Kobe Discussion: Shutting it down; Puts Lakers FO on blast

Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby Ariza3 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:37 am

I agree. on that last possession where Kobe got the screen and missed the shot over nene he had Nash wide open for top of the key for a wide open 3. things like that where Kobe actually passes the ball are plays that should actually be used instead of making everything into a Kobe ISO. granted that shot was easy for him he just missed as he was all night
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby dj vitus on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:39 am

Quite honestly, Kobe did seem to have a lot of great looks... he just missed all of them, probably because of the ankle, or maybe just one of those games.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby Herm24 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:52 am

Ariza3 wrote:I agree. on that last possession where Kobe got the screen and missed the shot over nene he had Nash wide open for top of the key for a wide open 3. things like that where Kobe actually passes the ball are plays that should actually be used instead of making everything into a Kobe ISO. granted that shot was easy for him he just missed as he was all night


That shot went in and out and he had a great look at it .. He knocks that down 95% of the time .. He defense on other hand was well .. Pathetic! .. Where the game was lost: In the 1st quarter Nash got fouled on a 3 point shot .. The refs for no apparent reason said he wasn't shooting while he was clearly in the air .. Lakers end up taking the ball out of bounds instead of getting 3 free throws from Nash .. Then later on in the game .. With .3 seconds left on the Wizards 24 second clock .. They run a sideline line play and Webster makes a wide open baseline 3 pointer .. In the rules with .3 left only a tip can be attempted .. You don't have enough time to catch and shoot .. Should've never counted .. Those 2 plays cost us the game .. It's funny how things work out like that sometimes
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby The Original 81 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:23 am

v1n5anity wrote:You guys have no argument :man10: . It's okay. I don't like admitting it either. But Kobe ain't that good anymore.


What's you're argument? Off of one game? Kobe sucked hard last night but I think you're overreacting just a tad with some of your comments.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby v1n5anity on Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:29 am

Herm24 wrote:
Ariza3 wrote:I agree. on that last possession where Kobe got the screen and missed the shot over nene he had Nash wide open for top of the key for a wide open 3. things like that where Kobe actually passes the ball are plays that should actually be used instead of making everything into a Kobe ISO. granted that shot was easy for him he just missed as he was all night


That shot went in and out and he had a great look at it .. He knocks that down 95% of the time .. He defense on other hand was well .. Pathetic! .. Where the game was lost: In the 1st quarter Nash got fouled on a 3 point shot .. The refs for no apparent reason said he wasn't shooting while he was clearly in the air .. Lakers end up taking the ball out of bounds instead of getting 3 free throws from Nash .. Then later on in the game .. With .3 seconds left on the Wizards 24 second clock .. They run a sideline line play and Webster makes a wide open baseline 3 pointer .. In the rules with .3 left only a tip can be attempted .. You don't have enough time to catch and shoot .. Should've never counted .. Those 2 plays cost us the game .. It's funny how things work out like that sometimes


No. You're dead wrong. Even after those two plays, Lakers were up 16. Kobe lost us the game. You can catch and shoot with .3 the clock. It's only .2 where you must tip the ball.

And Kobe doesn't make that shot even close to 95% of the time.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby Herm24 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:50 am

You're right it is .2 seconds .. Even Stu didn't know that last night .. And a 10 foot fall away for Kobe is automatic .. That's wasn't a tough shot at all
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby Finwë on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:11 pm

v1n5anity wrote:
Herm24 wrote:
Ariza3 wrote:I agree. on that last possession where Kobe got the screen and missed the shot over nene he had Nash wide open for top of the key for a wide open 3. things like that where Kobe actually passes the ball are plays that should actually be used instead of making everything into a Kobe ISO. granted that shot was easy for him he just missed as he was all night


That shot went in and out and he had a great look at it .. He knocks that down 95% of the time .. He defense on other hand was well .. Pathetic! .. Where the game was lost: In the 1st quarter Nash got fouled on a 3 point shot .. The refs for no apparent reason said he wasn't shooting while he was clearly in the air .. Lakers end up taking the ball out of bounds instead of getting 3 free throws from Nash .. Then later on in the game .. With .3 seconds left on the Wizards 24 second clock .. They run a sideline line play and Webster makes a wide open baseline 3 pointer .. In the rules with .3 left only a tip can be attempted .. You don't have enough time to catch and shoot .. Should've never counted .. Those 2 plays cost us the game .. It's funny how things work out like that sometimes


No. You're dead wrong. Even after those two plays, Lakers were up 16. Kobe lost us the game. You can catch and shoot with .3 the clock. It's only .2 where you must tip the ball.

And Kobe doesn't make that shot even close to 95% of the time.

I don't really disagree with your assessment of Kobe's performance last night, but I don't think you can actually say that he alone "lost us the game". That's just not how it works..
The entire team got extremely complacent in the 3rd. A bunch of lazy passes were thrown (some by Kobe), took some bad shots, and worse of all, didn't try hard on D at all.
D'Antoni may be a lot of things, but he was right last night in his post-game interview saying that it looked like guys were just thinking "I don't need to play hard on D, we'll just outscore them" (means nothing if he isn't telling that to the players and really confronting them though).
NBA basketball is all about momentum. In the first half our D wasn't really that good, but we were doing well on offense and the Wizards were missing makeable shots and making mistakes of their own. We kept the momentum and they never got into rythm. However, a couple of minutes into the 3rd, that vastly changed. Our lazy mistakes on O led to easy shots (layups of transtion 3s) for them on the fastbreak, and they started to gain momentum. As soon as they got into a little rythm, the shots that weren't really falling for them in the first half started to drop. They played better D, and we failed to adjust properly. The lead completely faded away.

Of course we played pretty terribly on O to end the 4th, and most of it is on Kobe (though there's blame to place on the coach and on Nash in that regard, they need to step up. MWP also gets some blame for one of the most disgusting crunch time plays I've ever seen), but the game was "lost" in the 3rd Q, where we lost all of our momentum and gave away what minutes before had been a 16 point lead. And that was NOT only Kobe's fault, it was a team-wide collapse.
Kobe was the "zero" last night IMO, one of the rare occations where he's the guy who deserves most of the blame, but "closing" isn't only the last 5 minutes or the last 8 minutes. It's also taking advantage of the huge lead you've created and putting away the bad team you're facing in the 3rd, so you can rest your starters the entire 4th. The reason we weren't able to do that wasn't just Kobe, and I don't think you could argue it was.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby v1n5anity on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:14 pm

Sure. Kobe wasn't the only reason. But he was the biggest reason.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:16 pm

v1n5anity wrote:You guys have no argument :man10: . It's okay. I don't like admitting it either. But Kobe ain't that good anymore.


Some of you guys need to stop being dramatic. It's like when people laugh when they're nervous. Before the injury this guy had back to back 40+ 10+ assists games, he lead the league in scoring last season, and lead it for a brief time this season.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby v1n5anity on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:17 pm

Herm24 wrote:You're right it is .2 seconds .. Even Stu didn't know that last night .. And a 10 foot fall away for Kobe is automatic .. That's wasn't a tough shot at all


Not saying it's a tough shot. But it's no where near 95% accuracy. More in the 50-60% range.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby v1n5anity on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:17 pm

Jazzygirl205 wrote:
v1n5anity wrote:You guys have no argument :man10: . It's okay. I don't like admitting it either. But Kobe ain't that good anymore.


Some of you guys need to stop being dramatic. Before the injury this guy had back to back 40+ 10+ assists games, he lead the league in scoring last season, and lead it for a brief time this season.


Yeah he gets his stats.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby cthroatgtr on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:18 pm

Lakers lost the game in the 3rd and it was a collective loss. Not like anyone else was doing a lot either. Nash wasn't shooting well. Pau was off. Kobe was off. Should never had let that lead slip. Once it got to single digits lakers were done.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:18 pm

v1n5anity wrote:
Jazzygirl205 wrote:
v1n5anity wrote:You guys have no argument :man10: . It's okay. I don't like admitting it either. But Kobe ain't that good anymore.


Some of you guys need to stop being dramatic. Before the injury this guy had back to back 40+ 10+ assists games, he lead the league in scoring last season, and lead it for a brief time this season.


Yeah he gets his stats.

So do other players, your point, other than complaining about this loss on a comeback from a injury?
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby Finwë on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:20 pm

Vinsanity, well that's why he was the zero, though most of the criticism of Kobe's performance last night had to do with how he played in the 4th to close the game, and, like I said, the game was "lost" midway through the 3rd.
I'm not sure I'd call him the biggest reason for the 3rd Q collapse, which is why we lost the huge lead and had to play crunch time minutes in the first place. I think it was a pretty balanced failure, everyone looking complacent and lazy. Nash couldn't stop Wall at all, Gasol was hilariously bad on D, Kobe left Ariza wide open a bunch of times, and everyone was making stupid/lazy mistakes on O leading to easy shots for them..
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby Finwë on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:23 pm

v1n5anity wrote:
Herm24 wrote:You're right it is .2 seconds .. Even Stu didn't know that last night .. And a 10 foot fall away for Kobe is automatic .. That's wasn't a tough shot at all


Not saying it's a tough shot. But it's no where near 95% accuracy. More in the 50-60% range.

That particular shot? I'd say around 75%. It's like his go-to shot a lot of times, close range, and with the defender not even close to contesting enough..
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby v1n5anity on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:26 pm

Jazzygirl205 wrote:
v1n5anity wrote:
Jazzygirl205 wrote:
v1n5anity wrote:You guys have no argument :man10: . It's okay. I don't like admitting it either. But Kobe ain't that good anymore.


Some of you guys need to stop being dramatic. Before the injury this guy had back to back 40+ 10+ assists games, he lead the league in scoring last season, and lead it for a brief time this season.


Yeah he gets his stats.

So do other players, your point, other than complaining about this loss on a comeback from a injury?


That we will never do anything with Kobe playing like this in the last few minutes of the game. Kobe ISO ball is a sure fire way to lose most of the time. And he's too stubborn to change on either side of the ball. He thinks it's still 2006 or something...
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:13 pm

Kobe is doing great on offense this season .. outside turning over the ball too much and going 1 on 5 in some 4th quarters ... I blame Nash for not having the balls to make some plays and keep the rock out of Kobe hands for the later...

The pb is on defense ... he has been ball watching for 90% of the season ... it's not realistic to ask him to be more than an average defender with all the mileage in today's NBA but he's been far less than average ... he doesn't defend his man anymore as soon as the later is moving :man3: and always ask for help/wants to switch on bigger players ... again for no reason .

As a player guarded by Kobe , all you have to do is run to the corner and you will be open ... and it's not a matter of Kobe helping to prevent penetration ... he's just not paying attention and following his man and trying to get steals everywhere on the floor ( steals he never gets) ....one of the worst defense I've ever seen
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby Lakerjones on Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:42 pm

wcsoldier81 wrote:Kobe is doing great on offense this season .. outside turning over the ball too much and going 1 on 5 in some 4th quarters ... I blame Nash for not having the balls to make some plays and keep the rock out of Kobe hands for the later...

The pb is on defense ... he has been ball watching for 90% of the season ... it's not realistic to ask him to be more than an average defender with all the mileage in today's NBA but he's been far less than average ... he doesn't defend his man anymore as soon as the later is moving :man3: and always ask for help/wants to switch on bigger players ... again for no reason .

As a player guarded by Kobe , all you have to do is run to the corner and you will be open ... and it's not a matter of Kobe helping to prevent penetration ... he's just not paying attention and following his man and trying to get steals everywhere on the floor ( steals he never gets) ....one of the worst defense I've ever seen


^^ All very true. If we are going to do anything in the playoffs he is going to have to step it up on D. Agreed that he generally has been distributing the ball very well and effectively except for some of these head scratching fourth quarters full of ISO by default or design (unclear as there doesn't seem to be anyone spearheading the direction of the offense in these fourth quarters whether that's on Kobe, D' Antoni, Nash or a combo).
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby Finwë on Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:34 pm

Kobe's been much more effective and impactful on D when he's on the ball. Off the ball he starts to roam and tends to leave shooters open in efforts to try and disrupt penetration or whatever.
The problem is that with all the mileage he's got on his legs, it's very taxing for him to play D on the ball (PGs, mostly) and do what he's asked to do on offense.
IMO if he's playing the way he was last night in the first 2 and a half quarters, that is, letting the game come to him, doing a lot of distributing, taking some shots, occationally taking over for a short stretch but never really going away from the plan, etc; then he should have enough energy to play D on the ball, at least for some parts of the game.
The problem comes when we ride him offensively, he goes ISO and has to really dig deep for points or to create for others. He starts from 30 feet out, has to dribble drive against athletic wings, and then either hit fadeaways, finish over bigs, or draw enough attention to kick it out. That's a LOT to ask of a guy in the 17th season. He'll get tired and his D will suffer, he won't be able to play on the ball..
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby GoldenKnight on Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:36 pm

Careful what you say guys, some people here are very sensitive when you say the truth about Kobe sometimes. I love the guy, but last night he proved why some people call him a ball hog. I'm not saying he is all the time or has been throughout his career, but my goodness! Last night was painful to watch, nothing but Kobe calling for the ball, stopping the flow & firing them up. We need a team effort to win games.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby borri on Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:14 pm

Does Kobe realize he's got Nash on the floor with him now? I mean come on. Be freaking smart about it.

For a smart guy, Kobe is pretty stupid sometimes.

Not only that, how the hell are we gonna build any sort of chemistry come playoff time if he keeps doing this iso-crap in the 4th?

God I wish we still had PJ. Zenmaster is the only guy who can reign Kobe in.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby Maluco Beleza on Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:25 pm

GoldenKnight wrote:Careful what you say guys, some people here are very sensitive when you say the truth about Kobe sometimes. I love the guy, but last night he proved why some people call him a ball hog. I'm not saying he is all the time or has been throughout his career, but my goodness! Last night was painful to watch, nothing but Kobe calling for the ball, stopping the flow & firing them up. We need a team effort to win games.



thank you... I used to be like that.
always defending kobe but at some point you have to call it like it is.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby Tobias Funke on Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:40 pm

Finwë wrote:Kobe's been much more effective and impactful on D when he's on the ball. Off the ball he starts to roam and tends to leave shooters open in efforts to try and disrupt penetration or whatever.
The problem is that with all the mileage he's got on his legs, it's very taxing for him to play D on the ball (PGs, mostly) and do what he's asked to do on offense.
IMO if he's playing the way he was last night in the first 2 and a half quarters, that is, letting the game come to him, doing a lot of distributing, taking some shots, occationally taking over for a short stretch but never really going away from the plan, etc; then he should have enough energy to play D on the ball, at least for some parts of the game.
The problem comes when we ride him offensively, he goes ISO and has to really dig deep for points or to create for others. He starts from 30 feet out, has to dribble drive against athletic wings, and then either hit fadeaways, finish over bigs, or draw enough attention to kick it out. That's a LOT to ask of a guy in the 17th season. He'll get tired and his D will suffer, he won't be able to play on the ball..


Well the easy thing would be to have him just stick to his man off the ball lol, I see what your saying though and agree tho.

When Kobe was turned to to be the main conductor on the offense I was fine with it because it was the only logical step. Nash was injured/recovering from injury (and also cant do it full time at his age), Blake was the same. Duhon I think is a bit better than he gets credit for but still not good enough, and Morris sucks. Minus the turnovers overall it hasn't been too bad considering.

Now Nash and Blake are healthy and playing well and the season is nearing the end, Id give them more ball handling responsibility tho. They've both become more comfortable and assertive when they do have the ball which means when its late in the game and they somehow wind up with the ball with 8 seconds on the clock they're not gonna be like "WTF do I do?" and just fling it to Kobe (Blake more so than Nash ofcourse).
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby Finwë on Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:59 pm

^^ agreed
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Went Through Full Practice (593)

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:15 pm

Offensively Kobe is still a juggler knot but he can't be a two way player anymore. Too many gambles on defense and we got burned because unfortunately the guys he was guarding didn't miss their open looks. Some games it works, some games like this one it doesn't.
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