Coach Pop

Coach Pop

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:27 pm

As many know I am a big fan of calling out the so-called greats when they fail if they are getting the praise. We have heard how great the man is and how he coaches circles around other coaches. Lakers fans have praised him, other fans and media experts a like too. Game 6 we saw the Spurs give up a 5 point lead in the last 20 seconds. We saw Timmy D on the bench when it mattered most. In game 7 we saw Tony Paker sitting on the bench while Manu made turnover and mistake after turnover and mistake. So what say you all.... Is this loss as much on Pop as anyone in the Spurs uniform?
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby GNC on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:35 pm

Definitely for all the reasons you mentioned.

1) letting Manu play out of control hurt them... BIG time. Manu was playing like absolute trash but it was Pops job to pull the plug and he didn't. I don't care what Manu has done in the past but when he keeps turning the ball over and hoisting shots a few seconds into the shot clock you need to try something else.
2) the idiotic substituions to end game 6/7 were baffling.
3) made the same mistake vogel made in the indy series by benching Duncan. To make matters worse... he did the same thing in OT by benching Duncan again.

... there were plenty more head scratchers. One of the most composed coaches unraveled on the biggest stage.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby shoe on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:36 pm

Duncan on the bench in game 6 is understandable since they wanted to guard against the 3.

But Parker on the bench with San Antonio having possession of the ball was baffling.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby Finwë on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:40 pm

No. I do agree about some of his mistakes (sitting Timmy, not fouling when up 3 in game 6 -- BTW, I don't think Parker sat out anymore than the amount of time he deserved. He SUCKED tonight, and was killing the offense. Manu did make a couple of absolutely terrible mistakes, but at least he was scoring. parker wasn't doing anything).
But as a whole, I think Pop coached the hell out of this team. They are clearly less stacked in talent than Miami, but they were (until the game 6 collapse) the best team this series, and were a missed FT away from a title.
The system is great and their D was superb.
Difference in Gms 6 and 7 was: a) Danny Green coming down to earth. b) Ginobili sucking game 6 (with Parker being bad too), Parker sucking game 7 (with Ginobili making mistakes too), c) Miami's role players'(especially Chalmers and Battier) playing way better at home..

Pop mistakes were definitely costly at the defensive end of that Gm 6 collapse, but still, you make ONE more FT (missed 2 out of 4 in 40 or so seconds) and you're a champion. Against a more talented team.
I think he deserves the praise he got, and also deserves some of the criticism.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby wcsoldier81 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:59 pm

Pop did two major mistakes in Game 6 imo :

1) Up 10 going into the 4th , played his regular rotations , left Duncan and Parker on the bench , you want to get for the kill here ... it resulted in Miami cutting to 4 in less than 2mins

2) No Duncan on the floor while Bosh was when up 3 .

No huge mistake in Game 7, Miami was the better in this game , no big deal with sitting Parker since he sucked

I would have played bigger more minutes with Diaw as the PF in the 4th because Green was terrible and his backup Neal too
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby Snake Eyes on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:12 am

I felt that Ginobli had a pretty good game 7. He earned his time out there at the end of the game. He had a pretty bad series over all. Sitting Parker was a good call too. I mean, Parker shot a combined 25% in game 6 and 7. That's pretty bad. Back to game 7, I think the Spurs took too many three-pointers. Danny Green was horrible. He was as cold as an ice berg. Games 1-5 he was lights out. He couldn't hit anything the last two. Pop may have pulled Green too late.

The Spurs perimeter defense was pretty bad. Did you see some of the those threes that LeBron got off? I could have hit one of those with that amount of room. The Spurs couldn't execute offensively either. They shot 37% from the field tonight. Duncan had a chance at the end too.

The Spurs had too many opportunities to close this series out. It got away from them. I really think it is on the players.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:37 am

I thought that giving Lebron room to shoot was by design. Pop was too afraid of opening the lanes, so he had them back off LeBron and let him shoot. But after 3 or 4 makes, change the strategy!! LeBron's uncontested jumpers kept them in the game. A good defense doesn't choose one or the other, either daring them to shoot or close-guarding, it does both. I tHink Pop was set on this either/or strategy because it worked in 2007. But LeBron can hit open shots now, so a better evolved plan was in order. The switching he did at the end of games was too predictable. Even Spo could figure out how to put in the right small lineup to beat the switching.

I think Pop was good, but he was washed up the last couple of games. Too predictable, too dogmatic, and too short of a leash on Green and Splitter. Green made a three in game 7, and then Pop pulled him. Splitter gets beaten down low, and he gets pulled. The SA big three were spent, and you have to give a few more guys enough leash to get warmed up. splitter is slow, but he's big enough to get rebounds and post up anyone the Heat has. Dial was worthless on the boards. He's never been a rebounder.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:17 am

shoe wrote:Duncan on the bench in game 6 is understandable since they wanted to guard against the 3.

But Parker on the bench with San Antonio having possession of the ball was baffling.


Agreed. Not having your best offensive player on the floor when you needed a basket makes utterly zero sense. The only conclusion I can think of is that they needed a 3. But he should've been out there.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby OX1947 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:29 am

5 point lead with 28 seconds left. You can be the greatest coach, player, players on the planet, or not be. Either way, you can not lose a game, let alone a championship game, like that. I thought the 24 point lead give away in 2008 was bad, if I am a Spurs fan or player, this is killing me forever and thoughts would never go away. You can never undo a Finals loss. Spurs should be 5-0 in the Finals.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby thkthebest on Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:58 am

No way do I blame this on Pop. Coaches make mistakes, and they take chances. The Spurs got to where they are because of Pop. Remember that he benched Duncan in game 6 against the Warriors, and it paid off. Duncan accepted Pop's decision. That entire Spurs team puts a lot of faith in Pop, and only a great coach commands that kind of respect.

No Pop. No Finals.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby Rooscooter on Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:06 am

Missed free throws in game 6 lost this series not cross matchup decisions.

As I noted in the series thread.... it was going to be on the role players last night. SA got what it needed out of the top 3.... the rest.. not so much. Miami OTOH got big games from ghosts so far in the finals.....
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:32 am

shoe wrote:Duncan on the bench in game 6 is understandable since they wanted to guard against the 3.

But Parker on the bench with San Antonio having possession of the ball was baffling.


On the 1st possession yes but not on the 2nd when Bosh was on the floor ...
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:36 am

Rooscooter wrote:Missed free throws in game 6 lost this series not cross matchup decisions.


I think giving up offensive rebounds is in the same " details category " as missed FTs and Tos which wins or lose you a game
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby Weezy on Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:55 am

I blame him for not having Duncan in at the end of game 6 only. I blame the missed free throws more, those missed free throws cost them the game for sure. Duncan being in the game gives a higher chance of them not giving up an offensive rebound 2 possessions in a row, but it doesn't guarantee it, Heat still might have got the boards. Making those 3 free throws they missed though, that pretty much puts the game away.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby dj vitus on Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:49 am

OX1947 wrote:...if I am a Spurs fan or player, this is killing me forever and thoughts would never go away. You can never undo a Finals loss. Spurs should be 5-0 in the Finals.

I'm not even a big Spurs fan, but even I was feeling down today. Everyone around me kept asking me what was wrong. :man10: I can't imagine if this was the Lakers losing such a close Game 7.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby dj vitus on Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:52 am

And yes, sitting Duncan was terrible. Duncan is more than capable of switching on the 3 with his length, and also getting the rebound is just as important (remember Lakers/Suns in '06?) But I guess it's worked for him in the past, so oh well.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:02 pm

He did a terrible job coaching down the stretch and deserves just as much blame as the players on the floor.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby LakerFan1235 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:06 pm

Did Pop make mistakes? Absolutely. But they still were literally 2 missed FTs away from winning game 6.
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Every time I begin to wonder...He proves it...That is why I won't lose hope in him.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:07 pm

LakerFan1235 wrote:Did Pop make mistakes? Absolutely. But they still were literally 2 missed FTs away from winning game 6.

They were also a rebound away from winning game 6 and he left Tim on the bench. That's coaching.

He deserves every bit as much blame as anyone not named Manu Ginobili.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby XXIV on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:10 pm

^ He made the mistake of taking Tim out of the game twice. The first time when the Heat got the offensive board and Lebron made the three to cut it to two and then the Ray Allen sequence where they tied it. Missed free throws happen and with the game on the line I can understand a player missing one, but just needing to secure ONE of those two boards should have been easy enough to do.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:21 pm

I understand his strategy was to switch all screens, but it didn't make sense.

All series long he dared Wade and LeBron and Bosh to jumpshoot their way to a Championship. It worked for the most part. So on this last crucial possession (or two) you take the opposite approach? You take our your Top 5 Big Man of All-Time and easily your best rebounder? So for this last shot you expect them to either make it or... what, exactly?

Once I saw Bosh in there, I'd have Tim in for sure. They're looking for a three anyway, might as well have someone big out there who can keep up with Bosh as far as making him take a contested jumper. And then you still have him in there to rebound on this crucial possession.

Not to mention frequently having Parker out late in games so that you can lean on... Ginobili.

Ginobili, outside of Game 5, was hot garbage. Besides that game he ranged from "okay" to "potentially lost the series single handed". I understand the need to rely on a guy like him who has come through for you for years, but if that's true then why the f*** are you sitting Parker and Duncan late in games? Ginobili shouldn't have been playing anywhere near as much as he was.

When the games got tough, Pop made some really bad decisions. Besides Manu he deserves just as much blame as anyone else in San Antonio.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby LakerFan1235 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:25 pm

yeah no denying manu **** the bed, but my point was that Pop's coaching got them to the point where they were free throws and Miami miracle 3s away from winning it all. But man, thank god I am not a spurs fan. I am incredibly upset with how the series turned out, can't imagine what a hardcore spurs fan must feel like.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:31 pm

I agree. And I'm not saying Pop deserves all the blame or anything, but he certainly deserves his portion of it.

I honestly can't imagine how they feel right now. This might have been the last run for this group of Spurs.
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby Congo Cash on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:41 pm

I think it's the players... Manu sucked and Green was horrible (1-7, 1-12 FG) during the last 2 games...
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Re: Coach Pop

Postby OX1947 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:02 pm

dj vitus wrote:
OX1947 wrote:...if I am a Spurs fan or player, this is killing me forever and thoughts would never go away. You can never undo a Finals loss. Spurs should be 5-0 in the Finals.

I'm not even a big Spurs fan, but even I was feeling down today. Everyone around me kept asking me what was wrong. :man10: I can't imagine if this was the Lakers losing such a close Game 7.


I think naturally as a fan, you automatically put yourself in other fans shoes after games. Surprisingly I have felt bad for the last half day everytime I think about how Duncan and Spurs fans think. In their case, it's not just a loss in the Finals, its a blemish forever that should not have been. 28 secs, skilled vet teams do not give up 5 point leads. Missed FT's happen, turnovers happen, missed shots happen, but 28 seconds left with 5 point leads in championship game, man, that is a burner.
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