Antawn Jamison Discussion: Cockroach

Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby KB24 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:42 am

as usual this bench has some magic that forces everyone to suck. All the players all of a sudden can't shoot anymore, become hesitant, lose focus, turn it over...its insane.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby revgen on Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:03 am

The bench units never are able to get any consistency because they have to deal with a coach who never lets them play and figure it out.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:23 am

^ That. Jamison got some garbage time burn and while he was out there you could see him catching a groove. He's not used to playing 14 minutes a night.

He was brought here to play 20+ minutes a night and give Pau a rest while providing scoring for our bench. I have yet to see a single play drawn up for him down the court. Not one. Nor has he played more than 20 minutes so far to my knowledge. Is that Jamison's fault? I don't think so.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby khmrP on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:24 pm

therealdeal wrote:^ That. Jamison got some garbage time burn and while he was out there you could see him catching a groove. He's not used to playing 14 minutes a night.

He was brought here to play 20+ minutes a night and give Pau a rest while providing scoring for our bench. I have yet to see a single play drawn up for him down the court. Not one. Nor has he played more than 20 minutes so far to my knowledge. Is that Jamison's fault? I don't think so.


I doubt much changes with that sack of poop at the helm with his sub patterns. Its embarrasing that we have to say that at least 2 starters stay in the bench but I see teams like the clips, spurs, okc, mia etc. can play all 5 subs in and they dont look anywhere as pathetic as ours. In fact Spurs/Mia bench can beat some starting teams out there.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:29 pm

Our bench could too if they were empowered to do so. A good coach can do that for you.

Our coach does the exact opposite. He limits their power, he limits their confidence, and then he limits their production. All the while wondering why he's not getting anything from them.

Honestly, our bench is right up there in the middle of the pack talent wise. Not super athletic, but they've got a lot of savvy. Give them the ability to do their thing and find their identity and they'll be successful. Unfortunately half of our bench doesn't get to play and the other half gets limited minutes.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby karacha on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:41 pm

That's why I'm trying to say --

Blake, Meeks, Ebanks, Jamison, Hill, with Duhon, Sacre and Morris at the end of the bench... that's an alright group. Not the best, far from it, but it's an OK bench if you know how to use it and mix 3 of these guys with the 2 starters in a way that maximizes their talent and lets them build some confidence.

1. Play Meeks and Duhon with Dwight and that's enough to at least secure the lead if nothing else.

2. Play Morris with someone who can pass and get people involved: Kobe and Pau. If that doesn't build his confidence, nothing will. Park him in the corner and let him rip the baseline 3, because the kid can hit those. This enables Pau to work more in the post too. That's always a bonus.

3. Play Jamison at the 4 with Dwight and create plays for him. He will score, I guarantee it.

4. Play Hill with Pau, for some hustle and extra rebounds. He's tough and Pau can set him up for an easy dunk (which he did last night, for example). Dwight can't set Hill up; in fact the two of them will end up causing a turnover while fighting for the same rebound.

Here are some suggestions:

Nash/Meeks/Ebanks/Jamison/Dwight (this one should kill most teams once they build some chemistry)

Blake/Kobe/Metta/Hill/Pau (get the ball out of Metta's hands and create an open shot for him; he can easily handle the minutes now that he's in shape. Blake, Kobe and Pau can get him involved)

Morris/Kobe/Ebanks/Hill/Pau

Duhon/Meeks/Ebanks/Jamison/Dwight

Garbage minutes for

Duhon/Meeks/Ebanks/Jamison/Sacre

I would put Morris here, but he just can't create for anybody, while Duhon can get Meeks and Jamison open shots. But again, that's garbage time, last 4 minutes of the game, so whatever. As you can see, I'm trying to enable Jamison to play with the bench guys and with the starters. Give him minutes. He needs to play more. Run plays for him. He can score 10 ppg easily. Let Dwight clean the boards when he misses. Meeks can flat out shoot; he needs Duhon or Nash to give him an easy look. You get the idea. You want to re-enforce Pau and make us tougher? Play Hill next to him and Pau will return the favor with his beautiful passes. Make Pau the point pivot and give him the green light to work and score in the post.

Anyone agree? Does this make any sense to you guys?
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby The Original 81 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:48 pm

karacha wrote:That's why I'm trying to say --

Blake, Meeks, Ebanks, Jamison, Hill, with Duhon, Sacre and Morris at the end of the bench... that's an alright group. Not the best, far from it, but it's an OK bench if you know how to use it and mix 3 of these guys with the 2 starters in a way that maximizes their talent and lets them build some confidence.

1. Play Meeks and Duhon with Dwight and that's enough to at least secure the lead if nothing else.

2. Play Morris with someone who can pass and get people involved: Kobe and Pau. If that doesn't build his confidence, nothing will. Park him in the corner and let him rip the baseline 3, because the kid can hit those. This enables Pau to work more in the post too. That's always a bonus.

3. Play Jamison at the 4 with Dwight and create plays for him. He will score, I guarantee it.

4. Play Hill with Pau, for some hustle and extra rebounds. He's tough and Pau can set him up for an easy dunk (which he did last night, for example). Dwight can't set Hill up; in fact the two of them will end up causing a turnover while fighting for the same rebound.

Here are some suggestions:

Nash/Meeks/Ebanks/Jamison/Dwight (this one should kill most teams once they build some chemistry)

Blake/Kobe/Metta/Hill/Pau (get the ball out of Metta's hands and create an open shot for him; he can easily handle the minutes now that he's in shape. Blake, Kobe and Pau can get him involved)

Morris/Kobe/Ebanks/Hill/Pau

Duhon/Meeks/Ebanks/Jamison/Dwight

Garbage minutes for

Duhon/Meeks/Ebanks/Jamison/Sacre

I would put Morris here, but he just can't create for anybody, while Duhon can get Meeks and Jamison open shots. But again, that's garbage time, last 4 minutes of the game, so whatever. As you can see, I'm trying to enable Jamison to play with the bench guys and with the starters. Give him minutes. He needs to play more. Run plays for him. He can score 10 ppg easily. Let Dwight clean the boards when he misses. Meeks can flat out shoot; he needs Duhon or Nash to give him an easy look. You get the idea. You want to re-enforce Pau and make us tougher? Play Hill next to him and Pau will return the favor with his beautiful passes. Make Pau the point pivot and give him the green light to work and score in the post.


Couldn't agree more. Again, I must be really dumb because I do not understand how MB doesn't see things at least a similar fashion as most of us do.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:50 pm

^ I've been saying the same thing since we found out who our team would be.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby borri on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:54 pm

Jamison is mis-used big time.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby karacha on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:56 pm

That's why some people think Jamison is done. He's not. He got better last night with increased minutes. Look at him: guy is an amazing shape for his age. Of course he'll miss some shots. But build his confidence, draw plays for him. Play him with some defensive-minded guys who can rebound. Jamison can easily get us 10 ppg. No, not 17. But 10 is plenty. He can rebound too. You don't even notice when he gets 5-6 of those.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby Lakerjones on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:58 pm

^^ I could not agree more with you guys, too. Everyone's ripping on the bench, but to me it's a matter of rotations with them. I do not understand what's so hard about that common sense rotation: Blake, Meeks, Ebanks, Jamison, Hill. Morris should be at the very end of the bench. Sacre right behind him. Duhon is a backup PG while Nash is out and Blake starts. Why does Brown insist on playing guys out of position? Last year he did it with Blake at SG, now it's Ebanks at 2 with no PT for Meeks who is a legit SG, and it's Jamison at the 3 when he hasn't played that position in years and can't keep up there. It's maddening.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby BDG on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:25 pm

borri wrote:Jamison is mis-used big time.
Thank you. I'm only gonna start getting pissed at Jamison if I see he's playing horribly while in spots where he's comfortable.

I thought he's supposed to be the leader of that second unit, yet we've literally run NOTHING to get him a good look or some easy buckets.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:27 pm

You know what I've noticed? He's good at creating steals around the basket against young guys. Opposing bigs that bring the ball down to their waste, Jamison does a great job of slapping at it and knocking the ball loose.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby GoldenKnight on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:42 pm

Jamison is better than how we are using him, but then again, you can saw that for quite a few players under this coach...

Tawn just needs to be more aggressive
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby lakersin4 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:28 pm

karacha wrote:That's why I'm trying to say --

Blake, Meeks, Ebanks, Jamison, Hill, with Duhon, Sacre and Morris at the end of the bench... that's an alright group. Not the best, far from it, but it's an OK bench if you know how to use it and mix 3 of these guys with the 2 starters in a way that maximizes their talent and lets them build some confidence.

1. Play Meeks and Duhon with Dwight and that's enough to at least secure the lead if nothing else.

2. Play Morris with someone who can pass and get people involved: Kobe and Pau. If that doesn't build his confidence, nothing will. Park him in the corner and let him rip the baseline 3, because the kid can hit those. This enables Pau to work more in the post too. That's always a bonus.

3. Play Jamison at the 4 with Dwight and create plays for him. He will score, I guarantee it.

4. Play Hill with Pau, for some hustle and extra rebounds. He's tough and Pau can set him up for an easy dunk (which he did last night, for example). Dwight can't set Hill up; in fact the two of them will end up causing a turnover while fighting for the same rebound.

Here are some suggestions:

Nash/Meeks/Ebanks/Jamison/Dwight (this one should kill most teams once they build some chemistry)

Blake/Kobe/Metta/Hill/Pau (get the ball out of Metta's hands and create an open shot for him; he can easily handle the minutes now that he's in shape. Blake, Kobe and Pau can get him involved)

Morris/Kobe/Ebanks/Hill/Pau

Duhon/Meeks/Ebanks/Jamison/Dwight

Garbage minutes for

Duhon/Meeks/Ebanks/Jamison/Sacre

I would put Morris here, but he just can't create for anybody, while Duhon can get Meeks and Jamison open shots. But again, that's garbage time, last 4 minutes of the game, so whatever. As you can see, I'm trying to enable Jamison to play with the bench guys and with the starters. Give him minutes. He needs to play more. Run plays for him. He can score 10 ppg easily. Let Dwight clean the boards when he misses. Meeks can flat out shoot; he needs Duhon or Nash to give him an easy look. You get the idea. You want to re-enforce Pau and make us tougher? Play Hill next to him and Pau will return the favor with his beautiful passes. Make Pau the point pivot and give him the green light to work and score in the post.

Anyone agree? Does this make any sense to you guys?
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby Ariza3 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:53 am

mike brown isnt putting jamison out there to score like he should...hes putting him out there just to put a body in until he can bring pau or dwight back in. its terrible. the guy can score...he has throughout his entire career. he needs plays run just for him or be able to play with a PG who knows that he needs to be set up.

if he gets going now throughout the season, when it comes playoff time he can be that x factor. he needs more time and more plays made for him. hes been forced to just play the peremeter and hand the ball off every time. its ridiculously idiotic. seriously hope this isnt whats in store the entire season. our bench cant just be bodies to play D when the starters are out. good teams have a bench that can step up and take over a game.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby purp n gold on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:01 am

Jamison will struggle until he is a post/pick man in our half-court sets. He can face up & score against 4's, but not against 3's. Again, don't know what Mike Brown is thinking.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby Weezy on Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:54 pm

Alright, so I know Jamison has sucked so far this season, but I still believe he's been misused, and I have to think he didn't like Brown's style because he never really looked into games or engaged at all. One thing I have to think if Phil comes back, is that Jamison would be used properly, maybe even like LO was off the bench for us, more more of a main guy, maybe even THE main guy. Brown doesn't know how to use benches, and while Phil wasn't perfect at it, he would know that Meeks needs to play, and that Jamison should be more involved. Actually I have to think no matter who we hire that Jamison's going to improve, he really has nowhere to go but up the way he's playing now.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby BDG on Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:56 pm

I'm still reserving judgment on the players until I see them with a legitimate head coach on the sidelines ...

... Jamison being one of those guys.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby WilliamHaven on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:19 pm

Surprise Surprise....playing at the 4, and having a very good game.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby therealdeal on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:20 pm

WHAT A BLOCK
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby Weezy on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:35 pm

I wouldn't call it a great game by him, but he was in his correct position, he was given more time, and he was way more involved. He was invisible under Brown, tonight even though most of his shots weren't falling, he was at least a factor. If the shots start falling, we'll have something, but at least he's taking them now.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby lakersyunowin on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:36 pm

dat block
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby therealdeal on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:38 pm

Weezy wrote:I wouldn't call it a great game by him, but he was in his correct position, he was given more time, and he was way more involved. He was invisible under Brown, tonight even though most of his shots weren't falling, he was at least a factor. If the shots start falling, we'll have something, but at least he's taking them now.

For sure he's still far from where we want him, but you've really got to appreciate that he came out of his shell a bit. It's clear that Brown had no use for him and did NOTHING to help him or his confidence.
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Re: Antawn Jamison Discussion: Struggling or Lost in Shuffle?

Postby karacha on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:55 pm

Better. Can do a lot more, but this is a step in the right direction for Jamison. He even played some D, just seemed more... energized I guess. He can only get better.
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