Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby Kobe8Fan on Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:43 am

Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo Had Strained Relationship

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By: Jerry Spar

Sports Illustrated writer Chris Mannix joined the Dennis & Callahan show Monday morning and talked about what the future might hold for the Celtics following their Game 7 loss to the Heat in the Eastern Conference finals.

Mannix said he's heard from people close to Kevin Garnett that the forward is leaning toward retirement, but if Garnett returns to the NBA it's likely to be with the Celtics.

"I think if Kevin Garnett wants to keep playing basketball, he will stay in Boston," Mannix said. "I think he's a loyal guy -- remember, he didn't really want to get traded out of Minnesota in the first place. He doesn't like to be a guy who's a mercenary, who wants to bounce around to different organizations and just chase rings like some other players in his age bracket. I think he wants to stay with one organization."

As for Ray Allen, his departure seems likely, with New York, Miami and Chicago leading the way as possible landing spots.

"There is going to be a ton of interest in Ray Allen in the offseason," Mannix said. "He's going to be able to pick and choose where he wants to play."

Allen conceivably could return to Boston, but Mannix said that decision might be affected by Allen's apparent struggles to get along with Rajon Rondo.

"I think there's no question that the relationship was strained over this year," Mannix said. "How strained is the key, and it's still a little bit unclear. There was some friction between those two. I think that could play a role in Ray's decision not to come back. Now, I agree, I think that Boston probably wasn't going to bring him back anyway, you're right, it's Avery Bradley's job and Ray isn't coming back to the Celtics to be a bench player, especially when he can be a bench player on a team that might be more likely to win a championship. But I think the relationship over the last year between Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo soured. Now, I'm not entirely clear as to how bad it got. But certainly I know that there was some legitimate, palpable friction between those two players and I think that will ultimately affect his decision in free agency."

Looking at the NBA finals, Mannix predicts LeBron James and the Heat will have a tough time with the Thunder.

"I thought that the Boston-Miami series was the JV game, it was like the bronze medal to me, because I think Oklahoma City is just on a different level right now," Mannix said. "Miami has great talent at the top, but Oklahoma City is talented all throughout. Your old buddy Kendrick Perkins has made them a defensive force. I'm putting the over/under at maybe 16 minutes before Perkins flagrant fouls LeBron in that Game 1. I think he's going to have a physical impact. … The difference-maker in this series is Russell Westbrook. Russell Westbrook has the potential to just go off and have an absolutely monster series. He's a much better player than Mario Chalmers, and I think he is going to have a major, major impact in this series, and Oklahoma City wins it in six games.

"And you know, if they do, I hate to sound hyperbolic, but this could be the start of something big for Oklahoma City. We talk about Miami and their potential to win multiple championships. This Oklahoma City team is made up of a bunch of NBA toddlers. They're going to be around for years to come. The majority of these guys are tied into longterm contracts. If they win this year, they could be the next Jordan-esque Bulls team for the next five, six years."

Mannix also covers boxing for SI, and he offered his take on Manny Pacquiao's controversial loss Saturday to Timothy Bradley for the world welterweight title.

"When I saw that decision -- I was ringside, I scored the fight for Pacquiao -- bad decisions are sort of epidemic in boxing," Mannix said. "And I've seen it far too many times. … I honestly think it's less corrupt as it is just downright incompetence from some of the judges in boxing."

Added Mannix: "I had it reasonably close, I had it 115-113 [for Pacquiao], but that was as close as you could get. Bradley, one of the things he won, at least in the punch stats, was he threw more punches. If you're in the state of Nevada, one little inside boxing thing is that Nevada favors aggression in their fighters. Their judges tend to favor fighters who throw a lot of punches. So, I thought that Bradley got the benefit of the doubt from me and I think from the judges in that sense. … But look, no chance he won that fight. No chance whatsoever he deserved that decision."


http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this- ... tion-rondo
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Re: Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo Had Strained Relationship

Postby XXIV on Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:04 am

Rondo seemed to have issues with a few players this season. Perhaps it'll make management more inclined in seeking to trade him?
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Re: Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo Had Strained Relationship

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:29 pm

Rondo is a bit of an enigma. When motivated he's probably the most effective point guard in the league and has the best "both ends" game as well. He seems to rub some the wrong way and is a little like Bynum in being aloof at times.

If they don't want him I'd take him in a heart beat on the Lakers.... I can put up with some aloofness and being a Diva if he performs the way he does in the playoffs....
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Re: Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo Had Strained Relationship

Postby Frank Dux on Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:53 pm

^No doubt. He's anti social, weird, and doesn't get along with others, but doesn't that sound a bit like the current superstar we have? What you can't say about Rondo is that he doesn't show up to play. He's a big game player, and I would love to have him here.
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Re: Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo Had Strained Relationship

Postby OCLakersFan247 on Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:53 pm

^^McRoberts isnt a superstar :man12:
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Re: Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo Had Strained Relationship

Postby KB24 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:06 am

Rondo isn't particularly known to be a glue guy...just saying.
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Re: Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo Had Strained Relationship

Postby Thenextgreat on Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:58 am

It's probably an age difference thing...the big 3 are all in their mid thirties and Rondo is a young dude..i could see how they can cause some problems...
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby Kobe8Fan on Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:49 am

Doc Rivers Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving Celtics From Rajon Rondo

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By Adrian Wojnarowski
Yahoo! Expert

LONDON – After Boston Celtics coach Doc Rivers re-examined everything that set into motion Ray Allen leaving for the Miami Heat in free agency, he's assigned blame to an unmistakable target: himself.

In his first lengthy and candid interview on the circumstances since Allen spurned a two-year, $12 million offer to sign with the Heat in July, Rivers told Yahoo! Sports that his decisions to relegate Allen to a sixth-man role and give point guard Rajon Rondo complete freedom with the ball and leadership were ultimately what helped lead Allen to leave Boston.

Allen, a future Hall of Fame guard, left the Celtics full of acrimony and disillusionment, ending a spectacular five-year run with Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce as Boston's Big Three. Allen signed a two-year, $6 million deal with the Heat.

"People can use all the Rondo stuff – and it was there, no doubt about that – but it was me more than Rondo," said Rivers, who is working as an NBC analyst during the Olympics. "I'm the guy who gave Rondo the ball. I'm the guy who decided that Rondo needed to be more of the leader of the team. That doesn't mean guys liked that – and Ray did not love that – because Rondo now had the ball all the time.

"Think about everything [Allen] said when he left, 'I want to be more of a part of the offense.' Everything was back at Rondo. And I look at that, and say, 'That's not Rondo's fault.' That's what I wanted Rondo to do, and that's what Rondo should've done. Because that's Rondo's ability. He's the best passer in the league. He has the best feel in the league. He's not a great shooter, so he needs the ball in his hands to be effective. And that bothered Ray.

"And not starting [games] bothered Ray. I did examine it, and the conclusion I came back to was this: By doing the right things, we may have lost Ray. If I hadn't done that, I would've been a hypocrite. In the opening speech I make every year, I tell the team: 'Every decision I make is going to be what's good for the team, and it may not be what's good for the individual.'"

Rivers said he had mediated issues between Allen and Rondo for most of the five years that they played together, but that it became a dramatically worse issue in the 2010-11 season. Beyond the issues on the floor, Allen and Rondo had developed a deep disdain for each other, multiple sources told Yahoo! Sports. Allen had problems with how he was compensated and that his name was constantly included in trade talks, sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Ultimately, Allen struggled with Rivers's decision to make him a sixth man after he returned from an ankle injury. Rivers said he determined in the preseason that Boston's best chance to be a great team would be to bring Allen's scoring off the bench, but he couldn't do that until young guard Avery Bradley was prepared to move into the starting lineup.

After the Celtics were eliminated from the Eastern Conference Finals in seven games, Rivers says Allen – who had always returned his text messages and calls immediately – became more sporadic and infrequent in his responses. "I thought, 'Uh-oh, we're in trouble,'" Rivers said. "And I just knew that Ray feeling like he had lost his voice in the locker room was a big obstacle, too."

Now, Rivers wonders this: Does Allen have a bigger or better role with the Heat?

"Ray's got to do what's best for Ray," Rivers said, "but having said that, he's not going to start in Miami. And I doubt he gets the ball more. But I do think, for a guy like Ray and Paul and Kevin and Kobe [Bryant], it's easier to go somewhere and do that than have it taken from you where you're at.

"As a coach, you've got to do what's best for the team. If guys don't like it, they're going to leave. If they stay and don't like it, well, your team's going to suck anyway. Even if this happens, you still have to do it. You can't coach worrying about any individual. You've got to coach worrying about your entire team: whether that gets you a championship or whether that gets you fired.

"I think it allows you to coach free. You're coaching with freedom because you know you're doing what you think is right. I always tell my guys: If I'm wrong, hopefully I'm smart enough, or my staff, or one of you guys – because I do listen to you – will tell me that I'm wrong. But not one player ever told me, 'Hey, I don't think you should start Avery.'"

Whatever issues the public had with Allen leaving for a rival, Rivers says those never entered into his frustration. "I was pissed at him," Rivers said. "I was pissed at him for his reasons for leaving. But what people don't get: I wasn't pissed at him for leaving for Miami. I could care less he went there. And that's a fact. With the fans, I know it was: How could he go to Miami? But once he decided he didn't want to stay with us, he has the right to wherever he wants."

Rivers has come to realize that Allen's leaving was inevitable and his return would've only exacerbated the issues and made for an untenable situation in Boston. Shooting guards Jason Terry and Courtney Lee were signed in free agency, and they'll replace Allen.

"For a week or two, I was really disappointed, pissed, because I thought it was for all the wrong reasons," Rivers said. "It was more about himself, his team. And then I realized: Well, it should be about himself. It was free agency. I wasn't thinking right.

"If Ray came back, it had to be because he was thinking, 'We're going to work this [stuff] out, and we're going to win.' And if he didn't come back, it was because he thought he couldn't work it out here. What they're asking him to do in Miami, he just couldn't do in Boston.

"But here's what wasn't going to change: The ball's not going to be in Ray's hands more, the ball's going to be in Rondo's hands. That's not going to change. Now that you've voiced you should have the ball more, or you want to start, or you want more freedom in the offense, that's not going to go away. It's going to be the same stuff. If he comes back, it's going to be because he's figured it out. If he leaves, it's going to be because he didn't get over it. Whatever he decided, his decision was right."


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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:24 am

Terry at this point is a better player than Allen. Then you add in the addition of Lee and they've vastly upgraded their roster. Boston is my pick to win the East.
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby Lakeshow24 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:57 am

I agree that they upgraded with Jason Terry. He's more versatile and can create his own shots better than Ray can at this point of their careers. I also believe that Doc Rivers has the right philosophy and knows his players very well. His assessments of Rondo are spot on and allowing Rondo to have the ball more often during the games will certainly improve the team's overall play.
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby FabFourLakers on Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:59 am

Agreed. The Celtics bolstered their back court with Courtney Lee and Jason Terry....youth plus experience at the 2 spot. Good riddance to Ray Allen. He won't start in Miami, and I doubt he gets more shots too. I think were gonna see Boston vs Miami in the ECF again, esp with the Bulls not having Rose, and I don't see any of the other eastern conference teams jumping ahead of Boston (MAYBE indiana).
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby Thenextgreat on Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:44 pm

Allen is baby..and I can't stand when Doc Rivers speaks...
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby jimbo327 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:06 pm

Ray did the right thing. Celtics window has shut already. He wants to chase the ring with the new top dog. Nothing new.
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:52 pm

jimbo327 wrote:Ray did the right thing. Celtics window has shut already. He wants to chase the ring with the new top dog. Nothing new.

Why do people keep saying this? Did y'all ever forget they nearly beat Miami last year?
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby The Original 81 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:12 pm

KeepBynum wrote:
jimbo327 wrote:Ray did the right thing. Celtics window has shut already. He wants to chase the ring with the new top dog. Nothing new.

Why do people keep saying this? Did y'all ever forget they nearly beat Miami last year?


A Miami team without Chris Bosh.
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:13 pm

The Original 81 wrote:
KeepBynum wrote:
jimbo327 wrote:Ray did the right thing. Celtics window has shut already. He wants to chase the ring with the new top dog. Nothing new.

Why do people keep saying this? Did y'all ever forget they nearly beat Miami last year?


A Miami team without Chris Bosh.

The Celtics played without Avery Bradley and Pierce was playing on one leg.
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby The Original 81 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:19 pm

KeepBynum wrote:
The Original 81 wrote:
KeepBynum wrote:
jimbo327 wrote:Ray did the right thing. Celtics window has shut already. He wants to chase the ring with the new top dog. Nothing new.

Why do people keep saying this? Did y'all ever forget they nearly beat Miami last year?


A Miami team without Chris Bosh.

The Celtics played without Avery Bradley and Pierce was playing on one leg.


C'mon man, Avery Bradley doesn't have nearly the impact for the C's that Bosh does for the Heat. And you're way overstating Pierce's injury. :man10:
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:28 pm

^ I never said he said he did, but he was a big loss for the C's.
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby The Original 81 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:33 pm

KeepBynum wrote:^ I never said he said he did, but he was a big loss for the C's.


It was a loss no doubt, but the guy that torched them was LeBron, not Wade who Bradley would have checked.
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby jimbo327 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:42 pm

Window is closed. They can't beat Miami with what they have. They don't have anything in the middle. Lebron will just drive in, and game over. Wade was playing on 1 leg, Pierce is pretending to be playing on 1 leg, he was fine. Bosh was out.
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby Frank Dux on Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:16 am

jimbo327 wrote:Window is closed. They can't beat Miami with what they have. They don't have anything in the middle. Lebron will just drive in, and game over. Wade was playing on 1 leg, Pierce is pretending to be playing on 1 leg, he was fine. Bosh was out.



No. They were one game away from the NBA finals with a pathetic bench. Yes Bosh was injured, but what about injuries to Wilcox, Bradley, Green, and Ray Allen's bad ankles?


As much as I hate to say it, the Celtics had quite possibly the best off season of all the NBA teams. Good draft, adressed needs in F/A, got younger, and much deeper.

Don't be surprised to them in the finals next season.
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby therealdeal on Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:06 am

jimbo327 wrote:Window is closed.

I definitely disagree. They retooled and now have a VERY deep team.

Rondo/Bradley/Dooling
Lee/Terry
Pierce/Joseph
Bass/Sulinger/Wilcox
Garnett/Melo/Collins

If they re-sign Pietrus, that's a team that is 2 deep at every position. They've got a GREAT squad. No, they don't have an answer for LeBron, but no one really does. He's the best player on the planet. Miami doesn't really have an answer for Rondo and Bradley either.
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby jamabile on Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:00 pm

Window closing? They'll be playing Miami again next year and possibly this time coming out of the east. They're loaded.
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby jimbo327 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:21 pm

Well, we shall see. I definitely like Terry. But to me, Celtics = KG, and he's not getting any younger. And I feel that the window is closed. I just call it like I see it. If Kobe get a bit older, the Lakers window is also closing unless we bring in another superstar.
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Re: Doc Takes Blame For Ray Allen Leaving C's From Rajon Rondo

Postby jamabile on Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:42 pm

^I can understand where you're getting at; however, the Celtics added two big men in the draft this year and they resigned Bass. With the added depth at the 4&5 positions, Doc will have an opportunity to manage KG's minutes next year much more then he had this year. KG played great last year in the playoffs. He was as good as I've seen him in awhile, but he was ran ragged because the Celtics didn't have enough depth. Problem solved barring any injuries.

As far as KG=Celtics. You have a point; he is their identity defensively. Nevertheless on offense, it's Rondo. He makes KG and other Celtic players job much easier. That's why Doc has the ball in his hands at all times because their measure of success goes up when Rondo is the decision maker. Rondo is a top 2-3 PG, IMO. As long as he stays on course, the Celtics have a good as chance as any to get to the Finals, but it won't be easy with a great Miami team...
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