Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:19 pm

I watched the last game and this one right now vs the Clippers and the contrast is pretty evident. Maybe they just need to warm back up with having him back in the lineup, what do you think?
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby laakers on Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:45 pm

Maybe so, he did chuck up a terrible 3 with about 30 seconds left when they were down 4 to the Clips just now, pretty terrible shot. Hubie said regardless of how they're playing now, "they won't win a championship without him in the lineup." I would probably agree with that, but honestly at this point, I think Jackson has developed into a great player and if they don't win it all this year, Westbrook might be better off as a trade asset.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:13 pm

Westbrook is a great stat guy but he's also a first class idiot when it comes to the mental aspects of the game. He's still wrapped in the idea that he's the best player on that team.......which he's not.

Not unlike the Clippers and Paul.... The played much more efficient and were much more involved as a team in the games without Paul. He's another stat guy that is vastly overrated. The Clips have a higher win percent without him than with him. There was enough games that it isn't a fluke either. OKC played much more loose without Westbrook and his Poindexter fashion.....
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:53 pm

Yes.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby John3:16 on Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:40 pm

IMO, Westbrook doesn't know his place. He truly believes he's the best offensive weapon on the team. He's a great offensive weapon, but he's not KD. OKC would be better served trading Westbrook before the deadline. Westbrook / Ibaka for Nash / Gasol would've been nice. :man12:
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby Weezy on Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:51 pm

For a couple games I would say yes it has, I mean he was outplayed by Fisher today on both sides of the ball (Fisher is still a physical beast by the way, Blake Griffin couldn't even back him down on one play, Fisher barely budged). It's hard for me to say that they are better without him in the long run though, going off their playoff results in 2012 getting to the Finals with him, and last season having an early exit without him. It's kind of a tough situation, he's super talented, but there's things about his game that don't compliment Durant's game, and he does make some stupid decisions.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby XXIV on Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:11 pm

Do they always play Westbrook and KD together? If so that may be the problem.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby revgen on Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:18 pm

Westbrook brings an aggressive attitude to the team. Which is important during the playoffs. It's easier to coach a player down than try to coach up. That being said, I don't think Scott Brooks is the kind of personality who can coach guys like Westbrook effectively. He needs a Doc Rivers, Tom Thibodeau, Phil Jackson etc... IMO that's part of the reason why OKC hired Fisher in the first place.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:55 pm

revgen wrote:Westbrook brings an aggressive attitude to the team. Which is important during the playoffs. It's easier to coach a player down than try to coach up. That being said, I don't think Scott Brooks is the kind of personality who can coach guys like Westbrook effectively. He needs a Doc Rivers, Tom Thibodeau, Phil Jackson etc... IMO that's part of the reason why OKC hired Fisher in the first place.


I agree that he brings that aggressive attitude which is great but he does not know his place. He reminds me of WIlliam Parker (a much, much, much, much, way better like not in the same breath or house William parker) in his attitude on the game. Parker was talented and could get going but he started believing his street legend hype and thinking he was as important as Kobe. (that is as far as the comparison is going lol) Westbrook is the same way with KD. The big difference is that KD will not put Westbrook in his place. I remember in the playoffs when they still had Harden where KD didn't touch the ball for like half the 4th quarter cause Westbrook and Harden were chocking everything up like a brand new glory hole visitor. In the end that is why I think OKC can not win with him as the running mate to KD. No one will put him in his place he isn't the 1A and 1B like Kobe and Shaq were. He is the 2 to KD's 1. If he doesnt learn that they will fail in my opinion.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby Forward Three on Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:13 pm

Maybe a bit, I think there's no real reason they shouldn't be able to make it work though but it has to fall on Russ's shoulders. Similar to how Wade had to swallow some pride and acknowledge that Lebron is a better basketball player than he is. Westbrook I think has to acknowledge that Durant is the motor of their team and they should be able to make it work. For as much as I would have preferred the Heat not winning any championships on principle, you can't deny that it was their composure that won it in 2011 against OKC where OKC, despite having ample opportunities to seal a game and arguably the series, was unable to in large part due to being the less polished team. Westbrook bears a lot of that, imo and there were several instances when his arrogance/hotheadedness disadvantaged the Thunder in that series, but at the time I don't think Durant was strong enough either to really step into the "welp, here's 50 points and the W" mindset either.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:25 am

I think so. The evidence seems to point that way.

I think the team still gets a net gain from him, but definitely Durant has shown that he can't be the best he can be if Russell is on the team with him. I don't know if he's mean enough to ever admit that, but it's true. If they traded Russell for a legit big man and a decent PG, Durant would be better off. I don't know if the team as a whole would be as successful, but Durant would be better off.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby lakerfan2 on Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:37 am

If I were OKC, I would try to package Westbrook and Perkins to some team for a big who can get high percentage shots.

Not that KD isn't a prolific scorer, but sometimes the game needs to slow down and get an easy bucket rather than hoist up a jumpshot or watch Westbrook try to force something in the paint.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:45 am

I have never liked Westbrook's game. He is way too reckless and does as many bad things for your team as good things sometimes. Sure, when his outside jumper is clicking, he is unstoppable at times but he's inconsistent. Even if I had the chance to sign him to a max deal, I wouldn't do it. He reminds me of a poor man's version of Carmelo in that he's just way too focused on getting his at the expense of the offense.

When his athleticism declines, he'll be worthless as his entire game is based on his athleticism. If he learns to play the right way, he can still be very special but that's a big if. Also, I don't know if OKC does what MIA does in that they always have one of their duo superstars on the court at all times. If they don't, that's obviously a huge mistake. But Westbrook just doesn't play the game the right way.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby abeer3 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:53 am

big westbrook fan; mostly because i think he's unfairly vilified by fans and media alike, so someone needs to be in his corner. okc got their butts blasted without him in the playoffs (vs. going to the finals with him). i don't care about efficiency stats and e-wins and the like, healthy westbrook is a force of nature that most teams can't match up with.

they could probably survive the regular season with reggie jackson as the day-in, day-out guy, but in the playoffs, against top competition, you need guys who are matchup nightmares, and you generally need more than one.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby lakerfan2 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:55 am

no one is questioning westbrook's talent, but when it comes down to playing 1b option next to durant, it's not working.

durant is THE number one option. too many times, Westbrook takes some low percentage shots or forces a lot of things. his decision making isn't really that good. what durant needs is an option that he can go to when he can't get a look, and that option has the ability to get a high percentage shot.

would i take westbrook? of course. but, these two need to be on separate teams.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:03 am

Westbrooks talents are all physical…. and that translates to stats and flash…. where he lacks massively is maturity, humility and team philosophy. He's still in the (and maybe forever in) "hey look at me …. i'm better than him mode" part of his career. He's been in the league long enough to have evolved but hasn't.

His lack of "feel" for the game is especially evident in pressure situations like the playoffs. His collar gets pretty tight and his ability to take what the defense is giving is a glaring deficiency in his game that has bit OKC numerous times.

He thinks he's Kobe while not understanding what it takes to be Kobe….. He's got the physical talent but only 10% of the grey matter….
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby Weezy on Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:41 pm

I think the issue with saying they need to figure out how to co-exist like Kobe and Shaq or LeBron and Wade, is that Westbrook is a "PG", so he has the ball a lot. Shaq and Kobe had Phil and the triangle to get that ball moving around, and smart players like Harper, Fisher, and Shaw at the point to feed them both. LeBron and Wade, LeBron is a point guard for them a lot, and he's known for his passing and all around game. LeBron doesn't have to change his game for Wade, and Wade benefits in a lot of ways from LeBron's game, plus they have Boah who is undervalued, so it works. I don't know that a duo of a PG and SG like Westbrook and Durant(I consider him a SG, but ok maybe a SF) as the best players on the team is the best way to win titles, at least not historically. It's usually a small and a big, or maybe a SG/SF like Jordan and Pippen.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby John3:16 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:54 pm

IMO, OKC should've traded Westbrook and kept Harden. Harden is a better passer, better outside shooter and seemed to gel with KD more. The bad thing is, Westbrook showed up in the Finals vs Miami, whereas Harden was missing in action.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:05 pm

John3:16 wrote:IMO, OKC should've traded Westbrook and kept Harden. Harden is a better passer, better outside shooter and seemed to gel with KD more. The bad thing is, Westbrook showed up in the Finals vs Miami, whereas Harden was missing in action.


yeah.... maybe.... but that is about the only time Westbrook ever showed up in the playoffs. The previous 2 years he basically single handedly took OKC out of the playoffs.

I think they should have kept Harden as well over Westbrook.


The reason people like Westbrook so much is his raw athleticism and how he can score in bunches.... that comes sandwiched around some of the biggest bone headed basketball played at this level.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:30 am

The problem is more about Brooks ( then KD) than Westbrook ... Russell can take bad shots early in the clock/sleep off the ball defensively and nobody will tell him to stop/play smarter ... so he keeps playing the same way ...

OKC definetely needs him in the playoffs but in the meantime he can hurt the team pretty bad in long stretches ..

It would be interesting to see if he could mature playing for a superior coach .

The fact Westbrook is an undersized SG asked to play PG shouldn't be overlooked too . Just imagine Kobe/Wade playing full time at the point ...

Imo he's the most interesting player to talk about when it comes to positives/negatives a player brings to his team.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby thkthebest on Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:49 am

I'm reserving judgement on Westbrook for now because of his injuries and the lack of sample size. He is clearly not playing as well as he used to.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:07 pm

Yikes! They lost to Cavs of all teams. I truly think Russell throws off their chemistry. Like to be honest with you, yes he's a big shot maker and hit some key shots during their run last season, but the Thunder went on a streak before he came back. Russell Westbrook is a great player but I don't really think he compliments KD, especially as Kevin Durant's game continues to find it's own identity. I don't think KD needs a Robin to his Batman. Russell is a good player on his own terms but he doesn't compliment KD. Maybe someone esle but not KD.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby abeer3 on Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:12 am

John3:16 wrote:IMO, OKC should've traded Westbrook and kept Harden. Harden is a better passer, better outside shooter and seemed to gel with KD more. The bad thing is, Westbrook showed up in the Finals vs Miami, whereas Harden was missing in action.


I think that's easy to say after westbrook hurts his knee twice. he's a much better player than harden. okc knew that better than anyone after watching them in practice every day for three years. I don't think harden's a better passer (or a more willing one), and I don't think he could have been a full time fit with Durant because he eats a ton of possessions, too. at least westbrook can and will defend.

also, they were coming off a year in which harden crapped the bed in the finals, and really, harden wasn't very impressive against okc last year, either. take out his one hot shooting game, and...ick.

so, unless westbrook doesn't recover, that decision (assuming they HAD to make it, which is another discussion) was sound. it was even more sound before westbrook tore his acl.
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby Congo Cash on Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:22 am

Harden is a bigger ballhog than Westbrook and his defense is trash... Just replace Kendrick Perkins and they are fine...
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Re: Does Russell Westbrook throw off OKC's chemistry?

Postby OX1947 on Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:33 pm

Harden choked it up in the 2012 Finals. He isnt hard to neutralize when it matters. Saw it plenty of times last year when the Lakers were playing him.

I hope Silver really keep doing what he is doing, hopefully he can get rid of flopping and bring the game back to where it belongs. Game of men, not douche bags.
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