Sergio Rodriguez...

Postby Questionmark on Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:27 am

I agree with Sky 100%

The PGs that play in this offense don't use their skills the same way other teams' PGs do.

We need defense at the 1 first, then perimeter shooting, then natural skill. I don't think we should even draft a PG but chances are we do. We need a player we know can defend NBA point guards so that's why we should look for trades or free agency.
ImageImage
User avatar
Questionmark

 
Posts: 2896
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:10 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Postby SWOL on Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:31 am

YES, MORE MADADORS :caron:
Image
User avatar
SWOL
Separated at Birth: Ron Artest
 
Posts: 13197
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:13 am
Location: Where Brooklyn at?

Postby GCMD on Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:07 pm

Sky wrote:I defintiely believe point guards make a huge difference. Which is why I believe that we must have one that can defend. Spanish Harlem cannot.

Nash have any rings? Why is that? Parker owned him in the WCF, and Terry and Harris owned him this year. To get through the west you must get by Parker, Nash, Terry/Harris. Put Sergio out there and what chance do we have? None.


Totally missed the point (literally)...


None of those guys, in and of themselves, present a stopper-like obstacle at the 1...

Only difference was: TP had TD to help as a last line of defense last year...
Billups had the Wallaces the year before that...
JT and Harris have DIOP this year...



There is no defensive stoppers at the one...period...if Nash had Amare back healthy, you'd be talking about how JT and Harris couldn't stop NASH!!!


PG defense is only as good as the last line of defense...the new perimeter rules all but assured that...


Keep waiting for that "rainbow"...I'd suggest a Snickers because you ain't goin' anywhere...
User avatar
GCMD

 
Posts: 11124
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:24 pm

Postby GCMD on Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:11 pm

jungbum wrote:
GameCockMD wrote:
Sky wrote:I did say no defense, I just said it indirectly. No matadors por favor? Build of a 13-year-old? What do you think I was talking about Game?


My bad...

But I completely disagree about him...


Steve Nash is one of the WORST PG defenders in the league...that didn't stop him from winning TWO MVPs more than ALL DEFENSIVE NBA First team Kobe Bryant...

If you don't believe that PGs make a difference, then we really can't debate here...we have not had a leader at the 1 ever since Magic retired...

The Laker Dynasty had Kobe AND Shaq...the YOUNG Shaq!!!! And it had a bunch of veterans...

This team needs a leader...LO? Kwame? Smush? Not even close...

Kobe is more of a finisher than a leader...he can do but he can't teach or get others to his level...


Maybe I'm wrong...maybe I'm not...wanna bet another 1st round exit on it?


Suns and Lakers play different system, where in triangle seeks someone who could spot up shoot and defend well. Meanwhile, Suns..it's pretty much fast break offensive plays where offense can make up for defense. Who cares if they let the opponent score so much, when they can score back as much?


I guess you missed the 2000-2002 Lakers...if memory serves me, an over-the-hill Harper and a post-knee injury D-Fish didn't live up to your standards...no J or D from Harper...no D from D-Fish...


As you were saying?
User avatar
GCMD

 
Posts: 11124
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:24 pm

Postby GCMD on Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:13 pm

sister golden hair wrote:
Sky wrote:I defintiely believe point guards make a huge difference. Which is why I believe that we must have one that can defend. Spanish Harlem cannot.

Nash have any rings? Why is that? Parker owned him in the WCF, and Terry and Harris owned him this year. To get through the west you must get by Parker, Nash, Terry/Harris. Put Sergio out there and what chance do we have? None.


Disagree with you, Sky. This kid looks special. SPECIAL. Noine of the guys you mention play a lick of defense, either. Sign Banks with the MLE as a fireman.

But this kid gives one goosebumps.

SGH


Sky is not seeing this correctly...he thinks that Banks is going to solve our problems at PG when we STILL don't have a true last line of defense...

That is an inherently flawed assessment but he has too much hate for Laker PGs of the past to see the future...
User avatar
GCMD

 
Posts: 11124
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:24 pm

Postby GCMD on Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:16 pm

Sky wrote:SGH - Jackson is going to allow a point guard to actually BE a point guard? No. I don't care how special Rodriguez is, if Jackson won't let him use his skills then it's Sergio's liabilities that get exposed. I also seriously doubt that LA would be willing to draft a point AND use the MLE on one. They're adding just one more point guard. Therefore that point guard must defend for this team to succeed.

Parker can't defend but he doesn't have to, he has speed to stay in front of his man, Duncan and Nazr/Rasho behind him as dual shotblockers, Bowen next to him shutting his man down. Terry and Harris have Diop and Damp, Josh Howard. Sergio in LA would have zero shotblockers and Kobe. Since the Lakers have no shotblocking and their best perimeter defender is a rover the 1 that plays for this team MUST defend. It's not an option.

You want to add a matador then you have to subtract a matador first. I do not trust Kupchak or Jackson any further than I can throw them on that point. They aren't going to dump Smush or Sasha. So drafting Sergio and adding Banks? Pipe. One point guard is added. Only. Therefore NO matadors. NO MATADORS.


We need a shotblocker regardless...


You don't put the cart before the horse...spend the money on an experienced SHOTBLOCKER and find an undersized SG or a true PG to man the 1...


Don't like traditional PGs? Fine...but we need one.
User avatar
GCMD

 
Posts: 11124
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:24 pm

Postby Sky on Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:48 pm

Phil doesn't like traditional PGs and more importantly the triangle as he runs it doesn't allow them to play as traditional PGs.

I LOVE traditional point guards. But if you handcuff them it kinda defeats the purpose.

Spend the money on an experienced shotblocker. ok I'll bite. Who? Take a look at the free agent list. Pryzbilla goes for more than MLE. SA wants to keep Nazr. Borchardt hasn't been healthy for more than two weeks at a time. Ely's under 1 bpg. Kelvin Cato. Phil is going to play someone with no hands and no O skills whatsoever? There is no FA shotblocker coming to save the day.
User avatar
Sky
Clublakers Analyst
 
Posts: 6292
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:22 pm
Location: up

Postby GCMD on Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:58 pm

Sky wrote:Phil doesn't like traditional PGs and more importantly the triangle as he runs it doesn't allow them to play as traditional PGs.

I LOVE traditional point guards. But if you handcuff them it kinda defeats the purpose.

Spend the money on an experienced shotblocker. ok I'll bite. Who? Take a look at the free agent list. Pryzbilla goes for more than MLE. SA wants to keep Nazr. Borchardt hasn't been healthy for more than two weeks at a time. Ely's under 1 bpg. Kelvin Cato. Phil is going to play someone with no hands and no O skills whatsoever? There is no FA shotblocker coming to save the day.


Don't need a perfect player...we need a role player...

Remember a guy by the name of Ben Wallace? ZERO offense, 150% defense?

That's all he was called to do...


Phil likes basketball IQ...he doesn't care about man defense...


Sergio has a high basketball IQ.
Banks has a low basketball IQ.

Your contentions fail on what PHIL wants, not your personal desires...
User avatar
GCMD

 
Posts: 11124
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:24 pm

Postby Sky on Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:06 pm

What did Phil specifically ask for this summer?

Speed and defense in the backcourt.
User avatar
Sky
Clublakers Analyst
 
Posts: 6292
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:22 pm
Location: up

Postby GCMD on Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:21 pm

Sky wrote:What did Phil specifically ask for this summer?

Speed and defense in the backcourt.


And you think that he's going to ignore basketball IQ and offense entirely?


Yeah...that's NOT going to happen...dude loves his triangle...dude is not fond of Bynum's progress...


Banks could end up in a Laker uni...but he won't get us out of the 1st rnd.


Ignore interior defense and you won't survive in the playoffs...


I keep saying this with no reply...new rules = no PG stoppers...league doesn't want it...it won't happen.
User avatar
GCMD

 
Posts: 11124
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:24 pm

Postby Sky on Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:30 pm

I hope he's going to get what he finally understands he can ignore no longer. The Lakers are in ths mess because Jackson clung to the hoop iq mantra and the tri skill sets. Since Jackson arrived in LA the acquisition filter has been this exclusively:

Shoot
Hoop iq
Pass
Board

What's completely missing from that equation? The defensive absolutes. Speed, athleticism, man D, swat. Phil's played it your way for six years. Defense was ignored completely and the focus was on offense only. If not for Jimmy forcing Bynum through Phil would have had his way yet again with the drafting of Sean May.

After losing to the Suns due to a lack of the very skill sets he's ignored for so long, Jackson has finally seen the light, if his wish list is to be believed.

You and Phil have had it your way uninterrupted for six years Game. My turn. Sped, athleticism and defense finally Finally FINALLY have to be addressed.

"I keep saying this with no reply...new rules = no PG stoppers...league doesn't want it...it won't happen."

I already gave you a reply. It's wrong. New rules just mean you need speed. You have quick bigs and a point that goes over screens and recovers you CAN stop pick and roll. As for denying penetration, Banks was 5th in the league in % of fg's against inside. 22%.

I agree with you we need shotblockers as well. But as I've illustrated there are no shotblockers available in free agency.

I disagree wioth you that shotblockers are all we need. We need swats and D at 1. No D at the point and our pick and roll defense will continue to suck out loud as one of the very worst in the league. All a team has to do is run pick and roll and we're extra crispy.
User avatar
Sky
Clublakers Analyst
 
Posts: 6292
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:22 pm
Location: up

Postby Rabbit on Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:00 pm

He'd go well with Sasha :man1:
KB8@CL wrote:In Buss I trust.

User avatar
Rabbit

 
Posts: 417
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:46 pm
Location: The Cone Zone

Postby GCMD on Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:16 pm

No...I didn't say they were all we need...I said that they were more important than a defensive PG...


New rules have made it impossible to stop the offense if it's initiated from the perimeter...you have a better chance of converging on a player as he drives or on a post player trying to bang his way inside...


You are labeling me...I love defense...I wanted Larry Brown over Phil...

I've always been a BearCat fan and a HUGE fan of the defensive philosophy of Bob Huggins...



It's not what "Phil and I" want...I have NEVER agreed with Phil's personnel decisions...


I want a good basketball player...a good defensive team...

You want a symbol...to prove a point rather than play ball...



If you have a choice of:

Sam Cassell
Sergio
Banks
Duhon
Mike James

who do you pick?

Sergio who has been a pro longer than Banks and is much younger than Banks?

Cassell who brings instant leadership and cohesiveness to the team? Not to mention a lethal J?

Duhon who has the basketball IQ to run (as a backup) any team in this league?

Mike james who has proven he can put up numbers and play D?


No...you have a symbol that you swear by...any other part of basketball be damned...
User avatar
GCMD

 
Posts: 11124
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:24 pm

Postby Sky on Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:36 pm

I take Duhon over Banks. And have said so on this board.

My crusade is long before Banks. It's been going on for decades.

In recent years it was Chauncey for MLE in 2002, Nikagbatse after his performance at the Worlds in Indy, Barbosa and Banks in the draft. And wanting a 2 in Hassell when Chicago was shopping him and like you DerMarr Johnson. Each of these was scoffed at as Sky on his speed, athleticism, defense kick. Anybody want those guys now?

Shotblokcing is more important than D at 1 agreed. But if you don't have it, then D at 1 is vital. Jackson and Kucpahk ignore shotblocking so again D at 1 becomes very necessary.

The new rules have not washed away the need for defense at 1. I'll keep pointing back to pick and roll. Our team's achilles heel forever. Because either Shaq didn't show and/or we had 1's physically or mentally incapable of going over the screen and recovering.

Why do i I value D at 1 so much? Becuase every team in the league knows all they have to do is run pick and roll and the Lakers grab their ankles. I'm sick and tired of being totally helpless on the most omnipresent play in the league.

Now that we finally have bigs that show we are so close to finally being able to prevent the gimme play everyone runs on us when they need points. We just need the through the screen defender at 1 and we're there. The value of that is immense - and why I want my defender at 1 so desperately.
User avatar
Sky
Clublakers Analyst
 
Posts: 6292
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:22 pm
Location: up

Postby GCMD on Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:48 pm

Sky wrote:I take Duhon over Banks. And have said so on this board.

My crusade is long before Banks. It's been going on for decades.

In recent years it was Chauncey for MLE in 2002, Nikagbatse after his performance at the Worlds in Indy, Barbosa and Banks in the draft. And wanting a 2 in Hassell when Chicago was shopping him and like you DerMarr Johnson. Each of these was scoffed at as Sky on his speed, athleticism, defense kick. Anybody want those guys now?

Shotblokcing is more important than D at 1 agreed. But if you don't have it, then D at 1 is vital. Jackson and Kucpahk ignore shotblocking so again D at 1 becomes very necessary.

The new rules have not washed away the need for defense at 1. I'll keep pointing back to pick and roll. Our team's achilles heel forever. Because either Shaq didn't show and/or we had 1's physically or mentally incapable of going over the screen and recovering.

Why do i I value D at 1 so much? Becuase every team in the league knows all they have to do is run pick and roll and the Lakers grab their ankles. I'm sick and tired of being totally helpless on the most omnipresent play in the league.

Now that we finally have bigs that show we are so close to finally being able to prevent the gimme play everyone runs on us when they need points. We just need the through the screen defender at 1 and we're there. The value of that is immense - and why I want my defender at 1 so desperately.


Now I get it...


You don't think that we can/will get better interior defenders so you want a perimeter defender instead...

That I agree with...if they are going to ignore shotblocking and defense in the post, we have to ADD to the guys who can play D on the perimeter...I don't think it will make us a good perimeter defending team because we are likely to start LUKE at the 3...that's like tying a noose around your neck and walking around rural South Carolina with "I hate whitey" painter on your shirt...


Add TWO perimeter defenders (other being DeMarr for part of MLE or for LLE) and we are in business...work on developing Bynum as a shotblocking threat...


That I agree with...


Add Banks to a Kobe/Luke perimeter? Patch 1 hole/still leaks out the other...
User avatar
GCMD

 
Posts: 11124
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:24 pm

Postby Sky on Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:59 pm

GameCockMD wrote:Now I get it...

You don't think that we can/will get better interior defenders so you want a perimeter defender instead.


BINGO! Thanks for getting there, my bad for not making that a lot clearer.

If you don't prioritize shotblockers, and can't get them in FA this summer anyway, then it becomes imperative to get D at 1 to at least stop the bleeding. The p/r defense also improves exponentially.

Defense at 3 is being pursued, it's why they are interested in Miles and Jefferies, asked about Wallace at the deadline and are talking pipe deals with Atlanta for Josh Smith.

Much of their early rumors would indicate they don't think Luke should start either. Profit is probably coming back and he has some D skill, but they definitely need more defenders, I agree.
User avatar
Sky
Clublakers Analyst
 
Posts: 6292
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:22 pm
Location: up

Postby sister golden hair on Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:37 pm

Sky wrote:
GameCockMD wrote:Now I get it...

You don't think that we can/will get better interior defenders so you want a perimeter defender instead.


BINGO! Thanks for getting there, my bad for not making that a lot clearer.

If you don't prioritize shotblockers, and can't get them in FA this summer anyway, then it becomes imperative to get D at 1 to at least stop the bleeding. The p/r defense also improves exponentially.

Defense at 3 is being pursued, it's why they are interested in Miles and Jefferies, asked about Wallace at the deadline and are talking pipe deals with Atlanta for Josh Smith.

Much of their early rumors would indicate they don't think Luke should start either. Profit is probably coming back and he has some D skill, but they definitely need more defenders, I agree.


Jeffries has always seemed "lukewarm" to me. I think Miles has a much "livelier" body, but his head is what worries me. He would provide incredible versatility on the perimeter, more so than Jeffries in my opinion.

Let's assume they obtained Miles through whatever means. Is he enough to address the lack of shotblocking? Seems to me like Miles becomes a key acquisition because given his versatility he can help with both swatting and , on ocassion, playing D on the perimeter given his length and agility.

WOuld that provide leeway for not having a PG who was not gifted defensively? Could one live with the trade-off?

SGH
sister golden hair

 
Posts: 723
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:51 pm

Postby Sky on Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:51 pm

I don't believe so no. While Miles was a swat king for the Clips he was playing inside and has had knee trouble and added more weight since then. He had a 4 block game in November, no more than 2 in any game after that. Not a good sign.

The hidden swat guy at 3 is Outlaw. Serious hops and great length.

For the shotblocker to work they need to funnel penetration to him. You can do that with Smith and Wallace since they can play low block defensively. Not so with Miles.

They can only get away with Rodriguez and no Banks if they have an elite inside shotblocker to funnel to and a great lateral defender at 3 that can switch to the 1 defensively.
User avatar
Sky
Clublakers Analyst
 
Posts: 6292
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:22 pm
Location: up

Postby Blkhorse on Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:21 am

wait, jeffries from wash??? isnt he a PF??
Blkhorse

 
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 3:38 pm
Location: LA

Postby GCMD on Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:36 am

Sky wrote:
GameCockMD wrote:Now I get it...

You don't think that we can/will get better interior defenders so you want a perimeter defender instead.


BINGO! Thanks for getting there, my bad for not making that a lot clearer.

If you don't prioritize shotblockers, and can't get them in FA this summer anyway, then it becomes imperative to get D at 1 to at least stop the bleeding. The p/r defense also improves exponentially.

Defense at 3 is being pursued, it's why they are interested in Miles and Jefferies, asked about Wallace at the deadline and are talking pipe deals with Atlanta for Josh Smith.

Much of their early rumors would indicate they don't think Luke should start either. Profit is probably coming back and he has some D skill, but they definitely need more defenders, I agree.


I actually like all of those guys you listed...Wallace is STILL a glorified dunker IMHO but he does have some good defensive skills...

All would be an upgrade to Luke...with LO at the 4, stability at the 1/3 is a must...
User avatar
GCMD

 
Posts: 11124
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:24 pm

Postby GCMD on Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:39 am

Sky wrote:I don't believe so no. While Miles was a swat king for the Clips he was playing inside and has had knee trouble and added more weight since then. He had a 4 block game in November, no more than 2 in any game after that. Not a good sign.

The hidden swat guy at 3 is Outlaw. Serious hops and great length.

For the shotblocker to work they need to funnel penetration to him. You can do that with Smith and Wallace since they can play low block defensively. Not so with Miles.

They can only get away with Rodriguez and no Banks if they have an elite inside shotblocker to funnel to and a great lateral defender at 3 that can switch to the 1 defensively.


100% agree...outlaw is KING pipe though...that is, if POR has any sense...dude is going to be a VERY good all around player once he gets his head in the game...the black version of AK47...
User avatar
GCMD

 
Posts: 11124
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:24 pm

Postby LALShowtime on Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:42 am

Blkhorse wrote:wait, jeffries from wash??? isnt he a PF??


Sort of he started at 2, 3 and 4 during his time in Wash his position changes due to matchups because he has the quickness and the ability to guard any players ranging from a 2 to a 4.
User avatar
LALShowtime

 
Posts: 925
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:36 am
Location: VA

Previous

Return to NBA 2014 Draft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
Advertise Here | Privacy Policy | ©2008 Sculu Sports. Come Strong.