BULLS - RAPTORS TRADE

BULLS - RAPTORS TRADE

Postby Bulls Fan on Fri Nov 21, 2003 4:21 pm

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/6853311


check it out...tell me what you think...i dont know about trading Marshall...but you guys would know better about the raptors then me.

Jalen Rose and Doneyll Marshall
FOR
Antonio Davis, Jerome Williams, Alvin Williams, and Moris Peterson.
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Postby FabFourLakers on Fri Nov 21, 2003 4:29 pm

OH SH*T!!!

that is a horrible trade for toronto! who is gonna be their center when davis leaves? They'll have no big men!

GREAT trade for tha bulls! They'll get a great defender/rebounder in jerome williams, a savvy point guard in alvin williams, a young and athletic forward in mo-pete, and a great power forward who can help out curry and chandler on tha boards....wow tha bulls would be HUGE with that lineup...curry chandler jerome williams antonio davis marcus fizer and lonny baxter...
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Postby Bulls Fan on Fri Nov 21, 2003 4:37 pm

REALLY...ok then i hope they do it. man i just want to make the 8th seed.
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Postby lakerchris2004 on Fri Nov 21, 2003 4:52 pm

ON Espn Shootaround they just said that it would be finalized either tonight or tommorow but that davis and marshall aren't in the deal. It's:

Raptors get: Jalen Rose

Bulls get: Mo Peterson
Alvin Williams
Jerome Williams


Interesting Trade. Good for the Raps, maybe they can finally crack the 90 point mark. lol!!
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Postby Bulls Fan on Fri Nov 21, 2003 4:58 pm

so is that still a good trade for the bulls? i mean i want get rid of rose...but not for a bunch of wash ups...i dont know anything about those other guys so thats why i ask.
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Postby lakerchris2004 on Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:01 pm

Well, so far this season the three guys that the Bulls traded for have done NOTHING for the Raptors. Who knows, maybe a scene change will do them some good.
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Postby Bulls Fan on Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:05 pm

you think like...ohh maybe...8th seed???? haha
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Postby FabFourLakers on Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:09 pm

oh no...gettin jus THOSE 3 for rose? thats not a good trade, gettin davis would spice up tha trade tho...but why are they trading rose then? it'll be jus another stupid trade by tha bulls! but i dunno hopefully these 3 can contribute...but maybe this will open tha door for curry and chandler to put up more points...and mo-pete might come in right away and contribute...
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Postby lakerchris2004 on Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:15 pm

Bulls Fan wrote:you think like...ohh maybe...8th seed???? haha


LOL. We'll see I guess.

My predictions:

1) Detroit
2) New Orleans
3) Indiana
4) New Jersey
5) Philly
6) Boston
7) Milwakee
8) Cleveland

Others left: Chicago, Washinton, Atlanta, Toronto, New York, Orlando,
Miami

At the beginning everyone assumed that Orlando would make it and it would be a fight for the 8th spot. Now I think it will be a fight for the 7th and 8th spot. I think Chicago has a chance at the 8th spot. We'll see.....
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Postby Bulls Fan on Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:17 pm

Yeah i guess we will see. At least the bulls tied their road win record from last year. haha pathetic.

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Postby Kobe834 on Fri Nov 21, 2003 8:37 pm

bad trade for TORONTO!!! Is Jalen Rose really that valuable? I mean 15 ppg is good but that trade is wack. Then again, Toronto's wack so....
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Postby Bulls Fan on Fri Nov 21, 2003 8:52 pm

not to mention Rose shoots BARELY 40%.
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Postby Kobe834 on Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:01 pm

yea, yea...yup, yup. Morris is aight, I dont think the Raps should trade him.
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Postby JSM on Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:05 pm

here is who may be involved

Yahoo Sports: The Chicago Bulls and Toronto Raptors were involved in serious trade discussions Friday for a deal that would include Jalen Rose, Antonio Davis and others, The Associated Press learned.

Other players whose names have come up in the talks include Alvin Williams, Jerome Williams and Morris Peterson of the Raptors and Eddie Robinson and Donyell Marshall of the Bulls.
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Postby Kobe834 on Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:18 pm

there ya have it
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Postby JSM on Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:20 pm

this trade could actually be quite beneficial for the Raptors. It gives them another scorer (Rose) to help Vince out, so he doesn't have to carry the whole load by himself. It would give them a good back up for Vince, who could come in and score (E. Robinson). And even though they would be losing Davis...they would be getting another power forward that can score (Marshall). So in them making this trade it adds offense to their team, and would give them a legitimate chance to make the playoffs and do well in them.
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Postby rydjorker121 on Fri Nov 21, 2003 10:52 pm

benficial to the Bulls is more like it...they don't need Rose, they could get Alvin Williams, a legit PG, Mo Pete another proven scorer, and Jerome Williams a good PF hustler and defender...but Rose clearly seems affected by these rumors, he shot so poorly (even open shots) against us tonight
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Postby LakersGyrl2003 on Fri Nov 21, 2003 10:55 pm

Now onder why Jalen had a bad night tonight.. I was wonderin what was up...
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Postby JSM on Fri Nov 21, 2003 11:01 pm

Peterson and A. Williams have done absolutely nothing for them this year. I would trade them too...look at their stats.

Peterson's point production:
11/09 DEN 6
11/11 POR 9
11/12 LAL 16
11/14 SAC 3
11/16 HOU 0
11/19 PHI 8


A. William's point production:
11/09 DEN 4
11/11 POR 0
11/12 LAL 2
11/14 SAC 0
11/16 HOU 4
11/19 PHI 0


If these are their key guys that are supposed to be helping Vince, then they are doing a horrible job at it, I would send these guys to where ever I could...as long as I could get some offense in return, which they will
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Postby JSM on Fri Nov 21, 2003 11:15 pm

Oh yeah, and here are they guys Vince would be getting to help him. An actual supporting cast. Just look and you will see why the Raptors want to make this trade, why it will help them out, and prvide them with offense.

Rose's point production:
11/08 NO 34
11/10 DEN 7
11/12 BOS 20
11/13 MIN 25
11/15 SEA 19
11/18 PHO 7
11/21 LAL 5


Marshall's point production:
11/08 NO 22
11/10 DEN 14
11/12 BOS 9
11/13 MIN 11
11/15 SEA 10
11/18 PHO 2
11/21 LAL 13


E. Robinson's point production:
11/08 NO 2
11/10 DEN 8
11/12 BOS 4
11/13 MIN 4
11/15 SEA 0
11/18 PHO 7
11/21 LAL 8



Anyone can see how much better numbers those are than what the Raptors would be giving up. And any rebounds they would be missing with the loss of A. Davis and J. Williams would be made up by Rose and Marshall who tend to get their fare share of rebounds.
Last edited by JSM on Sat Nov 22, 2003 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby wongy on Sat Nov 22, 2003 12:50 am

:man7: Toronto are IDIOTS!! Jerome and Alvin Williams and Mo Peterson for just Jalen Rose??? How stupid can you be?? Toronto brass should be hanged if they go through with that deal!! :man7:
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Postby Bulls Fan on Sat Nov 22, 2003 1:13 am

Maybe those players just dont fit with Toronto...and would work better with Chicago.
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Re: BULLS - RAPTORS TRADE

Postby mv_ix on Sat Nov 22, 2003 7:00 am

Bulls Fan wrote:http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/6853311


check it out...tell me what you think...i dont know about trading Marshall...but you guys would know better about the raptors then me.

Jalen Rose and Doneyll Marshall
FOR
Antonio Davis, Jerome Williams, Alvin Williams, and Moris Peterson.


i see this, there isalso so a post that said dallas is involved, are some of these players just passing thru in order to go to dallas?

chicago will still have alot of young players. they will be pretty loaded at the pf spot.
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Postby BDG on Sat Nov 22, 2003 11:30 am

The Raptors are incredibly stupid to pull that trade.
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Postby rydjorker121 on Sat Nov 22, 2003 4:21 pm

definitely, nice stats jsm by the way, and Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall, and Eddie Robinson for Alvin Williams, Jerome Williams, and Morris Peterson...hell, there's a lot of trade rumors here...even throw in Antonio Davis if you must, he's not wanted up in Canada. Oh yes, and Marcus Fizer might be involved too, trades galore!

Here's the breakdown:
Mo Pete: Morris Peterson has all the potential in the world, and he can play the two or three spots, but last year was supposed to be his breakout year while Vince was injured, and he proved everybody wrong...by screwing up. He only shot like 38% from the field last year and even worse on threes...his defense ethics might make up for his lack of scoring, he's still young, he can score and find a place in this league...his shot is actually not bad...his stellar play and scoring might contribute sometime...it's just too many people expected so much out of him...so much for being a 21st pick....
BREAKDOWN: Great source of lure and trade bait. Many teams, including the Knicks, want him, and want him badly. But if he goes to Chicago in this blockbuster, then Chicago's got themselves a starter, replacement for Kendall Gill.

Junkyard Dog: Jerome Williams, a pretty unique player by his own right, is best described as a hound. He scraps and plays with heart on the defensive end, and surprisingly, also on the offensive end, can be a double-digit scorer when given the right minutes. Unusual PF, pretty quick but not a shotblocker, more of a stealer...anyhow he's a good defender with no range...and he shoots like 50% from the field, at least last year. Any team would do good to pick him up, he plays well, does what the coach wants him to do, does what he does back, loves the city, and think of a better version of Mark Madsen. Even if he has no jumpshot and can't hit free throws, Toronto doesn't want him anymore with the arrival of Chris Bosh--haha--the Bosh-Carter tandem. He, like Peterson, is also pretty good trade bait and might fit in with several capable teams.
BREAKDOWN: JDawg to Chicago? It might just fit, who knows, he can spell Tyson Chandler off the bench for help D...thats why the Bulls are trying to move Marcus Fizer, not that he is just injury-prone.

Alvin Williams: Alvin Williams has definitely lost his starting job in Toronto, to a guy called Milt Palacio. This is a move I don't understand, Williams plays more under control, is taller and a better passer than Palacio, but I guess Toronto is in rebuilding form; perhaps they want a speedy short point guard like Palacio, who's more defensive minded, which Kevin O'Neill would surely pray for. So Alvin looks like the odd man out of the lineup, he's not scoring and producing any minutes this year, and even Milt seems to be playing better than him. Last year he generated the assists and steals, and hardly turned the ball over, but his days seem numbered in Toronto because of their rebuilding mode.
BREAKDOWN; Williams is a good bait for Chicago to bite on, since he is very skilled as a PG and has been in the league for a while...he deserves a chance there, although Chicago might not make any use for him with Crawford, Pippen and Hinrich already trying to play.

Antonio Davis: A wizened vet who still can play rugged, post up and pound the glass. He is a true leader and there is no point for Toronto to really go yapping about trading a player of his caliber. When Keon Clark and the Dream left Toronto, Davis was forced to play center and he played the slot pretty well. Also a good FT shooter and jump shooter, and he helps his team a lot...shouldn't be included in the trade, although Davis looks frustrated enough to want out of Toronto. He is a little defensive minded and can be a good rebounder for Toronto, and getting Donyell Marshall for him is basically getting a younger version of him, but nonetheless, Antonio has more experience and should really be kept.
BREAKDOWN: Most likely, if the Raps even do trade, it would only be Morris Peterson, Jerome Williams and Alvin Williams...most of the guys who were on their rotation last season...not anymore. Sort of sad, but Davis really doesn't look like the odd man out...unless he's traded for a guy like Tyson Chandler, whom the Bulls don't want to trade, I see no point in trading Davis.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jalen Rose: The all-renowned star of this deal. In fact, Toronto's intent is to get a guy who can contribute in every aspect of the game, especially scoring...rebounds and assists are also in the category. Jalen is a true all-star and is the leader for the Bulls--so I don't know if it would be wise to trade him for a bunch of qualified yet overrated starters; and if that is the case Chicago needs to look for Jamal Crawford, Chandler, Curry and all of their youth to step it up. Pippen and Gill can't handle the entire veteranship together. On the flip side, Jalen would really help Toronto a lot...he and Carter are a tandem, and wait till Chris Bosh matures....then Toronto would be freaky. But the downside is that Toronto loses most of their core players, who actually did somewhat of an effective job last year, so hopefully Rose can pick up their slack if he gets traded.
BREAKDOWN: Rose is the man of this deal, just like Jamison and Walker were with the Mavs's trades over the course of the offseason. If this trade falls, and in my opinion, this choice is only up to chicago to get rid of Rose's fat contract--then they better hope for huge advantages and bigger plays out of their guys--and Toronto better hope for Rose to step it big for them.

Donyell Marshall: A truly underrated player, subjected to trade talks also. Earlier in the offseason there were trade talks about Marshall for Devean George, shows how much Chicago wants to get rid of Marshall, but now it seems that Marshall is in subject to trade for the Raps...he's not a bad player, shouldn't be trade bait, he's more like an icon...he can really do wonders even as a starter, has range, plays nice D, long arms, scores, rebounds like hell...off the bench he's dangerous, and he's proving that with Chicago right now. He may flourish as Bosh's tutor in Toronto, though.
BREAKDOWN: Shouldn't be traded. Doesn't has as much value as expected, but really makes an impact on any team.

Eddie Robinson: Nice finesse player, undrafted, but has yet to show his array of skills due to hard-knuckled injuries. Huge leaper, moderate wingspan, can play some D. More of a SF than a PF, but plays both nonetheless, can shoot and score...pretty underrated once again but has some value in trade bait, especially in a trade like this. Chicago doesn't have much use for him.
BREAKDOWN: Once again, this trade is up to chicago's choice to make. They can trade him; they don't really need him and don't have much playing time, which he may get in Toronto...a lineup of Palacio--Carter--Rose--Bosh--and perhaps Donyell Marshall at center...and then you have Eddie Robinson off the bench, so he can fluorish...injuries..?

Marcus Fizer: Chicago has been wanting to trade him ever since God gave Jesus life...no, just kidding, but it seems like he is subjected to all these trades...a bigger version of gary Trent and a lottery pick, Fizer is an offensive machine and dominates in the paint and in the glass...a sixth man when given 25 minutes a game...his other arsenals are pretty weak though, defense and rebounding may need improvement, but still, a spectacular player and valuable trade bait when he's not injured. Heavy too.
BREAKDOWN: Most likely, of all players, Chicago would want to get rid of Fizer the most, he's not a bust but they are really tired of his injuries especially now that they have Corie Blount and Donyell Marshall backing up Tyson Chandler. Fizer's days are numbered, but he is an above average PF and can get huge playing time for the Raps, if he is not injured...injured emphasized.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So these are all the guys susceptible to trade in this trade breakdown:


TORONTO
Morris Peterson
Alvin Williams
Jerome Williams
Antonio Davis


Other guys that may be vulnerable to trade but at the safe zone in terms of being traded:
Lamond Murray--injury last year tarnished his image; three-point specialist and scorer might be needed in Toronto though
Chris Jefferies--not much use for him but could be thrown in for salary cap reasons

CHICAGO
Jalen Rose
Donyell Marshall
Eddie Robinson
Marcus Fizer


Other guys...traded..safezone...
Jamal Crawford--great player and will be one, streaky, fast, passes, scores, but with J-Will injured might be needed
Tyson Chandler--not likely; but certainly isn't living up to expectations

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If all four of these guys switched teams, then obviously Toronto has the better chance, anyhow, Toronto looks better if they have a trade...they need guys like Rose and Marshall to pick up their fallen slack. Chicago can manage with a bunch of capable players, no star however, so it may not really help them lest someone suddenly take the huge leap to stardom, like Eddy Curry or Crawford.

But I suppose only a couple or three of these four players would each be traded in this blockbuster, so who knows?

***P.S. Please read....in fact, if all four players were traded for one another, according to TradeChecker, the trade WOULD be accepted....salaries match, especially since Davis and Rose each have huge fat ones***
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