Andrew Goudelock Waived: no longer a Laker (pg 23)

Rooscooter wrote:^^The biggest "steal" of the second round in the last 10 years could turn out to be Marc Gasol...... Last time I checked we drafted him....

He will be an all star this year and in years to come. If you think about it... Mitch has picked two allstar centers that are playing at the same time..... Not sure that has been done since Ralph Sampson and Hakeem......

Duncan and Robinson?

Helljumper wrote:^ Just quickly looking through the last 3 drafts (not including the most recent one since it's still too early to tell), out of the 90 second round picks, I only recognized like 15 of them that are even rotation players. Of them, the best one was probably Marcus Thornton (who is a very good scorer, but no where near being a star). The rest were role-players like Deandre Jordan, Landry Fields, Dejuan Blair, etc. Prime Luke Walton (11 ppg, 5 rpg, 4 apg, 47% FG%, 38% 3PT%) was probably just as good as any of these players in terms of his impact on the court.

So no, it really isn't as common to get great players in the second round as you think. In most cases, second round picks are out of the league within a few seasons.

Prime Luke Walton - it was 1 season and it turned into a biggest fluke in recent history of Lakers organization. We all know how that ended. Oh, it haven't ended yet ;) Plus - Lakers had really bad team then, it wasn't that hard to reach 11/5/4.

I take DA Jordan, Fields, Blair (not mentioning Thornton who is really good scorer and I would call him "a steal") over any of our "steals": Ronny, Sasha, Luke... M.Gasol - yes, you're right Rooscooter. But he's not and never been a Laker. Ok, we got Pau Gasol but that's not what I mean. Toney Douglas can also be a star (questionable but let's say it's possible) and we can say we drafted that guy. So what?

Other 2nd rounders from last 3 years better than Luke in his prime: Meeks, Jerebko, Mbah a Moute, Budinger, Chalmers, Dragic...

Yes, it's not as common to get great players in the second round, but come on, once in a decade it would be nice to get something for free. Lakers just cant get that. I hope Goudelock will change this mode

magicman32 wrote:I don't like those floaters he throws up, like do you really need to throw up an 18-ft floater? why not just shoot the ball regularly?

I can understand a floater from the paint with 7-footers around but the floaters he throws up are really low percentage shots.

Overall, the kid is a nice surprise - confident, great shooter, not scared or intimidated.

what's wrong with the floaters? It's a part of pg's arsenal

jism wrote:

Helljumper wrote:^ Just quickly looking through the last 3 drafts (not including the most recent one since it's still too early to tell), out of the 90 second round picks, I only recognized like 15 of them that are even rotation players. Of them, the best one was probably Marcus Thornton (who is a very good scorer, but no where near being a star). The rest were role-players like Deandre Jordan, Landry Fields, Dejuan Blair, etc. Prime Luke Walton (11 ppg, 5 rpg, 4 apg, 47% FG%, 38% 3PT%) was probably just as good as any of these players in terms of his impact on the court.

So no, it really isn't as common to get great players in the second round as you think. In most cases, second round picks are out of the league within a few seasons.

Prime Luke Walton - it was 1 season and it turned into a biggest fluke in recent history of Lakers organization. We all know how that ended. Oh, it haven't ended yet ;) Plus - Lakers had really bad team then, it wasn't that hard to reach 11/5/4.

I take DA Jordan, Fields, Blair (not mentioning Thornton who is really good scorer and I would call him "a steal") over any of our "steals": Ronny, Sasha, Luke... M.Gasol - yes, you're right Rooscooter. But he's not and never been a Laker. Ok, we got Pau Gasol but that's not what I mean. Toney Douglas can also be a star (questionable but let's say it's possible) and we can say we drafted that guy. So what?

Other 2nd rounders from last 3 years better than Luke in his prime: Meeks, Jerebko, Mbah a Moute, Budinger, Chalmers, Dragic...

Yes, it's not as common to get great players in the second round, but come on, once in a decade it would be nice to get something for free. Lakers just cant get that. I hope Goudelock will change this mode

I agree that some of those players were better than Luke (I disagree with Meeks, Mbah a Moute, Budinger being better although they still have the potential to improve). I never said that Luke, Ronny, etc. were better "steals" than Jordan, Fields, Blair, etc. I just said that they all impacted the game in a similar way. None of them are leaders or stars. They're just quality role-players. And yes, I agree, they are better role-players than some of our late picks ended up being, but at the end of the day, they're still role-players.

My point is that it's extremely rare to get a star in the second round and that even getting a player who can contribute off the bench and put up 7-8 ppg is rare. Obviously it would be awesome if Goudelock could turn into a star, but what I'm saying is that even if he doesn't, he'd be considered a steal if he could just continue playing the way he is right now.

bruddahmanmatt wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:^^The biggest "steal" of the second round in the last 10 years could turn out to be Marc Gasol...... Last time I checked we drafted him....

He will be an all star this year and in years to come. If you think about it... Mitch has picked two allstar centers that are playing at the same time..... Not sure that has been done since Ralph Sampson and Hakeem......

Duncan and Robinson?

Centers..... Duncan isn't a center no matter what it says in the box score.

Did they both play in an all star game together?..... One?....

Looking at that list of players that came out of the 2nd round and became stars, it just doesn't happen very often. Gil and Ginob are the only ones who come to mind. Maybe Booz, but he's injured all the frikin' time. After the Spurs did so well with Manu and Tony, other teams started scouting the world much better, and it started the trend of euro and south american players going in the first round instead of the second. That's why there aren't so many foreign steals in the second round anymore. Word has gotten out that some of these guys can really play, and now they're over-hyped just like the high-school phenoms are.

Lakers have done pretty well with 2nd rounders, in that many of their second rounders have stayed in the league and made a career for themselves. Ronny, Luke (who was wanted by the Suns when he got his new contract), Von ( a decent career in Houston) , Nick the Quick, and Ruben Patterson (the Kobe-Stopper!!) all are having or had decent careers, which is all you can expect from a 2nd rounder.

jism wrote:

Helljumper wrote:^ Just quickly looking through the last 3 drafts (not including the most recent one since it's still too early to tell), out of the 90 second round picks, I only recognized like 15 of them that are even rotation players. Of them, the best one was probably Marcus Thornton (who is a very good scorer, but no where near being a star). The rest were role-players like Deandre Jordan, Landry Fields, Dejuan Blair, etc. Prime Luke Walton (11 ppg, 5 rpg, 4 apg, 47% FG%, 38% 3PT%) was probably just as good as any of these players in terms of his impact on the court.

So no, it really isn't as common to get great players in the second round as you think. In most cases, second round picks are out of the league within a few seasons.

Prime Luke Walton - it was 1 season and it turned into a biggest fluke in recent history of Lakers organization. We all know how that ended. Oh, it haven't ended yet ;) Plus - Lakers had really bad team then, it wasn't that hard to reach 11/5/4.

I take DA Jordan, Fields, Blair (not mentioning Thornton who is really good scorer and I would call him "a steal") over any of our "steals": Ronny, Sasha, Luke... M.Gasol - yes, you're right Rooscooter. But he's not and never been a Laker. Ok, we got Pau Gasol but that's not what I mean. Toney Douglas can also be a star (questionable but let's say it's possible) and we can say we drafted that guy. So what?

Other 2nd rounders from last 3 years better than Luke in his prime: Meeks, Jerebko, Mbah a Moute, Budinger, Chalmers, Dragic...

Yes, it's not as common to get great players in the second round, but come on, once in a decade it would be nice to get something for free. Lakers just cant get that. I hope Goudelock will change this mode

I know I'm nitpicking here, but I never understood why people do this. The Knicks made that pick and we drafted Douglas for them. He was never meant to come here and the Lakers had no interest in him. The pick was sold before we drafted him for NY.

Rooscooter wrote:

bruddahmanmatt wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:^^The biggest "steal" of the second round in the last 10 years could turn out to be Marc Gasol...... Last time I checked we drafted him....

He will be an all star this year and in years to come. If you think about it... Mitch has picked two allstar centers that are playing at the same time..... Not sure that has been done since Ralph Sampson and Hakeem......

Duncan and Robinson?

Centers..... Duncan isn't a center no matter what it says in the box score.

Did they both play in an all star game together?..... One?....

To be fair, Sampson despite being the taller player often played more like a PF than Hakeem. As for the Spurs, Robinson had solid range and yet because he was the vet and he was taller, he was listed as the team's 5 which meant that Duncan received the label of "PF", it's just that the label stuck, even after Rasho and Nazr were out of the picture and Duncan shifted over to the 5 on a permanent basis. TD's game is almost pure B2B. McDyess, Matt Bonner and Blair were/are NOT playing center despite what SA puts on the AS ballots in order to make it easier for TD to get a nod. I'd say that the reason he was often billed as a 4 was because it was easier to make a case for him being the best at the position whereas if he were listed as a 5 he'd be compared to the likes Shaq, Kareem, Russell etc... Duncan has been playing the 5 exclusively since about 2006/2007, but even during Robinson's last two years or so, Timmy played a lot of 5 when the Admiral was resting a la Gasol alongside Odom under Phil and the tri. Back then his time at the 4/5 was split about 50/50. To say that he's always been a PF would be false IMO just as it would be false to label Gasol as either purely a F or a C IMO.

FWIW, the PF position is probably the hardest position to define if you ask me. Duncan was/is more of a 5 who played at the 4 while you have a guy like KG who was more of a 7' SF who played PF, and Dirk who's more of a 7' SG. Malone, Barkley, McHale, etc... the greatest to ever play that position vary in terms of style more than the greats at any other position IMO.

Oh and BTW, as for Duncan and Robinson ever playing in an ASG together, 1998, 2000 and 2001. Not one but three.

Any other old school NBA watcher here reminded of Andrew Toney the way this guy plays? Compact and strong body with great shooting range...

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:Any other old school NBA watcher here reminded of Andrew Toney the way this guy plays? Compact and strong body with great shooting range...

Yes..... It's a good comparison...... Vinnie Johnson and Freddie Brown come to mind as well.

Rooscooter wrote:

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:Any other old school NBA watcher here reminded of Andrew Toney the way this guy plays? Compact and strong body with great shooting range...

Yes..... It's a good comparison...... Vinnie Johnson and Freddie Brown come to mind as well.

Downtown, I love that nickname...No one has used it again

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:Looking at that list of players that came out of the 2nd round and became stars, it just doesn't happen very often. Gil and Ginob are the only ones who come to mind. Maybe Booz, but he's injured all the frikin' time. After the Spurs did so well with Manu and Tony, other teams started scouting the world much better, and it started the trend of euro and south american players going in the first round instead of the second. That's why there aren't so many foreign steals in the second round anymore. Word has gotten out that some of these guys can really play, and now they're over-hyped just like the high-school phenoms are.

Lakers have done pretty well with 2nd rounders, in that many of their second rounders have stayed in the league and made a career for themselves. Ronny, Luke (who was wanted by the Suns when he got his new contract), Von ( a decent career in Houston) , Nick the Quick, and Ruben Patterson (the Kobe-Stopper!!) all are having or had decent careers, which is all you can expect from a 2nd rounder.

Once again: Redd, M. Gasol, Ginobili, Stephen Jackson, Monta, Landry, Mo Williams, Arenas, Rashard L., Scola, Okur, Boozer - just to name few 2nd rounders that turned into stars and can be named as "tru steals". Add some formidable late 1rst rounders (Tony Parker, Afflalo, Brooks, W. Chandler, Lowry, D. Collison, J.Jack, D. Lee, Kevin Martin...) - we used to pick players from +25th seed, right?

I agree with y'all - it's rare to get a diamond in the rough, we've done pretty well drafting some decent role players but that's not exactly what I mean. My wish for LAL - get a player from sec. round who could develop just like another Monta, Mo or Cpt Jack, get something for free just once ;) It happens, not often, but it does. So let it happen to Mitch and Lakers. Gou Goudelock!

To me, G-Loc is a steal at the 2nd round. He's knocking down shots and contributing to the team significantly right now. His handles and defense needs work, but I think he's doing a lot better than many of last year's draft in the first round. I'm looking at the 2011 1st round draft, and the only players are Kyrie and Kemba is doing anything significant. Jimmer has been a disappointment so far, but he has a good stroke too, so he'll turn it around. And out of the 2nd round, I think only Moore and Thomas will stick around, maybe.

With a stroke like G-Loc, a team in the league will want to have that kind of firepower on the bench, if only to keep spacing and prevent defenders to sag and double down on the bigs.

Though this draft is having some pretty solid second rounders for now. Its not necessary to say G-Loc has been doing pretty good, but also Chandler Parsons from Houston has been a pretty solid second rounder, same with Jon Leuer from Milwaukee and on a lesser level, but still good, Josh Harrellson from NY and Isaiah Thomas from Sacramento.

Doc Brown wrote:Seriously people dogging him for his floater? His defense and handles deserve to be called out, but he puts the ball in the basket, I don't care if he shot it granny style if it puts points on the board who cares?

His floater is money.

I hate Kobe's fadeaway, why not just shoot a set jumpshot. Ewww...

if you go back and watch a lot of his floater, there's nobody around, he's wide open, and he's too far out to be shooting floaters. In the long run, it's not a good shot. just cuz he made a couple doesn't mean he should hoist up floaters from the free throw line all the time.

people like tony parker, chris paul, etc shoot floaters from the paint over the top of big centers, those are shots with purpose.

i obviously like him, but his ceiling isn't much past where he is now. that's fine for a team like the lakers, however, that just need someone who's a legitimate nba player. teams will start pressuring him full court if he becomes a staple in the lineup, and we'll see if he has staying power in the league. then again, the spurs' gary neal has stuck around despite being an incredibly undersized sg with suspect handles and footspeed, so maybe glock will be just fine. i've enjoyed watching him these past few games; much moreso than morris for the first few.

magicman32 wrote:

Doc Brown wrote:Seriously people dogging him for his floater? His defense and handles deserve to be called out, but he puts the ball in the basket, I don't care if he shot it granny style if it puts points on the board who cares?

His floater is money.

I hate Kobe's fadeaway, why not just shoot a set jumpshot. Ewww...

if you go back and watch a lot of his floater, there's nobody around, he's wide open, and he's too far out to be shooting floaters. In the long run, it's not a good shot. just cuz he made a couple doesn't mean he should hoist up floaters from the free throw line all the time.

people like tony parker, chris paul, etc shoot floaters from the paint over the top of big centers, those are shots with purpose.

He shoots the floater because the dude is barely 6 feet tall. If he were to stop and pop, probably 85% of SGs and 70% of PGs would block him. The floater comes out of necessity when he's driving. He shoots the floater from the free throw line, midrange area, which usually gets 2 defenders in the air, which frees him up for a rebound (it's happened multiple times).

It's an effective shot, I don't really see what the problem is.

Love him shooting... I think he should have a license to shoot.

The floater, if working, is a great tool because it gives the defenses another look than the Laker's other shots too. Hopefully he can keep it up and become a breakout rookie star.

Yeah, like a poster said before. GLOC reminds me of Gary Neal.

therealdeal wrote:

magicman32 wrote:

Doc Brown wrote:Seriously people dogging him for his floater? His defense and handles deserve to be called out, but he puts the ball in the basket, I don't care if he shot it granny style if it puts points on the board who cares?

His floater is money.

I hate Kobe's fadeaway, why not just shoot a set jumpshot. Ewww...

if you go back and watch a lot of his floater, there's nobody around, he's wide open, and he's too far out to be shooting floaters. In the long run, it's not a good shot. just cuz he made a couple doesn't mean he should hoist up floaters from the free throw line all the time.

people like tony parker, chris paul, etc shoot floaters from the paint over the top of big centers, those are shots with purpose.

He shoots the floater because the dude is barely 6 feet tall. If he were to stop and pop, probably 85% of SGs and 70% of PGs would block him. The floater comes out of necessity when he's driving. He shoots the floater from the free throw line, midrange area, which usually gets 2 defenders in the air, which frees him up for a rebound (it's happened multiple times).

It's an effective shot, I don't really see what the problem is.

I'm guessing he's never played basketball as the small guy. I'm routinely one of the smaller guys on court so a floater is almost a "natural" reaction for me. I'm assuming it's the same for Goudelock.

I've also seen Chris Paul throw a floater from the free throw line area many, many times. It's practically automatic and one of the reasons why his midrange % is so high.

New nickname for Goudelock, he's been named the mini mamba. Look at his smile when he the reporter brings it up lol. We need him feeling at ease and "one" with the team to keep shooting confidently. I haven't been this happy with a rookie since young Bynum took it to Shaq.


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Goudelock: 'I think I'm just as good as everybody in that draft' ow.ly/1h7qV3