Blake Griffin Ready To Share Closer Duties With Chris Paul

Re: Blake Griffin Ready To Share Closer Duties With Chris Paul

Postby Rooscooter on Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:37 pm

^^When have you been here to Inquire or learn? You made no attempt to do anything but deflect and then ended with the ad hominem approach that I'm old and disconnected with today's game.

Paul has had little to no success when it counts.... you say it's his teammates fault.... I say there is more to it than that.... To brush off all of his failures as his teammates is a pretty shallow argument if you have actually watched how he played in those series over the years..... and yes... I did watch them. You may be the one that isn't in touch with what he's done.... and not done. Maybe that's why "Teams" and stats are prominent in your "discussion" and not results and actions.

All Pau needed was the right teammates as well I guess...... That argument can be made for any failed leader/supposed "franchise player". Why not add Bosh and Garnett in the mix.... All guys that the media loves to make excuses for. Paul is considered by the supposed pundits to be a "Franchise Talent" and a "Super Star".... yet he's not ever elevated his game even with (in your terms) inferior teammates. Pau had similar failures.... interestingly Kobe didn't when he had crap teammates.... waaay worse than Peja, West, Chandler, and Jackson. In fact Jackson would have been the second leading scorer and a significant player if he had been on out 06 team. He was the 6th man on Paul's so called "sucky" team...... that finished seeded second in the West.

I look forward to your triumphant return to our cozy little forum to "learn" and "inquire"....
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Re: Blake Griffin Ready To Share Closer Duties With Chris Paul

Postby Iceberg Slim on Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:01 am

^^When have you been here to Inquire or learn? You made no attempt to do anything but deflect and then ended with the ad hominem approach that I'm old and disconnected with today's game.


I'm always down for "Food for Thought" discussions. It's why we come to messageboards. And I never called you old lol. You called yourself old. I have no idea how old you are. Disconnected? Possibly. I gave two options. The other was you being a homer, which is fine. This is a Laker site. He's a Clipper. But it's easy for me to say that when one's analysis is that a player like "CP can't create off the dribble" (which is asinine)...so I'd displayed a video. I'd only rank a healthy Derrick Rose, Lebron James, and Kobe Bryant over him in that category. Seriously, if you don't think he can't do that at high level, you probably don't watch him...or you're a hater. That goes for anyone, not you particularly.

Paul has had little to no success when it counts.... you say it's his teammates fault.... I say there is more to it than that....


You're entitled to that, all day long. Listen, Paul isn't perfect. No player is. But the reason why he hasn't won, isn't due to his flawed skills as player/person.

Are you willing to go on record and say that's the case? You like to ignore certain questions, so answer that one. I'd love for you to do that Rooscooter. That will put this to rest. Because that's the crux of my argument on this topic.

He's never been put into position to win with a team who honestly had a chance to advance to a WCF or a Final...until now. Do you really think the Hornets were going to knock off San An and LA in succession back in 08? :man10:

You know what's the best thing about this argument? We can all revisit this thread come spring/summer. We can track all the games, all the performances, all the match-ups, high and lows of the season etc. etc. and come back to this spot. Because with Doc Rivers at the helm, the addition of Darren Collison/Redick/J.Dudley along with J-Craw coming off the bench, they have a legitimate shot at a title run (again) barring injury. Nothing promised. The Spurs are still the Spurs and OKC is coming back with a vengeance. But will you be surprised if they go to the Finals in 2014 or 2015? I won't. I'm betting on 2015.

I look forward to your triumphant return to our cozy little forum to "learn" and "inquire"....


I'm back, just for you to drop knowledge upon me. The mic is yours...
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Re: Blake Griffin Ready To Share Closer Duties With Chris Paul

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:59 pm

Wow.... time's flying.... It's been a week already? :man1:

For the record.... it's my opinion that Paul's game and his lack of leadership in the clutch that has prevented his teams from going further. Has he had a championship team? Well you should know the answer to that if I'm of the mind that Paul is not up to the task shouldn't you?

We will see. I won't be surprised if they make it there.... I will, however, if he begins to lead, play off the ball and keep his teammates involved in something other than open court dunks and corner 3's. Those things don't come easy as you get deeper in the Playoffs.

As for keeping track of regular season games..... that's for Fantasy players and stat watchers. In case you don't know.... I'm not a fan of either "filter" for watching or evaluating basketball players. Both are activities that are much closer to "Scrapbooking" than sports analysis IMHO....

The post season is where it's at.... and Paul hasn't gotten it yet. I'm of the mind that it's him... not his teammates.... you see it differently. We will see...
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded." Dwight Eisenhower

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Re: Blake Griffin Ready To Share Closer Duties With Chris Paul

Postby Iceberg Slim on Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:17 am

As for keeping track of regular season games..... that's for Fantasy players and stat watchers. In case you don't know.... I'm not a fan of either "filter" for watching or evaluating basketball players. Both are activities that are much closer to "Scrapbooking" than sports analysis IMHO....


And there it is.

This is precisely what I wanted to highlight about your stance on NBA, it's players, and the storylines that make the league exactly what it is.

I prefer a full body of work. I need a full body of work. I can't (logically) cast an opinion on what happens only in the playoffs to a player or team. To do such, means to have missed the nuance of a teams psychology, emotional state, and identity. It's why we are baffled every year that San Antonio and Duncan don't have 6-7 rings already. They're the New England Patriots of the league. Based on regular season play and playoff potential, they always put themselves in position to win...and lose, repeatedly. That's fascinating. And to not watch the ebbs and flows of that robs you of a basketball experience. I'm watch the game for THAT.

My apologies, but I'm going to rant for a moment...

Nothing was more intriguing than trying to see what the Heat could do once they linked up - in the regular season. Laker fan or not, if you didn't watch that happen as much as you could, you weren't a basketball fan. Watching A.I. during the 2001 season (the entire season) was like Christmas. His only MVP year. The pinnacle of one of the greatest scoring machines basketball has ever known. Volume shooter, yes! Inefficient, sure. Blood thirsty, cold-hearted, ruthless killer on the wood every night, hungrier than your best player? You better believe it. I can't miss that during the regular season Roos. I know winners and champions are made in the playoffs. That's obvious. This is sports. We all know this. But I'm checking to see what Anthony Bennett does this year and how Kyrie is taking over the world in the regular season. Chances are, they're not going to be around late in P.O.'s. But that's what's great about the NBA and the league, sports in it's entirety. Minnesota, where no one wants to live, had a KG implanted in their backyard. They sucked for years. Watching him grow up in the league from 18 to his late 20's, regular season, playoffs, whatever, that was special. And I watch ball for THAT. And watching the new President of the Players Association play the game, from my cousin's North Carolina AAU Team, to local Wake Forest for Skip Prosser, to the top of the point guard world is in one word - dope.

I guess we can agree to disagree. Because I think we're about see Chris Paul in position to do many of things I've said within the next 1-2 years... which will probably conclude in his first MVP. Kobe's bowing out, Lebron is getting full from championships, and someone needs to walk to the dinner table. With Doc Rivers, my prediction is that Chris Paul does exactly that. We'll stay tuned.
Last edited by Iceberg Slim on Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Blake Griffin Ready To Share Closer Duties With Chris Paul

Postby TIME on Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:34 pm

I'm hoping that both of you can keep your debate on CP3 as sharp as it needs to be without falling further into the personal comments trap. It's a good debate.

For the record Slim, without stepping into the debate I can vouch that Roos' views on CP3 are not based in homerism. He was saying the same thing when the news broke that CP3 had just become a Laker.
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Re: Blake Griffin Ready To Share Closer Duties With Chris Paul

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:20 am

Iceberg Slim wrote:
[i]And there it is.

This is precisely what I wanted to highlight about your stance on NBA, it's players, and the storylines that make the league exactly what it is.


:man3:

And there what is?

The regular season consists of games against different opponents every night. Very few teams game-plan for every opponent in the regular season....... That, In a nutshell, explains San Antonio AND Chris Paul's failures IMO.

What I was pointing out is stat watching and relating it to player value is misleading at best IMO. Additionally, watching someone like Paul for 82, when 65 of them are against inferior competition and drawing a conclusion is worthless. Paul has been neutralized effectively in the playoffs 3 separate times by San Antonio and if you looked at the stats alone you'd think it was the other players that were largely responsible for the loss.....yet if you analyze the games you'd see something different. Paul entering the offense with 8 or 9 less seconds on the clock..... Still dribbling the ball up the court in the face of pressure instead of breaking it by passing. ...... When denied the ball he would go to the ball allowing one player to cover two rather than work off the ball to get it back....dominating most possessions until very late in the clock....etc.

Pop even said a few years back the biggest difference between Paul and Parker was that Parker had a game without the ball and that by slowing Paul down it effectively freezes his teammates out of the possession until the very end and results in hurried shots. That follows Paul from team to team and coach to coach. I don't see a new coach and new teammates changing that much if at all.

All of this may, in some remote way, be correctable, but the fact that his first thought in a tight situation is to trick the Ref into a call isn't. That base mentality resulted in 3 straight attempts to draw a foul by flailing his arms and flopping/yelling at the refs in the final minute plus against SA a couple years ago in a 2 point game. Each possession was the same..... Set up 2 or 3 screens to get the mismatch and jump into Duncan's chest.... That is who he is. His reactions after the game toward his teammates and the Refs were also less than leadership material.

He postured this offseason to get a coach and players that he wanted...... So essentially blaming last years results on his coach and teammates...... Yet that same group won more games and the division in the regular season......and finished at the same spot he's always finished in the playoffs. Better in the regular season..... same in the post season....

Just to be clear here..... Ice... you think a guy who does this is...


Is in the right mental state to lead? Who worth a damn would follow someone who cheats the game in such a blatant way? After the no call he even barks at the Ref... :disagree:
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded." Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it" Thomas Sowell
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