2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Who would you draft?

2006 Kobe
43
81%
2012 LeBron
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Total votes : 53

Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby Rooscooter on Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:23 pm

KJ MonK wrote:
Rooscooter wrote::man3: Did I miss New Years?.....
.


:man11: i realized that if I said "2012 LeBron" that'd be equivalent to 2005 Kobe (who was 3rd team all-NBA), we always use the latter year (unlike football) so I was just trying to be more exact lol


No problem.... I was just being a smart a**.... however I've missed New Years day many times..... but never New Year's Eve...... :man1:
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby therealdeal on Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:53 pm

V1n5anity wrote:Had an argument like this before. My friend said LeBron is the better defender, rebounder, passer, finisher, shoots a higher FG%. Kobe is only a better scorer and a better clutch player (as is Carmelo when compared to LeBron).

What's a good reply to that?

Better defender now maybe, not in Kobe's prime he was a terrific perimeter defender. He wasn't as big as LeBron is either which makes it more impressive.

Of course LeBron is a better rebounder, he's bigger, stronger, and more athletic than Kobe ever was. Let's compare Dikembe Mutumbo's rebounding to Carlos Boozer while we're at it. One is bigger, taller, and more athletic than the other. Of course he'll have an advantage.

LeBron is a more willing passer than Kobe, I wouldn't call it better. Kobe's mindset is different. He wants to shoot first, second, sometimes third, and probably the fourth time too. LeBron wants to pass first, pass second, shoot the third, and the fourth is a toss. Different players, different mindsets. That doesn't mean he's a BETTER passer than Kobe. Kobe CAN make brilliant passes, he just doesn't do it very often.

Finishing and shooting a higher FG% is almost a given. Kobe's smaller and plays a wing position. LeBron gets the vast majority of his points from attacking with his giant frame. Kobe gets most of his points from the field. If you compare most guards to most forwards, the forwards will have a higher FG%. Of course he's able to finish easier around the rim, he's bigger and stronger physically. But if you're looking at prime Kobe, he was still more than capable of finishing at the rim or the line.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:24 am

therealdeal wrote:
V1n5anity wrote:Had an argument like this before. My friend said LeBron is the better defender, rebounder, passer, finisher, shoots a higher FG%. Kobe is only a better scorer and a better clutch player (as is Carmelo when compared to LeBron).

What's a good reply to that?

Better defender now maybe, not in Kobe's prime he was a terrific perimeter defender. He wasn't as big as LeBron is either which makes it more impressive.

Of course LeBron is a better rebounder, he's bigger, stronger, and more athletic than Kobe ever was. Let's compare Dikembe Mutumbo's rebounding to Carlos Boozer while we're at it. One is bigger, taller, and more athletic than the other. Of course he'll have an advantage.

LeBron is a more willing passer than Kobe, I wouldn't call it better. Kobe's mindset is different. He wants to shoot first, second, sometimes third, and probably the fourth time too. LeBron wants to pass first, pass second, shoot the third, and the fourth is a toss. Different players, different mindsets. That doesn't mean he's a BETTER passer than Kobe. Kobe CAN make brilliant passes, he just doesn't do it very often.

Finishing and shooting a higher FG% is almost a given. Kobe's smaller and plays a wing position. LeBron gets the vast majority of his points from attacking with his giant frame. Kobe gets most of his points from the field. If you compare most guards to most forwards, the forwards will have a higher FG%. Of course he's able to finish easier around the rim, he's bigger and stronger physically. But if you're looking at prime Kobe, he was still more than capable of finishing at the rim or the line.


It doesn't matter what the reasons are for one player being better at another at something, the result is what matters.

LeBron is a better defender now than Kobe ever was. Kobe really only had a few elite defensive years back in the early 2000s and then some good ones from 06-09 but never really anything on LeBron's level. LeBron can basically defend 1-5 so his versatility makes him way more valuable defensively.

Yes Kobe is a really amazing playmaker, but he doesn't have the court vision LeBron has. LeBron's is almost Magic'esque. He can also pass out of the post really well because of his height.

And again LeBron is more efficient than Kobe at the end of the day, regardless of how the points come. LeBron's jump shot went to hell in the Finals and he was still able to average like 28 points on good efficiency.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby Weezy on Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:03 am

Kobe was an amazing defender in his prime and earlier years when he wanted to be. Just go back and look at a game like game 7 of the 2000 WCF to see an example, he guarded like 5 different Blazers that game, Stoudemire, Pippen, Wells, maybe a few others I forget. I disagree that LeBron now is a better defender than Kobe ever was, just because of how many positions he can guard. NBA ball was tougher back then, defense was more physical, there were tons of crafty veterans playing on fantastic teams, and Kobe was great at defense. I honestly think the talent pool is weaker now and LeBron plays and defends a lot of crap players and weak teams. Nothing against him, you play who you play, but that's how I feel.

As far as offense goes I also take prime Kobe. Guy was unstoppable, could score from absolutely anywhere on the floor, hit 3's from the parking lot, footwork in the post was amazing, added the bank shot, had the fadeaway on automatic, could still slash to the hoop, just incredible. LeBron has power, and he has improved shooting, not much else, his athleticism has been most of his scoring for most of his career. So yes, both great players, but prime Kobe was on another level.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby v1n5anity on Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:20 am

Weezy wrote:Kobe was an amazing defender in his prime and earlier years when he wanted to be. Just go back and look at a game like game 7 of the 2000 WCF to see an example, he guarded like 5 different Blazers that game, Stoudemire, Pippen, Wells, maybe a few others I forget. I disagree that LeBron now is a better defender than Kobe ever was, just because of how many positions he can guard. NBA ball was tougher back then, defense was more physical, there were tons of crafty veterans playing on fantastic teams, and Kobe was great at defense. I honestly think the talent pool is weaker now and LeBron plays and defends a lot of crap players and weak teams. Nothing against him, you play who you play, but that's how I feel.

As far as offense goes I also take prime Kobe. Guy was unstoppable, could score from absolutely anywhere on the floor, hit 3's from the parking lot, footwork in the post was amazing, added the bank shot, had the fadeaway on automatic, could still slash to the hoop, just incredible. LeBron has power, and he has improved shooting, not much else, his athleticism has been most of his scoring for most of his career. So yes, both great players, but prime Kobe was on another level.


The reason I agree that LeBron is a better defender than Kobe ever was is because of help defense. On-ball D was pretty similar between the two players and one could definitely argue Kobe was better at that...but it's close. When you look at help D, there's really no contest, LeBron blows Kobe out of the water.

Also, @realdeal, I agree with JoelMyers, it doesn't matter WHAT makes LeBron better at sometimes, the fact is he is better at it (rebounding/defence/passing).

Also, LeBron is a better passer than Kobe for 3 reasons. 1) He's a more willing passer and 2) he's a more accurate passer and 3) he has better court vision. It doesn't matter if Kobe is less willing or he CAN be a good passer...the fact still remains that he's not as good as a passer.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby therealdeal on Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:47 am

You asked for the arguments and I gave them.

For it to not matter... okay. :man10:

He's a better physical specimen than Kobe Bryant, so I guess he's better? Kobe in his prime is still better LeBron James. I will defend that until the day that I die.

I guess because Wilt was more athletic than Kareem, he's better. It doesn't matter if one or the other is more talented because Wilt was bigger and stronger and that allowed him to do more things. Nevermind Kareem is the better winner and scorer right?

LeBron is the better rebounder and passer. So is Larry Bird. Larry Bird > Kobe Bryant.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby v1n5anity on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:06 am

therealdeal wrote:You asked for the arguments and I gave them.

For it to not matter... okay. :man10:


It's not that they don't matter, but everything you said I HAVE said in arguments against LeBron fans. They will always say the same thing that it doesn't matter what makes LeBron better at something, all that matters is the end result that LeBron is better. Again, I'm asking for arguments I can use to stump them. I believe 06 Kobe > 13 LeBron, but I get in arguments all the time and need some material. :man10:

He's a better physical specimen than Kobe Bryant, so I guess he's better? Kobe in his prime is still better LeBron James. I will defend that until the day that I die.

I guess because Wilt was more athletic than Kareem, he's better. It doesn't matter if one or the other is more talented because Wilt was bigger and stronger and that allowed him to do more things. Nevermind Kareem is the better winner and scorer right?

LeBron is the better rebounder and passer. So is Larry Bird. Larry Bird > Kobe Bryant.


Well LeBron isn't just a better rebounder and passer, he's also a better defender. If Larry was a better defender than Kobe, then most would say Larry > Kobe.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby therealdeal on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:30 am

If someone you're arguing against says that your argument doesn't matter, they're doing an awful job arguing.

Person 1: "I like the thousand island dressing more than ranch because-"
Person 2: "It doesn't matter."

That's just a poor argument. Next time they say it doesn't matter, then you say "okay well the fact that he's a better rebounder doesn't matter then because he's a SF/PF and not a SG".

Sidenote: relative to his position, Kobe is an EXCELLENT rebounder.

I still maintain that Kobe in his prime defensively could hold his own against any 1-3 in the league. All things relative, that is more impressive to me than a man who's physically bigger and stronger and can defend 1-4. LeBron cannot guard Dwight Howard or Andrew Bynum (the only real Centers left), so let's not pretend he's a 1-5 guy.

Again, we're comparing two different positions in basketball. Let's just say Chris Paul is better than prime Kobe Bryant too because he's got much better passing and court vision. Or Dirk Nowitzki is better than Kobe Bryant because he's taller.

Same thing.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby Forklift on Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:56 pm

Just tell your friends if prime Kobe and Lebron were to go 1 on 1 who would win and remind them that Kobe was guarding the likes of T-Mac in his prime who is longer than Lebron. They are asking for the better player right? When my friends tell me they are better than me i challenge them to 1 on 1 games if they win then they are better if i win then ****. If they talk about Lebron being the better "Team" player than ask them who has more rings as a "Team" Lebron at 27 or Kobe at 27? Then if they talk about all the better "stats" just tell them i rather have a better team player and a better player then a stats hog.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby Finwë on Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:49 pm

Chris Palmer, who's done nothing but inhale LeBron's jock strap for the past years, said that prime Kobe (defensively) was a better perimeter defender than LeBron AND MJ. People forget how amazing Kobe's defensive ability was in his defensive prime. Complete lockdown defender. LeBron's defensive advantage is purely his size and speed, while Kobe has waay better defensive fundamentals, not to mention in his prime he was a far better 1 on 1 defender than LeBron, who's strength has always been help defense, even if he's improved his man D.
Same goes for rebounding, it's just random size, but as realdeal pointed out, for a guy in his position Kobe's a very good rebounder, and that has to do less with freakish athleticism and more with fundamentals and IQ.

I've had this argument many times before (particulary with you once V1n5anity), there are many criterias for "better". Are we talking perceived statistical production? Are we talking skills? Are we talking achievements? Because as the criteria changes so do the arguments, vastly. Prime Kobe, SKILL-wise (which is my personal preference as a criteria to determine who's "better") trumps current LeBron. He just does. Before you answer, you should go back at that discussion we were having in some thread about LeBron vs others skill-wise, I posted a pretty lengthy explanation of what skills in sports mean unlike what you suggested.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby Scnottaken on Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:03 pm

I view LeBron as the jack of many trades (not all, because there are very obvious flaws in his game), but if you're going to have a team around someone, then you've gotta go with Kobe. What he does, he does better than anyone, and that's score. Sure, LeBron can pass, but that's what a PG's for. He may rebound better, but when you've got a Dwight Howard on your team, he's not going to get many chances. In a well constructed, balanced team, his many trades are going to be diminished due to others who have focused on one part of the game. I mean, as with the case of many other things, there comes a point of diminishing returns. Besides, there's no guarantee that LeBron is going to remain elite for 6 more years.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby revgen on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:53 pm

V1n5anity wrote:Had an argument like this before. My friend said LeBron is the better defender, rebounder, passer, finisher, shoots a higher FG%. Kobe is only a better scorer and a better clutch player (as is Carmelo when compared to LeBron).

What's a good reply to that?


Lebron is not a better individual defender than prime Kobe. He's a better rebounder (he should be, he's 6'9) and a better passer. And Kobe, despite being smaller, is a better postup player than Lebron, which is frankly embarrassing considering Lebron's physical size and stature.

Part of being a star is being to respond in pressure situations. Lebron, until last season, didn't do a great job of being reliable under pressure. Nothing against Lebron, but if I want rebounding and passing, I'll pickup some PG's and some bigs to do that. Give me a guy who can put the ball in the basket from anywhere on the floor and do it under pressure.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby OX1947 on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:58 pm

I only pick MJ in 1989 over Kobe in 2006. MJ was 35-8-8 and shot 53.8 pct. It wasn't even an MVP year, Magic won that year. However, 35-8-8 and 53% from the field from a guard is nasty ridiculous.

Hakeem in 1994, Shaq in 2000, Wilt in 1962 are years that come to mind also as far as amazing single seasons. But comparing centers and perimeter players isn't realistic. Different games, different scenarios.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby Maluco Beleza on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:58 pm

Rooscooter wrote::man3: Did I miss New Years?.....

Smart A** comments aside.... LeBron is like no one that's ever played IMHO.... there really isn't much he can't do on the court. He's a stat machine and has added to his game in recent years. As far as a skilled basketball talent he's the best I've ever seen on an all around basis.

However...... his mental approach/make-up is where he falls way short of a Kobe Bryant. Kobe doesn't believe that there is anything he can't do..... ever. That makes an incredible talent like Kobe into one of the top 3 players/winners I've ever seen play.



Agree.... Kobe was great that year but also jacked alot of shots up.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby KJ MonK on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:59 pm

Scnottaken wrote: then you've gotta go with Kobe. What he does, he does better than anyone, and that's score. Sure, LeBron can pass, but that's what a PG's for. He may rebound better, but when you've got a Dwight Howard on your team, he's not going to get many chances.


I originally had the thought that LeBron was easier to construct a team around because he covers so many bases with his size and skill set, you can literally pick any position 2nd to go with him... but that was a great point
lebron doesnt do any one thing better than any1 in history that can't be gameplanned against or slowed down with age
i just trust kobe more than lebron at the end of the day
in an all-time draft, you're have a better chance replacing what lebron does with other players that do it just as well than what Kobe does (cause you won't get jordan)
but yea it looks like the question basically should be "Will 2018 LeBron be as effective as 2012 Kobe?" since it's who you want on your team
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby KJ MonK on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:17 pm

Have opinions changed in light of the MVP season/2nd ring for LeBron?
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:39 pm

LeBron had one of the most dominant seasons EVER in 2012. His efficiency was off the charts and he took over games in the playoffs and destroyed the notion that he can't be clutch and win the big one.

LeBron is also a better defender than Kobe. I always felt that Kobe's D was overrated. He had some great years early in his career but he has been piggy backing off of that reputation for years. LeBron can guard 1-5 and his help defense is out of this world. Now in terms of on the ball defense it's close. But overall, when you look at everything, it's not really close. LeBron is one of the best defenders ever.

Kobe was one of the best offensive talents ever in 2006 but he was not willing to win. He just wanted to get his because he knew he had no chance of winning a ring. So he just got his. As many of you Kobe fans mentioned in this thread, he took difficult shots over double teams time and time again. That's not how you win rings. Not until 2008, when we got Gasol, did he actually go back to trying to win again.

2012 LeBron won a ring in dominant fashion while 2006 Kobe, as amazing as he was individually, didn't help his team win.

Now if we are comparing based purely on skills, I would give the edge to Kobe but we are talking about a certain point of each player's career. The 2012 LeBron played the game the right way and looked to win. The 2006 Kobe tried mostly to get his points. And he did it in amazing fashion but didn't win.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby Weezy on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:40 pm

Not mine, LeBron had like 2 1/2 good games in these Finals, his averages were a joke before the last few games. He was like 30 seconds, 3 missed Spurs free throws, and a Ray Allen 3 from being blamed for losing the series.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:47 pm

Let me add that I think the better comparison would be 2009 Kobe vs 2012 LeBron. Kobe wasn't at his peak physically in 2009 but he still had enough athleticism left over from his younger days to do all of the things a younger Kobe could do. But more importantly, he was a much more complete player who knew how to win a championship without Shaq. His first ring as "the man". His mastery of the game was more refined than in 2006. He played ball the right way in 2009. That Laker team went 65-17. A heck of a record and had a pretty easy run in the playoffs. Kobe had some monster games in the playoffs and was clutch.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:48 pm

OP, did you change the title? I could've sworn the question was asking about 2012 LeBron but now I see 2013 LeBron?
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby Weezy on Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:25 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:2012 LeBron won a ring in dominant fashion while 2006 Kobe, as amazing as he was individually, didn't help his team win.


"Didn't help his team win", wow, I mean wow. There's not a player in the history of the NBA that could have won a damn thing with the roster Kobe had in 2006. Kobe didn't want to win, he just wanted to get his? :man10: He carried a mediocre at best team to the playoffs in a really tough west, and almost beat the heavily favored Suns by playing out of his mind. I don't know that those Lakers win 20 games without Kobe, example being, how many games did the Lakers win in '05 when Kobe was out injured? Give 2006 Kobe LeBron's 2013 or 2013 roster and he wins a ring both times as well. Didn't want to win and just wanted to get his, oh my goodness where do you come up with this stuff?
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby lakersyunowin on Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:35 pm

kobe, cuz i said so
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:38 pm

Weezy wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote:2012 LeBron won a ring in dominant fashion while 2006 Kobe, as amazing as he was individually, didn't help his team win.


"Didn't help his team win", wow, I mean wow. There's not a player in the history of the NBA that could have won a damn thing with the roster Kobe had in 2006. Kobe didn't want to win, he just wanted to get his? :man10: He carried a mediocre at best team to the playoffs in a really tough west, and almost beat the heavily favored Suns by playing out of his mind. I don't know that those Lakers win 20 games without Kobe, example being, how many games did the Lakers win in '05 when Kobe was out injured? Give 2006 Kobe LeBron's 2013 or 2013 roster and he wins a ring both times as well. Didn't want to win and just wanted to get his, oh my goodness where do you come up with this stuff?

DO NOT FEED..........
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:38 pm

Weezy wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote:2012 LeBron won a ring in dominant fashion while 2006 Kobe, as amazing as he was individually, didn't help his team win.


"Didn't help his team win", wow, I mean wow. There's not a player in the history of the NBA that could have won a damn thing with the roster Kobe had in 2006. Kobe didn't want to win, he just wanted to get his? :man10: He carried a mediocre at best team to the playoffs in a really tough west, and almost beat the heavily favored Suns by playing out of his mind. I don't know that those Lakers win 20 games without Kobe, example being, how many games did the Lakers win in '05 when Kobe was out injured? Give 2006 Kobe LeBron's 2013 or 2013 roster and he wins a ring both times as well. Didn't want to win and just wanted to get his, oh my goodness where do you come up with this stuff?

DO NOT FEED..........
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: 2006 Kobe or 2013 LeBron: Who would you pick?

Postby Weezy on Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:47 pm

I know puff, I know, but that was just too much, I couldn't sit back and say nothing. I've said what I had to and that's all I'll say, it's an old, tired argument that goes nowhere.
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