Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby DJ-RaZ-Q#24 on Mon May 06, 2013 1:04 am

:jam2: ... that mix is amazing
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby therealdeal on Mon May 06, 2013 9:15 am

Weezy wrote:It hasn't only been recently that it's been the main factor, look back at the list of all MVPs throughout history, it's almost always been the biggest factor. That is the one thing in fact, that I would say has always remained a set criteria. In fact, having a first place/high record might be most responsible for getting guys MVP's some might not agree with and think there were more deserving candidates, like Iverson, Garnett, and Rose. Really that's one of the biggest issues I have with the award, because usually if you have the best record it means you not only have a top player, but also a great team around him. So being one of the absolute top teams record wise in the league should IMO not play THAT big of a role in the award, but it always has.

They ought to change the name of the award to: Best Player in the League. That way there's no real need to discuss it. It becomes clear.

Most Valuable means, literally, the one that poses the most value to their team. Meaning the one that the team relies on the most. And of those guys whose teams rely on him, the best of those guys. That's always been my interpretation.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby JGC on Mon May 06, 2013 9:46 am

therealdeal wrote:
Weezy wrote:It hasn't only been recently that it's been the main factor, look back at the list of all MVPs throughout history, it's almost always been the biggest factor. That is the one thing in fact, that I would say has always remained a set criteria. In fact, having a first place/high record might be most responsible for getting guys MVP's some might not agree with and think there were more deserving candidates, like Iverson, Garnett, and Rose. Really that's one of the biggest issues I have with the award, because usually if you have the best record it means you not only have a top player, but also a great team around him. So being one of the absolute top teams record wise in the league should IMO not play THAT big of a role in the award, but it always has.

They ought to change the name of the award to: Best Player in the League. That way there's no real need to discuss it. It becomes clear.

Most Valuable means, literally, the one that poses the most value to their team. Meaning the one that the team relies on the most. And of those guys whose teams rely on him, the best of those guys. That's always been my interpretation.


Yeah but even the word 'best' is vague. What is best?

They should just get rid of and do 30 MVP awards, one for each team and then pick an MVP from and for each team. Then the fans can be happy their fav/top player got an MVP and there will be little need to debate it.

Or just make the scoring title winner the MVP.

Otherwise, people will just keep muffin topping the meaning to make it fit for who they want.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby OX1947 on Mon May 06, 2013 10:12 am

Kobe was jipped from 2 MVPs. 2006 and 2009. Kobe should be sitting on 3 MVPs and yes MVPs do matter in sports. The fact that Shaq and Kobe only have one MVP in their careers is the biggest travesty in the NBA award annals. There was NO one more valuable in the NBA then Shaq between the years of 2000-02. The fact that he didnt win it in 2001 is a gigantic joke. 2002, not as bad as 2001 but still should have won it.

Kobe was MVP in 2006, I dont care how many arguments you tell me. In 2009, his team won 65 games, swept the grammy trip, swept Boston, Swept Lebron twice, scored 61 in MSG, was the only team to beat the Cavs at home that year(No, I dont count the last game loss where Mike Brown sat everyone). Yes, loses to Lebron in a landslide. And then of course, when Lebron sweeps Kobe the following year, part of the criteria was he beat Kobe twice and won 60 games in the weak [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] east. So the same excuse Kobe had in 2009 isnt used for him but it is used the following year for Lebron. (bleep) bull (bleeo). And the funny thing about 2010, is Kobe made 7 buzzer beaters/Last second shots to win games. How much more value is that? 7 games in a season, that is the difference between a 6 seed that year and a 1 seed from 7 shots.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby Doc Brown on Mon May 06, 2013 10:52 am

The truth shall set you free...

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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Mon May 06, 2013 11:14 am

OX1947 wrote:Kobe was jipped from 2 MVPs. 2006 and 2009. Kobe should be sitting on 3 MVPs and yes MVPs do matter in sports. The fact that Shaq and Kobe only have one MVP in their careers is the biggest travesty in the NBA award annals. There was NO one more valuable in the NBA then Shaq between the years of 2000-02. The fact that he didnt win it in 2001 is a gigantic joke. 2002, not as bad as 2001 but still should have won it.

Kobe was MVP in 2006, I dont care how many arguments you tell me. In 2009, his team won 65 games, swept the grammy trip, swept Boston, Swept Lebron twice, scored 61 in MSG, was the only team to beat the Cavs at home that year(No, I dont count the last game loss where Mike Brown sat everyone). Yes, loses to Lebron in a landslide. And then of course, when Lebron sweeps Kobe the following year, part of the criteria was he beat Kobe twice and won 60 games in the weak [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] east. So the same excuse Kobe had in 2009 isnt used for him but it is used the following year for Lebron. (bleep) bull (bleeo). And the funny thing about 2010, is Kobe made 7 buzzer beaters/Last second shots to win games. How much more value is that? 7 games in a season, that is the difference between a 6 seed that year and a 1 seed from 7 shots.

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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby Jellincon on Mon May 06, 2013 11:22 am

Jazzygirl205 wrote:
OX1947 wrote:Kobe was jipped from 2 MVPs. 2006 and 2009. Kobe should be sitting on 3 MVPs and yes MVPs do matter in sports. The fact that Shaq and Kobe only have one MVP in their careers is the biggest travesty in the NBA award annals. There was NO one more valuable in the NBA then Shaq between the years of 2000-02. The fact that he didnt win it in 2001 is a gigantic joke. 2002, not as bad as 2001 but still should have won it.

Kobe was MVP in 2006, I dont care how many arguments you tell me. In 2009, his team won 65 games, swept the grammy trip, swept Boston, Swept Lebron twice, scored 61 in MSG, was the only team to beat the Cavs at home that year(No, I dont count the last game loss where Mike Brown sat everyone). Yes, loses to Lebron in a landslide. And then of course, when Lebron sweeps Kobe the following year, part of the criteria was he beat Kobe twice and won 60 games in the weak [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] east. So the same excuse Kobe had in 2009 isnt used for him but it is used the following year for Lebron. (bleep) bull (bleeo). And the funny thing about 2010, is Kobe made 7 buzzer beaters/Last second shots to win games. How much more value is that? 7 games in a season, that is the difference between a 6 seed that year and a 1 seed from 7 shots.

:bow:


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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby Weezy on Mon May 06, 2013 2:24 pm

Eh, you want more proof of how much of a popularity contest the MVP can be and what a joke that is, I was just reminded of a stat from 2011 by Pablo Torre on ATH. In 2011, 8 voters left LeBron off their MVP ballot completely. 8 voters, not even a 5th place vote, for LeBron James. Why? Because LeBron had "the decision" that offseason and everyone hated him. That's a joke, these are the people that vote for this "big" "important" award. This IMO is the biggest reason Kobe only won one, and I do agree he deserved it in 06, and in 09, writers and media hate Kobe, they have him one token one because they had to, but we all knew they never would again.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby dj vitus on Mon May 06, 2013 2:56 pm

CGrand81 wrote:
dj vitus wrote:
JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:I don't know how you can say Rose deserved it when these last two seasons have proved just how much less valuable he is than people thought. Thib's defense and the collection of hard workers on that team are the reason the Bulls were so good. Rose just happened to be the flashy guy that scored a lot and his impact just isn't there at the level of a true MVP. The Bulls won the equivalent of 62 games last season with Rose playing in just 39 out of 66 games. In the games he missed the Bulls went 18-9. This season they dealt with a bunch of injuries and still advanced to the 2nd round despite losing another two key players IN the playoffs. Meanwhile Rose sits on the bench like a bum despite being cleared for months. Thibs is honestly the true MVP of that team.

But Miami won a bunch of games that LeBron skipped, too. Can't have it one way and not the other, so this might not help your argument.


Small sample size vs a large sample size. Do not know how to look it up but I didn't remember LeBron missing a ton of games the past 2 years, no where near the extent of Rose.

Okay well Michael Jordan missed a whole year and the Bulls still won 55 games. Just 2 less than the previous year, including a 10 game win streak near the end of the season.

By that standard, Michael Jordan isn't that valuable and shouldn't have any MVPs.

No one can pretend that the Miami Heat can't win at least 55+ games without LeBron James.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby dj vitus on Mon May 06, 2013 3:00 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Rose just happened to be the flashy guy that scored a lot and his impact just isn't there at the level of a true MVP. The Bulls won the equivalent of 62 games last season with Rose playing in just 39 out of 66 games. In the games he missed the Bulls went 18-9.

You do realize the Bulls were 35-9 before Rose went down? That's good for almost 80% wins.

18-9 is about 67%.

So yeah, you just proved the Bulls were better WITH Rose than WITHOUT.

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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby Doc Brown on Mon May 06, 2013 3:18 pm

This is what I don't like about the MVP. The guy that didn't vote for Lebron is catching hell from all directions. What happens next year when he has to vote? Does he just go with the crowd, so he doesn't have to put up with the questions of everyone asking him why? Does he vote for who HE thought was the most VALUABLE player to their team?

It's basically saying don't form your own vote, go with the norm and live with it.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby OX1947 on Mon May 06, 2013 5:54 pm

Doc Brown wrote:This is what I don't like about the MVP. The guy that didn't vote for Lebron is catching hell from all directions. What happens next year when he has to vote? Does he just go with the crowd, so he doesn't have to put up with the questions of everyone asking him why? Does he vote for who HE thought was the most VALUABLE player to their team?

It's basically saying don't form your own vote, go with the norm and live with it.


I understand, but he is still a moron, as was Fred Hickman in 2000 when he was also the only schmuck who voted for a guy who had no business being 1st in Allen Iverson, keeping Shaq from winning unanimously as well.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby JGC on Mon May 06, 2013 6:29 pm

OX1947 wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:This is what I don't like about the MVP. The guy that didn't vote for Lebron is catching hell from all directions. What happens next year when he has to vote? Does he just go with the crowd, so he doesn't have to put up with the questions of everyone asking him why? Does he vote for who HE thought was the most VALUABLE player to their team?

It's basically saying don't form your own vote, go with the norm and live with it.


I understand, but he is still a moron, as was Fred Hickman in 2000 when he was also the only schmuck who voted for a guy who had no business being 1st in Allen Iverson, keeping Shaq from winning unanimously as well.


Isn't this why they have lots of people vote? Couple of outliers here or there won't affect the outcome in most instances.

And I don't know about moron I mean, people in here were picking Kobe for MVP too ya know.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Mon May 06, 2013 8:50 pm

OX1947 wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:This is what I don't like about the MVP. The guy that didn't vote for Lebron is catching hell from all directions. What happens next year when he has to vote? Does he just go with the crowd, so he doesn't have to put up with the questions of everyone asking him why? Does he vote for who HE thought was the most VALUABLE player to their team?

It's basically saying don't form your own vote, go with the norm and live with it.


I understand, but he is still a moron, as was Fred Hickman in 2000 when he was also the only schmuck who voted for a guy who had no business being 1st in Allen Iverson, keeping Shaq from winning unanimously as well.

I am baffled by the idea that a guy is a moron because he doesn't go with the group. It seems to me more people bought into the year long parade of "OMG, we have never seen this before in the NBA" lovefest for Lebron and the Heat than anything else. As the guy who voted for Melo said, "Take Melo off of the Knicks and they not only don't do as well but they don't win their first division title in 19years. Take Lebron off the Heat and the Heat are still a really good team." As one of those Morons, according to the realist (not talking about you), that said Kobe deserves the MVP or at the very least consideration I guess I understand looking at the award for what it was intended, in my opinion of course. I personally appreciate a writer who at least went with his own opinion instead of what was told to everyone at the start of the season.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby JGC on Mon May 06, 2013 11:21 pm

^ Agreed. Although I will say, Laker fans went for the jugular just the same when Shaq got an almost unanimous MVP award. Laker fans even gave that guy Hickman (the one guy who voted for Iverson) death threats!

I think his reasoning was EXACTLY the same as this guy. That, without Iverson the 76ers would have been a lottery team but without Shaq the Lakers would still be pretty good.

I think picking anyone other than Lebron this year and Shaq that year is crazy but, that's why we don't leave it up to one guy to make the choice.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby OX1947 on Tue May 07, 2013 8:37 am

MVP votes should go to coaches and GM's. Sports writers suck balls.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby Rooscooter on Tue May 07, 2013 1:34 pm

dj vitus wrote:
JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Rose just happened to be the flashy guy that scored a lot and his impact just isn't there at the level of a true MVP. The Bulls won the equivalent of 62 games last season with Rose playing in just 39 out of 66 games. In the games he missed the Bulls went 18-9.

You do realize the Bulls were 35-9 before Rose went down? That's good for almost 80% wins.

18-9 is about 67%.

So yeah, you just proved the Bulls were better WITH Rose than WITHOUT.

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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby slimjim on Tue May 07, 2013 1:43 pm

Jellincon wrote:
Jazzygirl205 wrote:
OX1947 wrote:Kobe was jipped from 2 MVPs. 2006 and 2009. Kobe should be sitting on 3 MVPs and yes MVPs do matter in sports. The fact that Shaq and Kobe only have one MVP in their careers is the biggest travesty in the NBA award annals. There was NO one more valuable in the NBA then Shaq between the years of 2000-02. The fact that he didnt win it in 2001 is a gigantic joke. 2002, not as bad as 2001 but still should have won it.

Kobe was MVP in 2006, I dont care how many arguments you tell me. In 2009, his team won 65 games, swept the grammy trip, swept Boston, Swept Lebron twice, scored 61 in MSG, was the only team to beat the Cavs at home that year(No, I dont count the last game loss where Mike Brown sat everyone). Yes, loses to Lebron in a landslide. And then of course, when Lebron sweeps Kobe the following year, part of the criteria was he beat Kobe twice and won 60 games in the weak [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] east. So the same excuse Kobe had in 2009 isnt used for him but it is used the following year for Lebron. (bleep) bull (bleeo). And the funny thing about 2010, is Kobe made 7 buzzer beaters/Last second shots to win games. How much more value is that? 7 games in a season, that is the difference between a 6 seed that year and a 1 seed from 7 shots.

:bow:


+1


Why kobe didn't win in 2006.

2012/13 Lebron James 66 wins
2011/12 Lebron James 46 wins (66 game season. ~57 wins extrapolated over 82 game season)
2010/11 Derrick Rose 62 wins
2009/10 Lebron James 61 wins
2008/09 Lebron James 66 wins
2007/08 Kobe Bryant 57 wins
2006/07 Dirk Nowitzki 67 wins
2005/06 Steve Nash 54 wins
2004/05 Steve Nash 62 wins
2003/04 Kevin Garnett 58 wins
2002/03 Tim Duncan 60 wins
2001/02 Tim Duncan 58 wins
2000/01 Allen Iverson phi 56 wins
1999/00 Shaquille O'Neal 67 wins
1998/99 Karl Malone 61 wins
1997/98 Michael Jordan 62 wins
1996/97 Karl Malone 64 wins
1995/96 Michael Jordan 72 wins
1994/95 David Robinson 62 wins
1993/94 Hakeem Olajuwon 58 wins
1992/93 Charles Barkley 62 wins
1991/92 Michael Jordan 67 wins
1990/91 Michael Jordan 61 wins
1989/90 Magic Johnson 63 wins
1988/89 Magic Johnson 57 wins
1987/88 Michael Jordan 50 wins
1986/87 Magic Johnson 65 wins
1985/86 Larry Bird 67 wins
1984/85 Larry Bird 63 wins


Why he didn't win in 2009.

Lebron james had a better record and his team improved from 45 wins to a league best 66 wins. 2009 was probably Lebron Jame's most deserved MVP based on merit.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby The Rock on Tue May 07, 2013 1:55 pm

East is weak. Should've had more wins
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby OX1947 on Tue May 07, 2013 2:15 pm

slimjim wrote:
Jellincon wrote:
Jazzygirl205 wrote:
OX1947 wrote:Kobe was jipped from 2 MVPs. 2006 and 2009. Kobe should be sitting on 3 MVPs and yes MVPs do matter in sports. The fact that Shaq and Kobe only have one MVP in their careers is the biggest travesty in the NBA award annals. There was NO one more valuable in the NBA then Shaq between the years of 2000-02. The fact that he didnt win it in 2001 is a gigantic joke. 2002, not as bad as 2001 but still should have won it.

Kobe was MVP in 2006, I dont care how many arguments you tell me. In 2009, his team won 65 games, swept the grammy trip, swept Boston, Swept Lebron twice, scored 61 in MSG, was the only team to beat the Cavs at home that year(No, I dont count the last game loss where Mike Brown sat everyone). Yes, loses to Lebron in a landslide. And then of course, when Lebron sweeps Kobe the following year, part of the criteria was he beat Kobe twice and won 60 games in the weak [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] east. So the same excuse Kobe had in 2009 isnt used for him but it is used the following year for Lebron. (bleep) bull (bleeo). And the funny thing about 2010, is Kobe made 7 buzzer beaters/Last second shots to win games. How much more value is that? 7 games in a season, that is the difference between a 6 seed that year and a 1 seed from 7 shots.

:bow:


+1


Why kobe didn't win in 2006.

2012/13 Lebron James 66 wins
2011/12 Lebron James 46 wins (66 game season. ~57 wins extrapolated over 82 game season)
2010/11 Derrick Rose 62 wins
2009/10 Lebron James 61 wins
2008/09 Lebron James 66 wins
2007/08 Kobe Bryant 57 wins
2006/07 Dirk Nowitzki 67 wins
2005/06 Steve Nash 54 wins
2004/05 Steve Nash 62 wins
2003/04 Kevin Garnett 58 wins
2002/03 Tim Duncan 60 wins
2001/02 Tim Duncan 58 wins
2000/01 Allen Iverson phi 56 wins
1999/00 Shaquille O'Neal 67 wins
1998/99 Karl Malone 61 wins
1997/98 Michael Jordan 62 wins
1996/97 Karl Malone 64 wins
1995/96 Michael Jordan 72 wins
1994/95 David Robinson 62 wins
1993/94 Hakeem Olajuwon 58 wins
1992/93 Charles Barkley 62 wins
1991/92 Michael Jordan 67 wins
1990/91 Michael Jordan 61 wins
1989/90 Magic Johnson 63 wins
1988/89 Magic Johnson 57 wins
1987/88 Michael Jordan 50 wins
1986/87 Magic Johnson 65 wins
1985/86 Larry Bird 67 wins
1984/85 Larry Bird 63 wins


Why he didn't win in 2009.

Lebron james had a better record and his team improved from 45 wins to a league best 66 wins. 2009 was probably Lebron Jame's most deserved MVP based on merit.


These win arguments that some of you people pull out of your yahoos drives me up the wall. Kobe lead smush parker, KWAmay Brown luke walton and Lamar Odom to within one rebound of beating the #2 seed. And more then likely would have beatin the Clippers in the second round and Kobe owned Dallas that entire year had they met in the WCF. Would coulda shoulda, ya but Kobe was the most valuable player in 2006.

And 2009, his team swept everyone, they won 65 games, he scored 61 in MSG, lakers were a 1 seed in the west and the Cavs won one more game then them in the useless east. Come on, give me a freakin break. Kobe's MVP's are sitting in a room that doesn't belong there for 2006 and 2009. Pure and simple.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby Battle Tested20 on Tue May 07, 2013 2:17 pm

Kobe Instagram:

Foot on the ground! #pray4bear #standup #mambaarmy


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More Progress :bow:
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby dak22 on Tue May 07, 2013 2:33 pm

OX1947 wrote:And 2009, his team swept everyone, they won 65 games, he scored 61 in MSG, lakers were a 1 seed in the west and the Cavs won one more game then them in the useless east. Come on, give me a freakin break. Kobe's MVP's are sitting in a room that doesn't belong there for 2006 and 2009. Pure and simple.


#1 reason why Lebron wins MVP over Kobe in 2009:

Phil Jackson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mike Brown

2006 definitely has a strong case for kobe though.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby OX1947 on Tue May 07, 2013 2:46 pm

dak22 wrote:
OX1947 wrote:And 2009, his team swept everyone, they won 65 games, he scored 61 in MSG, lakers were a 1 seed in the west and the Cavs won one more game then them in the useless east. Come on, give me a freakin break. Kobe's MVP's are sitting in a room that doesn't belong there for 2006 and 2009. Pure and simple.


#1 reason why Lebron wins MVP over Kobe in 2009:

Phil Jackson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mike Brown

2006 definitely has a strong case for kobe though.


Ok, I'm gonna leave now before I say something very bad.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby therealdeal on Tue May 07, 2013 4:19 pm

Battle Tested20 wrote:More Progress :bow:



He's got like a Frankenstein foot going on there.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue May 07, 2013 6:25 pm

The Rock wrote:East is weak. Should've had more wins


This is something I was just going to bring up. Maybe not many fans remember how the media torched the Easter conference for being hot garbage. They called them the LEASTERN CONFERENCE for a reason. THe year LBJ's team won 66 games the 6,7 and 8th seeds in the East had .500 or below records. The 8th seed in the West (Suns .561) would have been the 5th seed in the East over the Heat (.524). More importantly the Lakers had 65 wins to Clev 66 wins. Um that is 1 win difference. I guess with Lebron's greatness the conference being weaker doesn't matter any more.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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