Xavier Henry Discussion: X Man

Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:09 am

Lakerjones wrote:You guys haven't even seen him with Kobe. And it won't happen for some time anyway. But really, don't be surprised if he takes over the starting 3 spot. Henry is better starting material than Young,that's for sure. Talk about not working well with Kobe. That will never work.

When Kobe returns, Young needs to go back to the bench. Young AND Henry off the bench is redundant. They are playing the same position. And doing the same thing - being the scorer.

Better to develop Henry as a starting 3. It's not like we have any better prospects any way at the 3. Not sure why you guys are hung up on it.

Calm down LJ. :man10:

I'm not against him starting or anything, just saying it makes more sense to me for him to come off the bench. In fact, it makes more sense for both he and Young to come of the bench. I'd start Wesley. He's not as effective creating for himself as those two. Having Nash, Gasol, and Kobe to garner attention means easier looks for him.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby Lakerjones on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:12 am

^^ I know, we've been through this before, and I'm even more convinced now that I'm right. Mike D isn't going to be playing Wes at the 3 it seems. So that's kind of off the table. The two guys playing the three are Henry and Young. They are redundant both coming off the bench. They are playing the same position and doing the same thing.

I'll have to agree to disagree with you guys. When Kobe returns, Henry should start.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:15 am

You're right about Wesley. So far they don't want to play him at the 3 for some reason. Maybe because Xavier has been so effective?
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby Lakerjones on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:15 am

therealdeal wrote:You're right about Wesley. So far they don't want to play him at the 3 for some reason. Maybe because Xavier has been so effective?


Precisely.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby GNC on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:18 am

The fact that we can even debate who should start is night and day from last year (thank goodness) :man10: :man10:
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:18 am

Lakerjones wrote:
therealdeal wrote:You're right about Wesley. So far they don't want to play him at the 3 for some reason. Maybe because Xavier has been so effective?


Precisely.

But Henry is a prototypical swingman size. He could play Meeks' minutes and even eat into Blake's at the 2. He's that good and deserves that kind of time. In fact, I'd argue that's the best way to go so you can give Kaman and Hill some minutes too.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby Lakerjones on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:21 am

therealdeal wrote:
Lakerjones wrote:
therealdeal wrote:You're right about Wesley. So far they don't want to play him at the 3 for some reason. Maybe because Xavier has been so effective?


Precisely.

But Henry is a prototypical swingman size. He could play Meeks' minutes and even eat into Blake's at the 2. He's that good and deserves that kind of time. In fact, I'd argue that's the best way to go so you can give Kaman and Hill some minutes too.


This is Mike D we are talking about.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby BDG on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:25 am

Awesome to see Xavier continue his play in an actual regular season game. He's great.

Two things ...

1) Teams are gonna start adjusting to him (i.e. seeing that he like to drive to his left, seeing other habits that he has when they have enough tape to scout him). The true test is to see how he overcomes this and how consistent he'll be. Regardless, it's absolutely great to find a player like him in training camp. I really love his game. He seems to generally make smart decisions so far too.

2) I do think I prefer him coming off the bench in a "Ginobili" type of role. I think it's probably better for him and the team. He can close games out with the rest of the starters if he's feeling it that night.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby Lakerjones on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:27 am

BDG wrote:Awesome to see Xavier continue his play in an actual regular season game. He's great.

Two things ...

1) Teams are gonna start adjusting to him (i.e. seeing that he like to drive to his left, seeing other habits that he has when they have enough tape to scout him). The true test is to see how he overcomes this and how consistent he'll be. Regardless, it's absolutely great to find a player like him in training camp. I really love his game. He seems to generally make smart decisions so far too.

2) I do think I prefer him coming off the bench in a "Ginobili" type of role. I think it's probably better for him and the team. He can close games out with the rest of the starters if he's feeling it that night.


So BDG - when Kobe returns you want to see Young continue as the starting SF? I sure as heck don't.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:30 am

Dude is cool. Doesn't look like pressure affects him. And yeah no excuse at this level to not be able to use his off hand. Hope he works on that.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby revgen on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:31 am

BDG wrote:Awesome to see Xavier continue his play in an actual regular season game. He's great.

Two things ...

1) Teams are gonna start adjusting to him (i.e. seeing that he like to drive to his left, seeing other habits that he has when they have enough tape to scout him). The true test is to see how he overcomes this and how consistent he'll be. Regardless, it's absolutely great to find a player like him in training camp. I really love his game. He seems to generally make smart decisions so far too.

2) I do think I prefer him coming off the bench in a "Ginobili" type of role. I think it's probably better for him and the team. He can close games out with the rest of the starters if he's feeling it that night.


1) LO went to his left all the time. Teams knew about it for years and did nothing to stop him. That includes the postseason, when the games actually mattered. I'm not saying Xavier is LO, because LO was a way better ball-handler, but just to say that most NBA defenders don't defend left-handers that well despite knowing that the player is left-handed. I don't think it's going to be as big as liability as you think it will.

2) On most teams, I think Xavier would be nice as a bench scorer. But on this team, our perimeter defense desperately needs him as a starter. We've got plenty of 6th man candidates.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby BDG on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:32 am

Lakerjones wrote:
BDG wrote:Awesome to see Xavier continue his play in an actual regular season game. He's great.

Two things ...

1) Teams are gonna start adjusting to him (i.e. seeing that he like to drive to his left, seeing other habits that he has when they have enough tape to scout him). The true test is to see how he overcomes this and how consistent he'll be. Regardless, it's absolutely great to find a player like him in training camp. I really love his game. He seems to generally make smart decisions so far too.

2) I do think I prefer him coming off the bench in a "Ginobili" type of role. I think it's probably better for him and the team. He can close games out with the rest of the starters if he's feeling it that night.


So BDG - when Kobe returns you want to see Young continue as the starting SF?
No but right now I don't think we have a choice. I don't see Young as a long-term solution at SF. I see him as being a spark off the bench if he's hot that night. Young is streaky, everyone knows that.

I think Xavier is gonna have a better time playing with the 2nd unit, as they will push the tempo and play a little more loose. He'll have more freedom there. He might get more open looks if (healthy) Kobe is out there, but I think he can possibly be a reliable go-to guy on offense for our bench.

I think we're going to have to acquire a starting SF that can D up and have Henry and Young as our bench wings.

Johnson can sneak into Young's spot depending on how he performs. I don't see him as being a 4 long-term ... although he didn't play bad D on Griffin tonight.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby BDG on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:36 am

revgen wrote:
BDG wrote:Awesome to see Xavier continue his play in an actual regular season game. He's great.

Two things ...

1) Teams are gonna start adjusting to him (i.e. seeing that he like to drive to his left, seeing other habits that he has when they have enough tape to scout him). The true test is to see how he overcomes this and how consistent he'll be. Regardless, it's absolutely great to find a player like him in training camp. I really love his game. He seems to generally make smart decisions so far too.

2) I do think I prefer him coming off the bench in a "Ginobili" type of role. I think it's probably better for him and the team. He can close games out with the rest of the starters if he's feeling it that night.


1) LO went to his left all the time. Teams knew about it for years and did nothing to stop him. That includes the postseason, when the games actually mattered. I'm not saying Xavier is LO, because LO was a way better ball-handler, but just to say that most NBA defenders don't defend left-handers that well despite knowing that the player is left-handed. I don't think it's going to be as big as liability as you think it will.

2) On most teams, I think Xavier would be nice as a bench scorer. But on this team, our perimeter defense desperately needs him as a starter. We've got plenty of 6th man candidates.

1) I didn't mean to make that my main point (re: going to his left), my bad for not being clear. All I'm saying is teams are gonna have more game film and start to scout him. I remember Shannon Brown was killing it in 2011 once he got the green light then opponents started closing out on his jump shot sooner and he returned to somewhat mediocre form. That being said, I think Xavier will be fine -- he's shown he has a great ability to change directions and has different weapons in his offensive arsenal.

2) I guess I'm thinking long-term. I'd love to have Xavier as our "Ginobili" on a championship-ready roster if he is capable of filling that role.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby Lakerjones on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:41 am

revgen wrote:
BDG wrote:Awesome to see Xavier continue his play in an actual regular season game. He's great.

Two things ...

1) Teams are gonna start adjusting to him (i.e. seeing that he like to drive to his left, seeing other habits that he has when they have enough tape to scout him). The true test is to see how he overcomes this and how consistent he'll be. Regardless, it's absolutely great to find a player like him in training camp. I really love his game. He seems to generally make smart decisions so far too.

2) I do think I prefer him coming off the bench in a "Ginobili" type of role. I think it's probably better for him and the team. He can close games out with the rest of the starters if he's feeling it that night.


1) LO went to his left all the time. Teams knew about it for years and did nothing to stop him. That includes the postseason, when the games actually mattered. I'm not saying Xavier is LO, because LO was a way better ball-handler, but just to say that most NBA defenders don't defend left-handers that well despite knowing that the player is left-handed. I don't think it's going to be as big as liability as you think it will.

2) On most teams, I think Xavier would be nice as a bench scorer. But on this team, our perimeter defense desperately needs him as a starter. We've got plenty of 6th man candidates.


Agreed. In this system you have two guys playing the three only - it's Young and Henry. So when Kobe comes back you have to ask yourself who do I want to play starting SF? To me it's very simple. Young is a bench scorer. That's what he's good at. So put him there.

On top of that you have this kid who is more talented than Young, really, as an all around player. He's got nothing but upside right now. So do the thing that we haven't been doing and need to do - develop him. And if you are developing him to be a starting level SF, then give him minutes as a starter. Not sure what's so controversial about that idea.

You want to teach a kid how to drive? Let him drive. Right? If you are training Henry to be a bench guy forever sure, keep him on the bench. But if you are trying to develop him to play a starting position -one that is currently empty - then do it.

This is all a little premature as Kobe's not back yet, of course. Until then keep Young as a starter as he has more experience, and play the bench more minutes!

Also to the person who said that they thought Young's contract demand was that he starts, I don't think that's possible. To my knowledge starting and playing time have always been at the discretion of the coach, not the demands of the player.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby Lakerjones on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:47 am

BDG wrote:
Lakerjones wrote:
BDG wrote:Awesome to see Xavier continue his play in an actual regular season game. He's great.

Two things ...

1) Teams are gonna start adjusting to him (i.e. seeing that he like to drive to his left, seeing other habits that he has when they have enough tape to scout him). The true test is to see how he overcomes this and how consistent he'll be. Regardless, it's absolutely great to find a player like him in training camp. I really love his game. He seems to generally make smart decisions so far too.

2) I do think I prefer him coming off the bench in a "Ginobili" type of role. I think it's probably better for him and the team. He can close games out with the rest of the starters if he's feeling it that night.


So BDG - when Kobe returns you want to see Young continue as the starting SF?
No but right now I don't think we have a choice. I don't see Young as a long-term solution at SF. I see him as being a spark off the bench if he's hot that night. Young is streaky, everyone knows that.

I think Xavier is gonna have a better time playing with the 2nd unit, as they will push the tempo and play a little more loose. He'll have more freedom there. He might get more open looks if (healthy) Kobe is out there, but I think he can possibly be a reliable go-to guy on offense for our bench.

I think we're going to have to acquire a starting SF that can D up and have Henry and Young as our bench wings.

Johnson can sneak into Young's spot depending on how he performs. I don't see him as being a 4 long-term ... although he didn't play bad D on Griffin tonight.


Not sure I follow BDG. You're saying what I'm saying - Young isn't a long term solution at starting SF - I agree.

You've got a wide open slot this year with three candidates. However, Mike D isn't going to play Johnson at 3. So you have two guys that are playing the position. One of them will start. One of them will be off the bench. They are good at primarily the same roles, but Young is more one dimensional and is set in his ways. Therefore when Kobe returns I would put Young back on the bench where he belongs.

If you put him on the bench, you need a starting SF. Henry is the guy who fits that bill. You can develop him to play that position and then we don't HAVE to go after a starting 3 next year. That's a position filled from within, and he's cheap and young on top of it.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby last stand on Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:05 am

James harden coming off the bench didn't force him into a permanent bench role, if anything it taught him how to lead a unit, how to score and create for others

Look at what Henry has learned the last few weeks. What he's shown

An ability to score, in several different ways, an ability to create for others as well

That goes out the window the second Kobe gets into the fold with Xavier on top of Nash and pau

Just how harden was Neutered by playing with Durant and Westbrook and why he flourished coming of the bench until he was able to have a team all to his own. Henry needs the opportunity to grow as someone who runs a unit. That's the only way he'll have any shot at growing into a legitimate piece of our future

Starting him this season is just that, thinking about this season. Yes he's the heat option at SF. Harden was the best option at SG in okc, and the gap was much larger

But okc knew that harden would grow and play his best without the shackles of Durant and Westbrook

Henry needs the reigns in order to grow, the freedom and space to spread his legs and grow. Playing with starters will result in Henry becoming a spot up shooter. Starting will stunt Henry's growth, and simply doing it this season because we don't want Wes or young starting isn't worth potentially halting Henry's growth
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:21 am

Ariza took over the starting position about halfway through the season in 2009. He needed the time to develop the confidence to be a starter.

I'd be happy to keep X with the 2nd unit until the all-star break. Then let him switch with Young.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:24 am

Ariza took over the starting position about halfway through the season in 2009. He needed the time to develop the confidence to be a starter.

I'd be happy to keep X with the 2nd unit until the all-star break. Then let him switch with Young.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby purp n gold on Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:08 am

Another #7 lefty... I'm an instant fan. The X-Factor :jam2:
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby LakerFan1235 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:24 am

Tonight's game will show us if he is the real deal. If he plays half as well as he did tonight I will be impressed.
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby MC on Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:30 am

This Young or Henry at the 3 is a good problem to have when Bryant gets back........ To me it's a simple answer...... the better defender out of the 2 should get that nod .... they both bring athleticism and scoring punch but which one defends better and is willing to accept that hustle on that end will get you that nod.....
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby MC on Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:31 am

oops double post....sorry
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby Thenextgreat on Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:50 am

oh lord...calm down everybody but just because this seems like a great opportunitiy I would like to bump one of my posts from years ago when Xavier Henry was coming out of HS if I can find it... :man10:
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby denimPortugal on Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:03 am

I always liked Xavier. Huge addiction to our roster! :jam2:
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Re: Xavier Henry Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:04 am

denimPortugal wrote:I always liked Xavier. Huge addiction to our roster! :jam2:

I'm addicted to him already. :jam2:
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