Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby the best_24 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:13 pm

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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby nameant on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:15 pm

the best_24 wrote:
nameant wrote:
the best_24 wrote:with all due respect to Pau, who is he compared to Kobe?


Oh he's just the guy that made our franchise relevant again and helped Kobe get his last 2 rings.


I love Pau, but Kob did a little more than him for the franchise.


It doesn't change the fact that Kobe wouldn't have 5 rings if we didn't get Pau in a trade. You forgetting Kobe wanted to be traded prior to us getting Pau? So not only did Pau make the Lakers relevant again, brought us 2 more rings, but in reality he prevented Kobe from wanting out of LA.
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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby trodgers on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:19 pm

If you want to debate, debate. If you continue to call people "haters" or "Kobe jockers," (or equivalent terms that are baiting) I'll keep handing out warnings. Let your arguments work for you. Be respectful of all posters here, even when you think they're absolutely insane or in denial.
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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby the best_24 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:28 pm

trodgers wrote:If you want to debate, debate. If you continue to call people "haters" or "Kobe jockers," (or equivalent terms that are baiting) I'll keep handing out warnings. Let your arguments work for you. Be respectful of all posters here, even when you think they're absolutely insane or in denial.


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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby lakers_09tv on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:29 pm

So I get attacked for not worshiping Kobe. So I post this:
lakers_09tv wrote:No wonder Kobe fans have such a bad rap. Some of them are so annoying.


And I get a warning?

Nice.
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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby bystander on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:31 pm

18/14 for Pau in the last 6 games
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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby trodgers on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:31 pm

lakers_09tv wrote:So I get attacked for not worshiping Kobe. So I post this:
lakers_09tv wrote:No wonder Kobe fans have such a bad rap. Some of them are so annoying.


And I get a warning?

Nice.

If you believe someone broke the rules, flag the post. I'll investigate and get back to you. You have my word.
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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby bruddahmanmatt on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:33 pm

trodgers wrote:
bruddahmanmatt wrote:He has a point. Your post comes off as Kobe love regardless of what took place out there, and you yourself admitted that you would have "defended him anyway".

A game is 48 minutes long. I would've defended Kobe based on what he did leading up to the final minutes.


That includes defending that AWFUL three he took with about 3 1/2 min. to go in addition to a few other poor shots. The turnovers didn't help either. What you're doing is exactly what others said folks would do, ignoring all of the negative things Bryant did and only looking at the positives.

trodgers wrote:
bruddahmanmatt wrote:Thing is, just because others play poorly, it doesn't mean Bryant should get a pass.

I don't think Kobe should get a pass. He's the highest paid player on the team, and he's the highest profile player on the team. He should be analyzed and criticized. I said that Kobe didn't lose the game. That's very different from giving him a pass. Kobe didn't play a great game overall. He didn't rebound. He didn't play great D (until late in the game, and then he was awesome on two possessions). He didn't shoot particularly well. He could've hit the first FT at the end. But going 0-5 in a stretch didn't lose the game. Similarly, just one stretch from Pau didn't lose the game (he was 5-7 at one point; finished 6-15; so he finished 1-8).


All of this was missing from your previous post. Again, I CLEARLY STATED that I agreed with many of the positives points you raised, but you clearly tried to use the good things he did to mask the bad. That's not honest and objective and you aren't kidding anyone but yourself. Again, LIKE I SAID, down the stretch, he played really great right after he played really awful.

trodgers wrote:
bruddahmanmatt wrote:I agree with highlighting the positives in what he did late in a game which was only as close as it was largely because of what Bryant did (or didn't do rather) out there, but your post comes off as "homerish" when you cherry pick his stats ("six of his last 12" sounds better than "0-6 until he hit that three and that baseline jumper") and when you seemingly ignore that his ill-advised long-range three early into the clock at around 1 min. almost sealed the win for the Raps. Bryant ultimately saved a win for LA, but he was in a position to do so mainly because he had a large part in helping to put Toronto ahead. In short, "he played really good...right after he played really bad". Gotta look at bofe sides.

He didn't miss 6 in a row. He missed 5 in a row. And that was within the last 12, of which he hit six. Now if you look at his last two, he hit them both. Don't buy for a second that Kobe played "the main part" in falling behind.


He missed six in a row. Go and look at the box score. After he made the shot which brought the game to 82-76, Kobe's next six shots were as follows:

Code: Select all
Bryant Jump Shot: Missed    05:14
Bryant Running Jump Shot: Missed    04:34
Bryant Driving Reverse Layup Shot: Missed Block: Gray (1 BLK)    04:04
Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed    03:32
Bryant Jump Shot: Missed    02:56
Bryant Turnaround Fadeaway shot: Missed    02:22


During that time the only points we scored came off of a pair of FTs made by Pau on a Kobe miss. We wouldn't score again until Drew got a dunk out of a TO off of a feed from Gasol. In that time, Toronto scored 12 points...yes...12 points.

Again, you're cherry picking and only seeing what you want to see.

kray28 wrote:Must be hard for you bruddah, to accept.....but Kobe did basically win that game more or less singeghandedly in the last minute. Hits the clutch three, forces the steal, dishes a fast break assist, and then covers Calderon like glue to force the five second violation.


Do you even read what other people post? My point is pretty clear, that Bryant dug us out of a hole, but he dug us out of a hole which he helped quite a bit to put us into.
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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:42 pm

bystander wrote:18/14 for Pau in the last 6 games

Great trade bait
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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby kray28 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:42 pm

I'll agree with you that Kobe didn't have the best game evar....but please point to anyone else on the team that you'd rather have taking the shots that Kobe missed there.
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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby revgen on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:45 pm

kray28 wrote:I'll agree with you that Kobe didn't have the best game evar....but please point to anyone else on the team that you'd rather have taking the shots that Kobe missed there.


I'd rather have NONE of the players taking those shots.
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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby bruddahmanmatt on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:52 pm

kray28 wrote:I'll agree with you that Kobe didn't have the best game evar....but please point to anyone else on the team that you'd rather have taking the shots that Kobe missed there.


No one. Bryant looks SO GOOD taking shots around screens or on catch-and-shoots, so why does he have to be so stubborn and refuse to take anything that isn't a look in isolation? Why not try to do something (call for a pick, look for a big with a high % shot etc...). He has options but it's as if he refuses to use them. When he gets into the lane he still garners doubles and triples. That last second look against the Nuggets where Nene fouled Drew is the perfect example of what he's capable of doing out there. Guy drew a triple and got a WIDE OPEN dunk for Bynum, the officials just F'ed us.
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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby Finwë on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:57 pm

bruddahmanmatt wrote:
biggestkobefanever wrote:
JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote::man10: Kobe is so ****ing atrocious

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Kobe just lost us the game against the Raptors


You're embarrassing yourself right now. Kobe did a lot to get us back a win we should have ran away with, but he also did the most in helping to give away what should have been a gimme. You can leave now.

Lol I'm embarrassing myself? I can leave now? HAAAAA, people like you crack me up. You don't even realize how moronic you haters are. How miopic are you to blame Kobe for losing the lead? Let's analyse the game:

-The big lead was lost at the end of the second quarter, when Drew missed to FTs and Johnson had an uncontested dunk. We went from potentially being up 12 to being up 8.

-We were up 5 in the 3rd and Kobe put us up 11 (the raptors made a FG, while Kobe made 2 FTs, a runner, and a 3pt shot). After that, the raptors went on a 8-0 run, no point scored by the guy Kobe was guarding. During that run, Kobe took only 1 shot.

-The lakers started the 4th with Kobe on the bench. The raptors went on a 6-0 run to make it a 1 (ONE) point game until Goudelock hit a floater.
FIRTS CONCLUSION: The big first half lead turned into a 1 point lead in the 4th quarter. No argument can be made for this to be Kobe's fault.


-Kobe checked into the game with the lakers only up by 3. The raptors made 2 FTs, and Kobe responded with a 3pt shot to make it a 4 pt lead. That was his first shot of the 4th. After that 3pt shot, he scored again on a jump shot to make it a 6 pt lead.

-Lakers up 6. 6:00 in the 4th. Davis (Gasol's man) gets a wide open layup after Pau unnecessarily moves toward DeRozan (to prevent a potential post shot?) DeRozan didn't have the ball yet and Kobe was guarding him. After this, Kobe has his first miss of the 4th, Gasol grabs the rebound, misses one tip shot, grabs the rebound and misses another tip shot. The raptors get a 3pt shot from a red hot Calderon who isn't being guarded tightly enough by Blake (Calderon won't take it to the basket, get up on him, breathe down his neck).

-Here comes the one bad stretch Kobe had in the game: After gasol made 2 FTs to make it 84-81 lakers, Kobe missed 4 shots in 2 and a half minutes (one could argue he was fouled during a drive to the basket, no call.). Calderon made another 3pt shot (still guarded by Blake), Davis (Gasol's man) had a an open dunk, and Kleiza made a hook shot in the lane. Raptors up 4.
SECOND CONCLUSION: During this bad stretch, Kobe was to blame for turning a 3 pt lead into a 4 pt deficit. BUT, he wasn't the only one to blame. First of all, he isn't the only one playing defense out there and, actually, he was never scored on during that 7-0 raptor run. Blake still couldn't stop calderon, Kleiza manhandled the bigs in the paint, and the transition D was less than stellar. Second of all, he missed a couple of shots he usually makes. He didn't make them this time, can't make too much of it. When he recognized his shot hadn't been falling (in 2 minutes) he decided to take the ball to the rim, hoping for a foul that wasn't called (though it should have been). Maybe he should have waited and see if they could manage to get better looks, but with the way everyone else was playing, and the fact that Mike Brown's offense hasn't provided him with ANY open shots in the closing minutes, I really doubt the result would have been different.

This is the point went most of the posters here started to blame kobe. They even blamed him for a loss that hadn't happened yet, and that actually wasn't really his fault.

-Raptors up 4, 2:00 to go. Lakers and Raptors trade baskets: Dunk by Bynum (his SECOND basket of the half) and Calderon jump shot (still with Blake on him. At that point, it isn't Blake's fault anymore, is Mike Brown's).

-Raptors up 4, 1:00 to go. Kobe makes a big 3pt shot to bring the Lakers to within 1. Right after this, he steals the ball from Kleiza, and gives it to MWP for the open lay up. Lakers up 1. Calderon scores on blake AGAIN.

-Raptors up 1, 0:07 to go. Kobe makes an icredible shot and gives the lakers a 1 pt lead. Mike Brown puts Kobe on Calderon, who never gets free for the ball. The raptors turn it over on an inbound violation. Kobe makes a FT to put the Lakers up 2. Again Kobe is on Calderon. Again he never gets free. The ball wounds up in DeRozan's hands who can't get anything on MWP.

-Lakers win.
THIRD CONCLUSION: After a bad offensive stretch by Bryant, he makes a clutch 3pt shot, makes a key steal, gets MWP an open lay up, hits an impressive shot with 4 seconds to go that eventually becomes the game winning basket and plays very good D on Calderon who never gets the ball the entire time Kobe is on him. #24 effectively wins the game for the lakers.

FINAL CONCLUSIONS: To blame Kobe Bryant for losing a big lead and having to grind it out in the 4th quarter is miopic and in fact wrong. To blame Kobe Bryant for "losing us the game" with 2:00 to go in the 4th is incredibly shortsighted. To not recognize that Kobe was in fact the Hero of the game, despite his bad offensive stretch between the minutes 5:30 and 2:00 of the 4th is what is called or should be called "hating"
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby the best_24 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:34 pm

Lol I'm embarrassing myself? I can leave now? HAAAAA, people like you crack me up. You don't even realize how moronic you haters are. How miopic are you to blame Kobe for losing the lead? Let's analyse the game:

-The big lead was lost at the end of the second quarter, when Drew missed to FTs and Johnson had an uncontested dunk. We went from potentially being up 12 to being up 8.

-We were up 5 in the 3rd and Kobe put us up 11 (the raptors made a FG, while Kobe made 2 FTs, a runner, and a 3pt shot). After that, the raptors went on a 8-0 run, no point scored by the guy Kobe was guarding. During that run, Kobe took only 1 shot.

-The lakers started the 4th with Kobe on the bench. The raptors went on a 6-0 run to make it a 1 (ONE) point game until Goudelock hit a floater.
FIRTS CONCLUSION: The big first half lead turned into a 1 point lead in the 4th quarter. No argument can be made for this to be Kobe's fault.


-Kobe checked into the game with the lakers only up by 3. The raptors made 2 FTs, and Kobe responded with a 3pt shot to make it a 4 pt lead. That was his first shot of the 4th. After that 3pt shot, he scored again on a jump shot to make it a 6 pt lead.

-Lakers up 6. 6:00 in the 4th. Davis (Gasol's man) gets a wide open layup after Pau unnecessarily moves toward DeRozan (to prevent a potential post shot?) DeRozan didn't have the ball yet and Kobe was guarding him. After this, Kobe has his first miss of the 4th, Gasol grabs the rebound, misses one tip shot, grabs the rebound and misses another tip shot. The raptors get a 3pt shot from a red hot Calderon who isn't being guarded tightly enough by Blake (Calderon won't take it to the basket, get up on him, breathe down his neck).

-Here comes the one bad stretch Kobe had in the game: After gasol made 2 FTs to make it 84-81 lakers, Kobe missed 4 shots in 2 and a half minutes (one could argue he was fouled during a drive to the basket, no call.). Calderon made another 3pt shot (still guarded by Blake), Davis (Gasol's man) had a an open dunk, and Kleiza made a hook shot in the lane. Raptors up 4.
SECOND CONCLUSION: During this bad stretch, Kobe was to blame for turning a 3 pt lead into a 4 pt deficit. BUT, he wasn't the only one to blame. First of all, he isn't the only one playing defense out there and, actually, he was never scored on during that 7-0 raptor run. Blake still couldn't stop calderon, Kleiza manhandled the bigs in the paint, and the transition D was less than stellar. Second of all, he missed a couple of shots he usually makes. He didn't make them this time, can't make too much of it. When he recognized his shot hadn't been falling (in 2 minutes) he decided to take the ball to the rim, hoping for a foul that wasn't called (though it should have been). Maybe he should have waited and see if they could manage to get better looks, but with the way everyone else was playing, and the fact that Mike Brown's offense hasn't provided him with ANY open shots in the closing minutes, I really doubt the result would have been different.

This is the point went most of the posters here started to blame kobe. They even blamed him for a loss that hadn't happened yet, and that actually wasn't really his fault.

-Raptors up 4, 2:00 to go. Lakers and Raptors trade baskets: Dunk by Bynum (his SECOND basket of the half) and Calderon jump shot (still with Blake on him. At that point, it isn't Blake's fault anymore, is Mike Brown's).

-Raptors up 4, 1:00 to go. Kobe makes a big 3pt shot to bring the Lakers to within 1. Right after this, he steals the ball from Kleiza, and gives it to MWP for the open lay up. Lakers up 1. Calderon scores on blake AGAIN.

-Raptors up 1, 0:07 to go. Kobe makes an icredible shot and gives the lakers a 1 pt lead. Mike Brown puts Kobe on Calderon, who never gets free for the ball. The raptors turn it over on an inbound violation. Kobe makes a FT to put the Lakers up 2. Again Kobe is on Calderon. Again he never gets free. The ball wounds up in DeRozan's hands who can't get anything on MWP.

-Lakers win.
THIRD CONCLUSION: After a bad offensive stretch by Bryant, he makes a clutch 3pt shot, makes a key steal, gets MWP an open lay up, hits an impressive shot with 4 seconds to go that eventually becomes the game winning basket and plays very good D on Calderon who never gets the ball the entire time Kobe is on him. #24 effectively wins the game for the lakers.

FINAL CONCLUSIONS: To blame Kobe Bryant for losing a big lead and having to grind it out in the 4th quarter is miopic and in fact wrong. To blame Kobe Bryant for "losing us the game" with 2:00 to go in the 4th is incredibly shortsighted. To not recognize that Kobe was in fact the Hero of the game, despite his bad offensive stretch between the minutes 5:30 and 2:00 of the 4th is what is called or should be called "hating"


Why do you even bother dude?
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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby trodgers on Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:40 pm

^ Great post.
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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby Finwë on Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:05 pm

I don't know why I bother, I guess I just hate when people just say stuff without real analys.
There's always a couple of people that like to put the blame on kobe even when it's not his fault. I just can't understand that: how can you not appreciate and respect this player? How can you not realize you are truly lucky to be able to watch him play live and for your team?
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Sun. 2/12 - Lakers @ Raptors - Predictions & Comments

Postby the best_24 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:27 pm

biggestkobefanever wrote:I don't know why I bother, I guess I just hate when people just say stuff without real analys.
There's always a couple of people that like to put the blame on kobe even when it's not his fault. I just can't understand that: how can you not appreciate and respect this player? How can you not realize you are truly lucky to be able to watch him play live and for your team?


If I'll say what I think about them, I'll probably be out of this forum. I wouldn't be nice like you coz it pisses me off as well, Especially when I'm in Lakers forum, but - the hell with it.

in the end, Kobe has his best season since 2004 (numbers), its not like hes Terrible and people has the right to criticize him. so I just dont get it. hes the best scorer in the nba, over lebron james and kevin durant, good %, over 5 assist per game.. what else? :bang: Probably haters know.
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