WMC 12/13: Mercy kill. (0-4)

Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby Nikez on Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:58 pm

JGC wrote:The bottom line is sure, complain about the officiating, there were moments where it was bad. People can complain about Kobe going hero ball even though it only really happened it short spurts. Or, we can bag on a single substitution or two and whine about substitution patterns. But in the end, if it didn't have an impact on the outcome of the game, then what's the point? It's not like it was so egregious that it prevented us from being able to compete. Plus, it was a Denver home game, and they were more aggressive from the tip (so no trying to say they were aggressive because the refs didn't allow us to defend).

Truth. There will be more complaints from fans if they have an ugly win than a well-played hardfought loss in the end you do what you can to get the win which is what Nash was saying the other day and that they will basically 'learn' as they fight for every win and get better.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby kenshi1023 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:51 am

Bad coaching!!! Offense looks like crap when nash is on the bench. Bring showtime back you said, well jb hope your directv package includes the showtime channels because twc 691 doesnt. Seriously wtf, the damn clappers floppers paperclips are number 1 and we are struggling to be .500. And ef you stern, hope the door slaps you on the way out, you piece of dog poop commie. Damn global warming, why is it so cold and wet outside?
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:31 am

Finwë wrote:Effort on the defensive end. From the start just gave Denver whatever they wanted and then some. Slow or inexistant rotations, no rebounding, not going after 50/50 balls, dumb fouls, just TERRIBLE defensive outing. Maybe the worst of the year, and that's saying something.

JGC, Roos, I agree that the refs didn't COST US the game, but they definitely were bad from the start, and they definitely hurt us. Do we win with fair officiating? I don't think so, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't complain about obviously bad officiating.
I thought it was bad all around, Denver got some bad calls too against them, but it definitely felt like it hurt us the most.


^^ Good post. Have to agree about the refs - they may not have cost us the game, but their terrible officiating definitely handicapped us in a big way. I was astonished at some of those no calls. Kobe going down in a heap on multiple occasions, Pau getting hacked, even Meeks getting hammered. It was ridiculous.

Nonetheless we were still in the game, but we just our butts handed to us with the lack of D especially at the end of the third and then the crucial fourth quarter. We had the lead down to 4 but then we just blew it.

Defense is important. Mike Antoni doesn't seem to emphasize it much.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby Finwë on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:38 am

Lakerjones wrote:
Finwë wrote:Effort on the defensive end. From the start just gave Denver whatever they wanted and then some. Slow or inexistant rotations, no rebounding, not going after 50/50 balls, dumb fouls, just TERRIBLE defensive outing. Maybe the worst of the year, and that's saying something.

JGC, Roos, I agree that the refs didn't COST US the game, but they definitely were bad from the start, and they definitely hurt us. Do we win with fair officiating? I don't think so, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't complain about obviously bad officiating.
I thought it was bad all around, Denver got some bad calls too against them, but it definitely felt like it hurt us the most.


^^ Good post. Have to agree about the refs - they may not have cost us the game, but their terrible officiating definitely handicapped us in a big way. I was astonished at some of those no calls. Kobe going down in a heap on multiple occasions, Pau getting hacked, even Meeks getting hammered. It was ridiculous.

Nonetheless we were still in the game, but we just our butts handed to us with the lack of D especially at the end of the third and then the crucial fourth quarter. We had the lead down to 4 but then we just blew it.

Defense is important. Mike Antoni doesn't seem to emphasize it much.

Agreed. I thought we played well enough on offense to win with ease, but our D was probably the worst all year. 127 defensive efficiency says it all.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:41 am

^^ Agreed. Tired legs and lack of team defensive concept really destroyed us down the stretch especially. No Dwight didn't exactly help either.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby Finwë on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:44 am

The Rock wrote:Mark this one up to getting screwed by the refs

- 4 times Kobe attacked the basket and didn't get a foul call. You dont think Faried getting 3 fouls on him wouldn't make a difference? The dude outrebounded our PF 15-6. Kobe got hit in the face at the halftime buzzer mind you
- Howard got mugged 3 times inside
- Pau got pushed when Nash found him in the P & R roll for a layup (Faried got away with a foul)
- Gallinari got away with an up and under travel
- McGee got away with a travel on that play where Nash and Howard argued (its the same call that Howard was called for travel yesterday)
- Meeks attacked the basket hard on a drive and got mugged and pushed down by Brewer. No call

We would've won this game if it weren't for refs. It was quite demoralizing to watch this team try its hardest for 3 quarters and after Howard got ejected they just didnt exert more on Defense. Just frustration from lack of calls from 1st 3 Qs carried over to the 4th

We fought till the end, Kobe and Nash still have it. Metta and Pau battled till the end and Im very proud of it

considering its a back to back in Denver where teams rarely win we put in a winning effort in my opinion and got screwed.

I disagree. Officiating was terrible but to say "team try its hardest for 3 quarters and after Howard got ejected they just didnt exert more on Defense." makes it seem like you weren't watching. Don't mean to be agressive but c'mon now, we played TERRIBLE defense ALL game long. We gave up NINE offensive rebounds in the FIRST quarter, and that was with Howard.
This was probably our worst game defensively and it's a shame because I thought we played well on the other end, well enough to win confortably. I wasn't counting on a total no-show on the defensive end.
I get it, guys are tired, back-to-back, altitude, heavy minutes, old players... STILL I find this level of effort inexcusable.
Kobe said the team played "old", I thought the team played "old" but also lazy, desinterested, uninspired on D.

I think things will improve, I see us winning several games, but we need to really play with a higher sense of urgency in terms of effort and intensity.
A part of it is health and rest, a part of it is D'Antoni's playing time management, a part of it is schedule, but a big part of it is also intense vs lazy mentality. Urgency vs passivess
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby Finwë on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:46 am

Lakerjones wrote:^^ Agreed. Tired legs and lack of team defensive concept really destroyed us down the stretch especially. No Dwight didn't exactly help either.

I agree but regarding Howard I don't know if we missed him that much really.. He wasn't playing with any energy at all, wasn't really helping, or boxing out, or contesting shots.. Offensively he was decent.
Of course I'd rather have him on the floor, but on nights like this I'm not sure his presence will really help much.
D'Antoni said so too, they asked him if the team missed him much and he basically said no. I guess he wasn't impressed with him either.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:49 am

^^ It was a low energy game from Dwight for sure. He played pretty poorly for his standards, no doubt. Still, it's nice to have more of an anchor down there than what we had without him. Just saying.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby escobar8 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:55 am

what happened...i fall a sleep at half time...
we were neck to neck...i saw we got outrebounded badly and that lawson penetration and passing out for dunks were killing us...but why we collapsed in second half...
and how did they let brewer to score almost 30p on us...???
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby borri on Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:06 am

Lakers version of help defense:


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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby abeer3 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:27 am

^lol. exactly.

i think having a more athletic starting pf would do wonders for the d. a thaddeus young type, maybe?
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby escobar8 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:49 am

^^
maybe someone like josh smith...
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby John3:16 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:58 am

One play in particular stood out to me last night. Kobe goes in, gets hit by 2 defenders, is on the ground. no call. Denver goes flying down the court and Nash barely touched Lawson (if he touched him at all) and it's a foul. How in the world was that more of a foul then what happened to Kobe on the other end?
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby DarthRekal on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:45 am

was there at the game... sure refs were HORRIBLE.. and i MEAN HORRIBLE... but we didnt help any... Antoni.. sucks BALLS.. stupid rotations and left subs in way toooo long.. and Duhon WTF... GTFO...

suck arse coach.. suck arse backup pg.. and no hustle... is what really lost.. pau is p**sing me off with his laziness :mad1:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby lakerfan2 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:30 am

we haven't been above .500 all season. wtf.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:03 am

Our defense and offense to a certain extent is the problem not the refs..... Denver shouldn't even be IN a game with this squad if we were playing defense with the same effort as offense....it's that simple. This isn't the same Denver team as last year.... they have taken a pretty big step back IMO and losing to them shouldn't happen.

There were a few bad no calls but the ones saying that it cost us the game are looking for excuses IMO.

Offensively we are only giving Howard touches in lob situations it seems and overall his touches are dwindling from game to game... (sound familiar?). We have Pau running around above the top of the circle being an initiator and shooting 3's.... we have guys like Morris playing and guys like Jamison not....

I could run a pick and roll with the old lady next door and get to the rim uncontested against us right now.... it's that bad out there. Our new center is getting fed up with it now and his frustration is boiling over..... how many of these types of games does it take to light a fire under the rest of the team?....
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby wcsoldier81 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:04 am

lakerfan2 wrote:we haven't been above .500 all season. wtf.


6-5 :jam2:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby scissors on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:08 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:
lakerfan2 wrote:we haven't been above .500 all season. wtf.


6-5 :jam2:

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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby The Rock on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:18 am

Finwë wrote:I disagree. Officiating was terrible but to say "team try its hardest for 3 quarters and after Howard got ejected they just didnt exert more on Defense." makes it seem like you weren't watching. Don't mean to be agressive but c'mon now, we played TERRIBLE defense ALL game long. We gave up NINE offensive rebounds in the FIRST quarter, and that was with Howard.
This was probably our worst game defensively and it's a shame because I thought we played well on the other end, well enough to win confortably. I wasn't counting on a total no-show on the defensive end.
I get it, guys are tired, back-to-back, altitude, heavy minutes, old players... STILL I find this level of effort inexcusable.
Kobe said the team played "old", I thought the team played "old" but also lazy, desinterested, uninspired on D.

I think things will improve, I see us winning several games, but we need to really play with a higher sense of urgency in terms of effort and intensity.
A part of it is health and rest, a part of it is D'Antoni's playing time management, a part of it is schedule, but a big part of it is also intense vs lazy mentality. Urgency vs passivess



what game were you watching? Kobe got hit in the face and fell down. Doesnt that warrant a flagrant? Faried got away with at least 4 fouls like I mentioned and taking him out of the game wouldn't make a difference? HE grabbed 9 offensive rebounds, wouldn't that make a difference for us?


Come on


NObody should be upset with how our guys played last night, we weren't perfect, our defense wasn't crisp and our rebounding effort could've been better but when our guys are aggressively attacking the rim like Howard, Meeks, pau and Kobe were we werent getting any calls why they were getting touch fouls called on us on the other end

In one inbounds sequence Dwight got mugged by Koufous and he got shoved out of the way even Stu was hollering for a foul.

Im sorry we got screwed last night, we did enough to win that game. I have zero doubts about it

I was watching it with CL member JanineGarcia last night as well and both of us were looking at each other going WTF is this refereeing
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby LakerFanIam on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:23 am

C'mon.. Please stop blaming the refs... We're an older, less athletic team, playing a back to back in the altitude of Denver the day after Christmas... We simply didn't have the energy or effort.

There were definitely some questionable calls, but the quicker, more aggressive team always gets the benefit of the refs in this league.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby The Rock on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:37 am

LakerFanIam wrote:C'mon.. Please stop blaming the refs... We're an older, less athletic team, playing a back to back in the altitude of Denver the day after Christmas... We simply didn't have the energy or effort.

There were definitely some questionable calls, but the quicker, more aggressive team always gets the benefit of the refs in this league.


so why wasn't Kobe, Pau and Howard getting the fouls when they attempted aggressive shots in the paint area? Care to explain?
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby JGC on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:41 am

LakerFanIam wrote:C'mon.. Please stop blaming the refs... We're an older, less athletic team, playing a back to back in the altitude of Denver the day after Christmas... We simply didn't have the energy or effort.

There were definitely some questionable calls, but the quicker, more aggressive team always gets the benefit of the refs in this league.


This. The blame the officiating game is so tiresome.

Yes, there were some bad calls but Denver was the aggressor from the get go before there was any officiating at all.

I do find it interesting that different people can watch the same game and see two different things. Sometimes, the observational method is just too unreliable and inconsistent. Who knows, maybe if a guy is watching a Laker game with a girl he'll just nod and agree with whatever she says doesn't mean it actually happened.

Not saying it wasn't bad ... but to blame it solely on the officiating basically means we don't need to do anything different, just keep doing the same thing because it was just the officials fault. I think that is totally wrong. We did a LOT of things wrong and the bad officiating was just an irritant and that is it.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby easyguy on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:43 am

The Rock wrote:
LakerFanIam wrote:C'mon.. Please stop blaming the refs... We're an older, less athletic team, playing a back to back in the altitude of Denver the day after Christmas... We simply didn't have the energy or effort.

There were definitely some questionable calls, but the quicker, more aggressive team always gets the benefit of the refs in this league.


so why wasn't Kobe, Pau and Howard getting the fouls when they attempted aggressive shots in the paint area? Care to explain?



I agreed, they were fouled. This game could have been a victory for us if we put in any sort of effort at all on defense. We looked tired since the tip off. No energy, no movement, no help defense. I cannot wait until we beat the Nuggets to death the next time we play them. There is no excuse not blowing this team out of the water.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby JGC on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:46 am

The Rock wrote:
LakerFanIam wrote:C'mon.. Please stop blaming the refs... We're an older, less athletic team, playing a back to back in the altitude of Denver the day after Christmas... We simply didn't have the energy or effort.

There were definitely some questionable calls, but the quicker, more aggressive team always gets the benefit of the refs in this league.


so why wasn't Kobe, Pau and Howard getting the fouls when they attempted aggressive shots in the paint area? Care to explain?


Kobe got 11 FTs. The most any Denver player got was 6. Kobe got nearly double any single Denver player.

Dwight had 9 FTs despite only playing like 27 mins. Again, that's 50% more than any other single Denver player.

No one is saying it was great officiating. Just saying that had we done things within our control and done those things the right way, we would have won. Better officiating would not have given us a win however.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Raped. Plain. And. Simple. (14-15)

Postby Forklift on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:36 am

I agree our defense was so bad that game. Leaving guys open in the 3 point line and giving them a ton of put backs which could have been easy rebounds if every helped in boxing out. You leave a team open at the 3 point line long enough. Even if it is the worst 3 point shooting team they are going to start hitting those 3s. I mean i remember the 1st and 2nd quarter they were missing, but they kept shooting because they were open and then by the 3rd and 4th they were hitting everything.
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