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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby XXIV on Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:31 am

It's not the worst thing to happen, but I'd much rather sign Pietrus over Barnes at this point.
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby Battle Tested20 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:33 am

XXIV wrote:It's not the thing to happen, but I'd much rather sign Pietrus over Barnes at this point.

I think we all would but the fact and problem is the Pietrus still wants to get paid and has said he doesn't want to sign for the vet's minimum. That and the fact that I think we gave Ebanks and his agent the assurances that he'd be backup SF
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby Helljumper on Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:06 pm

Barnes was easily our best bench player last year. I don't know where all this talk about him being inconsistent or unproductive is coming from. Yes, he sucked in the playoffs, but so did everyone else. The injury affected him physically and it threw him off of his rhythm because he was playing great before it. His numbers in April were 9 points, 8 boards, 3 assists on 45% shooting and 37% from the three point line.

I understand the viewpoint of those who are saying that we need to give Ebanks a chance. I agree. He's young and looks like he has the potential to be a solid role-player for a long time. But what if we give him this opportunity to have the back-up SF role all to himself ... and he doesn't show us anything worthwhile? Then we're left with a big hole in our bench.

Also, he had his best seasons playing alongside Nash and Dwight. I was following a Magic board during the Dwightmare, and at one point, they were talking about how Dwight actively recruited Barnes (the Magic fans were actually kind of salty that Barnes was the only free agent it seemed like Dwight pushed hard for).
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby Phil XI on Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:14 pm

Barnes' jersey retirement ceremony April 3rd, as long as we're glorifying dbags.
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby Center Court on Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:31 pm

I'd love Barnes back. While Ebanks has some talent and can maybe a solid role player at some point, right now we can already 100% count on Matt and know what he'll give. Energy, movement, slashing, offensive boards, and a mean streak.

Kobe was in Ebanks corner HARD before last season. So on that front, I'm sure people inside Lakerland see something they really like. But, if he doesn't pan out this year, where do we go? Kobe and Jamison getting back up 3 mins?

My guess is that we've moved on from Barnes, but I'd love to have him back.
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby ben_ready on Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:35 pm

I prefer Dominic mcquire. Stronger, younger, hungrier. We got to think wade and labron,Durant and westbrook, and Parker yell™
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby FabFourLakers on Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:53 pm

I wouldn't mind bringing him back for vet's min. Like others have said, he had some of his best seasons with Nash and Dwight. I think a bench of Blake, Meeks, Barnes, Jamsion and Hill is probably among the top 5 benches in the league. I do like Ebanks and want to give him a shot, but like others have said, what if he comes up short as our back up sf? Then we'll be forced to play Kobe at the 3 or MWP more minutes...but then again, we can also play Jamison at the 3 so it wouldn't be as bad as we think....

I say go for Barnes though....we have a roster spot open too.
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby therealdeal on Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:53 pm

Helljumper wrote:Barnes was easily our best bench player last year. I don't know where all this talk about him being inconsistent or unproductive is coming from. Yes, he sucked in the playoffs, but so did everyone else. The injury affected him physically and it threw him off of his rhythm because he was playing great before it. His numbers in April were 9 points, 8 boards, 3 assists on 45% shooting and 37% from the three point line.

I think that's more a statement of how bad our bench was than how great he was. When Barnes is your go-to guy, that's a problem.

I call Matt Barnes inconsistent because he's terribly streaky. His average for that month may look fine, but from April 1-9 he shot 3/16 from deep. Then he shoots great for 4 games, then the last four he shoots 2/10 from deep. And while he did well in March and April, he shot only 29% from deep in February and 24% in January. He's very streaky, so his 3 point shooting doesn't come in handy the way people are making it out to be.
Helljumper wrote:I understand the viewpoint of those who are saying that we need to give Ebanks a chance. I agree. He's young and looks like he has the potential to be a solid role-player for a long time. But what if we give him this opportunity to have the back-up SF role all to himself ... and he doesn't show us anything worthwhile? Then we're left with a big hole in our bench.

At that time we can call up Matt or call up Terrence Williams or maybe Josh Howard if he still doesn't have a team. McGrady is still unsigned. There's other options available. Not to mention, we can slide Jamison up or Kobe down.
Helljumper wrote:Also, he had his best seasons playing alongside Nash and Dwight.

Actually his numbers with Nash are all pretty pedestrian. Yeah, he averaged the most points in his career, but it was with an inflated offensive system and he shot terribly from the field. His best season ever was probably with Orlando the following year, but all of those numbers are VERY close to what he did last season. He's not going to be much different than he has been his whole career and if he gets better with Nash and Howard, it'll be marginal at best. Ebanks has a shot at matching that production while being faster, more athletic, and better defensively.
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:04 pm

Phil XI wrote:Barnes' jersey retirement ceremony April 3rd, as long as we're glorifying dbags.


You can always change your name to Phil VIII, if you don't want to recognize one of the main pieces that made your username.
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby last stand on Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:11 pm

i hate barnes, plays no defense, always gets untimely technicals, fouls like crazy, can't shoot

all he can do is get a couple hustle rebounds, and cut to the basket.

pietrus had a better defensive rating, and tracy mcgrady barely had a worse defensive rating(barely)

so i'd rather have one of those 2
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby dj vitus on Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:27 pm

No.
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:38 pm

No thanks. Terrence Williams and his antics would be better - with Kobe, Nash, Ron and Gasol to mentor him and keep him in check.

Barnes seemed worse that Fish at finishing around the rim and missing wide open layups last year. And his defense is now Machine-esq -- annoys you like a nat, but fouls way too much.

Definitely rather have Pietris (if he takes the minimum), Williams, McGrady, or Thornton.
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby Helljumper on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:06 pm

therealdeal wrote:I think that's more a statement of how bad our bench was than how great he was. When Barnes is your go-to guy, that's a problem.

I call Matt Barnes inconsistent because he's terribly streaky. His average for that month may look fine, but from April 1-9 he shot 3/16 from deep. Then he shoots great for 4 games, then the last four he shoots 2/10 from deep. And while he did well in March and April, he shot only 29% from deep in February and 24% in January. He's very streaky, so his 3 point shooting doesn't come in handy the way people are making it out to be.

I never said Barnes was great or a go-to-guy. He wasn't our go-to-guy off the bench last year and he wouldn't be this year. That was the problem with our bench last year IMO. We didn't have a go-to-guy and nobody attempted to step up and become one. Everyone tried to play within their role, but because of that, the group collectively suffered because they had no one to carry them. I don't think that's going to be an issue this year now that we have some legitimate scorers. That's why I don't mind having Blake and Ebanks coming off the bench. Now, even if Blake just brings the ball up and camps at the line, or if Ebanks only cuts and shoots the occasional open mid-range jumper, it won't hurt the offense as much since we can always just dump it to Jamison and let him do his thing. I just think Barnes has proven he can more consistently provide the intangibles in that supporting role than Ebanks.

And about his three-point shooting, yes, it is inconsistent. But give me 24% in his worst shooting month over Ebanks' 0% any day. But more importantly, I don't think it really matters. You've made this argument in defense of Ebanks and I partially agree; our back-up SF doesn't need to be a three point threat now if they can help us out in other ways. With Ebanks, it would be his mid-range shot. With Barnes, it would be his ability to slash, get easy buckets, and get offensive boards (all of which he has proven to do much better than Ebanks). The fact that Barnes at least has the ability to shoot well from three-point range (even if he's streaky and it rarely happens) is a bonus since defenses won't be able to sag off of him as much as they would for Ebanks.

therealdeal wrote:At that time we can call up Matt or call up Terrence Williams or maybe Josh Howard if he still doesn't have a team. McGrady is still unsigned. There's other options available. Not to mention, we can slide Jamison up or Kobe down.

I think those options are going to dry up as we get closer to the start of the season. I don't think any of those players you mentioned (including Barnes) will be available in the middle of the season, and I think it's best if we get our roster set as soon as possible so everyone has a full training camp together.

Also, I've always been against the idea of playing Jamison or Kobe at 3. I'd hope we would try to reduce Kobe's minutes this year and I don't see Jamison being able to match up defensively with many opposing back-up 3's.

therealdeal wrote:Actually his numbers with Nash are all pretty pedestrian. Yeah, he averaged the most points in his career, but it was with an inflated offensive system and he shot terribly from the field. His best season ever was probably with Orlando the following year, but all of those numbers are VERY close to what he did last season. He's not going to be much different than he has been his whole career and if he gets better with Nash and Howard, it'll be marginal at best. Ebanks has a shot at matching that production while being faster, more athletic, and better defensively.

You're right. I don't actually expect playing alongside Nash or Dwight to noticeably improve Matt's game, but it definitely wouldn't hurt and it's noteworthy that he at least already has some sort of relationship with them.

But yeah, your last sentence is spot on and it's why I won't be losing any sleep if we don't bring back Barnes. I like Ebanks, but personally, I don't think it's likely he'll be able to match Barnes production from last year. But like you said, he at least has the chance to do so while making us younger. And even if he doesn't, it really won't hurt us that much.
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby KB24 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:18 pm

pass....back to back choke jobs, old, not on the same page with Mike Brown...potential headache
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby Azndude2190 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:20 pm

He's way better than our summer league trash and I'd rather have him over Ebanks. We are no longer developing young talent anymore. We're making a push for a final championship run with Kobe at the head, which means we need proven veterans.
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby last stand on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:06 pm

Azndude2190 wrote:He's way better than our summer league trash and I'd rather have him over Ebanks. We are no longer developing young talent anymore. We're making a push for a final championship run with Kobe at the head, which means we need proven veterans.


so then why barnes. he's only proven that he plays below average defense, makes not shots, loses his cool once a game at a minimum, and all of that gets even worse in the playoffs

so if we are going for it all why would we sign barnes
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby ThizGuy83 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:32 pm

matt barnes never said wut type of deal... for all we know it could be a deal that he wont come back
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby Azndude2190 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:42 pm

last stand wrote:
Azndude2190 wrote:He's way better than our summer league trash and I'd rather have him over Ebanks. We are no longer developing young talent anymore. We're making a push for a final championship run with Kobe at the head, which means we need proven veterans.


so then why barnes. he's only proven that he plays below average defense, makes not shots, loses his cool once a game at a minimum, and all of that gets even worse in the playoffs

so if we are going for it all why would we sign barnes


You realize he won't be playing a significant role on our team right? He was solid player in the regular season and hit a rut on offense during the playoffs (so did everyone else on the team).
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby last stand on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:49 pm

Azndude2190 wrote:
last stand wrote:
Azndude2190 wrote:He's way better than our summer league trash and I'd rather have him over Ebanks. We are no longer developing young talent anymore. We're making a push for a final championship run with Kobe at the head, which means we need proven veterans.


so then why barnes. he's only proven that he plays below average defense, makes not shots, loses his cool once a game at a minimum, and all of that gets even worse in the playoffs

so if we are going for it all why would we sign barnes


You realize he won't be playing a significant role on our team right? He was solid player in the regular season and hit a rut on offense during the playoffs (so did everyone else on the team).


he hit a rut before the playoffs. he shot 45% and 33% from 3 despite having 81% of his points assisted upon. that means everything he did was created for him pretty much and yet he barely converted.

that and he's also a headache. challenged mike brown early in the season, complaining to everyone who would listen

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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:52 pm

Helljumper wrote:Barnes was easily our best bench player last year. I don't know where all this talk about him being inconsistent or unproductive is coming from. Yes, he sucked in the playoffs, but so did everyone else. The injury affected him physically and it threw him off of his rhythm because he was playing great before it. His numbers in April were 9 points, 8 boards, 3 assists on 45% shooting and 37% from the three point line.

I understand the viewpoint of those who are saying that we need to give Ebanks a chance. I agree. He's young and looks like he has the potential to be a solid role-player for a long time. But what if we give him this opportunity to have the back-up SF role all to himself ... and he doesn't show us anything worthwhile? Then we're left with a big hole in our bench.

Also, he had his best seasons playing alongside Nash and Dwight. I was following a Magic board during the Dwightmare, and at one point, they were talking about how Dwight actively recruited Barnes (the Magic fans were actually kind of salty that Barnes was the only free agent it seemed like Dwight pushed hard for).

Not Kobe, Bynum, or World Peace.

Anyways I really don't think Barnes is an upgrade over Ebanks at this point so why bring him back?
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby therealdeal on Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:31 pm

Helljumper wrote:
I never said Barnes was great or a go-to-guy. He wasn't our go-to-guy off the bench last year and he wouldn't be this year. That was the problem with our bench last year IMO. We didn't have a go-to-guy and nobody attempted to step up and become one. Everyone tried to play within their role, but because of that, the group collectively suffered because they had no one to carry them. I don't think that's going to be an issue this year now that we have some legitimate scorers. That's why I don't mind having Blake and Ebanks coming off the bench. Now, even if Blake just brings the ball up and camps at the line, or if Ebanks only cuts and shoots the occasional open mid-range jumper, it won't hurt the offense as much since we can always just dump it to Jamison and let him do his thing. I just think Barnes has proven he can more consistently provide the intangibles in that supporting role than Ebanks.

And about his three-point shooting, yes, it is inconsistent. But give me 24% in his worst shooting month over Ebanks' 0% any day. But more importantly, I don't think it really matters. You've made this argument in defense of Ebanks and I partially agree; our back-up SF doesn't need to be a three point threat now if they can help us out in other ways. With Ebanks, it would be his mid-range shot. With Barnes, it would be his ability to slash, get easy buckets, and get offensive boards (all of which he has proven to do much better than Ebanks). The fact that Barnes at least has the ability to shoot well from three-point range (even if he's streaky and it rarely happens) is a bonus since defenses won't be able to sag off of him as much as they would for Ebanks.

I actually agree with our bench not having a consistent, legitimate threat was a problem. But the issue was that the responsibilities usually fell to Matt in those times, which was bad for so many reasons. As for Ebanks, everyone keeps saying "three pointer, three pointer" but I just want a consistent jumper. He's actually a pretty good shooter from 16 feet to the three point line. Everyone also says "He shot 0% from deep". Well yeah, but he only took 12 threes. If Matt took 12 threes he would have made... 3. All season long. So it's not like that percentage can be taken seriously.

Not necessarily calling you out or anything, just voicing some things that I've seen.

Helljumper wrote:I think those options are going to dry up as we get closer to the start of the season. I don't think any of those players you mentioned (including Barnes) will be available in the middle of the season, and I think it's best if we get our roster set as soon as possible so everyone has a full training camp together.

Also, I've always been against the idea of playing Jamison or Kobe at 3. I'd hope we would try to reduce Kobe's minutes this year and I don't see Jamison being able to match up defensively with many opposing back-up 3's.

True, those guys might find a team, but there will almost always be swing players available. There's more swing players out there than any other position. And I honestly don't think Barnes is going to get a team soon. Maybe after an injury to someone, but who is he really good enough to play with? He's good for depth, but that's about it.

I'm okay with Kobe playing more minutes at the SF because it doesn't have to mean more minutes in general. All we do is play Meeks more minutes at the backup 2. That guy started 40 games last season.
Jamison playing at the 3 is fine because we'll have Howard backing him up and Jamison can go at him on the other end of the court in the post all game long.

Helljumper wrote:You're right. I don't actually expect playing alongside Nash or Dwight to noticeably improve Matt's game, but it definitely wouldn't hurt and it's noteworthy that he at least already has some sort of relationship with them.

But yeah, your last sentence is spot on and it's why I won't be losing any sleep if we don't bring back Barnes. I like Ebanks, but personally, I don't think it's likely he'll be able to match Barnes production from last year. But like you said, he at least has the chance to do so while making us younger. And even if he doesn't, it really won't hurt us that much.

I wouldn't mind signing him for depth if someone goes down, that's one thing. But just like to give Sessions a shot we had to trade Fisher, if we want to let Ebanks have the chance here we need to not give Mike Brown the opportunity to not use him.
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby OX1947 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:13 pm

I agree that Ebanks has to get an opportunity to play so Barnes should not be signed. If that is the case, gotta give Ebanks a consistent 15-20 min a game at that point. And Ebanks will need to get his 3 point shot on point and be able to slash a little more then he has. I'm sure Nash will help in that department. I am a firm believer that a great PG not only creates opportunities to marginal players, but ups their confidence 10 fold because those players know they will have the opportunity to get the ball a lot. If Ebanks gives us 6-8 points off the bench, Jamison 12-14 and Meeks another 10 or so, this team will win 70 games if no injures happen.
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby Lakerjones on Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:59 pm

I'm very much on the fence with this one. I may be in the minority here, but I still like Barnes and his game. Yes, he's not much of a threat in terms of shooting but I love the hardcore hustle and the garbage points he gets.

However, the time is definitely now if we are planning on developing Ebanks. As mentioned by the poster above, if you sign Barnes then you throw that down the drain. Brown already showed he won't play Devin as third string SF. Signing Barnes means Ebanks won't get the minutes he needs to make his signing this year worthwhile and it's only a one year contract - so he'll be gone.

I think I'd take my chances with Ebanks at least for now. If he isn't really panning out then pick up another vet somewhere at the deadline.
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby Jellincon on Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:33 pm

Can you blame the guy for wanting to be on the winning side? What idiot (besides Sessions :disagree: ) would want to pass up the opportunity of playing alongside Kobe, Nash, Howard, and Gasol and possibly/most likely getting a ring? If he is willing to sacrifice some of his minutes to give Ebanks a chance and keep his mouth shut about it, bringing Barnes back wouldn't be that bad of an idea. You can never have too much insurance...or can you? :man3:
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Re: Matt Barnes Still Talking About A Deal With The Lakers?

Postby Kobe8Fan on Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:36 pm

Lakers do need a 3rd string SF.
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