JGC wrote:I think you're making up the part about people expecting a certain number of rebounds from Kobe. LOL. I have never heard of anyone expecting a certain number in all these years. Where are you getting this idea from?
I referenced the rebound thing because he's been grabbing boards and well and it's usually documented when people talk about his stat lines so that's why I mentioned the rebounds.
Well, having it be documented and there being an expectation of how many he gets every game are two different things. I honestly don't ever recall any analyst, fan or anyone 'expecting' he grab a certain number of rebounds. So I don't think it is really fair, to add that to a list, of what Kobe is 'expected' to do. Scoring, assists, defense, yes.
JGC wrote:Do you think it is unrealistic to expect him to...
- Score around 20 pts on most nights
- Average around 6-7 assists on most nights
- Play solid defense
Depends...it's not unrealistic but people shouldn't expect it all the time.
Why shouldn't people expect it all the time? He does that most of the time. He's averaging 27 pts and 5.5 assists. If you don't think people expect him to put up AROUND 20 pts and AROUND 6 assists on MOST nights, then what do YOU expect him to put up on most nights? 15 pts and 3 assists?
JGC wrote:Or do you think that is beyond what Kobe can do at this point in his career?
I've seen people who've had the privilege to go to games say he's slowed down a bit, I don't think it's something we can expect to see every single game from Kobe. You might get a 60% shooting game on just 10 shots but with like 9-11 assists, you might get a 30 point games or a 28 point game with just or 6 assists on 20 shots. It's just something we have to live with, imo if the team is winning with whatever he's going with I'm content with that. He's already said he's not changing his game plan anytime soon. I think he knows his body better than we do.
I've been to games, but I don't think you need to go to games to know he's slowed down a bit. You said that a person cannot expect Kobe to get a certain amount of points, assists, play defense. That's what I was responding to. You're right that on some nights he'll score less and pass more, and other nights he'll score more and pass less. That's fine by me. What isn't fine is when we get to the extremes. 15 pts and 10 assists? Ok. 20 points and 6 assists? Sure. But 40 pts and 0 assists? No thanks. Anyone who can score 40 pts can also score 25 and assist 7 times so I'd rather have that.
Everything the Lakers do are things we have to live with. We have zero control over what they do. Doesn't mean we can't discuss what things would reasonably make the team better does it?
JGC wrote:Of course it's easier said than done. That's why he is paid $30 MILLION per year because what he is tasked with doing is supposed to be considered difficult. That's why his salary alone is nearly half of the entire amount of money teams get to fill their roster before being penalized.
Not sure what his salary has to do with this discussion but okay..
Because you said balance is hard, and that if Ray Allen and Paul Pierce were asked to 'balance' or 'adjust' their games it would be too difficult for them. But Kobe isn't Ray Allen or Paul Pierce. He's Kobe freaking Bryant. He's the highest paid player in the league. He gets paid more than anyone else precisely because he can do what is hard for most other players. If you can't EXPECT Kobe to adjust his game in order to better benefit the team, then he shouldn't be the league's highest paid player should he? There's a reason one-dimensional players get paid less than multi-dimensional players. And Kobe epitomizes multi-dimensional. I mean if you're saying we cannot expect Kobe to score around 20 pts and get around 6 assists almost every night (give or take), then what you're really saying is that he's vastly overpaid.
I understand what you're doing. You want to set the bar low, so you can say wow look how amazing he is but you're talking about one of the best players to ever play the game. The bar should be set high, not low.
JGC wrote:I expect Kobe to do whatever it takes to win ball games. Put the ball in the hole, pass to your teammates, make them better, and play some defense. He's utilizing half the team's cap, he's not Ray Allen nor is he paid like Ray Allen.
As far as him doing whatever it takes to win ball games I'm pretty sure that's what he's doing. Sacrificing one part of his game in order for the team to win. So far it's working. He's going with whatever seems to work for the team, if he didn't care about the team's success he wouldn't be doing what he's doing right now. His teammates prefer this Kobe, I said repeatedly I would like to see balance, I want him to score when warranted but whatever is working, is working.
JGC wrote:I don't ever remember someone saying "Ok now, with Bynum's knees we can't expect this and that" and I certainly don't hear much sympathy for Dwight's injury issues either. Get the job done. That's why you get paid the big bucks. Can't shoot 30 times and dish 10 assists? Fine. Then score 20 points and dish 7. Just, adjust, and do it what it takes to win. Talk about what Kobe CAN do to generate wins, not what he can't do anymore because of his age.
Kobe only cares about winning, he's made the sacrifices so that his teammates can have confidence and play better no matter if they have off games or not. You have to commend him for not going away from the game plan no matter the outcome. It's obvious he doesn't care about having a particular stat sheet, so far we've been having success, at this point all that matters is a win in the end. We've been winning in a little more promising fashion with Kobe being willing passer. I prefer Kobe looking for his shot first with maybe 5 or 6 assists a game to be honest but I'm not going to knock this Kobe because it's proven to be successful for our team.
I completely agree Kobe doesn't care about the stat sheet. I've griped many a time about his shooting, but I have never ever said I believe he was doing that to pad his numbers. Kobe does the overshooting at times IMO because he thinks it's the best way to get to win. But he's wrong.
I am commending him with sticking with the game plan as of late. He's done a great job of it for the most part every since he had that near triple double. But he's gone away from the game plan more often this season than he has stuck with it. And if you look back at a thread roughly titled "Concerns going in to this season" my biggest concern was, will Kobe trust his teammates and not look to do it by himself when the going gets rough. And for most of the season, when we'd get out of sync offensively, he'd go in to hero ball mode and do it on his own. But lately, he hasn't. I've even seen him, in situations where we've lost momentum, make a pass to a player in situations where he would otherwise have done it all by himself. So I commend him for making the adjustment, but, let's not try to pretend he's been doing it all season.
JGC wrote:WHY can't Kobe play with balance? He has shown he can score 30 with no assists, and he's shown he can dish the ball 9 times with almost no points. How about going closer in between those, you know, scoring less and dishing more, a net-net wash in terms of energy output? Why do you feel his age prevents him from doing anything other than either leading the league in scoring or never scoring a basket again and passing only?
Because we can't expect him to go out there every night and expend all of this energy playing all of these roles. That's why Nash was acquired to be the play maker he was in Phoenix, remember fans are complaining about Nash not looking for his shot too since he's been given the role to play off the ball. Nash is accustomed to passing more than anything, Kobe is the opposite of that. I just think people are asking them too do too much instead of just letting them play "their" game the right way. Whatever is working is working. Also as I mentioned what older player has been asked to do all of these things in their 17 season after going out and acquiring players or a player to fill those voids?
What roles? Score and make your teammates better. Defend your man. Basic basketball requirements. I think he can give us between 28-33 mins of elite basketball on most nights. He shouldn't be doing anything different than what he should have been doing all these years. He just can't do it for as long as he used to be able to. He should still score. He should still pass. He should still defend.
No older player has been asked to do all of these things in their 17th season. You're right. So, we shouldn't then, ask him to do all these things right?
Well, what player is a #1 option in their 17th season? None, right? So then, should we strip him of the #1 option on this team then? No older player in their 17th season is asked to be a #1 option so are you suggesting that the team demote Kobe the way other 17 year vets are demoted relative to their peak years?
JGC wrote:Why do we have to accept it? I don't understand that. Is it because it is Kobe? Because we don't accept it from anybody else and last I checked he's a human being too. I don't think I'll ever accept that we're losing more games than we are winning.
I don't think any of us want to accept losing games, I know I don't but this formula at the moment is winning
us games. In the end if it wins us games and moves us closer to the playoffs, then right now, so be it. Other guys have been able to show their strengths and contributions as a result of him passing like this. Sure it would be amazing to see 30 point Kobe along side 10 assists Kobe something similar to what we saw in Miami with Bosh, Wade and Bron. But these guys can do that because either one of them can score 30 or more and free up the other guy. Who else outside of Kobe and sometimes Dwight can give you that privilege so it can allow the star player to focus on other areas while getting his? We can't hold on to leads so how can Kobe be able to give people balance without playing so many minutes as well?
His minutes have nothing to do with balance. He can play 5 mins/game and play with balance. I still don't understand why you think Kobe is incapable of averaging 20 pts and 6-7 assists when he is currently averaging 27 pts and 5.5 assists. Again, you're trying to set the bar way too low just so you can say look how amazing it is that he's beat all expectations! Why are you downplaying Kobe's capabilities?
JGC wrote:Balance has been a struggle for Kobe his whole career. Please don't use his age now as a reason we can't expect him to play the right way. Playing the right way is not necessarily an expectation of numbers, it's an expectation on a style of play.
Well this guy has won 5 rings with this historic franchise so far playing his game, so I'm not sure if it really matters at this point. It's not like he's laid goose eggs all his career, he's been successful and far more successful than a lot of the recent players in this league younger and older. So he must be doing something right. Once we start losing games then I think he'll adjust and think of another formula, but right now for some reason this Kobe passing stuff is working. The team is winning, teammates are happier.
I thought you said we can't expect Kobe to adjust because it takes too much energy to play all these roles. Now you think he will adjust? Which is it?
And for some reason this passing stuff is working? Of course it is, you have many people here asking for that for months now. And it's a combination of things. It's not JUST Kobe passing more.
When he passes, he's not in a hero ball iso situation. So it's a combination of him passing more PLUS less hero ball. Kobe can still shoot 20 times, it just needs to come from a team concept offense, rather than an individual offense.