WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Re: WMC 14/15: Whine a lil, Moan a lil, Complain A LOT!

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:47 am

Rooscooter wrote:To me this offseason isn't a huge surprise. It's about what I expected with the exception of that we have not gotten rid of Nash.

This offseason and the next couple to come are the product of selling our soul to stay in contention for 12 years IMHO. That and the hangover of the Phil era. Don't get me wrong.... Phil was great but his distain for developing youth showed in our personnel decisions over the years. The swinging for the fences and lack of valuing our draft picks is what has us in this hole.

As someone who's seen a few "Era's" of Laker ball I can tell you than at no point did I ever question the GM like I do now. Banking the entire offseason on getting a player at 30 years old just to keep ratings high is not a "Laker" thing to do. Even in the best scenario Melo wasn't making us anything but a better product to sell. The banners for Howard last year was another low.... as was the Nash trade.

The thing fans need to understand about top FA coming to the Lakers is that we've only done that ONCE with our great players...... and that is Shaq. In my time as a fan even secondary stars or ones nearing the end of their careers have only come here a few times. McAdoo, Woolridge, Malone and Payton. These guys were all support players when they arrived. The idea that we aren't attractive to the best players in the game is somewhat of a misnomer.... if it's truly "attractiveness" that is the key then we've never been attractive..... or how I remember it.... never wanted to be. That wasn't how we build the dynasties in the past other than Shaq.

Our teams in the 80's always had new and young blood. Worthy, Scott and Green were all drafted DURING a period of dominance. We maneuvered during drafts and traded assets for draft pick all the time during that run. We put value in the draft and in player development. Something we've ignored for a decade or longer. We've had some decent second round picks but instead of getting value for them we let them leave in FA.

We're at our lowest point in my tenure as a fan.... it's a product of how we've been managed over the last 10 to 12 years however IMHO..... not just the past 3. The mentality of 2 stars and a bunch of infills in lieu of a plan to sustain and develop assets has left us in this hole. The Spurs have had one of the longest runs in NBA history based on getting assets and being very smart in using them to maintain a mix of youth and veterans that has stayed at or near the top of the NBA for going on 15 years. They are what we were in the 80's.

What's truly unfortunate for us Laker fans is that I don't see this changing anytime soon. The prevailing thought seems to be that we will just get superstars on their downside at age 30 or so and toss a bunch vets looking for a shot together after we connect on the star..... The moves so far are telegraphing another such scenario in a year or two as we are not getting young guys to develop or trade as assets.... we're getting guys who will all come off the books at the same time.

I've said it before and gotten a ton of push back..... but.... it's time for Mitch to go. He's the basketball mind up there and this near desperation offseason has left is in a deeper hole it seems.... and that is no small accomplishment after last season.


100% agreed. Our unwillingness to properly scout, acquire and develop young talent is our biggest flaw. That's what separates us from SAS. They have always infused their teams with young talent to develop.

This season will be another wasted season. A redo of last year. And the sad part is, it didn't have to be. In a rebuild, you acquire young talent and let them get the playing time to improve and gain experience. But we don't have any young talent outside of Randle. We essentially brought back last year's team. So this season is a waste because most of our players are vets and we are not developing young talent. That's what you do in a rebuild.

It's almost sad how desparate this FO has become at getting a superstar. As if that will fix everything. Their whole plan seems to be about superstars and nothing more. It's sad to know this team is in such terrible hands.
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Re: WMC 14/15: Whine a lil, Moan a lil, Complain A LOT!

Postby southbaylakers72 on Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:49 am

Lakers history was Guys like b Scott (trade) ac green (draft) Rick fox (trade) and horry (trade) along with some proven superstars. We got Randle and cap space for 2015 and Kobe. We have expiring deals and HOU pick. We are the lakers and the pieces will fall into place. Just need to be patient. The nve and Eddie jones teams with diva were heartache but fun to watch. It is a game afterall. Can't win 82 (no team ever has) and in this era can't win 10 in a row or even go to 10 finals in a row (Miami proved that). Now the question is whether Scott is the coach or not. I think he and Lin are going to be a good pairing.
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby leftymo on Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:01 am

Team Tank 2014.

Before the season started last year, Vegas had the Lakers winning 37 games. I posted on twitter that I went through the schedule and realistically saw about 31-33 wins. I was ridiculed, laughed at, etc... They didn't even come close to my projection.

I wonder what the projection will be for 2014. I can't imagine them being even close to 37 games, but Randle I think is the key.

I'll count on 25 games from Kobe/Nash each. So really this team will go as far as Randle/Lin take them, which is probably in the 35 win range at best.

Team tank 2014 is alive.
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby Azndude2190 on Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:04 am

IMO, we can't properly rebuild until Kobe's contract is off the books and he retires.
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:11 am

Azndude2190 wrote:IMO, we can't properly rebuild until Kobe's contract is off the books and he retires.


Nothing could be further from the truth. You can always rebuild and acquire talent. For example this year, we could've acquired several more young talent to go along with Randle and let them develop.

Your mindset resembles that of the FO. Thinking once Kobe is gone, we can start fresh again. We could've started this offseason. We gave Hill 9 per and offered Gasol 10 per yet we didn't want to give Braze 1 per? :bang:
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:14 am

leftymo wrote:Team Tank 2014.

Before the season started last year, Vegas had the Lakers winning 37 games. I posted on twitter that I went through the schedule and realistically saw about 31-33 wins. I was ridiculed, laughed at, etc... They didn't even come close to my projection.

I wonder what the projection will be for 2014. I can't imagine them being even close to 37 games, but Randle I think is the key.

I'll count on 25 games from Kobe/Nash each. So really this team will go as far as Randle/Lin take them, which is probably in the 35 win range at best.

Team tank 2014 is alive.


I will be shocked if we approach the .500 mark. We play in the WC. Almost every night will be played against superior teams. Like you said, the unknown is Randle. If he plays like a star, then .500 might be approachable. But in any other scenario, I see about 35 wins.
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby Azndude2190 on Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:20 am

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
Azndude2190 wrote:IMO, we can't properly rebuild until Kobe's contract is off the books and he retires.


Nothing could be further from the truth. You can always rebuild and acquire talent. For example this year, we could've acquired several more young talent to go along with Randle and let them develop.

Your mindset resembles that of the FO. Thinking once Kobe is gone, we can start fresh again. We could've started this offseason. We gave Hill 9 per and offered Gasol 10 per yet we didn't want to give Braze 1 per? :bang:


You can rebuild, but like I said, it won't be a proper one with an aging star on your team eating up a good chunk of your cap space.
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby 432J on Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:21 am

35 wins is pushing it if you ask me

i sense 27-30 wins to be honest. it'll basically be a repeat of last year
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby kenzo on Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:22 am

We won't sniff .500 even if Randle plays like a ROY.
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:24 am

Azndude2190 wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote:
Azndude2190 wrote:IMO, we can't properly rebuild until Kobe's contract is off the books and he retires.


Nothing could be further from the truth. You can always rebuild and acquire talent. For example this year, we could've acquired several more young talent to go along with Randle and let them develop.

Your mindset resembles that of the FO. Thinking once Kobe is gone, we can start fresh again. We could've started this offseason. We gave Hill 9 per and offered Gasol 10 per yet we didn't want to give Braze 1 per? :bang:


You can rebuild, but like I said, it won't be a proper one with an aging star on your team eating up a good chunk of your cap space.


Disagree. This offseason was the time to start the rebuild. I love what Kobe has done for this franchise but he should get little consideration when rebuilding.. We need to think long term and that means getting a guy or two that will be here long after Kobe is gone. Also, young talent is sometimes cheap. It's the established stars that get the $$$. Hey, if we are throwing around 10 mil per at Gasol and Hill, why can't we do that for Lance, Isaiah, etc (Isaiah was only 7 per)?
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:30 am

Yeah guys, it's going to be bad once again. Lin, Kobe and Young shooting us out of games. No resemblence of a defense. The one thing I look forward too is Randle and hoping he becomes something special. Other than that? :bang: Sad part is, we offered Gasoft 10 per when he is 34. We just got lucky he declined. :bang:
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby leftymo on Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:06 am

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Yeah guys, it's going to be bad once again. Lin, Kobe and Young shooting us out of games. No resemblence of a defense. The one thing I look forward too is Randle and hoping he becomes something special. Other than that? :bang: Sad part is, we offered Gasoft 10 per when he is 34. We just got lucky he declined. :bang:


There's discussion this am about Mike Dunleavy Jr in a S&T... I wonder if Mike Dunleavy becomes the coach if we get his son... lol.

I know John Ireland thinks Kobe will be back to 2012 Kobe, but as a physician, I can't bank on that, b/c of his mileage. Older players get hurt, its just what they do. Scott or the next coach would have to significantly limit his minutes.

To get anything out of Steve Nash means he gets to be a backup PG 10-12 minutes every other game! So Marshall gets the bulk of the backup PG minutes...

Kobe also should have off games. back to backs, etc...

This is still a young man's game, and the Lakers need their young guys to log the bulk of the minutes.
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby RyanWestLombardi on Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:28 am

I highly anticipated what the Lakers would do to fix their downward spiral this off season.Starting with the drafting of Randle and Clarkson it showed some promise. Going after Melo was bold , but I had no confidence he would make them into a real contender even if Gasol stayed. So when it appeared they were out of the running on Melo, Lebron I thought OK...time to go after the next tier....Deng, Stephenson, Ariza, Thomas, Parsons, Monroe,Livingston, ect...I was floored when the trade for Lin was announced thinking how could they have helped Houston clear cap space for Bosh?!!Also taking on 8+ mil in cap room denying any bold moves for other FA's. I feel better now that Bosh burned Houston but am not high on Lin at all. They have now let Bazemore go to Atl for a 2yr 4 mil deal...a bargain for the Hawks, the one guy on last years team that played any defense plus has a huge upside.Instead they take on Young, Hill for 14mil more in cap space...leaving them with a team that looks worse than last years. The starting lineup of Lin, Bryant, Young, Hill and Sacre is laughable, especially defensively. Kobe is going to flip out and go into bad Kobe gunner mode very early in the season, and Young will follow suit.The bench consists of Clarkson, Randle, Marshall and Nash in street clothes. 4 more guys needed with a 2.7 exception with others receiving minimum deals.I was hoping for more this off season but am not too surprised how it turned out. My hopes now focus squarely on Randle developing into a Zach Randolph clone and Clarkson being a steal in the second round. Then as the season progresses if I'm right in my thinking that this is just a God Awful team,I hope they fall into a for sure lottery team to keep that top 5 protected pick they traded to the Suns...Already studying Draft Xpress and their Mock draft for 2015...
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby leftymo on Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:36 am

kenzo wrote:We won't sniff .500 even if Randle plays like a ROY.



That's partly b/c of the geriatric players on the team, partly b/c of a new collection of players that aren't used to playing together, and partly b/c of being in the western conference.

Heck if we were in the east, we might be a playoff team! (still probably not .500 though)
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby denimPortugal on Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:46 am

Target: tank, to be top 5 in 2015 draft!
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby khmrP on Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:41 pm

The way we tank Pho will surely end up with the 6 or 7th pick :man10:
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby themasterphil on Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:48 pm

The sad thing about all of the FA this summer is that I already check what is available on 2015 nba draft....f''' this i am starting to lose patient...... :bang: :bang: :bang:
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby Snakell Beast on Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:55 pm

EDIT - Posted in wrong topic on Byron Scott having second thoughts if he's a sane individual.

On another note...I'm not sure we can even tank. I don't think we'll be as bad as some of the other teams in the league. I don't think there's any way we can guarantee that we make it into the top 5...and even then, the talent isn't good enough to care one way or the other anyway. We're so SB&T :disagree: :man5:
Last edited by Snakell Beast on Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby lotus on Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:02 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:What coach is going to want to walk into an instant hot seat with impossibly high fan expectations, and little ability to win. I think the Lakers should hire an empty suit crap coach for now, then wait until we have some pieces to go after a real one post Kobe. My two cents on that.

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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby Snakell Beast on Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:09 pm

lotus wrote:Mike Brown says hello.


After the embarrassment he had in Cleveland AFTER the embarrassment in LA AFTER the embarrassment in Cleveland...I don't think he's looking to coach again anytime soon, ESPECIALLY NOT IN LA OR CLEVELAND :man10:
The End is nigh. Time for a total Cut and Shuffle. Kobe contract was a mistake...time to avoid making more. The future is here, whether we want it to be or not. An era is over, but for the death rattle, and it's time for the cycle to begin anew. Growth and change are scary and painful, but alas...nothing worth achieving comes easily.
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby SCOOTERP10 on Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:21 pm

Can Kobe be traded and we pay part of his salary? He will demand a trade I'm sure, but is it possible with that cap hit? Could we do something with OKC for Perkins and collison?
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby shoe on Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:36 pm

SCOOTERP10 wrote:Can Kobe be traded and we pay part of his salary? He will demand a trade I'm sure, but is it possible with that cap hit? Could we do something with OKC for Perkins and collison?


You want to trade Kobe for Perkins and Collison? :man3:
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby SCOOTERP10 on Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:27 pm

Just using an example w picks of course and young players thrown in there. I was asking a question mostly. There is no way Kobe goes out on this team. He might just retire. What's the point
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby CaCHooKa Man on Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:38 pm

Kobe has a 15% trade kicker. The Lakers aren't gonna pay $7 million to trade him.
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Re: WMC 14/15: The Lost Cause! Tank 2014

Postby SCOOTERP10 on Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:51 pm

Kenton's deal is only 2 years. Maybe we can get Lebron and KD to join up in 2016?
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