Andrew Bynum Discussion: Out for the season, 2x knee surgery

Rooscooter wrote:Shooters that can actually shoot and players that cut off the ball...... Bynum won't' know what to do with all the "motion" around him..... I think he will grow and thrive in this situation.

The Rock wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:^^It's not that hard when you have respected shooters and players that actually move without the ball..... Something he hasn't experienced yet.... I think he'll do just fine in a system that works to his abilities.....

we didn't have phenomenal cutters or shooters in 2010 and we still won a championship. It can be done. If it has to be taylor fitted to maximize his numbers then this team isn't going far.

revgen wrote:

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:I said "relative" scrub, guys, meaning they're scrubs compared to KAJ.

I think you're trying too hard.

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:

revgen wrote:

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:I said "relative" scrub, guys, meaning they're scrubs compared to KAJ.

I think you're trying too hard.

Isn't that what relative means? Perhaps you're trying too hard.

revgen wrote:

The Rock wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:^^It's not that hard when you have respected shooters and players that actually move without the ball..... Something he hasn't experienced yet.... I think he'll do just fine in a system that works to his abilities.....

we didn't have phenomenal cutters or shooters in 2010 and we still won a championship. It can be done. If it has to be taylor fitted to maximize his numbers then this team isn't going far.

2010 postseason

4 perimeter players who shot 36% from 3pt range or higher.

2011 postseason

1 perimeter player who shot 36% from 3pt range or higher.

2012 postseason

2 perimeter players who shot 36% form 3pt range or higher. And one of them (MWP) only played 6 games.

While 2010 didn't have phenomenal shooting, they had enough to make the defense hesitate and think before doubling. That's not something we've had the last 2 postseasons. Bynum currently has 5 teammates who have career averages of 36% or higher from 3pt range. And none of them are standstill shooters who can't run or jump. All of them are athletes.

Also, the triangle, like the princeton offense, dictates when to cut at the appropriate time. Something we were missing last season under Mike Brown. Collins has made it clear in his Q&A session with the press that he will focus on cutting off the ball while Bynum is doubled. There will be no standing around like we saw under Mike Brown.

The 76ers won't win a championship. Not because they are over-tailoring their system around Bynum, but because they only have one proven all-star on their roster. Collins mentions in the Q&A that he's hoping that Turner and Holliday become the other 2 all-stars. Those are pretty high hopes.

KB&AB wrote:I think Bynum looks good in that 76ers jersey.

revgen wrote:

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:

revgen wrote:

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:I said "relative" scrub, guys, meaning they're scrubs compared to KAJ.

I think you're trying too hard.

Isn't that what relative means? Perhaps you're trying too hard.

Bynum is the 2nd best center in the NBA. He was a 2nd team All-NBA player last season, yet according to you we should feel sorry for Kareem that Bynum only spent 4 years learning under him.

That's what I mean by "trying too hard".

therealdeal wrote:Unless he lost more weight and put on more muscle, that is a very flattering poster.

therealdeal wrote:Unless he lost more weight and put on more muscle, that is a very flattering poster.

revgen wrote:^Not a big fan of the fro myself. He looks more intimidating with the shaved head. Fro's work with guys like Ben Wallace who are 6-7 since the fro makes them look bigger. With Drew it makes him look like Bynum the Clown. Big feet. Big Hands. Big Fro. All he needs to do is dye the fro red and paint his face.

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:Kareem in my mind is the greatest center ever, and along with Magic, the greatest Laker ever.

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:Bynum was no star when Kareem was assigned to work with him,

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:and Cap turned him into an all-star after 4 years.

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:Drew still has a long ways to go before he's a legitimate #1 option, and I'm saddened that he felt after 4 years that he had learned all he could from Kareem.

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:My point is that guys who will never ever have the career that KAJ had, don't respect him for the player that he was, and what he did for the game.

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:If I was 7 feet tall and had a shot to play in the nba, I would study under Kareem my whole career.

Who's better: Clips' duo or Philly?

Why 'Lob City' has the edge over Bynum and Holiday


When you're pairing two All-Star starters against two up-and-comers who've never played together, you might just feel compelled to skip to the bottom of the story because you already know who won.

Well, hold on. All-Star votes don't count here. While Chris Paul and Blake Griffin have the advantage of having worked together for a year, Andrew Bynum is an All-Star force at his position and Jrue Holiday is one of the most promising young players in the game.

Forming a good duo is about more than just two players' combined production. It's about how well they work together and contribute to one another's games. Regardless of position, there are myriad ways two players can plug together to become greater than the sum of their parts. The Clippers' pairing has the All-Star pedigree but the Sixers' tandem is long on talent and potential.

So who's the better duo?


Who's Better: Chris Paul vs. Jrue Holiday

Let's get something out of the way. Paul is the game's best point guard. In any matchup, Holiday will have his hands full and be at a disadvantage in nearly every phase of the game. But Philly's fourth-year lead guard is no slouch, and his improving grasp of the NBA game is gradually making him a better match for Paul.

At just 22, with excellent size (6-foot-4) and quickness, Holiday is still learning the position at the NBA level. He made strides last season on defense (going over screens effectively), and even though he averaged two fewer assists coaches were pleased with the advancements in his decision-making. A slick ballhandler -- he's particularly fond of the right-to-left behind-the-back dribble -- he's got a quality spin move and a solid set of hesitation moves that free him for jumpshots or help open driving lanes that make him a legitimate threat to score.


Streeter Lecka/Getty Images
Griffin and Paul meshed well in the first season of "Lob City."
Last season Paul took the Clippers from an also-ran to a near contender simply by showing up. The quintessential coach on the floor, Paul's leadership, intensity and basketball IQ benefits whoever is on the floor with him at any given moment. But the true mark of his greatness is his dominance in the fourth quarter. Last season his averages of 6.2 points and 1.7 assists in the final stanza ranked second and fifth in the league respectively. In the same categories Holiday ranked a disappointing 101st and 40th.

Holiday isn't a pure point guard but has the ball skills, vision and unselfishness to create for others. While he is the Sixers' primary set-up man, head coach Doug Collins wants Holiday to think like a scorer without losing sight of his distributor duties. Imagine a poor man's Deron Williams.

Holiday is one of the fastest-rising talents in this league but he's clearly overmatched when lined up opposite Paul. But Philly's recent postseason runs have added to his seasoning. In fact, Holiday has played in more playoff games (18 to 17) in the past two years than Paul.

Advantage: Paul


Who's Better: Blake Griffin vs. Andrew Bynum
The development and production of Bynum will be one of the most intriguing on-court stories of any individual player this year. The Sixers are depending on their new big man to carry them deep into the playoffs. For the first time in his career Bynum is the focal point of an offense. With Collins being a big proponent of inside-outside basketball, Bynum will see no shortage of touches. In Los Angeles, Bynum's touches were always at the mercy of Kobe Bryant, who dominated the ball and hoisted the rock 23 times per game last season.


Andrew D. Bernstein/NBAE/Getty Images
Bynum's size and Griffin's lax defense give the Philly big man an advantage.
With Andre Iguodala now in Denver and Lou Williams in Atlanta, the returning Sixer who attempted the most shots per game last year is Evan Turner at 9.1. Not only will Bynum get shots early, he makes good sense as Philly's go-to guy. Last season he shot a league-best 59.8 percent from the field in the fourth quarter.

With the sheer volume of wing talent the Clippers brought in, Griffin will almost certainly see a drop in both shot attempts and scoring. This puts the onus on him to develop a better back-to-the-basket game because the Clippers will have plenty of shooters occupying that midrange territory. An accurate jump hook and 10-foot step-back would get him better looks and minimize his lack of length inside. But the Clippers' depth at wing won't have anything to do with Griffin's defensive game, one of the areas for which he has drawn criticism. Griffin must make strides on the defensive end this season. Getting rid of his tendency to leak out on the break before a defensive possession ends would be a good start.

Defense also is an area where Bynum has a huge advantage over the Clippers forward. His size and length make it terribly difficult to get off good shots around the basket. While Bynum wins the blocked shot battle going away (1.9 to 0.7), he also changes more shots that lead to misses, which is essentially the same as a block. Simply contesting more shots is another way Griffin can improve his defensive effectiveness.

Largely because of their change in situations, I wouldn't be surprised to see Bynum average more points, rebounds and blocks than Griffin while shooting a higher percentage from both the field and the line.

Advantage: Bynum

Who fits together better?
Paul and Griffin have a year under their belt working together so naturally their cohesion and overall understanding of one another's game is further along than Holiday and Bynum, who have yet to step on a basketball court together. Paul and Griffin have excellent chemistry when working the two-man game, particularly the pick-and-roll. After getting a Griffin pick, usually around the left free throw line extended while going to his right, Paul more often than not makes the right decision in taking his floater, shooting the jumper or giving it up. His crisp bounce passes hit Griffin in stride, allowing him to simply take two steps and finish.

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David Dow/NBAE/Getty Images
Holiday's size and athleticism should pair well with Bynum's intimidating presence.
Then there's connecting through the air. In today's game the alley-oop has moved beyond simple flash to a highly effective, must-have weapon for every offense. Paul's pinpoint lobs are the perfect complement to Griffin's leaping ability and flair for finishing. Last season the "Lob City" duo combined for 23 dunks off alley-oops, third most by any single duo.

Lobs are also a huge part of Bynum's effectiveness and a great booster to his field goal percentage. Last season he threw down a league-best 84 dunks off alley-oops. Considering that, Holiday might not make the best partner -- he tossed only four lobs for dunks all last season. That number probably will go up considering how big a target Bynum is.

What's more, neither Bynum nor Holiday is a particularly effective pick-and-roll player. In L.A., Bynum was rarely called on to run the play because of his inability to pop, aversion to setting quality screens and the fact that having him so far away from the basket was counter-productive. He was used in the pick-and-roll on only 16 percent of his possessions. That probably won't change in Philadelphia as Collins will want to exploit his considerable back-to-the basket skills.

Pick-and-rolls and alley-oops aside, there are other ways Bynum and Holiday might jell, such as give-and-gos (backdoors are a clear sign two guys are on the same page) and their level of communication during the game. In L.A., Paul directs Griffin throughout the course of a game and doesn't hesitate to chide him if his focus wanes or he steps out of his effective comfort zone.

Unless it came from Bryant, Bynum has proven he isn't the most receptive to on-court criticism in the heat of the moment, and the 22-year-old Holiday might be reticent to be firm with the franchise's All-Star center until they get to know one another better.

No doubt Holiday and Bynum will have a big impact this season. But they're more likely to do it by compiling individual numbers than working in tandem like Paul and Griffin.

Winner: Paul and Griffin

Conclusion
Whenever Paul is involved it's going to be quite difficult to upstage any duo he's a part of. And that's the case here as Paul and Griffin are the superior one-two punch. Paul's mastery of the pick-and-roll, dangerous one-on-one skills and ability to raise the play of anyone lucky enough to be in a two-man game with him puts the Clippers' pair on top.

Paul's specific skill set, which includes pinpoint passing and leadership, enhances Griffin's game and keeps him engaged throughout the course of a contest. In short, when Paul does what he does best, Griffin thrives.

For now it remains to be seen if Holiday and Bynum will work as a duo. You can certainly bank on a high level of production from Bynum and steady improvement out of Holiday, but their individual styles of play might hinder them from becoming a cohesive one-two punch. Given their tendencies and skill sets they don't seem like a natural pairing on paper. That alone won't prevent the Sixers from being a dangerous team in the Eastern Conference, but a certain lack of chemistry could haunt them come playoff time.

revgen wrote:

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:Kareem in my mind is the greatest center ever, and along with Magic, the greatest Laker ever.

Well at least we agree on something.

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:Bynum was no star when Kareem was assigned to work with him,

Correct. He was a 17 year old rookie and very raw.

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:and Cap turned him into an all-star after 4 years.

Drew wasn't an all-star after 4 years. He didn't become an all-star until his 7th year in the league due to injuries.

revgen wrote:Also, Cap didn't "turn Drew into an all-star". Drew put in the time and work to make it happen. Kareem isn't some kind of magician with magical powers who can turn anybody into an all-star with the wave of a magic wand. It's silly claims like these that only further prove my point.

revgen wrote:

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:Drew still has a long ways to go before he's a legitimate #1 option, and I'm saddened that he felt after 4 years that he had learned all he could from Kareem.

Doug Collins and the 76ers consider Drew to be a number 1 option. They even bothered to give up an all-star SF in his prime to acquire him. And Philly isn't a bottom class team. They made the playoffs the last 2 seasons and only missed the postseason one time in the last 5 years. Even Kevin McHale mentioned that Drew is a player who can be a #1 player in this league. But hey, I guess you know better than they do.

revgen wrote:4 years is more time than Kareem spent learning under John Wooden. Even Kareem told radio stations in Bynum's 4th season that most of the learning that Drew needed would have to come on the court through experience. There is only so much a player can learn on a practice court. What exactly would Drew learn in 5, 6, or 7 years from Cap that he wouldn't have learned in 4 years?

revgen wrote:

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:My point is that guys who will never ever have the career that KAJ had, don't respect him for the player that he was, and what he did for the game.

Few bigs will ever have the kind of career that Kareem had. So I'm not sure what your point is.

revgen wrote:If Drew didn't respect Kareem, he wouldn't have bothered learning under him for 4 seasons. No other NBA player has yet to spend that much time learning under Cap. And no NBA player that Kareem has tutored has even made an all-star appearance aside from Bynum. And Cap has been retired from the NBA for 23 years now. That's pretty exclusive company.

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:If I was 7 feet tall and had a shot to play in the nba, I would study under Kareem my whole career.

Wishful thinking. You're not 7 feet. You're not an NBA player. And you've never studied with Kareem. Yet you pretend what you would do if you were walking in Bynum's shoes. It's silly and ridiculous.

Doc Brown wrote:ESPN likes Bynum.......jumped to number 13 on the NBA rankings list, up 17 spots from 30 last year.

Mark Medina of the LA Times wrote:When it came down to evaluating whether the Lakers would trade Andrew Bynum for Dwight Howard, the Lakers front office held a failry simple criteria on why they pulled the trigger.

"We got the best," Lakers General Manager Mitch Kupchak said at the time.

Yet, if you're to listen to Sixers small forward Dorrell Wright talk about the new Sixers center, perhaps the Lakers should've pulled a mulligan and remained status quo.

"He's going to need two defenders to stop him; I would say he's the best big man in the NBA right now, hands down," Wright told the Phiadelphia Inquirer's John Mitchell. "He's a guy that can give you baskets with his back to the basket; a guy who makes free throws at 7-feet. You've just got to respect him."

On behalf of probably every NBA executive, Mitchell wrote he told Wright that Howard remains the better center. Howard finished last season better than Bynum in points (20.6, 16.7), rebounds (14.5, 11.8) and blocked shots (2.15, 1.93). According to Synergy Sports Technology, Howard fared better than Bynum in isolation plays (Howard 25th; Bynum 75th) and on spot-up shots (Howard 46th; Bynum 86th). He posted these numbers without much the supporting cast Bynum enjoyed. Heck, Wright even personally witnessed Bynum shooting that famous three-pointer when he played last season for Golden State.

But Wright wouldn't have any of it. His reasons for electing Bynum over Howard go beyond the uncertainty on how long it will take Howard to rehab his back after surgery.

"I’d say it any day," Wright said. "It’s because I know he can put his back to the basket and give us a basket and request a double team and make free throws. It’s his all-around game. Hopefully he can stay healthy and we can ride, he can put us on his back and he can take us as far as we can go."

Wright's likely following the unwritten code professional athletes have in touting up their own teammates. The Sixers rightfully feel giddy over Bynum instantly becoming his franchise player. Yet for an organization that often coddled to him, Kobe Bryant and Mike Brown never ever tried to pretend Bynum was better than Howard when he wore the purple & gold.

And that's why the Lakers are giddy now. They now have the best center, no questions asked.