Fri. 11/18 vs. Clippers - Results Inside - Postgame comments

Postby okay on Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:00 am

What's sad is that we were better last year at this time.
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Postby hdtvset on Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:07 am

CDRacingZX6R wrote:
Real Deal wrote:There are some of you who need to learn the triangle before you point the entire blame on Kobe. Since our first game, our spacing has killed us. If you want proof...it's not our turnovers, we weren't blown out on fast break or points in the paint, second chance points were nearly the same, we weren't drastically outrebounded (without looking, I don't think we were, anyways), and it wasn't the passing.

What you're looking at is the ball going to Kobe...and everyone else STANDING, 5-10 feet apart, in what looks to be more of an unknown geometric shape, rather than a triangle. Wake up, fellas...the triangle depends on movement and versatility, cutting and decision-making, passing and resetting...and you can't do a damn thing if you are 5-10 feet apart, with no movement whatsoever.

Take a look at our games in 2000, for example. The ball was moving just as much as our players were. It's not happening, and the end result is: forced shots. Simple as that. I've played enough basketball to know.

The TEAM lost this game...same with all the games we've lost...and it's the same story everytime.


Spacing or not, when your getting doubled and often tripled out there on the court you need to figure out a way to find the other two open men. I cant even count how many times I saw Lamar and Smush open near the basket and Kobe took a stupid of centered jumper.

Poor decisions are poor decisions, no ones perfect but 70 plus shots in two games is horrible, especally when your shooting like Kobe has been lately.

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Postby KB24 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:07 am

reflekt wrote:
KB8@CL wrote:
FabFourLakers wrote:well u know what...this is exactly where the lakers should be right now anyway...nobody expects them to win...i already predicted they'lll go 7-6 for the month of november...and im gonna bank on the lakers beating the bulls, sonics and nets in our last 3 home games...and then losing to the spurs....i guess 7-6 will keep us at least ranked in the west which is surprisingly poor this year....but man we better start winning on the road if we're gonna lose all these HOME GAMES!!!! we've had 4 home games and managed to go 2-2 only...we seriously neeed to get at least 30 wins at home to hav a chance at the playoffs cuz our road record is gonna be bad this year

Thats what I´m saying. As a playoff team you have to win home games against mediocre teams like the Clippers.
Man right now to be honest we just don´t look like a playoff team. No IQ, no depth, no game, no toughness, no bench, no execution, no hustles....
We suck right now to say it with diplomacy.


i agree except i don't know how you can call the clippers a "mediocre team". last time i checked, they're the top team in the west. and it's not a fluke either. they are playing very good basketball. they have outside threats in mobley and cassell. they have yet another outside threat in maggette but who's main expertise is slashing to the basket which he does VERY well. and the clippers also have the most consistent player in the NBA, who gets his 20-10 every single game. not to mention, his huge defensive presence. and finally, a fairly solid center in chris kaman who has exceptional hands and a decent post up game. to top it all off, the clippers have a very good backup PG in ewing, chris wilcox who is very underrated. all of this, and the clippers are without future top point guard shaun livingston.

i'd say the clippers are a VERY good team.

Wasn´t that last year too? Clippers with outside shooters like Jaric and Simmons and Maggette and Kaman and Brand? Clippers are a mediocre team with a good start. Mediocre doesn´t mean they suck. It means sometimes they are good and sometimes they suck. they are just mediocre. Watch out for them to go on a losing streak sooner or later.
I´m not a hater but I have seen too much Clipper ball to believe in their supremacy.
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Postby lakaboy42 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:12 am

damn refs, if they had called that over and back kobe wouldn't have had to force that three and they very well could've won
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Postby Lakerfan36 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:16 am

lakaboy42 wrote:damn refs, if they had called that over and back kobe wouldn't have had to force that three and they very well could've won


dont remind me of the blind refs
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Postby Real Deal on Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:20 am

CDRacingZX6R wrote:
Real Deal wrote:There are some of you who need to learn the triangle before you point the entire blame on Kobe. Since our first game, our spacing has killed us. If you want proof...it's not our turnovers, we weren't blown out on fast break or points in the paint, second chance points were nearly the same, we weren't drastically outrebounded (without looking, I don't think we were, anyways), and it wasn't the passing.

What you're looking at is the ball going to Kobe...and everyone else STANDING, 5-10 feet apart, in what looks to be more of an unknown geometric shape, rather than a triangle. Wake up, fellas...the triangle depends on movement and versatility, cutting and decision-making, passing and resetting...and you can't do a damn thing if you are 5-10 feet apart, with no movement whatsoever.

Take a look at our games in 2000, for example. The ball was moving just as much as our players were. It's not happening, and the end result is: forced shots. Simple as that. I've played enough basketball to know.

The TEAM lost this game...same with all the games we've lost...and it's the same story everytime.


Spacing or not, when your getting doubled and often tripled out there on the court you need to figure out a way to find the other two open men. I cant even count how many times I saw Lamar and Smush open near the basket and Kobe took a stupid of centered jumper.

Poor decisions are poor decisions, no ones perfect but 70 plus shots in two games is horrible, especally when your shooting like Kobe has been lately.

You are the one that can see 10 guys on the court. Can all players "see" 10 guys on the court? I don't think so.

Fact is, the spacing is horrible...which leads to forced shots and EASY double-teams, since nobody really has to leave their man. The passing lanes are closed from it...that's the entire point of the spacing, to spread the floor and have clear passing lanes. Open or not, the lanes were closed. See the Detroit Pistons Finals series.
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Postby trips on Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:34 am

:man4: if Odom can consistently play the way he played tonight :man13:
this team will be on its way to great things, LO was the lakers best player tonight

maybe then kobe wont hsve to shoot the ball plus 30 something times
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Postby dynasty4kobe on Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:44 am

If the Lakers can get the ball to Odom like they did in the 4th quarter before Kobe went on his barrage, the Lakers would easily have another 20 point scorer.
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Postby PurpleNGold1 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:47 am

dynasty4kobe wrote:If the Lakers can get the ball to Odom like they did in the 4th quarter before Kobe went on his barrage, the Lakers would easily have another 20 point scorer.
see thas the thing he has had his chances but hes always passin it out may sound like a retard here but he needs to force the issue
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Postby PurpleNGold1 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:52 am

im still 110% behind odom tho its these other people that only after 8 games into the season aer ready to jump ship
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Postby thisbjgz on Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:07 am

i hope phil teaches them a lesson, also should have a talk with kobe, im sure he will
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Postby Kobe#2 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:21 am

Here is the problem:

The offense is not being run effectively. Spacing is poor, and spacing is the third of the seven priciples of the triangle. The Lakers have no spacing, allowing teams to double team and still be able to rotate easily enough. We are quite easy to defend as long as we help the defense by making the area they have to defend smaller. You guys complain about Kobe not finding the "open" man while he's being doubled, but that is because they are not open. They are not spaced enought to be open and get shots.

KOBE is NOT the problem. He is taking many shots, but only because there is no one else to take them. He is shooting poorly because the triangle is being run ineffectively. Even as Jack Haley pointed out, Kobe was making every shot he took while he was shooting in rythme and in the flow of the offense. However, all his misses came from shooting with 1-3 seconds left on the shot clock, or when he was being defnded well and couldn't pass to an "open" man because of poor spacing. No matter who takes the shots, they are going to be bad shots because of our poor execution of te triangle. I would rather have Kobe shoot a fadaway 20 footer with 2 guys on him than Sasha, wouldn't you???

As long as we are still learning this triangle offense, we are going to struggle. As well, Kobe will continue being double and triple teamed every game until we have another scoring threat.

Be patient and let the team learn the offense, it' not easy to learn.
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Postby ShaqsPurpleSuitAfterGame5 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:31 am

not to single these guys out but mihm, kwame, and lamar gotta start converting layups. i have notice too many blown layups from these guys especially kwame :disagree:
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Postby KobeBryant42pointsathalf on Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:46 am

it bothers me so much, kobe was 12-35 but honeslty 10 of those 23 he missed , rimmed in and out, amazing, ive never seen such a thing , so many shots went half way down then up , would have had 50 and la would have won if they went it, so i have hope for future.


in last 2 games kobe has taken 71 shots, lol
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Postby KB24 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:01 am

Kobe#2 wrote:Here is the problem:

The offense is not being run effectively. Spacing is poor, and spacing is the third of the seven priciples of the triangle. The Lakers have no spacing, allowing teams to double team and still be able to rotate easily enough. We are quite easy to defend as long as we help the defense by making the area they have to defend smaller. You guys complain about Kobe not finding the "open" man while he's being doubled, but that is because they are not open. They are not spaced enought to be open and get shots.

KOBE is NOT the problem. He is taking many shots, but only because there is no one else to take them. He is shooting poorly because the triangle is being run ineffectively. Even as Jack Haley pointed out, Kobe was making every shot he took while he was shooting in rythme and in the flow of the offense. However, all his misses came from shooting with 1-3 seconds left on the shot clock, or when he was being defnded well and couldn't pass to an "open" man because of poor spacing. No matter who takes the shots, they are going to be bad shots because of our poor execution of te triangle. I would rather have Kobe shoot a fadaway 20 footer with 2 guys on him than Sasha, wouldn't you???

As long as we are still learning this triangle offense, we are going to struggle. As well, Kobe will continue being double and triple teamed every game until we have another scoring threat.

Be patient and let the team learn the offense, it' not easy to learn.

Just never blame Kobe Bryant the allmightly. Spacing is one of many problems dude. While I really like your analysis and it makes sense its not that Kobe takes every shot because nobody wants to take them. Everyone likes to take shots specially these young guys want to prove that they can play. Kobe hasn´t been smart period. Of course he has sucky teammates and he is forced to take a HUGE load on offense but missing 72 dhots in 4 games is inexcusable. No injuries, no tactic, no temamates nothing. Missing 72 shots is inexcusable and missing 44 in 2 days any day of the week and thrice sundays. its just inexcusable. turn the facts around the way you want, I´m not going to buy this. I defend Kobe is saying he has a tough time because the defense concentrates on him but you either pass or pass in those situations.
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Postby Kobe#2 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:01 am

Don't forget Kobe's hand injury. It's still ailing his shot a bit.

But if that isn't an excuse, what do you suggest he do?

Passing, while being the most obvious thing, wouldn't work any better, believe it or not. The defense simply rotates back quickly and instead of Kobe forcing a bad shot, some other Laker has to force a bad shot. Who has a better chance of making a bad forced shot!?!?
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Postby mulisha on Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:18 am

Kobe#2 wrote:Don't forget Kobe's hand injury. It's still ailing his shot a bit.

But if that isn't an excuse, what do you suggest he do?

Passing, while being the most obvious thing, wouldn't work any better, believe it or not. The defense simply rotates back quickly and instead of Kobe forcing a bad shot, some other Laker has to force a bad shot. Who has a better chance of making a bad forced shot!?!?


Finally someone who can see past the numbers
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Postby KB24 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:27 am

Kobe#2 wrote:Don't forget Kobe's hand injury. It's still ailing his shot a bit.

But if that isn't an excuse, what do you suggest he do?

Passing, while being the most obvious thing, wouldn't work any better, believe it or not. The defense simply rotates back quickly and instead of Kobe forcing a bad shot, some other Laker has to force a bad shot. Who has a better chance of making a bad forced shot!?!?

thats bot true. Lamar was hot in the 4th in this game. He had made his last 5 and should have kept shooting untill he missed. Thats exactly the point. Its not about game situations its about the way you master them. I have always said Kobe can take as many shots as he likes but only in certain situations. Not within a shooting slump. OK teammates would have failed? Then let them fail and learn. You can´t take sucky shots just because there is no better option in your mind. These are NBA players and any of them can get hot. Kobe is not playing with me and you. These guys can maybe get hot. A Brian Cook can hit 3 threes in a raw. A Smush too. Its not like they have no hands. They can take shots. And if they fail, let them at least feel that they are a part of this team. You can´t expect them to just defend and do the dirt job and pass the ball to you on offense. Thats unfair and demoralizing. We need chemistry, we need togetherness, if thats what you think is the best way to get it then I´m finished with this discussion otherwise just accept the fact tht Kobe didn´t do the right thing. Human beings make mistakes, nothing wrong with it and I´ll cheer and support Kobe next game even more than today because he obviously need support right now but I don´t want his mistakes to repeat themselves but thats something Kobe does for 10 years.
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Postby kwamejoke on Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:48 am

nameant wrote:damn phil...slap kobe. please.



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Postby GWHiZiTSPHiL on Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:55 am

ehh...good game. i liked the nice little head they had, but a couple of points.

eb didn't dominate kwame as much as i expected.

corey maggette showed his inferiority complex to kobe once again every single time he plays kobe and jacks up unnecessary 20 footers that would've gave the clippers an even bigger lead.

mid-range pull ups didn't fall that much for cassell.

kobe played mobley great, i thought it would've been nice to at least see some defensive switches from mobley to corey so he can get more open looks, or at least play him more minutes when the bench players are out.

james singleton was no where.

nevertheless, a win is a win.
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Postby KB24 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:04 am

GWHiZiTSPHiL wrote:ehh...good game. i liked the nice little head they had, but a couple of points.

eb didn't dominate kwame as much as i expected.

corey maggette showed his inferiority complex to kobe once again every single time he plays kobe and jacks up unnecessary 20 footers that would've gave the clippers an even bigger lead.

mid-range pull ups didn't fall that much for cassell.

kobe played mobley great, i thought it would've been nice to at least see some defensive switches from mobley to corey so he can get more open looks, or at least play him more minutes when the bench players are out.

james singleton was no where.

nevertheless, a win is a win.

congratulations Gwiz :jam2: you guys deserved to win it.
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Postby Lakers Dynasty 2000 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:16 am

No doubt, you can't tell me the Clipps didn't fight for it last night. They're a solid ballclub, but down the road, it's all going to hang on Livingston.

Congrats to the better team in Los Angeles... the Clipps... for now.
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Postby Lakerfan36 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:28 am

Im not looking for excuses why we lost. But i think it would be a different game if both our bigs were 100%. Did you see how weak mihm looked. There were so many times were he would take it to the basket and kaman blocked him because of mihms inability to jump at the moment. Kwame throughout the whole game would of helped us on the defensive end. Both teams played bad. The clippers gave us the whole 4th quarter to catch up with there cold shooting, and we make a push with 2 minutes left. :disagree:
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Postby hZm on Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:30 am

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Postby Lakerfan36 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:35 am



i wouldnt want to go there. You guys feel like you've just won an NBA title. The clippers and there fans look forward to beating the lakers in the regular season. The lakers and there fans are lookin for more championships.
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