Could Mitch piggybacks the Jerry West deal (Ellis/Iggy)?

Phil XI · by **Phil XI** on Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:41 am

Logo wants Iggy. Philly wants to move Iggy while creating ball-in-hand opportunity for Turner, but not as a SF and do not need Monta nearly as much as a Fwd or Ctr. Lakers desperately need a PG and backcourt scoring threat when Kobe is out or off. The triangle is gone which changes the need as well, penetrator p-n-r with 3 ball preferable.

Can Jerry (and Mitch) smooth over a deal with Phila where they take on Odom and LA gets Ellis and finds a solution for 22-25 mpg at backup PF?

Help finish this deal:

Phila in: Odom + ? (what other incentive would 6ers need, they get LO, big financial savings, and his team option)
out: Iggy

GSW in: Iggy, Blake (will need a b/u pg for Curry)
out: Ellis + PF ? (to make salary work.. do they have anything to offer that could help LA at PF?)

Lakers in: Ellis + PF
out: Odom, Blake

could always use the MLE on b/u PF like KMart but that is a gamble with the new CBA.

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:05 am

So Philly trades Odom for Iguodala? They'd want a whole hell of a lot more than that.

Phil XI · by **Phil XI** on Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:23 am

^ ^ Conveniently left out the 27,000,000 to 32,800,000 that the Sixers saved for a slight downgrade from Iggy to Odom while gaining the Big and the Turner room they seek, both of which were mentioned above. You must have only read the cliffs notes.

Also, asked what other incentive they would need. A pick from LA perhaps to go along with the cash savings? You tell me. Your answer was quite curt.

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:30 pm

^ I didn't intend for my response to be curt, but certainly that trade makes no sense. Igguodala is one of the better wings in the game. Odom to Igguodala is a slight downgrade? No, that's a pretty steep down grade in terms of potential and the different things those guys bring to the table.

They can get a much, much, much better deal than Odom + fillers.

Phil XI · by **Phil XI** on Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:16 pm

^ you must really undervalue Odom or overvalue Iggy.

Odom was 6moy and a sniff away from all-star calibre the season, and a steal at 8 mil. Compared to Iggy who was paid over 12 mil, and is still owed 44 mil over the next three to come.
Iggy: 14/6/6 on 45%, 34% 3s and 69% ft.
Odom: 14/8/3 on 53%, 38%, 68%

Age is the only issue, but Odom also gives you 5+ inches in height.

from nba board:
Seems LA is interested in Monta though:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... s.warriors

i guess the lakers are interested in ellis as well....

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:44 pm

Igguodala is a bona-fide second option on a team. As great as Lamar is for this team there's a reason he's not starting. He's found his role as the best 6th man in the league. Iguodala wouldn't be a 6th man for pretty much any team in the league.

Phil XI · by **Phil XI** on Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:21 pm

I cannot even argue this anymore with you when you say "bona-fide second option on a team" yet he was clearly not even the second option on a 41-41 team with no stars. 6th in shots per minute and 3rd in shots per game on that weak 500 team. Yes, he is above average on D and distributes more than the average guy for his position.... wow, sounds a whole hell of a lot like one Lamar Odom. Much like, if Iggy played on a really good team he might be their Lamar, the bench spark annual 6moy candidate who is starter capable on any day. While Lamar has "found his role" he still could start for most teams in the league due to his skill set and his contract is much much more palatable and attractive than an grossly overpaid 6'6 Wing (the easiest position in the league to fill).

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:45 am

Whatever you say. You're entitled to your opinion.

captainhoop · by **captainhoop** on Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:48 pm

I would not want Monta anywhere near the Lakers. The only Warrior I would want on the Lakers is Curry.

L4L · by **L4L** on Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:57 am

While I agree that Odom and Iguodala are basically on par as players, calling Iguodala "above average" on defense is kind of like calling Kobe an "above average" scorer.

Iguodala was arguably the best perimeter defender in all of basketball last season.

I'm one of those who is on record as not wanting Monta Ellis. He doesn't fit in a back court next to Kobe.

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:29 am

^ Imagine Iggy with Kobe? I feel like that'd just be a match made in heaven.

Or next to Rose in Chicago. Or with (fill in the dominant wing type here) in (fill in city here). I think he would really make an excellent Scottie Pippen type.

L4L · by **L4L** on Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:27 pm

therealdeal wrote:I think he would really make an excellent Scottie Pippen type.

They can fulfill a lot of similar functions, but I don't think he is a Scottie Pippen type player. He can facilitate an offense when given the ball, but he cannot create shots. He isn't a second option. He's not even a guy I'd want as a third option. He's a non-option. That is why it is so hard to utilize him offensively. How do you exploit his passing and court leadership without putting the ball in his hands? If you put the ball in his hands, how do you run an effective offense? He's easy to defend.

I think the best way to use Iguodala is to give him the leadership to a second unit while utilizing him in a Trevor Ariza type role when he is in there with the first team.

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:45 am

L4L wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I think he would really make an excellent Scottie Pippen type.

They can fulfill a lot of similar functions, but I don't think he is a Scottie Pippen type player. He can facilitate an offense when given the ball, but he cannot create shots. He isn't a second option. He's not even a guy I'd want as a third option. He's a non-option. That is why it is so hard to utilize him offensively. How do you exploit his passing and court leadership without putting the ball in his hands? If you put the ball in his hands, how do you run an effective offense? He's easy to defend.

I think the best way to use Iguodala is to give him the leadership to a second unit while utilizing him in a Trevor Ariza type role when he is in there with the first team.

I meant Scottie Pippen in that he can be the man defensively while another man picks up the mantle in other ways. Obviously, Pippen was far more of a defender and far more than just a defender, but that was my main idea as far as that idea went.

As for him being easy to shut down, I'm not quite sure it's that easy. His athleticism makes defending him hard if he plays like Trevor (respect the jumper, use the speed to slash).

I don't think he can be the second guy offensively, you're right about that. But I think he can still score effectively. He's too good to be a simple Trevor Ariza type and I think putting him in charge of a second unit would be under utilizing him to a certain extent. Namely, say you're right and he's not really a viable offensive option, then how can he run the offense with the second unit which by definitely isn't as good as the first option?

L4L · by **L4L** on Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:36 pm

Just like Trevor, there really isn't any reason to respect the jumper with Iguodala. He's an awful shooter.

Given a chance to slash against the less effective defenses in the NBA, which most second units typically are (Chicago excluded), I think he'd do just fine. If you expect him to create consistently against top notch defenses, you're just asking for 35-40% shooting performances. That has been his problem with Philly for his entire career. If he's not getting to the hole, he is completely useless offensively.

If we we want to keep things Lakers oriented, I almost see him as a fusion of Ariza and Walton. He needs a very unique role offensively to exploit all of his talents, but you don't want to give him the ball ahead of guys who are simply just better creators. That's why I think he's more apt to play heavy minutes with a second unit. You don't want to ignore the fact that he's a great play maker for his position, but you also have to acknowledge he isn't good enough to run an offense through for long stretches.

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:38 pm

^ Which is why I'd love to see him in a secondary role. That's really what I'm getting at. Put him in a role when his primary role is as the key defender next to a superstar that will score.

I don't see him as necessarily running an offense with the ball in his hand, but perpetuating whatever offense is being run and being a spark (I suppose like Ariza, like you said).

L4L · by **L4L** on Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:55 pm

Yeah, he's just a tricky guy to use for me. He has a lot of talent, but I don't like the way it is meshed together. Another player like that, at least for me, is Josh Smith. Obviously, you can always find a place for a guy like Iggy who is one of the best man defenders in the league, but it is really, really hard finding a spot for him on the offensive end.

If he could ever add a decent three-ball, he'd instantly elevate himself to that "best role player/third guy" in the league status. Maybe even second fiddle in the right situation (next to a D12 or someone like that).

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:19 am

I can definitely see where you're coming from. I've always looked at Josh Smith and thought "Damn, this guy could be a really good piece". He never seems to fit in though on the offensive end. He can't shoot consistently and he doesn't really have a go to move on that end.

I think I understand where you're coming from now. I think Iggy though can fit in better next to a guy like Derrick Rose or Kobe Bryant where he can be the "Artest +" kind of guy. Fantastic defense mixed with some offensive help. I don't think he'll ever be a great shooter, but maybe his shooting can improve next to a legitimate star?

Phil XI · by **Phil XI** on Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:25 am

^ this is what I was trying to debate with you earlier. Iggy is not a second option because he doesn't have the O repertoire. I think both of you are a bit overboard with the elite/fantastic D assessment as well, and although I probably understated it with 'above-average' I could be corrected to well-above-average. Iggy was 2nd team all-D this year barely (least votes that made it) and I would easily argue that spot should have gone to Gerald Wallace had he been on either Portland or the Cats for the entire season. Still think Iggy/Odom is equal in trade value when contract$/contract length/age/skill are all calibrated, with 'fit' (contending team, rebuilding team, etc) being the real issue.

L4L · by **L4L** on Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:11 pm

Phil XI wrote:^ this is what I was trying to debate with you earlier. Iggy is not a second option because he doesn't have the O repertoire. I think both of you are a bit overboard with the elite/fantastic D assessment as well, and although I probably understated it with 'above-average' I could be corrected to well-above-average. Iggy was 2nd team all-D this year barely (least votes that made it) and I would easily argue that spot should have gone to Gerald Wallace had he been on either Portland or the Cats for the entire season. Still think Iggy/Odom is equal in trade value when contract$/contract length/age/skill are all calibrated, with 'fit' (contending team, rebuilding team, etc) being the real issue.

http://www.depressedfan.com/basketball/ ... m-list.php

Could Mitch piggybacks the Jerry West deal (Ellis/Iggy)?

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