Thabo Sefolosha 6-6 213 SG Switz. 1984

Thabo Sefolosha 6-6 213 SG Switz. 1984

Postby kobesbro on Wed May 24, 2006 5:59 pm

Everyone on here is so high on this kid did the lakers give any insight that they might draft him
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Postby Sky on Thu May 25, 2006 12:19 am

They're rumored to be interested in him. But the interest list is pretty long. Sefolosha will go up or down depending on how Biella finishes the year and how Thabo does at the Treviso pre-draft camp.
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Postby bhatta on Thu May 25, 2006 3:07 am

This is the guy I want the Lakers to draft.
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Postby NormNix on Thu May 25, 2006 10:56 am

thabo thabo thabo thabo!!!
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Postby Jumaine on Fri May 26, 2006 2:39 am

No to Thabo. Orien Greene part 2.

In the NBA he won't have a physical advantage over other players and that will really hurt his game.
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Postby TaniBoyz on Fri May 26, 2006 4:41 am

Draft Thabo Sefolosha and James White :jam2:

Do It Mitch :jam2:
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Postby GCMD on Fri May 26, 2006 7:37 am

I'm not impressed by what I've read...haven't seen him so take that with a grain of salt...


6'7 guy with average athleticism and can't shoot off the dribble? not really seeing the potential some are seeing...


Heard he's a good defender but so is a more athletic Bobby Jones, who we can get as a 2nd rnder...he's actually faced better competition also...

Unless he's guaranteed to be Bruce Bowen, I'd say pass...
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Postby trodgers on Fri May 26, 2006 10:32 am

GameCockMD wrote:Unless he's guaranteed to be Bruce Bowen, I'd say pass...
It would be difficult to field one division, much less a conference in the NBA if guys who didn't live up to Bowen's defensive prowess were just passed over.

His offensive game seems to have improved greatly since last season, not a bad rebounder, improving in every aspect of his game actually.
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Postby A Rush on Fri May 26, 2006 11:13 am

GameCockMD wrote:
Unless he's guaranteed to be Bruce Bowen, I'd say pass...


Nothing guaranteed but I'd say that you've already mentioned one player who could be the next Bruce Bowen. Bobby Jones. And I want him badly (in a non-sexual sort of way ;)).
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Postby trodgers on Fri May 26, 2006 11:24 am

A Rush wrote:
GameCockMD wrote:
Unless he's guaranteed to be Bruce Bowen, I'd say pass...


Nothing guaranteed but I'd say that you've already mentioned one player who could be the next Bruce Bowen. Bobby Jones. And I want him badly (in a non-sexual sort of way ;)).

That's interesting...DraftExpress says that Bobby Jones at best would be Bruce Bowen / at worst Stacey Augmon. For Thabo, they say Josh Howard / Trenton Hassell.

Trenton Hassell worst case scenario? Stacey Augmon worst case scenario? I don't know about that. These guys aren't even going in the first round of some (or many) mock drafts. Sounds like flattery.
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Postby zetaw00d on Fri May 26, 2006 2:56 pm

Draft Express: Sefolosha has good size for an NBA shooting guard at 6-7 (200 centimeters) with a very nice wingspan. He’s a smooth athlete, not incredibly explosive, but clearly possessing necessary NBA physical attributes, similar to Brandon Roy in this area. He’s a fluid player, highly coordinated, fundamentally sound, with nice quickness, a good first step and excellent leaping ability.

Sefolosha is a physical player who likes to mix it up and get dirty, not being soft in the least bit like your stereotypical European draft prospect is perceived to be. At Biella he will often have to switch out and guard big men in the post at times on rotations and will absolutely refuse to let anyone back him down.

Playing in the very strong Italian first division, Sefolosha is always asked to defend the opposing team’s best player. He has shown throughout the season that he can face-guard players from positions 1-3 without any problems at all. He is extremely intense on this end of the floor, being very pesky and getting right up in his man’s face on the perimeter. On team defense he is just as good, having the athleticism and feel for the game to know how to guard space and get the job done on rotations and pick and rolls. Defensively he is aided greatly by his terrific footwork, but also by his quickness, wingspan and intelligent style of play. Sefolosha is a true stat-stuffer, blocking shots, getting in the passing lanes, and enjoying doing all the little things for his team.

His best attribute surprisingly enough might be his rebounding ability. Sefolosha has phenomenal hands and timing, so his aggressive demeanor, activity level and wingspan help him out greatly in this area. He’s got a great nose for the ball and takes plenty of pride in this area as he’s more of a small forward at the European level anyway. Often times he’ll crash the glass and ignite the fast break on his own


If most of this is true... He should be a steal at the 26th!!!
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Postby rydjorker121 on Fri May 26, 2006 5:58 pm

I see him as sort of like a Josh Howard player, a very intense player who can rebound and especially defend, as well as being very long and quite athletic. He also unselfishness and point guard skills as a bonus as well, which makes him all the more intriguing. I value his versatility and aggressiveness combination, most versatile players have either/or and that gives him a lot of potential. His stock is all over the board right now, but I have a feeling he's solidified his spot somewhere in the 1st round because his intriguing abilities are just too hard to pass up. Josh Howard turned out to be a steal, and I think, given the proper environment and grooming (which the Laker offense provides), Sefolosha may be one as well. He fits our team needs both in terms of the Triangle and defensively.
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Postby Freakout on Fri May 26, 2006 7:29 pm

Jumaine wrote:No to Thabo. Orien Greene part 2.

In the NBA he won't have a physical advantage over other players and that will really hurt his game.


If thats the case draft him please.
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Postby NormNix on Fri May 26, 2006 11:14 pm

I haven't seen one legitimate alternative to realistically get at 26 that makes us more atheletic on the perimeter defensively and has the skill set and size that would actually get him playing time under Phil Jackson.

So far, the other names I've seen represent the following:

1) undersized bigs

2) pgs who are probably not on the level of the pg class from last year and more than likely not going to play under Phil Jackson

3) overrated workout studs

4) Lottery or close to lottery players who are out of reach.

forgive me for not liking those choices. I prefer a guy who can defend 3 positions and finish. With that said, I do like Ager.
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Postby A Rush on Sat May 27, 2006 12:49 am

k0pr0phage wrote:
A Rush wrote:
GameCockMD wrote:
Unless he's guaranteed to be Bruce Bowen, I'd say pass...


Nothing guaranteed but I'd say that you've already mentioned one player who could be the next Bruce Bowen. Bobby Jones. And I want him badly (in a non-sexual sort of way ;)).

That's interesting...DraftExpress says that Bobby Jones at best would be Bruce Bowen / at worst Stacey Augmon. For Thabo, they say Josh Howard / Trenton Hassell.

Trenton Hassell worst case scenario? Stacey Augmon worst case scenario? I don't know about that. These guys aren't even going in the first round of some (or many) mock drafts. Sounds like flattery.


Yeah, it does. But you also have to realize that someone like Bruce Bowen was never drafted. He was just one-dimensional defender who couldn't shoot. Sounds very similar to Bobby Jones. Bowen became the Bowen we know now by really working his butt off. By all accounts Bobby Jones has great work ethic too. Every one who has seen him has commented on his superior defensive abilities. The guy has shut-down defender written all over him. And that's all he will be at first. What you gamble on is that he has the work ethic to improve his jumper like Bowen. If he does, he has all the physical attributes to be a Bruce Bowen type player. I'd take that gamble on a second round pick.

As for Sefolosa, is he worth 1st round pick? I don't know. Everybody complains about how soft Euro ball is and yet they fall all over a palyer who is praised for playing good D in an European league. Would his D translate to the NBA? Who knows. Fact is, he is playing for 2nd tier Euro ball club which tells you little really. He might be worth drafting in the 1st round, he might not. Personally, I'd rather go for someone like Rondo or Ager with #26.
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Postby trodgers on Sat May 27, 2006 8:41 am

A Rush wrote:Yeah, it does. But you also have to realize that someone like Bruce Bowen was never drafted. He was just one-dimensional defender who couldn't shoot. Sounds very similar to Bobby Jones. Bowen became the Bowen we know now by really working his butt off. By all accounts Bobby Jones has great work ethic too. Every one who has seen him has commented on his superior defensive abilities. The guy has shut-down defender written all over him. And that's all he will be at first. What you gamble on is that he has the work ethic to improve his jumper like Bowen. If he does, he has all the physical attributes to be a Bruce Bowen type player. I'd take that gamble on a second round pick.

As for Sefolosa, is he worth 1st round pick? I don't know. Everybody complains about how soft Euro ball is and yet they fall all over a palyer who is praised for playing good D in an European league. Would his D translate to the NBA? Who knows. Fact is, he is playing for 2nd tier Euro ball club which tells you little really. He might be worth drafting in the 1st round, he might not. Personally, I'd rather go for someone like Rondo or Ager with #26.

Thabo seems to have all the upside that you're touting for Jones (who doesn't sound bad at all): he is already a hard worker defensively, likes to guard the best player, rates his defensive ability as one of his best attributes. At the same time, he has already shown that he's working hard in other areas, by improving his shot significantly from two seasons ago to last season.
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Postby A Rush on Sat May 27, 2006 10:07 am

k0pr0phage wrote:
A Rush wrote:Yeah, it does. But you also have to realize that someone like Bruce Bowen was never drafted. He was just one-dimensional defender who couldn't shoot. Sounds very similar to Bobby Jones. Bowen became the Bowen we know now by really working his butt off. By all accounts Bobby Jones has great work ethic too. Every one who has seen him has commented on his superior defensive abilities. The guy has shut-down defender written all over him. And that's all he will be at first. What you gamble on is that he has the work ethic to improve his jumper like Bowen. If he does, he has all the physical attributes to be a Bruce Bowen type player. I'd take that gamble on a second round pick.

As for Sefolosa, is he worth 1st round pick? I don't know. Everybody complains about how soft Euro ball is and yet they fall all over a palyer who is praised for playing good D in an European league. Would his D translate to the NBA? Who knows. Fact is, he is playing for 2nd tier Euro ball club which tells you little really. He might be worth drafting in the 1st round, he might not. Personally, I'd rather go for someone like Rondo or Ager with #26.

Thabo seems to have all the upside that you're touting for Jones (who doesn't sound bad at all): he is already a hard worker defensively, likes to guard the best player, rates his defensive ability as one of his best attributes. At the same time, he has already shown that he's working hard in other areas, by improving his shot significantly from two seasons ago to last season.


First of all, Sefolosa won't drop to #51. He'll very likely be a first round pick so it's not like the two are competing for the same draft pick (Jones will be a 2nd round pick for sure). We can draft Sefolosa with #26 and Jones with #51.

2nd of all, Sefolosa thus far has only been playing good D against 2nd tier Euro talent who by and large isn't very athletic or fast. Let's see first how he does against American athletes, shall we? As far as I know his team doesn't play in the Euroleague so he hasn't exactly been facing top Euro talent in big games. A lot of players can look good against that kind of inferior competition. If he shows he can hang, though, I have no problem drafting him. I'd just like us to get Bobby Jones in the 2nd round. He's sort of my pet project this year. ;)
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Postby Sky on Sat May 27, 2006 12:58 pm

Sefolosha plays for Biella, they're in Serie A in Italy, play Benetton Treviso among others. Not the Euroleague, but it's the highest of the second tier.

Based on the videos that I've seen, and a scouting report from a friend of mine in Europe, Sefolosha has a lot of tools - speed, athleticism, quick hops, good handles and vision, cuts well, effective slasher/finisher. His shot was suspect not that long ago but he's made great strides in the past year and is now 41% from Euro 3.

While it's true that he'll take the opposition's best man, his D is not there yet. He's effective in creating steals but lacks the upper body strength and guns for the NBA. He will need a LOT of body work to be an effective defender in the league. But he has the length and quickness to generate steals and grab a lot of boards. His primary strength is his versatility.

Compared to the American swignmen he has more polish as a ballhandler, passer, rebounder and slasher/finisher in the halfcourt. Keep in mind that Biella's coach is known for a defensive focus, so Thabo has the necessary ethic for defense, he's not another Euro turnstile a la Miss Sasha.
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Postby Podium on Sat May 27, 2006 1:03 pm

Who would you equate him to in the league right now Sky?
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Postby A Rush on Sat May 27, 2006 3:33 pm

Sky wrote:Sefolosha plays for Biella, they're in Serie A in Italy, play Benetton Treviso among others. Not the Euroleague, but it's the highest of the second tier.

Based on the videos that I've seen, and a scouting report from a friend of mine in Europe, Sefolosha has a lot of tools - speed, athleticism, quick hops, good handles and vision, cuts well, effective slasher/finisher. His shot was suspect not that long ago but he's made great strides in the past year and is now 41% from Euro 3.

While it's true that he'll take the opposition's best man, his D is not there yet. He's effective in creating steals but lacks the upper body strength and guns for the NBA. He will need a LOT of body work to be an effective defender in the league. But he has the length and quickness to generate steals and grab a lot of boards. His primary strength is his versatility.

Compared to the American swignmen he has more polish as a ballhandler, passer, rebounder and slasher/finisher in the halfcourt. Keep in mind that Biella's coach is known for a defensive focus, so Thabo has the necessary ethic for defense, he's not another Euro turnstile a la Miss Sasha.


I like the sound of that.

But do we really need another versatile player? I know it is a valuable commodity but I am really growing sick and tired of the "versatility". I'm probably too old-fashioned but to me versatility more often than not means the player can't do anything remarkably well. Like Odom for instance. Jack of all trades, master of none. I just think you win with players who can really play one position (two at best) masterfully well. I'm frankly tired of small forwards who want to play like PGs, who fill the stat sheet but have little impact on the game because they are so busy flying all over the court trying to do everything.

I have no problem having one player like that. And we have him in Odom for better or worse We have another versatile player in Kobe. For once, I'd like us to have role players who just focus on one or two things and do those two things extremely well. I'm tired of players with ability to play multiple positions "just" well. I'm tired of tweeners. Find players who can play one position extremely well and you did a better job IMO. I don't want us to become another Phoenix Suns team simply because I don't think it is ultimately effective. Sure, it looks great but it doesn't win rings. At least it hasn't so far.

As I said, I'm a bit old fashioned that way. I just want us to for once get some players who can play one position extremely well. No flashy tweeners, no supermen with the ability to play 17 different positions, no wingmen who want to be PGs. Just honest to goodness basketball players with work ethic, skills and most importantly personal vision and dedication to master their one chosen freaking position on the court.

Anyway, I guess my real problem with drafting Sefolosa is where is he going to play? His ideal/best position would be SG. We already got Kobe who will play 38-40 mpg. At SF we have Lamar. You simply have to take into consideration that we are building around a shooting guard. We're not Mavs who built around a PF in Nowitzki. Someone like Howard was the perfect fit in that scenario, Sefolosa less so. To me, he seems just like another role player between positions who (if we draft him) will never get to play the one he is most suited for. Not an optimal pick, that's for sure.

Things being what they are, I'd much rather draft a PG like Rondo/Lowry/Shannon Brown at #26. Maybe even someone like Sene. But that's just me.
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Postby trodgers on Sat May 27, 2006 3:38 pm

Sefolosha would probably be a SF in the NBA. Odom is probably our PF, it seems.
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Postby A Rush on Sat May 27, 2006 5:10 pm

k0pr0phage wrote:Sefolosha would probably be a SF in the NBA. Odom is probably our PF, it seems.


Good god, no. That's just about the worst scenario imaginable. Especially Odom at PF. You'd have a SF who wants to handle the ball, PF who wants to handle the ball, Kobe at SG who wants to handle the ball and PG who wants to handle the ball. Might as well trdae Kwame for Boris Diaw and have a center, too, who wants to handle the ball.

But that's precisely what I'm talking about. Damn Pippen and Grant Hill and damn the whole point-forward invention. I want a team where PG and Kobe handle the rock and penetrate, SF spots up and defends, PF has the ability to shoot 15-footers and bangs in the paint and center who is an actual defensive anchor and not totally inept on O. Hmm... It seems I actually want the Spurs team. ;)
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Postby trodgers on Sat May 27, 2006 6:29 pm

A Rush wrote:Good god, no. That's just about the worst scenario imaginable. Especially Odom at PF. You'd have a SF who wants to handle the ball, PF who wants to handle the ball, Kobe at SG who wants to handle the ball and PG who wants to handle the ball. Might as well trdae Kwame for Boris Diaw and have a center, too, who wants to handle the ball.
It really depends on the lineup. If it's Banks at the 1 and Thabo at the 2, then remove their names. Neither seems to be ball-dominant in the least. Kobe and Odom seem to have their issues about ball control worked out also. I like the idea of having guys who CAN handle the ball if the problem arises, but who don't need it all the time to function.

But that's precisely what I'm talking about. Damn Pippen and Grant Hill and damn the whole point-forward invention. I want a team where PG and Kobe handle the rock and penetrate, SF spots up and defends, PF has the ability to shoot 15-footers and bangs in the paint and center who is an actual defensive anchor and not totally inept on O. Hmm... It seems I actually want the Spurs team. ;)
Because the triangle is so ineffective? That's just fetishism, wanting to force a team that fits into these general guidelines.
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Postby trodgers on Sat May 27, 2006 6:30 pm

For the record, I'd take LA's championship teams or the Bulls' championship teams over the Spurs' championship team any day.
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Postby A Rush on Sun May 28, 2006 1:50 am

k0pr0phage wrote:For the record, I'd take LA's championship teams or the Bulls' championship teams over the Spurs' championship team any day.


You mean the LA championship teams where we had one great ball handler (Kobe), a SF who focused on defending and shooting (Fox), banger power forwards with little versatility (Green, Grant, Walker; Horry was an exception but he was mostly used off the bench) and a center who was a defensive anchor and only played inside? Those LA teams were a lot like the Spurs team in that you didn't have a ton of versatile players who can play 3-4 positions. You just had players who could play one position extremely well + one player who could do multiple things in Kobe. The only bit of versatility was at PG and SG (when we still had Harp). Other than that, every player played his designated position and the team was better off for it.

Even the Bulls - apart from Pippen - were a very conventional team. And even Pippen was "only" a small forward who could handle the ball. He was no tweener.

I'm just sick and tired of tweeners. Combo guards in the Tri I can take (SGs playing PG). Small forwards should stick to being small forwards, though. Same goes for PFs. And we should build a team accordingly.
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