WMC 12/13: Mercy kill. (0-4)

Re: WMC 12/13: Missed free throws, no Trans D = no .500 (28-30)

Postby JGC on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:50 pm

Finwë wrote:My take on this issue:
I would agree with Puffy in saying injuries have been our biggest problem, however, I wouldn't say that if we'd been healthy all season long we'd be an elite team. I think we'd definitely be in the playoffs, but I don't think we'd be higher than 5th or 4th.
Like Rooscooter and others, I do see some flaws in the roster.
We lack depth, and our role players we rely on are VERY inconsistent (MWP, Jamison, Meeks, Clark, Blake). We don't have many players who can effectively score 1 on 1 / dribble penetrate / create their own shot.
For each of our 4 potential HOF players, the system that would play to their strenghts and help them perform in the level that's gonna make them get in the HOF is different. They don't "naturally" fit in as much as we'd hoped for.
I don't think MDA is the right coach for the team.
Etc, etc, etc...

It took the team a LONG time to find a way to play where everyone was somewhat comfortable, and I think that would've been the case regardless of injuries.

So, to recap, injuries HAVE been the biggest obstacle the team has tried to overcome, but they aren't difference makers to the level of being the sole reason we aren't an "elite team".
Biggest problem, yes, but still a problem among many others.


This. Without all of the multiple embedded quotes and such =)
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Re: WMC 12/13: Missed free throws, no Trans D = no .500 (28-30)

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:59 pm

If Pau comes back and dominates off the bench I think he becomes the x-factor for our team because right now our bench is just too unreliable, they need that all-star quality leader (like Odom was).

We can win games without Pau in the RS but in the playoffs we'll need him in order to even have a chance of upsetting a higher seed.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Missed free throws, no Trans D = no .500 (28-30)

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:08 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:If Pau comes back and dominates off the bench I think he becomes the x-factor for our team because right now our bench is just too unreliable, they need that all-star quality leader (like Odom was).

We can win games without Pau in the RS but in the playoffs we'll need him in order to even have a chance of upsetting a higher seed.


^^ I absolutely agree, although I think even our chances of winning enough RS games to get us in would be a lot higher right now if we had him. I'm missing Pau.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Missed free throws, no Trans D = no .500 (28-30)

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:16 pm

What do you guys base the belief that Pau is still capable of "Dominating" anything anymore? Real question.... his deterioration has been acute and with his age and lack of strength seems irreversible.

At best he gets us some rebounding and a few points in relief of Howard..... but with a ruptured foot I'm not sure we will see anything even as good as we did THIS year from him if he comes back just in time for a playoff run that seem pretty optimistic at this point.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Missed free throws, no Trans D = no .500 (28-30)

Postby JGC on Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:26 pm

^ Roos... It's what I call "Hypothetical Asset" effect. Whenever a player gets hurt, his perceived on-court value goes up and often surpasses his actual on-court value.

When these guys are playing, their values are at their lowest. When they're hurt, they become that missing piece.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Missed free throws, no Trans D = no .500 (28-30)

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:28 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:
I actually believe that this whole seasons struggles start with "effort" (#1) and then Injuries (#2). My point over the last few post was just to say we can't just toss away injury as if it did not and does not have a huge impact on our teams chemistry issues.


I can see this but I'm still of the mind that our "HOFers" are that because of what hey have done..... not what they can do now and certainly not what they will do in the near future.

Expectations were based on what we've all seen these guys do in the past with little regard for the limitations age, injury and game's logged as done to those abilities. That may have a lot to do with what you perceive as a lack of effort when in fact it's old, tired legs. Kobe not getting back on defense is difficult for me to believe as a lack of effort.... it's a lack of the body doing what the mind wants it to....

I'm saying that even in the best of circumstances this season we were only playing with one or maybe 1.5 HOF talent who is still playing at that level...... The rest have had fantastic pasts..... but they are no longer that player.... and in the case of Pau and Nash.... not that close anymore unfortunately.

Howard's injury was known before we traded for him so I discount his disk injury as a factor because there is no situation where that is different.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Missed free throws, no Trans D = no .500 (28-30)

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:30 pm

JGC wrote:^ Roos... It's what I call "Hypothetical Asset" effect. Whenever a player gets hurt, his perceived on-court value goes up and often surpasses his actual on-court value.

When these guys are playing, their values are at their lowest. When they're hurt, they become that missing piece.


I don't totally disagree with this..... strange.... :man10:

The "Super team" we all believed was here was actually our mental projections of these players best years transposed on the reality of todays version of them.

.... or the "Reality Distortion Field" known as "The Wagon"..... :man10:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Missed free throws, no Trans D = no .500 (28-30)

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:07 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
JGC wrote:^ Roos... It's what I call "Hypothetical Asset" effect. Whenever a player gets hurt, his perceived on-court value goes up and often surpasses his actual on-court value.

When these guys are playing, their values are at their lowest. When they're hurt, they become that missing piece.


I don't totally disagree with this..... strange.... :man10:

The "Super team" we all believed was here was actually our mental projections of these players best years transposed on the reality of todays version of them.

.... or the "Reality Distortion Field" known as "The Wagon"..... :man10:


Must be the vodka... :man12:
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:32 pm

Fun win tonight. Sure a victory was kind of expected against Minny. But a blowout? Nice!! :bow:

Man, it feels good to get wins again.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby The Rock on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:45 pm

What a world of difference having some time off in between games make. At no point in time I thought we were gonna lose this game tonight. We struggled so much in NOV, DEC and JAN because lack of continuity with players going in and out of the lineup and we rerarely had more than a day off in between games to work on stuff. The team is showing progress which is huge. We got a boatload of games in early APR vs playoff teams at home, hope Pau is back by then and we get it together. Im excited once again. You gotta put the teams away you're better than, lets see how we do vs ATL Sunday
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby Lakerjones on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:02 am

^^ Yeah, Atlanta is going to be a bigger challenge for sure. Hopefully we finish this home stand strong and get that win to be back at .500.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby scheven on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:18 am

If we can't beat Atlanta at home at this point then we don't deserve to make the playoffs anyway
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:19 am

scheven wrote:If we can't beat Atlanta at home at this point then we don't deserve to make the playoffs anyway

Atlanta is playing fantastic basketball right now.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby lakersyunowin on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:24 am

horford has been playing out of his damn mind recently. it's gonna be a tough one.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby scheven on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:35 am

therealdeal wrote:
scheven wrote:If we can't beat Atlanta at home at this point then we don't deserve to make the playoffs anyway

Atlanta is playing fantastic basketball right now.

And so are we. If the season started today we would at least be 5th seed, which is probably equivalent to the Leastern Conference's 3rd seed. We're also playing them at home with 2 days rest. I'm not saying it should be an easy win but these are the types of games that we HAVE to win.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby King of Clutch on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:43 am

What are you guys talking about? Over the last 5 games, jamison has been THE bench anchor. Averaging just over 15points and 5 rebounds on 50% from the field and 50% from beyond the arc. The bench was THE reason why we came back against the clips after they were blowing us out. They held their own against denver too. Blake has continued to get better, and Pau would only add to that. Now I think pau should start when he comes back, because initially I wanted him off the bench for bench production. But since they're showing signs of holding their own, pau should stay a starter. Just adjust rotations to lessen the time him and howard are on the floor together. Because he still would get killed in PnRs playing the power forward role.

Now him starting doesn't mean the bench should play alone in their entirety. When you have 4 quality players, you should have no problems rotations wise on having at least ONE of those players in the games at ALL times. If D'antoni finds a way to magically make all 4 players be on the bench at any point in time, i'm gonna flip some tables!
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:58 am

scheven wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
scheven wrote:If we can't beat Atlanta at home at this point then we don't deserve to make the playoffs anyway

Atlanta is playing fantastic basketball right now.

And so are we. If the season started today we would at least be 5th seed, which is probably equivalent to the Leastern Conference's 3rd seed. We're also playing them at home with 2 days rest. I'm not saying it should be an easy win but these are the types of games that we HAVE to win.

Well I guess it just sounds like you're underrating them right now. The way you said it makes it sound as if they're equivalent to the Timberwolves and if we can't beat them then we stink.

All I'm saying is we could very well lose this game. :man10:

But I guess we're both right.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby The Rock on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:03 pm

The Lakers are just one game below .500 after their Thursday night win over the Minnesota Timberwolves.

Veteran point guard Steve Nash said he believes the Lakers have finally started to come together.

"We've kind of turned a corner and we're making improvements instead of continually taking steps back," said Nash. "I think that improvement was a long time coming but it's only the beginning."

The Lakers need to win at a high level to climb up from ninth place.

"We're putting ourselves in a position where we could climb into the playoffs," said Nash. "I really feel we're a long ways off where we could be, but we're getting better."

What was missing? What changed from the stretch where the Lakers seemed to regularly flounder?

"Time," said Nash. "We needed time together."

Even with forward/center Pau Gasol out with a foot injury, the Lakers have continued their slow climb in the standings.


They'll be tested over the next two games with the Atlanta Hawks visiting on Sunday and a trip to Oklahoma City and the Thunder the following Tuesday.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:22 pm

So Nash believes it took time to get them working well toghether. Hmm.. I heard that somewhere before.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby Chillbongo on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:27 pm

Yes, time and injuries have been an issue. But you're telling me this team with

Kobe Bryant
Dwight Howard
Steve Nash
Pau Gasol
Ron Artest
Antawn Jamison
Earl Clark

Should have been 8 games under .500 at one point? Injuries do and have mattered, but are no excuse for us being this poor. We've had Dwight Howard and Kobe the entire season. There is no legitimate excuse for playing this poorly.

Other reasons are personnel and coaching. Add injury to the mix and you can understand why we're here. Thank god we dumped MDA's offense and are running whatever the hell we are now. Or we wouldn't even be this good. We are truly missing a team that can get out in transition and run and back in transition, make no mistake.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:50 pm

Our transition defense is just bad. It looked better last night because we were facing an inferior team. My fear is when we play the Hawks & OKC it will be exploited, again. We just don't have the team speed to get back.

Either way, we can combat that by not turning the ball over & controlling tempo; if we do that, we give ourselves a good chance...
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby The Rock on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:54 pm

You dont think chemistry and time together matters, look at the 2004 Team USA squad that has Duncan, Marion, Lebron, Wade, Melo, Iverson...loaded talented squad didnt capture gold. Heck we had a squad just like that in 06 World Championships that had Dwight, CP3 and Bosh along with those guys and still didnt get gold. Just saying you cant just put ton of talent on the court without giving them ample time to work it out
Last edited by The Rock on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby karacha on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:56 pm

dwighthowardsdad wrote:Our transition defense is just bad. It looked better last night because we were facing an inferior team. My fear is when we play the Hawks & OKC it will be exploited, again. We just don't have the team speed to get back.

Either way, we can combat that by not turning the ball over & controlling tempo; if we do that, we give ourselves a good chance...


That's the key, right there. Especially the turnovers.
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby The Rock on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:59 pm

we've always had TO issues and poor transition defense, guys like Aaron Brooks in 09 and Westbrook in 2010 took full advantage of that. Heck even the Phoenix Series in 2010 went 6 games because of that. We always had these following things to cover up those weaknesses...rebounded better (especially on offense), hit our free throws, Kobe's heroics and great 3 point shooting from Kobe being double teamed
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Re: WMC 12/13: Bounced Back Beatdown (29-30)

Postby karacha on Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:07 pm

^

True, we've always had issues with that. But now it's even worse, because we're older and the league is even more athletic in general. Our bigs have been hurt (rebounding), and Kobe is still incredible, but he's probably not as good as he used to be few years ago (heroics).
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