opposing coaches are drilling their teams to take advantage of this weakness. Utah ran it relentlessly, and now Sacramento. And yet, no one wants to come back on D, resulting in very easy baskets for the other team.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Snakell Beast on Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:27 am

To be clear to everyone, I am NOT predicting anything bad, I am just slightly exaggerating the negative because the team is as yet unproven (as currently constructed) and these long, ugly stretches are just worrying me.

In the second half, there were things that started happening that led me to feel some relief in my gut, and I genuinely saw some chemistry START to occur...I'm mostly just getting this out there so we can all kind of deal with the frustration, and to vent my irritation with the fact that so many douchebags are so happy trolling when the Lakers lose like this, and I hate seeing HATERS get what they want and feel empowered to make their ignorant arguments...

I don't necessarily need to be talked off the ledge, I have been a Lakers fan since 1996, but I guess I am just dealing with the reality that just because we have MUCH more talent top to bottom than the last few years (AND WE DO) it doesn't mean we can't still implode or struggle....because we are spending a TON of money on our roster this year...

I can't wait for the game where Howard plays...I want to see us get some MOJO on.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Snakell Beast on Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:27 am

See, I'm so jittery I double posted. I love the Lakers and I have tons of team pride, I just want to make sure we make a great case to keep Howard after the season...THAT most of all.

...Well, and I really want to see Steve Nash ride off into the sunset with a ring or two on his fingers.
The End is nigh. Time for a total Cut and Shuffle. Kobe contract was a mistake...time to avoid making more. The future is here, whether we want it to be or not. An era is over, but for the death rattle, and it's time for the cycle to begin anew. Growth and change are scary and painful, but alas...nothing worth achieving comes easily.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Finwë on Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:03 am

^^ No problem, I think we've all been there, I'm just saving it 'till the regular season starts, then maybe you'll be calming me down :man10:

As simple as it may sound, IMO we should really just wait and see on this one. We've made the right moves, and in many ways it's really just a matter of time. If things are really looking bad I'm sure the FO will be the first to start considering alternatives, be it coaching staff-wise or roster changes. They've invested way too much to risk the prize slipping away over certain adjustable things.
I know for now I'm not worried, every time Brown makes a stupid substitution or one of our bench players turns the ball over I just think about our starting unit and know that they aren't letting this not working out, or about that Mitch .gif and knowing he ain't either.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby denimPortugal on Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:49 am

WTH???!!0-5? Nice!!! :mad1:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby cthroatgtr on Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:21 am

The longer a player is in the league, the less they care about preseason. We need the main guys to get through preseason without injury, let us not forget Kobe's wrist injury last year. Kobe got serious one quarter and dropped 23. The fact that MWP is in shape is more important than how he plays. It is actually more important that Ebanks & Meeks show something. Ebanks was good last preseason then Brown decided to start him over MWP & Barnes which I think put too much pressure on him. He belongs off the bench for now. Jamison is also a vet so he will just look to work up a sweat and not get hurt. Besides the team is still carrying guys that have no shot of making the team.

Only complaint is I had hoped to see DJO more. Either he struggled in camp or they are hiding him. Not sure which yet. I guess we'll know more when the cuts happen.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby raviator on Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:23 am

cthroatgtr wrote:Only complaint is I had hoped to see DJO more. Either he struggled in camp or they are hiding him. Not sure which yet. I guess we'll know more when the cuts happen.


This. From I BRIEFLY saw of him I was kind of impressed. Hoping we might some of him next game or two, provided he doesn't get cut. Also, I'm hoping nothing is wrong with Pau 'cause the way he was NOT jumping or exploding when going up for shots around the basket as Stu was pointing out is kind of worrisome. I dunno maybe it's just fatigue or he's saving energy for when it really counts.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:24 am

My take so far......

Starters outside of Kobe seem to be coasting to the season. Pau is more passive than ever.... and that's an accomplishment based on recent performance. Nash has looked O.K. compared to his standards.... he's looked like Magic Johnson compared to our recent standards.... :man10: Honestly he doesn't look comfortable yet. MWP is showing effort and looks like he's in shape at least this year.

The bench is troubling however. These guys are playing for their positions and a lot of them for their existence in the NBA and they are looking like huge piles of do-do in the process. If we face reality there are only 3 or 4 guys on the bench (not counting Hill because he's injured) that belong in the NBA and even they aren't looking good. Jamison hasn't looked particularly great. Duhon and Blake aren't showing anyone that they are tradable commodities and Ebanks has had one good/great stretch in pre-season so far. I'm not encouraged by that group because they DO have something to play for in the pre-season..... and I actually don't think they look as good as last years bench at this same point.... which is scary.....
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby therealdeal on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:41 am

Snakell- No worries man, that's what this thread is for: whining, moaning, and complaining. :man12:

There's not a ton to WMC about though in the pre-season. I thought it over last night and here's the only things I'm starting to get frustrated with:
- Howard not playing yet. I understand it, but I'm just anxious to get this starting five together.
- The fact that 6 games into the pre-season we still seem to have ALL of our fodder. It's time to cut those idiots already and get our real starters and bench players going.
- The lackadaisical attitude exhibited by the team in general regarding the pre-season. I understand it's pre-season, but sometimes I'd like to see this team get really serious. The times that they've seemed to focus they look great.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Snakell Beast on Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:18 pm

Rooscooter wrote:I'm not encouraged by that group because they DO have something to play for in the pre-season..... and I actually don't think they look as good as last years bench at this same point.... which is scary.....


Yeah, that is the main thrust of my concern...although, if Ebanks can give us HALF of what he had last night on a game to game basis, our bench looks a LOT better once Jordan Hill accompanies Robert Sacre in the front court reserves. Then we can swap out Ebanks/Kobe/Jamison at the 2/3 and take the scoring/playmaking responsibility away from our weak (to put it mildly at this point) back up PGs.

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The End is nigh. Time for a total Cut and Shuffle. Kobe contract was a mistake...time to avoid making more. The future is here, whether we want it to be or not. An era is over, but for the death rattle, and it's time for the cycle to begin anew. Growth and change are scary and painful, but alas...nothing worth achieving comes easily.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Weezy on Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:21 pm

I don't have NBA TV either, costs to much to add the package it's included in on U-Verse. :bang:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby The Rock on Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:25 pm

backup PG spot is a huge concern.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:41 pm

They'd be better off just putting another scorer at the point and running the Princeton with the second unit. Just get it over halfcourt and let the offense facilitate for people with constant passing and ball movement.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby The Rock on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:27 pm

Doc Brown wrote:They'd be better off just putting another scorer at the point and running the Princeton with the second unit. Just get it over halfcourt and let the offense facilitate for people with constant passing and ball movement.


this is what I was thinking

Yesterday Glock was the 1st PG off the bench. 7 minutes. 4 points, 2 FT attempts, 50% FG, 1 assist. For a game that would be 8 points, 2 assists, isn't that acceptable production out of the PG spot? Morris, Duhon, Blake, Morris have never come close to that kind of production in LA when given short minutes and Glock did this while playing alongside CDR, Jamison and Sacre
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby therealdeal on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:37 pm

Goudelock looked awful last night as the PG... And according to Yahoo sports he didn't have a single assist.

Blake looked much better and that's a little scary.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby The Rock on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:40 pm

therealdeal wrote:Goudelock looked awful last night as the PG... And according to Yahoo sports he didn't have a single assist.

Blake looked much better and that's a little scary.


Hmm thats weird but in any case at least 4 points is more than what Blake could do lol Blake has played 14 mins/gm this preseason. He had one game of 4 assists (when Kobe went off in that 3rd Q) other than that 2 assists or less in every game. Hes getting big minutes next to starters and he isn't producing at an adequate manner...at least Glock is giving us something and hes playing mostly alongside the bench guys.

Morris and Blake, both shooting 21% for the preseason and haven't made a single 3 so far
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Re: WMC 12/13: Preseason Time!

Postby therealdeal on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:54 pm

I still trust Blake far more than I trust Goudelock. This was the first game where he was given any sort of responsibility and he failed that responsibility of making the offense run. He can score well and that's fine, but we tried that last season and it didn't work particularly well.

Obviously Blake isn't ideal either, but I just simply don't trust Goudelock to run an offense.
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