Kobe Bryant Discussion: Reason for Lakers downfall?

Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby LTLakerFan on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:34 am

^^^ and again, even if it were true, leave it the eff alone!! Crap storm on BSPN if that ever came out.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: faster rehab progress than expected! (679)

Postby TIME on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:28 pm

FabFourLakers wrote:
Battle Tested20 wrote:
FabFourLakers wrote:you guys realize it's only a partial tear right?

he'll be back by opening day. not really worried.


:man10: partial tear, not even close. It was a full rupture. I know your friend is someone you trust and believe but I'll believe Gary Vitti himself and the actually surgery picture Kobe took of the operation which actually shows the complete tear before anybody else's thoughts/opinions.

2:54 - 3:15




Umm sure buddy. If you seriously want more proof, I'll get it for you guys...but I know this much: Nobody can WALK off the court with a fully ruptured achilles, shoot 2 free throws, or recover THIS quickly at THIS age from a fully torn achilles. It just doesn't happen and it's nearly physically impossible.

I'll believe my friend who is a UCLA medical student and has directly worked with Kobe's doctor on a DAILY basis. I don't care what Gary Vitti says...he didn't perform the surgery and the Lakers had to have a story in case they went full tank route and they could easily say Kobe was not ready to come back since it typically takes 6-9 months to come back fully healthy from torn achilles.

Kobe is a WARRIOR but there's no doubt in my mind that it was partially torn. And look...they're already talking about him coming back in PRE SEASON. How many of you seriously thought he'd be back that soon with a torn achilles?


Fabfour, I get why you are inclined to believe him because he is your friend, but it's at the very least a stretch for you to expect us to believe that the team and Kobe are blatantly lying about his injury, and that we should take the rumored word of a UCLA Med Student over Kobe, the team, Vitti, Dr, Klapper, et al.

Plus, it's not just that you are telling us we should believe this student over all of them, but that you have concocted what seems to you to be a plausible conspiracy motive behind their web of lies.

I think I'll just believe the simple story that his rupture actually was complete.
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby checkers09 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:24 pm

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.@kobebryant visited #Milanello today and said: "I always bring #ACMilan in my heart"

Yet as I watched him Monday, I could not help think how little it mattered and how right he is. He is not fading into the shadows. He does not know how to go out that way.[.]
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby LTLakerFan on Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:59 pm

Well the achilles has not stopped Kobe from working his upper body :man4: :jam2: With him you know it's not fat.
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby Battle Tested20 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:49 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:Well the achilles has not stopped Kobe from working his upper body :man4: :jam2: With him you know it's not fat.

Yep, you know he's going to be down in that low post more than ever before when he gets back. Its no secret as he's gotten older that low post game of his will be used more and more.
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby lakersin4 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:56 pm

I'm not crazy about Kobe bulking up at this stage in his career/coming back from such a serious injury. But if they plan on him bulking up a bit to play SF more it explains why we haven't signed another SF. He looked like he didn't have the speed to keep up with some of the quicker guards for long stretches last season. He can still turn it up & be all over an elite PG when that's what we need him to do, but that visibly wore him down last season. Maybe they're gonna have him stick to guarding SG/SF's this season next to quicker wings like Young & Johnson who might not be able to handle the size of some SF's.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: faster rehab progress than expected! (679)

Postby FabFourLakers on Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:26 pm

TIME wrote:
FabFourLakers wrote:
Battle Tested20 wrote:
FabFourLakers wrote:you guys realize it's only a partial tear right?

he'll be back by opening day. not really worried.


:man10: partial tear, not even close. It was a full rupture. I know your friend is someone you trust and believe but I'll believe Gary Vitti himself and the actually surgery picture Kobe took of the operation which actually shows the complete tear before anybody else's thoughts/opinions.

2:54 - 3:15




Umm sure buddy. If you seriously want more proof, I'll get it for you guys...but I know this much: Nobody can WALK off the court with a fully ruptured achilles, shoot 2 free throws, or recover THIS quickly at THIS age from a fully torn achilles. It just doesn't happen and it's nearly physically impossible.

I'll believe my friend who is a UCLA medical student and has directly worked with Kobe's doctor on a DAILY basis. I don't care what Gary Vitti says...he didn't perform the surgery and the Lakers had to have a story in case they went full tank route and they could easily say Kobe was not ready to come back since it typically takes 6-9 months to come back fully healthy from torn achilles.

Kobe is a WARRIOR but there's no doubt in my mind that it was partially torn. And look...they're already talking about him coming back in PRE SEASON. How many of you seriously thought he'd be back that soon with a torn achilles?


Fabfour, I get why you are inclined to believe him because he is your friend, but it's at the very least a stretch for you to expect us to believe that the team and Kobe are blatantly lying about his injury, and that we should take the rumored word of a UCLA Med Student over Kobe, the team, Vitti, Dr, Klapper, et al.

Plus, it's not just that you are telling us we should believe this student over all of them, but that you have concocted what seems to you to be a plausible conspiracy motive behind their web of lies.

I think I'll just believe the simple story that his rupture actually was complete.


My friend has no reason to lie, and I wouldn't put my credibility at stake if I didn't truly believe it. I've been longer than most of you, and I would NEVER put something out there if I didn't believe it to be true. I have every reason to believe that its not fully torn and the recent news of him coming back for PRE SEASON definitely gives merit to this notion. I will ask my friend once again just for you guys. But again, he has ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to lie to me. If anything, Kobe's doctor is lying.
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby LTLakerFan on Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:34 pm

You ever think maybe your friend would be pissed if it got figured out that he was the one blowing the story the surgeon probably told him in confidence? IF it were true. Just so you could be right but at the same time possibly cause a lot of trouble with media toward Kobe and the Lakers organization, etc. IF it were true. :disagree: Leave it alone.
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby OX1947 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:49 pm

Here is my question, why lie? Why say it was completely ruptured if it was partial torn?
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby Battle Tested20 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:19 pm

Yeah I'll say he put on some muscle ( :16 mark):



Translation:

"It takes a lot of hard work to become a champion. When you wake up in the morning, you must start working as if it was the last day of your life all 24 hours. This is the mentality that I have. It's the reason i changed my jersey number to 24." -Kobe Bryant

Exclusive Interview with Kobe Bryant - Italy - @ACMilan

"It's an honor for me to be here and It was always a dream of mine to come to Milanello. On vacation but also here working on rehab. I have to work hard."

"I watched Milan since I was a kid. Milan has always been my favorite team and it's always in my heart. I keep a Milan shirt and scarf in my locker room in LA so I can look at them every day."

"It's difficult to say when i"ll return. I have to work hard. I'm becoming stronger every day and I hope to return in November or December - Nigel De Jong sustained the same injury as I did and I hope that the result of his recovery will be the same as mine."

"Next season the goal is the Championship. That's always the dream. When you start any season you always want to win the championship. Not for individual honors. It's the only thing that counts, the most important thing."

Kobe Bryant's thoughts on The Miami Heat? "Great for them, they have done it well but now we must make sure that things return to a normal state."

Favorite Milan player? "Balotelli is a friend of mine and I want him to become even greater than he is right now."

Consider training with Milan someday? "Yes, why not? I'll come here and play and have fun. You can make me the goalkeeper and shoot at me all day."
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby Helljumper on Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:39 pm

OX1947 wrote:Here is my question, why lie? Why say it was completely ruptured if it was partial torn?


My guess would be to lower expectations so that it would further add to Kobe's legacy and fan morale when Kobe comes back healthy as the same player he was to start the season.
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby TIME on Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:35 pm

Helljumper wrote:
OX1947 wrote:Here is my question, why lie? Why say it was completely ruptured if it was partial torn?


My guess would be to lower expectations so that it would further add to Kobe's legacy and fan morale when Kobe comes back healthy as the same player he was to start the season.


So you think that Jim Buss, Mitch, John Black, Garry Vitti, Kobe, Kobe's doctor, and Dr. Klapper all met in some smoke filled room and hatched this deception to boost Kobe's legacy and fan morale?
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby Helljumper on Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:10 pm

TIME wrote:
Helljumper wrote:
OX1947 wrote:Here is my question, why lie? Why say it was completely ruptured if it was partial torn?


My guess would be to lower expectations so that it would further add to Kobe's legacy and fan morale when Kobe comes back healthy as the same player he was to start the season.


So you think that Jim Buss, Mitch, John Black, Garry Vitti, Kobe, Kobe's doctor, and Dr. Klapper all met in some smoke filled room and hatched this deception to boost Kobe's legacy and fan morale?


No, I don't think so. I believe the doctors, but if it turns out that they did intentionally lie about the severity of the tear, then I think this is one of the only logical reasons as to why.
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby LTLakerFan on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:34 am

My feelings too. Do not believe, but that would seem to be the only type of a reason that would make any sense.
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby FabFourLakers on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:10 am

Listen, I'm like you guys....i definitely want to believe that its fully ruptured and that all these guys are telling the truth...but it does seem a bit ODD that he's now slated to come back in PRE SEASON....think about that for a second! People went from "Kobe will be out for the YEAR" to "Kobe is out until December" to "Kobe may be back for season opener" to "Kobe back for preseason".....I dunno, something is OFF. I know Kobe is a quick healer and almost super human but I think we have to seriously consider the Lakers decision here...maybe INITIALLY everyone thought it was really torn...but lets say that they found out a few days after or a few WEEKS after that Kobe's achilles was only PARTIALLY torn, but they saw the reaction from the media and everyone and they thought hey, perfect opportunity to keep people guessing on Kobe's return and also...now whether they're trying to boost morale by doing this and showing people that Kobe came back quicker than anyone else? I dunno, i hope that's not the case, but in the Jim Buss era, anything is possible. But I know this much: Somebody is lying about Kobe's injury....and it very well could be the Lakers brass, or the doctor....or Vitti...or just everyone.

If it truly is partially torn (which I believe it is), this is GREAT news because it means Kobe will for sure come back the same player he was before the injury.....and we're gonna get MAMBA back by pre season.
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:01 am

I don't think he's slated to come back in pre-season at all. The only person who has said that is Jim Buss.

It's going to take him months just to work his atrophied leg back into game shape. Then another month or two before his conditioning is back to where it needs to be. If he plays to start the season (and let's be clear, that was never openly denied just thought to be a stretch), he'll be half a player. He'll be half a Kobe.

And I'm sorry FFL, but how could they find out days or weeks later it was partial if he had a surgery 2 days after the injury?
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby kenzo on Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:11 am

therealdeal wrote:I don't think he's slated to come back in pre-season at all. The only person who has said that is Jim Buss.

This. Kobe just said he HOPES to come back in November/December. I think we better put this "achilles war" to rest :man12:
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby Punk-101 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:11 am

I'm hoping that this injury is a blessing in disguise to Kobe's style of play and the Laker's success as a team.

The limited athleticism and explosion (we're assuming) should force Kobe to play smarter and pick his spots better. Kobe is probably the best offensive iso player in league history, but he can get carried away and a little tunnel vision at times, forcing things.

I think the injury will force Kobe to:
-play more off-ball, utilize more screens, letting the pg create, catch n shoot, fake-one dribble-pull up, etc. Kobe is deadly at these.
-post up, post up, post up!

We're going to see the most efficient Mamba of his career. 48%fg
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:27 am

I agree actually. I've said that I think the Kobe that comes back has incredible efficiency of movement. I think he really plays a totally different style when he comes back as well. I see him being much more about finding easy looks than about taking people off the dribble. It'll be interesting to see how that happens moving forward.
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby OX1947 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:43 am

I hope they lied. A tear and not a full rupture means better recovery. So, I could care less.
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby lakersin4 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:47 pm

OX1947 wrote:Here is my question, why lie? Why say it was completely ruptured if it was partial torn?

I really hope it was a partial tear & they played it up to scare Dwight away. That's a win/win.. Kobe would have a better chance of a quicker/fuller recovery & we got Dwight to leave 30M on the table so we can go get Lebron/Melo/George & not have to give them that 5 year deal. I know this is extremely far fetched to put it politely. But Kobe spent alot of time learning from Dr. Buss.. If he didn't think Dwight was the guy, & if ANYONE knew Dwight wasn't the guy, it would be Kobe.. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that he ran him off to bring in a #2 he can get to 7 rings with & leave the team in good hands with when he finally retires. I think Kobe cares about this franchise as much as anyone.. Did he do what I'm suggesting? Probably not.. Would/could he have done it if he thought it was the best thing for the Lakers? Yeah.. No question.
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby OX1947 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:31 pm

lakersin4 wrote:
OX1947 wrote:Here is my question, why lie? Why say it was completely ruptured if it was partial torn?

I really hope it was a partial tear & they played it up to scare Dwight away. That's a win/win.. Kobe would have a better chance of a quicker/fuller recovery & we got Dwight to leave 30M on the table so we can go get Lebron/Melo/George & not have to give them that 5 year deal. I know this is extremely far fetched to put it politely. But Kobe spent alot of time learning from Dr. Buss.. If he didn't think Dwight was the guy, & if ANYONE knew Dwight wasn't the guy, it would be Kobe.. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that he ran him off to bring in a #2 he can get to 7 rings with & leave the team in good hands with when he finally retires. I think Kobe cares about this franchise as much as anyone.. Did he do what I'm suggesting? Probably not.. Would/could he have done it if he thought it was the best thing for the Lakers? Yeah.. No question.


I haven't figure out if the Achilles thing is a lie yet, however, you brought up the ploy to get Dwight to leave, There may be some truth to that. The first hint was the #STAY sign. When I first saw that, I thought it was a photo shop. After I found out it was real, I was like, the hell? Why would the Lakers do this? This an organization that runs the show, not let themselves be desperate and clingy. Then, Kobe out of the blue saying he wants to play 3 more years. Why the hell would he say that now? He could have waited at anytime to say this, but he chose to do it right before Dwight is suppose to make his decision?

I think the Lakers saw what Dwight's mental capacity was during the year. He is weak, easily frustrated and takes offense to anything he does wrong when someone points it out. Do you want to put 20 mil per every year for the next 5 years for that when you might have a shot at Lebron or Carmelo in 9 months with a draft pick in the best potential draft since 2003? I say no. Lakers and Kobe played this perfect. We will see if the Achilles story is the same.....
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby LTLakerFan on Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:44 pm

Hell yeah! Nicholson himself rumored to not have been big on Dwight could sell this thriller of a script on a Lakers Movie around Hollywood. :man1:


Soooo glad this topic came up and is being debated now. Uggggghh!
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby 100%effort on Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:16 pm

Apparently Kobe's having another kid. Congratulations Kobe and Vanessa.
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Re: Wolverine Discussion: 3 months ahead of schedule! p.682

Postby MadMax on Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:24 pm

Wow! Congrats to Kobe and his family.
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